Duo Destruction XY

[Goldland]

TBH I honestly don't know why you needed to ask this, rather than just to prove a point to the other guy.

There would be no point to this project or counters at all if we took every bit of hax into account.

For the sake of this project we will not be taking hax into account. The point of this project is that we're trying to find a mon/core that will beat the core I proposed consistently under normal circumstances (meaning no hax), because there really isn't a way to control it.

ONCE AGAIN JUST SO EVERYONE GETS THE PICTURE, WE WILL NOT BE TAKING HAX INTO ACCOUNT.

But what exactly is hax? If you miss a will-o-wisp is that hax? 15% chance?
If a game goes for like 10 turns, has a about 50% chance of having a crit, is a crit hax after 10 turns?
The little the chance it is, if you multiply several chances given by multiple effects, you'll eventually be sure that "hax" is going to happen nonetheless. As well as claiming that a character is viable even if there is less than 75% chace he'll win against those comps, with or without hax, just pure statistics, confirm that. 30% chance of failling is considered pretty high in my opinion.

 

[blarajan]

Stunky @ Eviolite
Ability: Aftermath
Level: 5
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 28 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Play Rough
- Toxic

beats the shit out of abra, outruns and beats mienfoo eventually even when knock offed

i don't want to post calcs i'm pretty sure this works

 

[Goldland]

reserving stunky!

stunky seems a good bet on paper, but on a pratical situation he won't be able to tank mienfoo forever, and this core can simply abuse regenerator against stunky. I tried to do calcs yesterday as it was going to be the pokemon i would choose, but ended up giving up after analysing the possibilities.

 

[kingmidas]

stunky seems a good bet on paper, but on a pratical situation he won't be able to tank mienfoo forever, and this core can simply abuse regenerator against stunky. I tried to do calcs yesterday as it was going to be the pokemon i would choose, but ended up giving up after analysing the possibilities.

Restalk stunky imo
Also are we still doing account for sr and a layer of spikes, even sr is enough to get rid of some mons

 

[fitzy72]

Mantyke (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 236 HP / 76 Def / 196 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Amnesia
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Switch in on either then Amnesia straight away and win. Abra fails to kill you before you can rest up at +2 and Mienfoo can only 4hko you with knock off so you can switch in the amnesia and win.

 

[Goldland]

Didn't account for Life orb at first, but well, it's still a check, besides being a little bit shakky, but i'll post anyway

Archen @ Berry Juice
Ability: Defeatist
Level: 5
EVs: 20 Atk / 156 Def / 236 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Roost
- U-turn

Edit: Just because of Life Orb, this set is basically unviable :/

 

[OP]

Archen @ Berry Juice
Ability: Defeatist
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 20 Atk / 156 Def / 76 SpD / 36 Spe
Impish Nature
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Roost
- U-turn

236 SpA Abra Psychic vs. 156 HP / 76 SpD Archen: 16-21 (66.6 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
20 Atk Archen U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Abra: 22-28 (115.7 - 147.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 Atk Mienfoo Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 236 HP / 156+ Def Archen: 8-10 (32 - 40%) -- 96.9% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk Mienfoo Knock Off vs. 236 HP / 156+ Def Archen: 5-7 (20 - 28%) -- 18.9% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Mienfoo Drain Punch vs. 236 HP / 156+ Def Archen: 9-12 (36 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Mienfoo Fake Out vs. 236 HP / 156+ Def Archen: 2-2 (8 - 8%) -- possibly the worst move ever
0 Atk Mienfoo Drain Punch vs. 236 HP / 156+ Def Archen: 18-24 (72 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO <-- during roost

Basically, worst case scenario is switching on a knock off from mienfoo and take 8-9 damage, roost and take 18-20 damage from drain punch to proc berry juice. After berry juice, you just acrobatics on mienfoo and if he switches to abra, you just kill abra with u-turn and then take mienfoo fake-out and finally kill mienfoo.
If it starts by switching on Abra, it gets easier, berry juice is consumed instantly and you just sweep abra and mienfoo.

236 SpA Life Orb Abra Psychic vs. 156 HP / 76 SpD Archen: 21-27 (87.5 - 112.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

You did your calc without a lifeorb.

 

[apt-get]

Didn't account for Life orb at first, but well, it's still a check, besides being a little bit shakky, but i'll post anyway

Archen @ Berry Juice
Ability: Defeatist
Level: 5
EVs: 20 Atk / 156 Def / 236 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Roost
- U-turn

Edit: Just because of Life Orb, this set is basically unviable :/

1. SR eliminates this set
2. Abra can HP fighting on the switch and then KO you with psychic

 

[GlassGlaceon]

A bit of a harder core this week caused a barren response period, but after these points and rates I'll present a core that is hopefully much easier and much more fun to play around!

Champion Fizz's Larvesta

Disproven in the thread as it is unable to switch in. 0 points

Obvious power's Misdreavus

Wins against the core and hex+will-o missy is a p cool set. 2 points

blarajan's Stunky

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lc-141454268 yeah this doesn't win if switched into knock off. 0 points

Corporal Levi's Vullaby

Good set, solid reasoning, counters the core well. 2 points

queenlucy's Shellos

nice semi-standard set able to win with replay proof. 2 points

Alphose_Eric's Spritzee

beats the core, good reasoning, good set. 2 points

fitzy72's Mantyke

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lc-142146180 um this is extremely luck-reliant and won't work a majority of the time. 0 points

Goldland's Archen

Apt has shown why this set doesn't work. 0 points

Bonus points:
Keep Calm and Setup (Used Calm Mind in their sets) - Alphose_Eric, Champion Fizz (+1)

This week's core is...:

Foongus @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 124 HP / 160 Def / 160 SpD
Bold Nature
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb

Tirtouga @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 5
EVs: 52 Atk / 12 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Rash Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Shell Smash
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Jet

Edit: YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SWITCH IN ON SPORE

 

[Corporal Levi]

foongus is the best pokemon ever

Foongus @ Eviolite
Ability: Effect Spore
Level: 5
EVs: 204 HP / 236 Def
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis

0 SpA Foongus Sludge Bomb vs. 204 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Foongus: 7-9 (26.9 - 34.6%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
(7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 9)
+2 52 Atk Tirtouga Stone Edge vs. 204 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Foongus: 15-18 (57.6 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 18)
52 Atk Tirtouga Stone Edge vs. 204 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Foongus: 7-10 (26.9 - 38.4%) -- 84.5% chance to 3HKO
(7, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 10)
0 SpA Foongus Clear Smog vs. -1 0 HP / 0- SpD Tirtouga: 6-7 (28.5 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
(6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7)

If foongus switches in on tirtouga using
a) shell smash
Foongus takes one Stone Edge, Clear Smogs to get rid of the +2 Attack, survives another Stone Edge with 1 HP, and Giga Drains to heal back its HP, reaching 9, allowing it to take one Sludge Bomb from the incoming Foongus and Synthesis. From there, it can alternate between Sludge Bomb and Synthesis to win.
b) stone edge
It can spam synthesis until stone edge misses, unless Tirtouga shell smashes, in which case see scenario a). If tirtouga uses anything else, foongus can then simply clear smog and then giga drain, winning regardless.

If foongus
c) switches in on the opposing foongus, it will be able to win because it has both synthesis and sludge bomb. Once tirtouga comes in, it can use clear smog to make sure tirt doesn't boost up, and then giga drain for the KO.

Max rolls will be bothersome for stone edge but it has a bigger chance to either miss or min roll so I think this still works

 

[Max Carvalho]

Reserving Scraggy.

 

[Rowan]

FERROSEED IS MINE LEMME POST

NEVERMIND IT'S WEAK AS FUCK AND DOES FUCK ALL TO FOONGUS

 

[apt-get]

reserving ferro

 

[tcr]

RESERVING CROAGUNKK

 

[sparktrain]

nvm. fuck multiple smashes lileep loses lol

 

[fitzy72]

Reserving Pumpkaboo

Edit:

Pumpkaboo-L (M) @ Eviolite
Level: 5
Trait: Pickup
EVs: 244 HP / 200 Def / 64 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Bullet Seed
- Will-O-Wisp

Tirtouga easy to kill if you can get 3 hits which is reasonable if you account that it needs 2 stone edge hits at +2 as well as only a 2 hit bullet seed.

0 SpA Foongus Sludge Bomb vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Pumpkaboo-Large: 7-9 (28 - 36%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO
(7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 9)

I'd be happy resting up on that 1.1% chance to 3hko.

 

[GlassGlaceon]

OK SINCE THIS WOULD BE NIGH IMPOSSIBLE OTHERWISE
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SWITCH IN ON SPORE
UR WELCOME

 

[Max Carvalho]

Thank you.

 

[mad0ka]

reserving oddish!

EDIT: jk oddish is literal trash

EDIT2: reserving pancham

EDIT3:

Pancham @ Eviolite
Ability: Mold Breaker
Level: 5
EVs: 220 HP / 20 Atk / 20 Def / 212 SpD / 12 Spe
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Bulk Up
- Storm Throw

Okay so this Pancham set is bulky enough to avoid the 2HKO from Tirtouga's unboosted hydro pump and also the OHKO from its boosted hydro pump. Pancham's bulk also allows it to avoid the 4HKO (!!!) from any of Foongus' moves. Basically, what this means is that if Foongus is lead, Pancham easily sets up on him and rekks house. If Tirtouga is lead and doesn't smash, then Pancham easily survives two unboosted hydro pumps and KOs Tirtouga with Storm Throw, despite Tirt not being at -1, and then rests vs Foongus and eventually bets him. If Tirtouga is lead and smashes (worst case scenario), Pancham survives the boosted hydro pump, retaliates with Storm Throw, OHKOs it thanks to Mold Breaker, and outspeeds beats Foongus in the same way described before.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lc-142395942

 

[Lord Alphose]

Reserving Frillish.

 

[Magnetonium]

meh. reservin Mienfoo

EDIT: NVM it cant take a +2 Hydro

+2 252+ SpA Tirtouga Hydro Pump vs. 156 HP / 196 SpD Eviolite Mienfoo: 18-22 (78.2 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(now to think of something else .-./ reserved for another Pokemon)

 

[Superpowerdude]

I know TCR has reserved Croagunk but am I still aloud to reserve SUb + Focus Punch Coragunk? If not nevermind I will edit this with another mon that beats the core

 

[sparktrain]

Timburr @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 76 Def / 236 SpD
Careful
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

Resttalk Timburr cuz it rekks. Can switch into a Spore and fare just fine, can take a Sludge Bomb and get a Guts boost, can take a Giga Drain and doesn't care at all about HP Fighting. Can Knock Off on Tirt, live the +2 Hydro Pump, and then get its health back with Drain Punch. Rest gives it a reliable way to recover just in case a random crit tries to ruin your day. Also, this is better than Lucy's set because I heard she hates puppies js.

If Timburr comes in as Tirtouga smashes, it's outsped and cleanly 2HKOed

+2 252+ SpA Tirtouga Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Timburr: 18-22 (75 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

not a counter

 

[OP]

Bulbasaur @ Eviolite
Ability: Overgrow/Chlorophyll
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 204 Def
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Synthesis

Worst Case Scenario: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lc-142540366

Turn 1: Bulbasaur comes in on Tirtouga using Shell Smash.
Turn 2: Tirtouga uses +2 Stone Edge, bringing Bulbasaur to about 33% health and Bulba puts Tirtouga to sleep.
Turn 3: Hope it's not a 1 turn sleep and then Bulbasaur uses Giga Drain again.
Turn 4: Tirtouga either wakes up and brings Bulbasaur to around 33% health or stays sleeping before dying.
Turn 5+: Bulbasaur easily wears down Foongus and can recover far more than Foongus can deal with Synthesis.

Unfortunately I do have to rely on the sleep lasting for more than one turn, which is the likely outcome but a more solid counter would be nice. The replay is pretty much there to display how Bulbasaur easily beats Foongus 1v1 because the sleep ended up lasting three turns.

 

[blarajan]

GlassGlaceon

if you switch into knock off you TOXIC the mienfoo, not play rough. that way you can spam rest and stay healthy for abra. if mienfoo switches out in the process you tank abra's hits and sleep talk until you can rest next time mienfoo comes in and then you spam rest talk again until you can play rough to kill. playing it wrong doesn't make it less of a counter.