Resource RU Viability Ranking

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Imo tauros is a legit B mon. Like, I really think so.

The reason is p simple. He has the tools he needs to beat any kind of threat that would otherwise threaten or stop him. You can use him however you see fit and he might just be the second best mix attacker in the tier, with Zoroark being the obvious best, and the combination of incredible speed, impressive and deceptive power, and amazing coverage makes him absolute hell to deal with. With the ability Sheer Force, he is an absolutly terrifying wallbreaker, being able to 2hko most mons with Rock Climb aside from resists and insanely bulky mons like alol and gligar. And even then, you can tailor him to beat most of his counters by abusing his deceptive special power.

Lets get back to his speed though... he outspeeds the entire unboosted tier bar jolteon, dugtrio and sceptile, allowing him to be a natural revenge killer and sweeper. Imo he is the deo-s of RU with great speed, AMAZING mix coverage options and, again, underestimated power.

i dont have any replays (mainly cuz i cant play at all these days) but i still believe he is a huge threat and B worthy.
Imo tauros is a legit C+ mon. Like, I really think so.

The reason is p simple. It has an extreme case of 4mss, pitiful SpA (base 40 is horrible). I get its boosted by Sheer Force/Life orb, but it is still horrible. Tauros can run any of: Rock Climb, Earthquake, Zen Headbutt, Fire Blast, Rock Slide, Ice beam. You can MAYBE argue thunderbolt can be used for aloma, but it still hits piss weak. It really can't touch Ghost types, Banette, Cofag can burn it. It is most certainly not a wallbreaker, it is solely a revenge killer. Fire Blast literally cant 2HKO Escavalier (AV), and does less to Abomasnow than Rock slide would. The only thing it hits are Tangrowth and Durant, maybe doublade.

0- SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 138-164 (42.8 - 50.9%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
Might as well use Earthquake since it also 3HKOs and is more reliable.
Ice beam hits gligar...thats it.

Earthquake/Rock Climb are mandatory. Fire blast seems that way too i suppose. this leaves you one last slot, Zen Headbutt, Ice beam, or Rock Slide. Zen headbutt is pretty crucial since it hits fighting types, and weezing notably. but then you're hard walled by gligar. If you dont run zen headbutt you're very susceptible to weezing, amoongus, fighting types, Either way its not a wallbreaker, just a revenge killer with its stellar 110 speed. (You also say the only things faster are Sceptile, Jolteon, and Dugtrio. Accelgor Ninjask and Electrode say hi, even thought they're not really the best lol.) Not to mention most things running a scarf can outspeed..

You call the mix coverage AMAZING..its not. You call it the second best mixed attacker....very far from it. The coverage is p bad and 40 is awful for a mixed attacker.

You call it the Deo-S of RU...Don't know what you're talking about. Its slower than lots of mons, and also is way way less versatile. There's a reason Deo-S was banned from OU, Tauros isnt even close to this.


Either way you're giving this bull way too much credit. There's a reason this pokemon is NU.
 

EonX

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Water Drone, the spread you should be using with Tauros is 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe Naive. So, with that said, here's what the calcs should look like:

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Amoonguss: 207-243 (47.9 - 56.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Fire Blast vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 156-185 (50 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tangrowth: 231-273 (57.1 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 208-250 (62.4 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tauros Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 166-198 (45.6 - 54.3%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 133-156 (39.8 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 273-321 (84.5 - 99.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


The only relevant Fighting-type you're really struggling against w/o Zen Headbutt is Gurdurr due to Eviolite as the rest of the Fighting-types in RU are either frail on the physical end (Hitmonlee, Gallade, Virizion) or take neutral damage from Zen Headbutt anyway (Cobalion) As proven by the calcs, you're still doing fine against Amoonguss while Weezing can't take a lot of prior damage before trying to face down Tauros. Fire Blast deals with what it needs to as does Ice Beam (if you hate Gligar at least) and that's all Tauros needs those moves to do; take care of what they're supposed to beat. Oh, and Ice Beam still 2HKOs Tangrowth after Rocks, so there's that too. Tauros is definitely B-/B imo. Sure, there's quite a few faster things out there, but most have to run a Choice Scarf to outspeed the bull (Sceptile, Dugtrio, Jolteon, and Swellow are the only RELEVANT OFFENSIVE Pokemon faster than it. Accelgor is a suicide lead 99% of the time) and it has quite a bit of power behind its moves, as demonstrated above.
 
Imo tauros is a legit C+ mon. Like, I really think so.

The reason is p simple. It has an extreme case of 4mss, pitiful SpA (base 40 is horrible). I get its boosted by Sheer Force/Life orb, but it is still horrible. Tauros can run any of: Rock Climb, Earthquake, Zen Headbutt, Fire Blast, Rock Slide, Ice beam. You can MAYBE argue thunderbolt can be used for aloma, but it still hits piss weak. It really can't touch Ghost types, Banette, Cofag can burn it. It is most certainly not a wallbreaker, it is solely a revenge killer. Fire Blast literally cant 2HKO Escavalier (AV), and does less to Abomasnow than Rock slide would. The only thing it hits are Tangrowth and Durant, maybe doublade.
yes it has 4mss, yes it has 40 spa.
i didnt say it was an s rank mon either cuz with 100/100 mix attack itd be too amazing.
but sheer force boosts those special moves a lot. Do i need to remind you that nidoqueens spa is 75? Its still strong as fuck.

0- SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 138-164 (42.8 - 50.9%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
Might as well use Earthquake since it also 3HKOs and is more reliable.
Ice beam hits gligar...thats it.
of course... run negative nature on a mix attacker. no wonder you get those weird as fuck calcs.

Earthquake/Rock Climb are mandatory. Fire blast seems that way too i suppose. this leaves you one last slot, Zen Headbutt, Ice beam, or Rock Slide. Zen headbutt is pretty crucial since it hits fighting types, and weezing notably. but then you're hard walled by gligar. If you dont run zen headbutt you're very susceptible to weezing, amoongus, fighting types,
Ill pinpoint eonxs calcs for this

Either way its not a wallbreaker, just a revenge killer with its stellar 115 speed. (You also say the only things faster are Sceptile, Jolteon, and Dugtrio. Accelgor Ninjask and Electrode say hi, even thought they're not really the best lol.) Not to mention most things running a scarf can outspeed..
Again look at eons calcs. Also lol ninjask and electrode. I forgot those pokemon were ever used in ru and are big threats. And accel, fine, its faster. But its a suicide apiker so w/e.

You call the mix coverage AMAZING..its not. You call it the second best mixed attacker....very far from it. The coverage is p bad and 40 is awful for a mixed attacker.
It actually is. It misses out on mbanette and cofag and otherwise has the option to run a strong move for anything else.

You call it the Deo-S of RU...Don't know what you're talking about. Its slower than lots of mons, and also is way way less versatile. There's a reason Deo-S was banned from OU, Tauros isnt even close to this.
The similarties between the mix revenge killing sets. Lots? Well 4 or 5 relevant mons is a huge amount.


Either way you're giving this bull way too much credit. There's a reason this pokemon is NU.
Youre not giving it enough. I urge you to try it if you have so many problems with its, once again, highly underestimated mix strength.
 
My b on the negative calc. I figured you wouldnt want a drop in its already poor spdef. But the guaranteed 2HKOs are pretty important. Ive never seen Tauros in RU bar galbias replays. I dont see why you can say its so good, If it was like Deo-S dont you think it would have already had a ranking/be banned from NU. You also edited my post to say 115 speed. Its 110. Maybe im not understanding. I wouldnt call it B rank until I saw some actually decent replays. I still think its C+/B-.
 
My b on the negative calc. I figured you wouldnt want a drop in its already poor spdef. But the guaranteed 2HKOs are pretty important. Ive never seen Tauros in RU bar galbias replays. I dont see why you can say its so good, If it was like Deo-S dont you think it would have already had a ranking/be banned from NU. You also edited my post to say 115 speed. Its 110.
Yea my bad on that one. I forgot 350 speed is 110 and not 115.
But honestly, try it. You wont be disappointed.
Well, it was an over exaggeration with the deo-s point, i mainly referred to the severe danger it is against offense with the options it has, whilst still being somewhat useful against stall (tauros with power, deo-s with knock off and superpower). Also, im not familiar with NU meta, it might be good or shit there. Idk. It doesn't matter to me though.
im not understanding. I wouldnt call it B rank until I saw some actually decent replays. I still think its C+/B-.
Well its another option to go about it rather than replays. Playing it yourself.
i would play some games rite now but ive only got my phone now <_>
 
There's a reason this pokemon is NU.
My b on the negative calc. I figured you wouldnt want a drop in its already poor spdef. But the guaranteed 2HKOs are pretty important. Ive never seen Tauros in RU bar galbias replays. I dont see why you can say its so good, If it was like Deo-S dont you think it would have already had a ranking/be banned from NU. You also edited my post to say 115 speed. Its 110. Maybe im not understanding. I wouldnt call it B rank until I saw some actually decent replays. I still think its C+/B-.
To start i wanted to say that whether a Pokemon is good is not related by any means to the usage it receives, an example is gothorita in both UU and RU that, while not used much AT ALL (it had like ,05% usage in RU and even less in UU) was incredibly good (to the point of being deemed broken) or Venomoth who received the same treatment while being NU so that is completely irrelevant. Tauros is obviously not the best Pokemon in the tier but it has a solid niche as a (really) fast and powerful physical attacker that can also break some physical walls using its peculiar (to say the least) coverage and that has solid bulk too for a Pokemon that fast. Also i don't see that much of a 4MSS because you really only need Rock Climb Zen Headbutt Fire Blast (or Ice Beam) and EQ most of the time and, as EonX showed, you can wreck havoc. Solid B mon imo
 
I still havent decent replays. And if tauros was very good it would be RU because people would realize its good, use it, and thus it would raise. But they dont, and it hasnt. Gothorita is kinda irrelevant tbh because shadow tag is just broken af, not gothorita itself. Tauros isnt a case of having such a good ability that its banned to OU. Its just not the best RU mon, thats why its NU. It cant really switch in on anything, and it has several flaws. Im willing to accept Tauros as a decent mon, I'd just like the proof. (replays).
 
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atomicllamas

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I still havent decent replays. And if tauros was very good it would be RU because people would realize its good, use it, and thus it would raise. But they dont, and it hasnt. Gothorita is kinda irrelevant tbh because shadow tag is just broken af, not gothorita itself. Tauros isnt a case of having such a good ability that its banned to OU. Its just not the best RU mon, thats why its NU. It cant really switch in on anything, and it has several flaws. Im willing to accept Tauros as a decent mon, I'd just like the proof. (replays).
I actually don't really care about where Tauros ends up in the viability rankings, as I haven't used it at all, but this is just straight up terrible logic. By this logic the Viability Ranking Thread would exactly reflect the Usage Statistics, and while there is some minor correlation between "good" and "used a lot", this is not a very strong correlation, for example, both Claydol and Hitmonchan are RU by usage, and yet are both in E rank because they are not as good as the usage statistics imply. The ladder's statistics are also a really bad measure of usage because at low weights, the ladder is really bad (Ambipom was #1 in raw usage when Kyurem and Sableye were in the tier @_@), and at higher weights the sample size becomes too small to be really significant.

I still havent decent replays.
Others have hinted at this, but I'll spell it out. Use it yourself. If it is not B ranking then you will be able to argue your case more competently, as it is pretty clear that you lack experience playing with Tauros (minus SpA on a mixed attacker o.o).
 
I still havent decent replays. And if tauros was very good it would be RU because people would realize its good, use it, and thus it would raise. But they dont, and it hasnt. Gothorita is kinda irrelevant tbh because shadow tag is just broken af, not gothorita itself. Tauros isnt a case of having such a good ability that its banned to OU. Its just not the best RU mon, thats why its NU. It cant really switch in on anything, and it has several flaws. Im willing to accept Tauros as a decent mon, I'd just like the proof. (replays).
Hello? Since when has the ladder ever been a good way to determine what's good in a tier? This is a ladder that has Ambipom at #3 in usage, Claydol above Virizion, and Moltres below Hitmonchan. The fact that Hitmonchan has any usage at all should be indicative of the fact that stats based off of this ladder have no credibility. I suppose Doublade was bad two months ago too because it was NU? Tauros could be the most used mon in the tier or have literally zero usage and it would still be almost exactly as good as it is now.
 

Ares

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Ah let the shitting on hitmonchan continue. Tbh Chan is actually pretty decent it just seems to be outclassed by the other hitmon, Lee. I have been using Hitmonchan for a while now and while it does get hard walled by some pokemon like Doublade it doesnt mean its a bad poke. (Also pokemon like Doublade are worn down quite easily if they keep switching in on even resisted hits). One of the big things it gets over Hitmonlee is Drain Punch, which provides it with good recovery on top of that it also has a really good SpD (bad HP and alright Defense). Chan gets pretty good coverage in the fists also having Iron Fist to boost them up. One of the biggest things I want to point out is how it is a good Zoroark check, (counter if invested in health). It resists dark and has a big SpD stat to take flamethrower from the mixed set, then proceeds to hit Zoro with a Drain punch gaining back pretty much all the health it lost. Its priority mach punch also hits lots of things hard and has saved me from getting swept a number of times. The main argument is that hitmonlee is better so therefore chan is shit. Chan is actually pretty good and I think it should move up to C+. This post will most likely get shit all over LOL.

I think people just hopped on the band wagon a while back after a couple of people were like Hitmonchan is shit.
 
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ScraftyIsTheBest

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Ah let the shitting on hitmonchan continue. Tbh Chan is actually pretty decent it just seems to be outclassed by the other hitmon, Lee. I have been using Hitmonchan for a while now and while it does get hard walled by some pokemon like Doublade it doesnt mean its a bad poke. (Also pokemon like Doublade are worn down quite easily if they keep switching in on even resisted hits). One of the big things it gets over Hitmonlee is Drain Punch, which provides it with good recovery on top of that it also has a really good SpD (bad HP and alright Defense). Chan gets pretty good coverage in the fists also having Iron Fist to boost them up. One of the biggest things I want to not is how it is a good Zoroark check, (counter if invested in health). It resists dark and has a big SpD stat to take flamethrower from the mixed set, then proceeds to hit Zoro with a Drain punch gaining back pretty much all the health it lost. Its priority mach punch also hits lots of things hard and has saved me from getting swept a number of times. The main argument is that hitmonlee is better so therefore chan is shit. Chan is actually pretty good and I think it should move up to C+. This post will most likely get shit all over LOL.

I think people just hopped on the band wagon a while back after a couple of people were like Hitmonchan is shit.
You basically stated the main reason for Hitmonchan's placement in E; it's completely outclassed. It's not extremely flawed like say, Electivire or Dusknoir, but it doesn't have any real niche over any Fighting-type available. Hitmonlee is simply infinitely better than Hitmonchan since it has much more power as well as Knock Off, which is a huge advantage. Drain Punch is cool, but it's not that strong and doesn't mean much when Hitmonlee has Knock Off as well as Reckless High Jump Kick, which is essentially a nuke button as long as the opponent doesn't send in Doublade/Mega Banette/Cofagrigus on the switch-in. Hitmonchan's main problem that gives it trouble finding a niche is that it doesn't have Knock Off. If it did, there would be a good reason to use it, since having Ice Punch to circumvent Gligar is really cool and Hitmonchan is a bit bulkier than Hitmonlee. As of now, Gurdurr is also much better since it has everything Hitmonchan has, as well as Knock Off.

It's kind of a shame really. Hitmonchan isn't strictly horrible like Electivire or Dusknoir, per se, but it lacks a viable niche over other Fighting-types. That's why it's E. There is no real reason to use it over any Fighting-type available. Now believe me, I'm not just bandwagoning or anything, but Hitmonchan would actually have a real niche if it had Knock Off. But right now, that's not the case, so it's just a Pokemon without a real niche. It should stay where it is.
 

Ares

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You basically stated the main reason for Hitmonchan's placement in E; it's completely outclassed. It's not extremely flawed like say, Electivire or Dusknoir, but it doesn't have any real niche over any Fighting-type available. Hitmonlee is simply infinitely better than Hitmonchan since it has much more power as well as Knock Off, which is a huge advantage. Drain Punch is cool, but it's not that strong and doesn't mean much when Hitmonlee has Knock Off as well as Reckless High Jump Kick, which is essentially a nuke button as long as the opponent doesn't send in Doublade/Mega Banette/Cofagrigus on the switch-in. Hitmonchan's main problem that gives it trouble finding a niche is that it doesn't have Knock Off. If it did, there would be a good reason to use it, since having Ice Punch to circumvent Gligar is really cool and Hitmonchan is a bit bulkier than Hitmonlee. As of now, Gurdurr is also much better since it has everything Hitmonchan has, as well as Knock Off.

It's kind of a shame really. Hitmonchan isn't strictly horrible like Electivire or Dusknoir, per se, but it lacks a viable niche over other Fighting-types. That's why it's E. There is no real reason to use it over any Fighting-type available. Now believe me, I'm not just bandwagoning or anything, but Hitmonchan would actually have a real niche if it had Knock Off. But right now, that's not the case, so it's just a Pokemon without a real niche. It should stay where it is.
Not having Knock off really isnt as bad as people are making it out to be. Yes having knock off would be a lot better because it is an amazing move, but hitmonchan can get by with thunder punch/ice punch to neutrally/super effectively hit the rest of the ghosts, because doublade is the one that walls it and it can only switch in so many times. Also it can take more hits than Lee because of the recovery it get with drain punch.

Something important to note since everyone seems to be raving about SD Zoroark:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Zoroark Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hitmonchan: 178-211 (58.5 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Zoroark Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hitmonlee: 242-286 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Hitmonlee is rekt by SD Zoroark, it can not take a sucker punch after a Swords Dance so all hope of revenge killing it with mach punch is out of the question. While Hitmonchan can take a sucker and kill back with mach/drain respectively.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Zoroark Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hitmonchan: 214-253 (70.3 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Also seeing how as how it can take a +2 Knock Off this means it can Drain punch and get back a lot of its HP.
Maybe this is the reason I dont see Zoroark as a problem...Im running a Hitmonchan.
 
yes....because hitmonchan is the prime answer to all ur problems with zoro.

look frendo, literally THE ONLY thing hitmonchan has over gurdurr is rapid spin, and it rarely, if ever, is actually spinning due to its worse stats in comparison to hitmonlee. can we move on now?
 
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Ares

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yes....because hitmonchan is the prime answer to all ur problems with zoro.

look frendo, literally THE ONLY thing hitmonchan has over gurdurr is rapid spin, and it rarely, if ever, is actually spinning due to its worse stats in comparison to hitmonlee. can we move on now?
Thats the thing though, it actually is my answer to Zoroark. I'm just saying that the argument that it is worse than Hitmonlee therefore it is shit isnt a good enough reason, for me, to rank it in E. I think that C rank defines it perfectly: C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.
 

Mew2

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Ah let the shitting on hitmonchan continue. Tbh Chan is actually pretty decent it just seems to be outclassed by the other hitmon, Lee. I have been using Hitmonchan for a while now and while it does get hard walled by some pokemon like Doublade it doesnt mean its a bad poke. (Also pokemon like Doublade are worn down quite easily if they keep switching in on even resisted hits). One of the big things it gets over Hitmonlee is Drain Punch, which provides it with good recovery on top of that it also has a really good SpD
Hitmonchan doesn't get outclassed by Hitmonlee, it actually gets outclassed by every fighting type on the tier even Primeape has a better niche that Hitmonchan. You mention that Hitmonchan has Drain Punch and good SpD but guess what? Gallade also has Drain Punch and a really good SpD and it's psychic type allows him to switch into Psychic types and it can punish dark types with his ability Justified.

Maybe this is the reason I dont see Zoroark as a problem...Im running a Hitmonchan.
The real reason of why you don't see Zoroark as a problem is that you haven't battled a good player using it for example; your opponent brings out Zoroark disguissed as Yanmega and you switch Hitmonchan out for something like Registeel and BAM! Registeel gets dented by a super effective low kick or flamethrower and guess what? Hitmonchan failed at his job of "countering" Zoroark so in conclusion Zoroark isn't a problem because of it's typing or stats but because of his ability Illusion that in hands of a good player can cause a lot of damage to your oppoent's team.

I think people just hopped on the band wagon a while back after a couple of people were like Hitmonchan is shit.
No, the fact that everybody shares a common opinion doesn't mean that their minds are controlled by Molk or atomicllamas. Hitmonchan doesn't have a niche period it doesn't matter if one or a million people think this it won't change the fact that Hitmonchan is utterly outclassed and stop saying that Drain Punch will allow him to last longer because you won't get enough HP to survive in a tier filled with ghost, phsychic and flying types especially with shitty HP and defenses and with your HP investment Hitmomchan is slow as hell and while it can counter SD Zoroark it has a hard time countering any Pokemon in the tier.
This post will most likely get shit all over LOL
We are in July and you still think that Hitmomchan has a niche of course it will be shitting all over your post, maybe if you bring like 3 replays of Chan doing work against a good player people would respect your opinion, seriously can we just do like Ou viability ranking and blacklist pokemon like Hitmonchan and Claydol? I am tired of people discussing abiut them.
 
...And awkward cut away out of outclassed pokemon is this!

Moltres from A+ -> S

Now I know what you're thinking. Rocks right? Unlike with Yanmega that's held back so much by Rocks due to no Recover outside of Wish-Pass, Moltres has recovery. It also has more to offer compared to Yanmega with Sub Toxic, Offensive, Specs, Scarf, or even Agility sets. Riding high with decent 90/85 defenses and 125 Special attack, very few things wall Moltres.

252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Hurricane vs. 104 HP / 152 SpD Alomomola: 328-386 (65.9 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 285-335 (65.8 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Drapion: 199-235 (57.8 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Despite being checked by Lanturn/Slowking as they are 3HKO'd by the LO set, incredible teammates such as Shiftry, Virizion, and Druddigon have been seen paired up with Moltres to remove Burd's most notable checks. Even Electric types such as Jolteon, Heliolisk, and Eelektross can be stopped by said teammates except Shiftry. It also is worth note that said teammates can also take on Stealth Rock setters such as opposing Druddigon, Rhyperior, Gligar, and Cobalion to an extent. [Virizion would have to win a speed tie. Shiftry is OHKO by CC while Drudd has to be healthy.] On a side note, this is with LO. If it's Specs, Moltres has a chance to 2HKO Slowking and Lanturn after one set of any directly damaging entry hazard. The power is real with Moltres.
 

CyclicCompound

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I'm going to have to disagree with Moltres moving from A+ to S. As much as I love using it, it's held back by some pretty serious problems that make me hesitant to see it there. One huge thing you didn't mention in your comparison with Yanmega was the fact that Moltres is largely held back by its base 90 Speed. While Yanmega gets Speed Boost to compensate, Moltres is stuck at its low speed tier unless it's running Agility, but finding a turn to set up with Agility is far harder than finding a turn to setup with Protect. 90/85 defenses are great for an attacker but don't mean much if Moltres is forced to switch into Stealth Rock, which is never an impossibility, whereas its typing, while decidedly better than average, doesn't provide anything close to a guarantee that Moltres will find a turn to either set up or be able to roost off Stealth Rock damage.

That adds up to the point that in most scenarios, a faster Pokemon will be able to beat a reasonably healthy Moltres. Delphox, Zoroark, Sharpedo, Yanmega, Virizion, Jolteon, Heliolisk, Durant, and Scarf Rotom-C are all common Pokemon that easily force out or beat Moltres (and keep in mind that being forced out is very, very detrimental for a 4x Stealth Rock weak Pokemon). Looking at the S-rank definition, it defines S-rank as "reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support." I would say the massive reliance on Stealth Rock removal as well as the fact that all of those threats must be accounted for means that Moltres cannot function without a higher level of support than directed in the S-rank definition. Don't get me wrong, Moltres is a great, versatile, and powerful Pokemon, and it's definitely one of the top threats in RU. However, I think it requires a little bit too much support for it to be S-rank.

I'd also like to comment on your first calculation: all Alomomola has to do is pull off a single Toxic, and then it can begin a game of Protect + Regen switching which is not only annoying for Moltres but also usually fatal in tandem with Life Orb recoil.
 
Despite being reliant on a pokemon that can remove entry hazards and deal with it's checks, another pokemon from S-Rank also needs similar support. Delphox.

Even though Delphox is only being x2 weak to Stealth Rocks, it's still very hazardous to freely switch-in Delphox whenever it wants. It also has an accursed typing that prevents it from switching into things at full health that Moltres can without rocks such as Doublade, Gallade, Hitmonlee lacking Stone Edge, Mega Abomasnow, Escavalier, and Tangrowth. It also cannot switch into a Knock Off while Moltres can shrug it off thanks to Roost. Some of the aforementioned pokemon that check Moltres also check Delphox due to it's slightly middling speed such as Zoroark, Sharpedo, Heliolisk, Durant, and Jolteon. Even if you run a scarf and say that it helps mitigate this purpose, so can Moltres and can arguably do it better thanks to it's better secondary STAB in Hurricane.

There is also a lack of power between the two as Moltres is a much more powerful wallbreaker compared to Fox. Moltres can actually spam it's two STABs much more effectively compared to Fox who has to predict or be in a good switch-in to take advantage of it's dual STABs. I don't see why Moltres shouldn't be S ranked as Delphox needs as much or more support.
 

Molk

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Alright, updates are probably going be coming sometime today or tommorow, but first off, i kinda want to steer the discussion away from tauros (Moltres discussion is fine though), and bring up some of the proposals on the past page that were for the most part ignored. I'd like some thoughts on those before making any hasty updates.

For reference some of the proposed changes included

Delphox down to A+
Reuniclus down to A
Gurdurr up to B+
Eelektross up to B/B+
Amoonguss up to A/A+
Gligar up to A/A+
Escavalier down to A/A-
Crustle from C- to C

Most of these Pokemon are things im legitimately not sure about myself, so ye
 
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Been a while since I last posted here in the RU rankings, time for a long-ass comeback.

Eelektross (C+) -> B | With the arrival of Jolteon in RU, Eelektross has finally regained its use as an AV attacker. It's still highly capable of checking many Pokémon in the upper regions, providing a great resistance against Jolteon thanks to its Electric resistance. Furthermore, several major Pokémon in the A Ranks have a weakness to Electric, including Yanmega, Sharpedo, Moltres and Alomomola, all of which it can either cripple on the switch with Knock Off or outright OHKO with Thunderbolt coming from a good 105 Special Attack stat. Eelektross has one major thing over Jolteon that it shares with Heliolisk: coverage. It can snare Rhyperior with Grass Knot, usually scoring an OHKO (though not on AV variants), blasts past Escavalier and Doublade with Flamethrower and cripples tons of Pokémon with Knock Off, additionally dealing major damage to Pokémon weak to Dark: Mismagius, Meloetta, Slowking, Cresselia, Reuniclus, Doublade and Delphox, some of these Pokémon being highly reliant on their held item to function. The most common Eviolite user and Defogger, Gligar, is also severely crippled by this move, as losing Eviolite means losing 1.5x of its bulk. Due to sharing Knock Off, Grass Knot and Flamethrower with Zoroark, it can function incredibly well as an Illusion team member for Zoroark to take advantage of.
The spark eel has some negatives, however, namely being susceptible to physical attacks and having a lack of resistances, both of which take their toll on Eelektross's survivability. In addition, Eelektross is unfortunately slow at a measly base 50 Speed, meaning it'll often have to take a hit before attacking. That said, Eelektross is certainly a solid Pokémon in the RU tier, being able to check many higher-tier threats. Eelektross for B.

Gurdurr (B) -> B+ | This guy lifts, alright. No, seriously. Gurdurr does its job as a bulky attacker just as well as always in RU and is capable of dismantling some top threats and even setting up on them, including Rhyperior. It's one of the better physically-oriented Pokémon in the tier due to several points that set it apart from the other Fighting-types: like Gallade, it has Drain Punch as a form of reliable recovery and powerful STAB in one. It also has access to Knock Off to cripple opponents and deal massive damage to Psychic- and Ghost-types. Unlike Gallade, however, Gurdurr isn't crippled by a secondary Psychic-type that makes it more vulnerable to Dark-type moves, making the brawny Pokémon a great switch-in to physical Zoroark. Another reason that sets it apart from Gallade is its access to priority in Mach Punch, sniping frail sweepers like Hitmonlee, Zoroark and Sharpedo, all of which are top-tier Pokémon. Additionally, it's capable of setting up on Alomomola and even absorb potential Scald burns when running Guts; it can set up on physical Cobalion as well thanks to Eviolite giving it impressive physical bulk.
Sadly, Gurdurr isn't flawless, like every other Pokémon. Eviolite can't really save its decidedly low Special Defense, so switching into Zoroark or Sharpedo can suddenly become a gamble if Zoroark uses Flamethrower or worse, if Sharpedo blasts a Hydro Pump at the muscle carnie. As a last flaw, it suffers from a slight case of 4MSS (at least, if running Bulk Up), since it'll have to choose between Poison Jab to hit Aromatisse, Ice Punch to hit Gligar and Dragon-types or Stone Edge to punish Fletchinder and other Fire- and Flying-types. Its flaws aside, Gurdurr is definitely a great Pokémon to use and quite possibly one of the best bulky Fighting-types. Gurdurr for B+.
 
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