Resource RU Viability Ranking

[g]

Amoonguss can stay in A-. While it has awesome bulk, killer ability, and is a solid switch in to Hitmonlee and almost every water type ever (questionable because Slowking is the most common but w/e) it has quite a few flaws that don't make it A worthy in my opinion.
First of all it is not even the main choice as a Grass type in stall as it can't take advantage of the free turns it gets bar Spore while Roselia can set up (Toxic) Spikes and act as a cleric and, with Sleep Clause active, it gives a free switch to threatening Pokemon like Roost Moltres and any Steel-type setup sweeper (Durant, Doublade) who can't really do the same with other "passive" walls like Alomomola who at least can threaten a Scald Burn.

Gligar deserves a bump to A. It is easily the best defogger in the tier as it can switch in and use the move with surprising ease (after Omastar is dead Gligar usually has 1-2 switch in opportunities against Hazards offense) for balanced teams and a blanket switch to most physical attackers (including the all so threatening Hitmonlee) that usually need multiple boosts to break it (unless you are Durant or SubBU Braviary) giving it time to Status them or 2-3HKO if they are Poison or Steel types immune to Toxic. It can also "spread" Knock Off pretty easily, gain momentum with U-Turn, use Taunt, and setup Stealth Rock if you are desperate.

Might edit in more in-depth reasoning later but I think that B is very cluttered (it had like 20 mons) and these are the mons I can see going down:
Cofagrigus, Gastrodon, Heliolisk, Slurpuff, Kabutops (for this I'm not sure because I haven't used it that much), Tangrowth.

 

[Bouff]

Yeah, as Spirit said, Moltres has a good amount of flaws preventing it from being S rank. Along with the points he mentioned, the popularity of shit like AV Slowking who shits all over LO variants unless they manage to get confusion bs, as well as being outsped by a lot of common shit like Jolteon, keep it from being top tier.

Anyways...

Amoonguss: This thing should move up, but not to A+. While it manages to be one of the best answers to special attackers that Slowking can't take on such as Jolteon, Rotom-Mow, and...itself lol, as well as having access to both one of the best moves and best abilities in the game, Spore and Regenerator respectively, it establishes enough of a large niche so that it can provide a good amount of support (covering the special threats that King can't manage), while having decent offensive presence, that it can have a spot in A.

galbia while i do agree with most of your points, Amoonguss can actually serve as a decent check to Doublade if it's running Foul Play, and can actually take it out if Doublade SDs after a first Foul Play, which can then let Amoon take it out (unless it gets like min rolls both times, it's a shaky check really but its there).

Gligar: I'm not really sure about this thing; while it is unquestionably the best defogger in the tier and a damn good physical wall, it has problems dealing with the likes of Slowking, Sharpedo, and even Alomomola, who are constant presences in the tier. Not only that, the fact that it has to trade Immunity for Defog access really hurts it; these problems can be slightly negated with U-turn, but they're obviously a pain in the ass for Gligar in the future. I'd prefer it staying in A-, however I'm not entirely against it moving to A.

Jolteon: Definitely move this shit up to A. the fact that it outspeeds pretty much everything common in the tier barring accelgor, and can hit hard at the same time with one of the best offensive STABs in the tier is a godsend, and fast Volt Switch only helps that. I've seen some people say it has bad coverage, which simply just isn't true. While it certainly isn't the best, it really has just enough options to help it excel in the tier, with shit like Shadow Ball and Signal Beam.

 

[aVocado]

Gligar: Gligar's a great physical wall, but its biggest niche is Defog. It's easily the best defensive user of it, along with its access to reliable recovery, good STAB in EQ, and other cool moves like Knock Off, U-turn, Stealth Rock, Taunt (yes no one uses it but w/e) and of course Toxic. However, most of the Pokemon it's supposed to counter usually carry Knock Off, and those include Pokemon like Hitmonlee, Escavalier, and Gallade, and losing Eviolite is something Gligar really doesn't like. Even with reliable recovery, no passive recovery in the form of leftovers kinda hurts it, and it can still be overwhelmed by a lot of common attackers in today's metagame, and it has rather mediocre SpD stat even after Eviolite. With those flaws explained, it's still one of the best defoggers and a good physical wall/utility mon. A- is fine.

Escavalier: Escavalier is worn down too quickly. The fact that it takes neutral damage from all hazards bar t.spikes, often doesn't have any passive recovery, and mostly has to depend on Wish support to function (For the AV set) is too much. The CB set however is a fucking nuke. It's extremely slow, and Fire right now is a dominant type with users like Delphox, Moltres, Emboar, and then random Fire coverage on Pokemon like Zoroark, Druddigon, etc. It's fallen down from its grace, and since I view A+ as "pokemon that are almost S rank", I feel like it should drop down to A.

Jolteon: It's pretty much the fastest relevant sweeper in RU, and has decent power. The SubPass set is also pretty good from what I've seen (I haven't used it however), but I'll mainly be talking about the offensive Life Orb variant in this post. With Life Orb, Jolteon can be a pretty good late-game cleaner with its base 130 speed, and Electric STAB is good to have against Pokemon like Moltres, Alomomola, and Braviary. Sadly though, priority has been on the rise, and almost all hyper offensive-esque teams carry one of the two speed boosters and/or a choice scarf user along with priority from Pokemon like Hitmonlee and Zoroark, and with Jolteon's mediocre-bad bulk, that's not good. Its movepool, while mostly sufficient, leaves it depending on Hidden Power for coverage, which is weak and needs to hit the targets it hits on the switch which sometimes requires crucial 50/50s and prediction, which can always go wrong. It should stay A- for the reasons stated. A fast, powerful threat, but that alone doesn't justify it rising up because of priority + abundance of scarf users.

Audino: lolno. D rank at best (MAYBE C- if you stretch it enough) or unranked at all, which is what I prefer. It's completely outclassed by Lickilicky and only has Regenerator over it, in Alomomola does a better job at the role of wish + regen pivot/cleric. I know it has Heal Bell and Knock Off but so does Lickilicky, and Aromatisse can provide both wish and aromatherapy if thats what you seek.

 

[Afro Smash]

In what way is Amoonguss overrated, what do you mean 'if you count sleep as something' Sleep can incapacitate a pokemon for the entire game, so of course its counted as something, not only that but after something has been slept you are usually forced out where Amoonguss can hit you with a Toxic, Stun Spore or a Sludge Bomb Poison, then switch out and get regenerator in the process. It's able to tackle literally every Fighting/Fairy/Electric/Water/Grass types in the tier due to its great mixed defences, Regenerator ensures its not heavily crippled by having its Black Sludge Knocked Off, and it can absorb Toxic Spikes, which is important for facing Stall. It can also run Foul Play to ensure things like Doublade don't set up, or HP Fire to catch Durants, so despite its relatively low Offensive presence it isn't easy to switch in to by any means, and you will have to switch in to it a lot since it stops a bunch of threats cold.

Obviously I'm not using a Poison/Grass type to stop Flying and Psychic types, so why you think the fact Braviary and Cress beating it should have any bearing on its ranking is beyond me. It is a fantastic mixed wall, and Spore is easily one of the best moves in the game, definitely deserves an A+ rank.

As for Gligar it is the best Defogger in the tier, having an Immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes and a neutrality to SR, it's typing and bulk allow it to Counter some of the bigger threats in the tier such as Doublade, Hitmonlee, Escavalier, Cobalion, Druddigon. On top of this its access to U-Turn makes it one of the best Pivots in the tier, able to switch in on things it can't necessarily beat 1 on 1 such as Virzion or Gallade (unless based Aerial Ace), tank a hit and then bring in something safely which can scare them out such as Yanmega or Scarf Moltres, and usually find a lot of opportunities to Roost later in the match.

With its Eviolite gone its job does become more difficult but it can still find enough opportunities to Defog and Wall things like Hitmonlee due to its great natural Bulk.

Also I only briefly mentioned them before but Swords Dance/Agility/Substitute Baton Pass sets are actually incredibly good, since Gligar forces out a lot of things it can find a lot of opportunities to set up, and it is useful beyond the initial suprise factor.

It has a lot going for it, but I think the usefulness of being able to wall a ton of threats and then gain momentum with U-Turn cannot be overstated, standing by my push for A rank.

 

[complete legitimacy]

gurdurr is better than most of the stuff in a- yet was only moved up to b+

,,

 

[Kyuzeth]

gurdurr is better than most of the stuff in a- yet was only moved up to b+

,,

Yeah, we should probably try to focus a bit more on A- and B+. I was just a bit careful with my position to move Gurdurr up. Mind giving some examples why Gurdurr belongs there, though? I'm definitely interested to hear.

 

[phantom]

This isn't Gen 5 though, so Sleep doesn't have the same devastating effect, that's kinda why you don't see Sleep Talk users on every other team like you did last gen, which kinda proves the point.

Second, beating every "every Fighting/Fairy/Electric/Water/Grass types" isn't even that impressive or even false when you take a better look at it. There's like one relevant Fairy-type in the tier and it's primarily defensive, so switching in on it isn't that big of an accomplishment. Second, two of the best offensive Grass-types in Mega Abomansnow and Virizion have ways to beat it. Abomasnow obviously destroys it with Blizzard, whereas Virizion can smash it with Zen Headbutt, which is fairly good option considering it lets it break past bulky Poisons easier and isn't solely for Amoonguss. Then you got the Electric-types. The only one it consistently beats is Heliolisk which is a niche threat anyway. Jolteon can turn the tables on Amoonguss with Subpass and make it liability by passing it to SD Drapion or something, and I'm sure Amoonguss just loves taking a Knock Off + Flamethrower from Eel. As far as Fighting-types go, SubSD Cobalion or just Lum Cobalion uses Amoonguss as set up bait, unless it has HP Fire. Gallade and Emboar or also other Fighting-types that destroy it. So no, it doesn't even beat most Fighting-types (or even Electric-types) aside from Hitmonlee, and I bet even Gurdurr can overpower it.

I'd also like to add that it doesn't even beat most Water-types, Slowking destroys it with its STABs, Clawitzer smashes it with Ice Beam, etc. Granted it can check these threats provided it doesn't switch in on those moves, but its defensive typing is so exploitable in more ways than one. This isn't an A+ threat when even the Pokemon it supposedly beats have ways to manhandle it.

Even though Amoonguss can run a lot of options to deal with a key number of threats, that doesn't change the fact that when it forgoes option X, it becomes open to like 5 other threats and so on. I would call that 4MSS which is another one of its flaws. Don't get me wrong, it's a good Pokemon, but it is no where close to A+ given its number of shortcomings. It just doesn't check as much as you make it sound and is fairly one dimensional, and it isn't something you have to specifically account for when team building due to how easy it is to take advantage of. I do think saying Amoonguss is A+ is overrating it when taking the above into account.

 

[Mew2]

gurdurr is better than most of the stuff in a- yet was only moved up to b+

Could you please stop? I am sure an experienced player like you already knows this but one line posts won't help your cause especially if you don't give arguments about how Gurdurr is better than most B+ pokes if you are willing to help, I would like to see less one lined posts about Gurdurr, thank you.

 

[HypnoEmpire]

I was a bit surprised when this Pokemon wasn't on here, so I would like to nominate Leavanny for B/B+ rank, at least for now. It may need to be higher than that to be completely honest.

You may be wondering why I think Leavanny should be ranked so high. Well, to put it simply, Sticky Web is still one of the best hazards in the tier due to the large amount of Pokemon that can abuse it. With Shuckle now gone, Leavanny is now the best user of Sticky Web, as it sports excellent Speed and Attack stats, it has Sticky Web (of course), and it has Magic Coat. With Magic Coat, it can bounce back Taunts from faster Pokemon as well as predicted hazards and status moves. It obviously requires a bit of prediction to use well, but simply getting Sticky Web up is amazing, especially when Pokemon such as Braviary and Doublade can do so well at keeping it up. I use it myself and I think Sticky Web is almost as good as it was previously due to the fact that teams don't prepare for it anymore. Sticky Web isn't nearly as impactful as it was when Shuckle was around, but it's still an excellent hazard and leads me to believe that Leavanny should at least be B rank. I can definitely provide replays if need be. Now, before someone responds something like "but Leavanny sucks because it wasn't good like Shuckle and can't get guaranteed hazards up and it isn't a very good Pokemon," I am nominating Leavanny to this rank mainly for Sticky Web. Sticky Web is such a useful hazard in the current meta and Leavanny is currently the best user of it, so yeah. By the way, this is all assuming it's used with a Focus Sash, which I felt was obvious, but I'm just putting that out there.

 

[MQJinx]

As my favorite Pokemon isn't on the list, I nominate Pelipper for somewhere between C and D rank, possibly C-. It has decent 60/100 physical bulk, Defog for hazards, reliable recovery in Roost, an annoying move in Scald that helps with its bulkiness and an interesting defensive typing that lets it check powerful atttackers like Escavalier, Stone Edge-less Hitmonlee, and Volt Switch-less Cobalion. The downsides are multiple as well, though. Awful special bulk with 4x weakness to Electric (being COMPLETELY walled by Heliolisk as a bonus), (Stealth) Rock weakness, slow base 65 Speed, severe 4MSS (Flying STAB, U-Turn, Knock Off or Toxic) with relative predictability, and most important, competition from Gligar and Golbat as a defensive Defogger, who are bulkier (Pelipper isn't heavily crippled by Knock Off, which is a major selling point). Pelipper should be considered when needing a defensive Defogger due it small niche over its main competitions. And it's better than Sandslash, which is ranked...

Supporting Pelipper for C-, it's usable in defensive and balanced teams by removing hazards for Delphox and Abomasnow to be able to be better wallbreakers and removing Toxic Spikes to help stall, and it can burn threats to stall them out or ease setup for its teammates. A slow U-turn allows attackers to come in without worry, and it can form cores with Grass-types.

 

[colourcodedchaos]

I'd be interested to see where Klinklang fits into the RU meta. Clear Body's a great ability on a boosting sweeper, Shift Gear's the kind of move physical sweepers dream of, its statline's pretty decent and it murders a lot of the tier after a boost. I mean, it obviously has problems with certain chaps in the tier, fast Fire-types being the obvious fly in the ointment (Delphox in particular), but I think there's a place for our little spinny friend. Which doesn't learn Rapid Spin, because of course not...

Anywho, this is the set I've seen a little success with:-

Klinklang GO!
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Sp. Def / 252 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Moves:-
Shift Gear
Gear Grind
Wild Charge
Return

With a move in its arsenal like Shift Gear, I really like a three-move set. However, I admit that there are problems. It dies to Doublade. It just... does. Hell, in some ways it is a worse Doublade with a slightly different focus and a movepool resembling the Kalahari. Alomomola doesn't die quickly enough. Nor does Escavalier. Rhyperior doesn't get OHKOd even with a double Shift Gear, and frankly if your opponent lets you get three off they deserve to lose. It's not all doom and gloom, though. Aromatisse is eviscerated by Gear Grind, as is Mega Abomasnow. Braviary is not a huge fan of Wild Charge, and nor are Talonflame and Sharpedo after a boost. After a boost, Mega Banette, bane of my life that it is, is OHKOd by Gear Grind.

In conclusion, Klinklang could be great; it has the stats of a decent physical sweeper, with the bulk and the boosting move to back it up. It's just let down by a pretty ropey physical movepool outside of Shift Gear. If only it learned Waterfall... but such is life. Therefore, I nominate Klinklang for C- Rank.

I await people telling me precisely why I'm an idiot with great anticipation. =]

 

[HypnoEmpire]

Talonflame isn't in RU, so I'll assume you meant Fletchinder.

 

[Mew2]

I support Klinkklang for C- since it is a fast steel type with one of the best boosting moves in the entire game but the steel nerf and shallow movepool makes it a mediocre pokemon in general. I also want to make a nomination about this guy:

WARNING: this might be my stupidest post in a while read with caution.

He isn't ranked yet and we are in fucking July!!! Seriously shitty stuff like Regirock and Sneasel have a rank anld this isn't even on the list!!! What this thing has you ask? Well ladies and gentlemen first the ball this thing has a fucking double inmunity to E-que you heard it right kid, tired of Mold Breaker Druddigon fucking your Levivate mons with E-que? Well Rotom-S gives zero fucks about that and guess what else this fan has it has a 86 base speed! With a scarf attached it can outspeed things like Scarf Braviary, Jolteon, Zoroark and more! Now you are thinking "Why should I use this thing when Jolteon exists?" well because this thing can shoot fire (Will-O-Wisp)! Can jolteon shoot fire? No he can't because he isn't a fucking fan. Rotom-S can also split his damage with the opponent and even trick it! Wait a minute; Jolteon can't do that because he is a pussy, he has to Wish for recovery and can't touch a special wall that isn't Slowking. For all this reasons I nominate Rotom-S to S rank C+ rank.

 

[Ranger Mike]

CAll me crazy but I say that Masquerein deserves D because although being really really frai even with intimidate and lacking sleep powder it can still quiverpass which can really help a mon such as Exploud. I will not lie it is not very good but it's the only quiverpasser with moth gone afaik so I fell it should be ranked in d because the fact that it is the only pokemon in ru able to quiverpass is cool.
Also gets sticky web so there's that.

 

[Ares]

CAll me crazy but I say that Masquerein deserves D because although being really really frail and lacking sleep powder it can still quiverpass which can really help a mon such as Exploud. I will not lie it is not very good but it's the only quiverpasser with moth gone afaik so I fell it should be ranked in d because the fact that it is the only pokemon in ru able to quiverpass is cool.

And just going to state the obvious here and say that it also gets sticky web. So its a good lead as it intimidates any physical mons and then can set up sticky web and quiverdance baton pass to someone like Exploud, who as Seismitoad said lacks the speed.

 

[Molk]

Alright gonna do some updates:

Updates

Delphox UP to S rank
Yanmega UP to S rank
Escavalier down to A rank
Audino added to C rank
Pelipper added to C rank
Braviary down to B+ rank
Leavanny added to C+ rank

I decided to keep jolteon, gligar, and amoonguss in A- for now, i don't really personally think amoonguss is worth A+ rank (A tops tbh), Jolteon has real chances of becoming A later on, and im legitimately completely unsure on Gligar.

I'd like to see some more discussion on Maquerain, Klinklang, and Rotom-S before adding them. Although i've seen enough of Pelipper, Audino, and Leavanny myself to know that they should be ranked around that range. Leavanny especially, i tried a random webs team with it and it actually worked p. well.

EDIT: forgot klinklang lol

 

[Grey Waves]

Nominating Frogadier for C rank. Although it is extremely frail (that's an understatement), it has good coverage and hits decently hard with Protean and base 83 SpAtk. Frogadier also outspeeds the majority of the tier, most notably all base 80's. It's not the greatest Pokemon in the world but it surely deserves to be ranked higher than Carracosta...

 

[HypnoEmpire]

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Frogadier Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 156-187 (39.5 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

This is a disgrace.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Frogadier Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 156-187 (39.5 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

This is a disgrace.

AV Slowking is just that bulky though...

252 SpA Rotom-C Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 156-186 (39.5 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I think that's kind of unfair to Frogadier, especially because Slowking can't really do much back to hurt it.

 

[Turtleye]

252+ SpA Slowking Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Frogadier: 190-225 (76 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I disagree

This is considering it is pure dark type after Dark Pulse but yeh

 

[HypnoEmpire]

Well: 252+ SpA Slowking Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Frogadier: 190-225 (76 - 90%)
I wouldn't call that not doing much, especially after a couple rounds of Life Orb recoil.

Also, Rotom-C has a good chance of wiping out Slowking with Thunderbolt + Leaf Storm, especially after Stealth Rock. This is also just assuming it has an item like Leftovers.

Anyway, Frogadier is honestly really weak as it can't do much without a Life Orb, it has like non-existent bulk, and while it has U-turn to act as a pivot, it is worn down really easily due to the LO recoil. This thing fails hard against stall and also fails against offense. Take a look at this: 252 SpA Life Orb Frogadier Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hitmonlee: 160-188 (66.1 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. This is so weak that it's a disgrace. Its Speed stat isn't even that amazing when compared to Delphox, Durant, Cobalion, etc. Yeah, I'm not seeing it.

 

[mallpal]

will try to make a more detailed post later, but I really think piloswine deserves a rank somewhere, ice-type priority is hard to come by in this meta and pig is among the best users of ice shard; furthermore, pilo is actually up there with rhyp when it comes to reliable sr setters, and it checks a similar pool of threats. somewhere around c+/b- imo.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Well: 252+ SpA Slowking Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Frogadier: 190-225 (76 - 90%)
I wouldn't call that not doing much, especially after a couple rounds of Life Orb recoil.

Also, Rotom-C has a good chance of wiping out Slowking with Thunderbolt + Leaf Storm, especially after Stealth Rock. This is also just assuming it has an item like Leftovers.

Anyway, Frogadier is honestly really weak as it can't do much without a Life Orb, it has like non-existent bulk, and while it has U-turn to act as a pivot, it is worn down really easily due to the LO recoil. This thing fails hard against stall and also fails against offense. Take a look at this: 252 SpA Life Orb Frogadier Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hitmonlee: 160-188 (66.1 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. This is so weak that it's a disgrace. Its Speed stat isn't even that amazing when compared to Delphox, Durant, Cobalion, etc. Yeah, I'm not seeing it.

Now you're doing it again! Hitmonlee actually has a base 110 SpDef, so it's not surprising it takes it decently well. You can't really expect Frogadier to just flatout OHKO it if that's what you're trying to prove, that calc is rather deceiving. Frogadier could also run Extrasensory and do this if you're that adamant about it:

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Frogadier Extrasensory vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hitmonlee: 234-276 (96.6 - 114%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

I'm not sure if Frogadier is all that good in RU. But it's not weak, considering it makes up for its average base 83 SpAtk with Protean, giving it STAB on everything. Its speed is decent too, everything considered. Greninja is pretty hard to wall in OU besides dedicated walls like Chansey, and Frogadier is not much different in RU. Here's some calcs:

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Frogadier Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 237-281 (54.8 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Frogadier Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-C: 265-315 (109.9 - 130.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Frogadier Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 250-296 (72.6 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It's not breaking through special walls like Aromatisse or even standard physically defensive Alomomola (unless Dark Pulse flinches :) ), but Frogadier is more like an offensive pivot/revenge killer kind of thing anyway. It can also bait in special walls with Protean U-turn which is pretty cool:

0 Atk Life Orb Protean Frogadier U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 164-195 (41.6 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

That's pretty decent damage for something that is "so weak that it's a disgrace". Probably shouldn't be ranked too high, but it's not worthless.

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

The biggest issue with frogadier isnt the power or survivability. It's his speed stat. Base 97 isnt really fast enough to outspeed common offensive mons (and considering he woukd prefer doing the job greninja does in ou, being a pain for offensive teams). And this is also where his lack of bulk is augmented, as in pokemon its a regular baseline on offensive mons (strong+bulk+slow or strong+frail+fast) but he doesn't fit any of them. He is also only moderatly powerful, as most of his moves are below 80 basepowrr aside from hydro and ice beam and his base 83 special stat could be better. Not to say its weak (fletchinder has what 77 attack?), but he neither has the speed nor bulk to truly function in his preferred roles. In othrr words a mediocre option.

 

[Ranger Mike]

I'd say that frogadier might be able to go to c- because it is by no means bad and protean is a cool niche. It is a great momentum grabber via u-turn and scares a lot of things eg non scarf mowtom. As was brought up it is piss frail and can't really kill much at full hp. Hell maybe a scarf set could work if we are complaining about speed then you could play it as a cleaner. Bottom line I have used frogadier and I is not that bad it is just piss frail and just fodder before the enemy is weakened not in a revenge killer way.