Project RU Creative / Underrated Sets Thread

[Enki]

Assault vest tyrantrum..
Tyrantrum @ assault vest
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD or 252 hp / 252 atk / 4 spD
Careful Nature / adamant nature
- dragon claw
- Earthquake / Fire Fang
- Stone Edge / Rock Slide / head smash
- crunch

 

[SpecsHaxorus]

Zoroark @ Assault Vest
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 228 SpA / 32 SpD / 248 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Knock Off
- Night Daze
- Flamethrower
- Focus Blast/U-turn

This set gives Zoroark the special bulk it needs to take on and potentially KO some threats that Zoroark couldn't do with the life orb alone.
Here are some calcs to show how bulky Zoroark can be with the assault vest on.

252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 32 SpD Assault Vest Zoroark: 220-259 (84.2 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 32 SpD Assault Vest Zoroark: 104-124 (39.8 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 32 SpD Assault Vest Zoroark: 198-234 (75.8 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

228 SpA Zoroark Night Daze vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Moltres: 148-175 (46.1 - 54.5%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Zoroark Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Delphox: 288-338 (98.6 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Thanks to the assault vest. Zoroark actually has a fighting chance to 2HKO moltres were as before it could only attack once than die to a fire blast.

248 speed evs is to make sure it still outspeeds delphox. 32 SpD avoids the OHKO from life orb Moltres and a 2HKO from Modest Slowking's Scald most of the time.

 

[atomicllamas]

Slapping AV on a mon as frail as Zoro is neither creative nor good...

 

[TROP]

Zoroark @ Assault Vest
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 228 SpA / 32 SpD / 248 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Knock Off
- Night Daze
- Flamethrower
- Focus Blast/U-turn

This set gives Zoroark the special bulk it needs to take on and potentially KO some threats that Zoroark couldn't do with the life orb alone.
Here are some calcs to show how bulky Zoroark can be with the assault vest on.

252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 32 SpD Assault Vest Zoroark: 220-259 (84.2 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 32 SpD Assault Vest Zoroark: 104-124 (39.8 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 32 SpD Assault Vest Zoroark: 198-234 (75.8 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

228 SpA Zoroark Night Daze vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Moltres: 148-175 (46.1 - 54.5%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Zoroark Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Delphox: 288-338 (98.6 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Thanks to the assault vest. Zoroark actually has a fighting chance to 2HKO moltres were as before it could only attack once than die to a fire blast.

248 speed evs is to make sure it still outspeeds delphox. 32 SpD avoids the OHKO from life orb Moltres and a 2HKO from Modest Slowking's Scald most of the time.

please tell me this a joke

 

[Molk]

Zoroark @ Assault Vest
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 228 SpA / 32 SpD / 248 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Knock Off
- Night Daze
- Flamethrower
- Focus Blast/U-turn

This set gives Zoroark the special bulk it needs to take on and potentially KO some threats that Zoroark couldn't do with the life orb alone.
Here are some calcs to show how bulky Zoroark can be with the assault vest on.

252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 32 SpD Assault Vest Zoroark: 220-259 (84.2 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 32 SpD Assault Vest Zoroark: 104-124 (39.8 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 32 SpD Assault Vest Zoroark: 198-234 (75.8 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

228 SpA Zoroark Night Daze vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Moltres: 148-175 (46.1 - 54.5%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Zoroark Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Delphox: 288-338 (98.6 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Thanks to the assault vest. Zoroark actually has a fighting chance to 2HKO moltres were as before it could only attack once than die to a fire blast.

248 speed evs is to make sure it still outspeeds delphox. 32 SpD avoids the OHKO from life orb Moltres and a 2HKO from Modest Slowking's Scald most of the time.

Using Assault Vest on something so frail is almost never a good idea really. The special defense buff might seem nice at first, but it often still ends up being much too frail even with the boost to actually be truely effective (i mean just look here, Moltres still smashes it after Stealth Rock damage, Cresselia is still doing 50%+ after Stealth Rock, and you should never be keeping Zoroark in on an Aromatisse regardless since it really cant touch it, so being able to take a Moonblast doesn't make a difference. This is especially important on Zoroark though, this varient especially. Because Zoroark sort of needs the Life Orb boost to have good damage output. The offensive stats might be high, but the moves for the most part have pretty low BP, making the extra boost from LO pretty much required. This applies for other frail Pokemon too.

so TL;DR even though this isnt very long

1) Zoroark is too frail to effectively hold Assault Vest

2) Zoroark really needs the Life Orb boost and doesnt hit anywhere near hard enough without it (i mean just look there, Dark Pulse has trouble 2HKOing 0/0 Moltres...).

3) In general, frail Pokemon shouldn't be even considering Assault Vest. There are better options out there overall and quite a bit of the time they're still too frail for the vest to make a real difference.

 

[The Leprechaun]

Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Toxic
- Iron Head
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak

I just made this set for research week to support scyther and it's been pretty cool so far. Nice for donking alom on the switch and as a nice tank. It's very similar to standard sd blade but sacred sword is used over s-claw as it's really nice coverage to hit steels and normal types for really nice damage. Also sclaw is wek before boost.

 

[HypnoEmpire]

Alright, so I guess I'll talk about a set that I've used effectively:

Hitmonlee (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- Rapid Spin

This set is actually pretty decent. It is fast enough to be used all throughout the match and strong enough too. The problem I've faced with Life Orb Hitmonlee is that it's kinda slow, so it isn't really effective as a cleaner or revenge killer in my experience. I'm don't think anything really outclasses this set. Adamant Reckless boosted High Jump Kick still really hurts coming from Hitmonlee's large Attack stat. Knock Off is to hit Ghost-types and stuff while crippling Eviolite walls. Stone Edge is just a solid move to be locked into. Rapid Spin is useful in getting that last minute spin before fainting or when predicting something to switch in that walls Hitmonlee. I guess Jolly can be used, but it appreciates the extra power Adamant brings. Earthquake, Mach Punch, Close Combat, and Poison Jab have some merit I guess. Maybe Pursuit? Not too sure about that one. Anyway, I have never seen this set before so I'm going to assume I found it first :)

 

[Mew2]

I guess Timid can be used, but it appreciates the extra power Adamant brings. Earthquake, Mach Punch, Close Combat, and Poison Jab have some merit I guess. Maybe Pursuit? Not too sure about that one. Anyway, I have never seen this set before so I'm going to assume I found it first :)

You meant Jolly right?

 

[mallpal]

Alright, so I guess I'll talk about a set that I've used effectively:

Hitmonlee (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- Rapid Spin

This set is actually pretty decent. It is fast enough to be used all throughout the match and strong enough too. The problem I've faced with Life Orb Hitmonlee is that it's kinda slow, so it isn't really effective as a cleaner or revenge killer in my experience. I'm don't think anything really outclasses this set. Adamant Reckless boosted High Jump Kick still really hurts coming from Hitmonlee's large Attack stat. Knock Off is to hit Ghost-types and stuff while crippling Eviolite walls. Stone Edge is just a solid move to be locked into. Rapid Spin is useful in getting that last minute spin before fainting or when predicting something to switch in that walls Hitmonlee. I guess Jolly can be used, but it appreciates the extra power Adamant brings. Earthquake, Mach Punch, Close Combat, and Poison Jab have some merit I guess. Maybe Pursuit? Not too sure about that one. Anyway, I have never seen this set before so I'm going to assume I found it first :)

I actually ran a very similar set for a team I built literally on the first day of xy ru, scarf lee has his merits but faces huge roadblocks as a cleaner due to the abundance of spinblockers, particularly doublade and spiritomb which make it very risky to spam hjk. unlike lo sets this lee is literally shut down if you mispredict. it's also unhelpful that kyurem is no longer in the meta, since that was a mon for which this set was one of the more reliable checks.
the big problem with going adamant over jolly is that you miss out on beating other scarfers in the 75-87 range, most notably braviary, rotom-mow and claydol. imo this is important for a cleaner, even if it means lee loses the ability to break mola or tangrowth, say.

 

[EnerG218]

Using Assault Vest on something so frail is almost never a good idea really. The special defense buff might seem nice at first, but it often still ends up being much too frail even with the boost to actually be truely effective (i mean just look here, Moltres still smashes it after Stealth Rock damage, Cresselia is still doing 50%+ after Stealth Rock, and you should never be keeping Zoroark in on an Aromatisse regardless since it really cant touch it, so being able to take a Moonblast doesn't make a difference. This is especially important on Zoroark though, this varient especially. Because Zoroark sort of needs the Life Orb boost to have good damage output. The offensive stats might be high, but the moves for the most part have pretty low BP, making the extra boost from LO pretty much required. This applies for other frail Pokemon too.

so TL;DR even though this isnt very long

1) Zoroark is too frail to effectively hold Assault Vest

2) Zoroark really needs the Life Orb boost and doesnt hit anywhere near hard enough without it (i mean just look there, Dark Pulse has trouble 2HKOing 0/0 Moltres...).

3) In general, frail Pokemon shouldn't be even considering Assault Vest. There are better options out there overall and quite a bit of the time they're still too frail for the vest to make a real difference.

TL;DR Molk hates AV

 

[colourcodedchaos]

Something I've had a little success with, but not enough to justify ZOMGNOOMETTUR status. I think it's the shock value that's been doing it more than anything, but it gets surprisingly bulky on the special side...

Virizion GO!
Ability: Justified
Nature: Mild
Item: Ass Vest
EVs: 156 Atk / 252 Sp. Atk / 100 Sp. Def
Moveset:-
Focus Blast
Giga Drain
Stone Edge
X-Scissor

Yes, it's vulnerable to misses, but it has something a lot of Ass Vest sets lack: reliable recovery. Yes, it pretty much dies if a physical attacker so much as breathes on it, but that's the nature of the beast. Base 108 Speed is nothing to be sneezed at, and Virizion's Special Defence is big enough for the Ass Vest to be worthwhile, which isn't something you can say about other 'mons it's slapped on willy-nilly. I think it has potential. Then again, I'm one of those weirdos that thinks Eelektross, Rampardos and Klinklang have potential, so what do I know? =]

 

[CyclicCompound]

Something I've had a little success with, but not enough to justify ZOMGNOOMETTUR status. I think it's the shock value that's been doing it more than anything, but it gets surprisingly bulky on the special side...

Virizion GO!
Ability: Justified
Nature: Mild
Item: Ass Vest
EVs: 156 Atk / 252 Sp. Atk / 100 Sp. Def
Moveset:-
Focus Blast
Giga Drain
Stone Edge
X-Scissor

Yes, it's vulnerable to misses, but it has something a lot of Ass Vest sets lack: reliable recovery. Yes, it pretty much dies if a physical attacker so much as breathes on it, but that's the nature of the beast. Base 108 Speed is nothing to be sneezed at, and Virizion's Special Defence is big enough for the Ass Vest to be worthwhile, which isn't something you can say about other 'mons it's slapped on willy-nilly. I think it has potential. Then again, I'm one of those weirdos that thinks Eelektross, Rampardos and Klinklang have potential, so what do I know? =]

There's really no point in Virizion's base 108 Speed if it has no speed investment. There are a ton of things between uninvested base 108 Speed and fully invested base 108 Speed - including most Yanmega, Moltres, and Braviary sets - plus a bunch of other strong physical attackers like Gallade and Hitmonlee. These are all Pokemon that can suddenly go from being checked by Virizion to checking Virizion themselves, which just isn't a good position for a Pokemon like Virizion that is so easily exploited without its great Speed stat. Even with a max speed spread, though, I can just barely see Assault Vest working and in all honesty Life Orb, Lum Berry, or even Leftovers seem like better moves, especially considering you can drop X-Scissor in the last slot for something more useful like Swords Dance or Calm Mind depending on the set (X-Scissor hits basically Reuniclus and Cresselia... 6HKOing them both). Virizion is also far more potent as a setup sweeper anyway.

I get that surprise sets like this can sometimes net unexpected KOs and the like, but many good special attackers in RU beat Virizion anyway. Moltres and Yanmega OHKO with their respective Flying-type STABs, Delphox and Slowking get Psyshock, Amoonguss outdamages with Sludge Bomb, so on and so forth... and although Virizion will be a roadblock to Jolteon, Heliolisk, Magneton, and Exploud, Virizion beats those Pokemon anyway without even using AV.

I'm not trying to excessively hate on your set or anything, I just can't see why I'd use it over any other Virizion set.

 

[pokemonisfun]

Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 100 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Curse
- Dark Pulse
- Rest

Fantastic for defensive teams as it spinblocks nicely (add more defense/nature swap if you want it to block better against Hitmonlee) and has a great match up against Psycho Shift Sigililyph and a decent match up against CM Reuniclus which you outspeed and can sneak in a burn on Pokemon that use Substitute because ability. Curse is a lot like Perish Song and kills for instance last Pokemon Registeel but unlike Perish Song it will not hurt Magic Guard users. Luckily the main users of Magic Guard get hurt badly by Dark Pulse. Rest is better than Pain Split usually but I suppose both have their benefits.

 

[EonX]

Never liked Curse on any Ghost, period. Especially when said Ghost is outsped by virtually the entire tier and lacks reliable recovery. Anyway, wanted to share a set that I've been using lately that I don't think a lot of people really expect:

Meloetta @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Hyper Voice
- Psychic / Psyshock
- U-turn
- Shadow Ball

While most Meloetta are SubCM, Specs, or even Offensive CM, there's something really unique about Choice Scarf Meloetta; that being its access to Hyper Voice. Thanks to the buff to sound moves, Meloetta can now strike targets behind a Substitute. This is super cool as it means Meloetta is perhaps the only Choice Scarf user capable of revenge killing the likes of Sub+Bulk Up Braviary, Sub + 3 Attacks Gallade, and Offensive SubRoost Moltres even if they happen to be behind a Substitute. Also, thanks to the wide neutral coverage Hyper Voice has alongside a base 128 Special Attack stat, Meloetta is able to clean up weakened teams rather reliably. Psychic is generally preferred for the slightly higher BP and the fact that this Meloetta is revenge killing and cleaning late-game rather than sweeping or wallbreaking. However, Psyshock is still perfectly usable if you struggle more with the likes of Virizion, Gallade, and Hitmonlee more. U-turn is a great momentum grabber and allows Meloetta to slowly chip away at its checks and counters. Shadow Ball deals with Mismagius, Doublade, and Sigilyph reliably before they can do anything worthwhile to Meloetta. This set can truly be devastating when paired with a powerful wallbreaker like Moltres, Clawitzer, or Delphox since they put heavy pressure on special walls.

 

[pokemonisfun]

Never liked Curse on any Ghost, period. Especially when said Ghost is outsped by virtually the entire tier and lacks reliable recovery. Anyway, wanted to share a set that I've been using lately that I don't think a lot of people really expect:

Meloetta @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Hyper Voice
- Psychic / Psyshock
- U-turn
- Shadow Ball

While most Meloetta are SubCM, Specs, or even Offensive CM, there's something really unique about Choice Scarf Meloetta; that being its access to Hyper Voice. Thanks to the buff to sound moves, Meloetta can now strike targets behind a Substitute. This is super cool as it means Meloetta is perhaps the only Choice Scarf user capable of revenge killing the likes of Sub+Bulk Up Braviary, Sub + 3 Attacks Gallade, and Offensive SubRoost Moltres even if they happen to be behind a Substitute. Also, thanks to the wide neutral coverage Hyper Voice has alongside a base 128 Special Attack stat, Meloetta is able to clean up weakened teams rather reliably. Psychic is generally preferred for the slightly higher BP and the fact that this Meloetta is revenge killing and cleaning late-game rather than sweeping or wallbreaking. However, Psyshock is still perfectly usable if you struggle more with the likes of Virizion, Gallade, and Hitmonlee more. U-turn is a great momentum grabber and allows Meloetta to slowly chip away at its checks and counters. Shadow Ball deals with Mismagius, Doublade, and Sigilyph reliably before they can do anything worthwhile to Meloetta. This set can truly be devastating when paired with a powerful wallbreaker like Moltres, Clawitzer, or Delphox since they put heavy pressure on special walls.

Strangely enough the Spiritomb set I just posted completely counters your Meloetta set. Curse is purely for last Pokemon scenarios so even if Spiritomb dies in the process of Cursing (Curse will not fail but rather kill Spiritomb) it wil have almost certainly been a success. And seeing as Spiritomb has very above average bulk even before any investment it is not hard to survive a hit and use Curse, especially since the target is a boosting sweeper who almost certainly won't have a move to KO you quickly enough.

Also you're not correct in saying Spiritomb is outsped by the entire tier it ties Doublade (creep him) and can outspeed Slowking notably as well as Reuniclus, Bronzong, Escalavier, Amoonguss, Avalugg and Torkoal. There are probably more random NU threats too (I listed Torkoal and Avalugg because they are spinners).

 

[EnerG218]

Meloetta @ Assault Vest
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Relic Song
- Power-Up Punch
- Last Resort

Since everyone here likes putting assault vest on fucking everything, this is just an AV Meloetta set. You probably want to start off with Power Up Punch as Meloetta since it is bulkier than its pirouette form and then Relic Song. Last resort can just do the rest.

 

[Ningildo]

Strangely enough the Spiritomb set I just posted completely counters your Meloetta set. Curse is purely for last Pokemon scenarios so even if Spiritomb dies in the process of Cursing (Curse will not fail but rather kill Spiritomb) it wil have almost certainly been a success. And seeing as Spiritomb has very above average bulk even before any investment it is not hard to survive a hit and use Curse, especially since the target is a boosting sweeper who almost certainly won't have a move to KO you quickly enough.

Also you're not correct in saying Spiritomb is outsped by the entire tier it ties Doublade (creep him) and can outspeed Slowking notably as well as Reuniclus, Bronzong, Escalavier, Amoonguss, Avalugg and Torkoal. There are probably more random NU threats too (I listed Torkoal and Avalugg because they are spinners).

So...it's wasting a move slot for one specific scenario? The mere fact that you are using Rest without Sleep Talk already makes this incredibly reliant on cleric support and incapable of staying in on threats it deals with if it needs to heal. Which it will need to do, as Curse is a ridiculously high risk, not so high reward play that will kill you in most cases. I'm very sure that a wall that (almost) always needs to kill itself to hinder a threat is a great addition to stall teams, because options to deal with last pokemon scenarios are non existent outside of this set. I'm sure there's no move that removes stat boosts or a move that can prevent set up to begin with (hint:not Haze or Taunt, respectively). I'm also sure that if your stall team has issues with Registeel, it has in no way any flaws. It also helps that most Sub sweeping mons are those with CM and, after a few boosts, will definitely get hurt by Dark Pulse to the point where they in no way can heal it off.

This set has many flaws, and so do your mentions of mons getting outpaced by tomb. Doublade runs some speed to troll Rhyperior, you can't exactly switch into Escavalier unless you're healthy and it isn't CB and the other pokemon you mentioned either care little for getting outpaced and cripple you (Amoonguss), have little business staying in fearing a physical set (Slowking, Reuniclus, possibly Bronzong depending on evs) or are irrelevant af (Torkoal and Avalugg...). I don't want to give off the impression of being a sarcastic dick towards you, but I don't enjoy seeing poorly made sets that don't do anything (or are already done more effectively by something else) backed by even worse reasoning cluttering this thread (see 99% of the AV mons).

Edit:The AV set above is ogre af tho *_*

 

[Mew2]

Since everyone here likes putting assault vest on fucking everything

Uhm...

 

[mallpal]

Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 100 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Curse
- Dark Pulse
- Rest

Fantastic for defensive teams as it spinblocks nicely (add more defense/nature swap if you want it to block better against Hitmonlee) and has a great match up against Psycho Shift Sigililyph and a decent match up against CM Reuniclus which you outspeed and can sneak in a burn on Pokemon that use Substitute because ability. Curse is a lot like Perish Song and kills for instance last Pokemon Registeel but unlike Perish Song it will not hurt Magic Guard users. Luckily the main users of Magic Guard get hurt badly by Dark Pulse. Rest is better than Pain Split usually but I suppose both have their benefits.

i'd suggest snarl over dark pulse, actually, since tomb is so weak with no investment or boosts that the power drop doesn't matter a whole lot and the spa drop from snarl can be useful for stalemateing cm users and annoying special attackers that try to switch in.

i get that curse is mostly a filler move but i'd replace it with sleep talk, toxic or taunt personally.

 

[pokemonisfun]

So...it's wasting a move slot for one specific scenario? The mere fact that you are using Rest without Sleep Talk already makes this incredibly reliant on cleric support and incapable of staying in on threats it deals with if it needs to heal. Which it will need to do, as Curse is a ridiculously high risk, not so high reward play that will kill you in most cases. I'm very sure that a wall that (almost) always needs to kill itself to hinder a threat is a great addition to stall teams, because options to deal with last pokemon scenarios are non existent outside of this set. I'm sure there's no move that removes stat boosts or a move that can prevent set up to begin with (hint:not Haze or Taunt, respectively). I'm also sure that if your stall team has issues with Registeel, it has in no way any flaws. It also helps that most Sub sweeping mons are those with CM and, after a few boosts, will definitely get hurt by Dark Pulse to the point where they in no way can heal it off.

This set has many flaws, and so do your mentions of mons getting outpaced by tomb. Doublade runs some speed to troll Rhyperior, you can't exactly switch into Escavalier unless you're healthy and it isn't CB and the other pokemon you mentioned either care little for getting outpaced and cripple you (Amoonguss), have little business staying in fearing a physical set (Slowking, Reuniclus, possibly Bronzong depending on evs) or are irrelevant af (Torkoal and Avalugg...). I don't want to give off the impression of being a sarcastic dick towards you, but I don't enjoy seeing poorly made sets that don't do anything (or are already done more effectively by something else) backed by even worse reasoning cluttering this thread (see 99% of the AV mons).

Edit:The AV set above is ogre af tho *_*

You appear to me not to understand how full stall teams work and since you appear ignorant of how it works let me try my best to explain to you please. Stall in my opinion is a very beautiful playstyle that allows you to see the most aspects of Pokemon and allows you to have the most clear coherent strategy which is why I have familiarized myself with stall Adv OU, DPPT OU, DPPT UU, DPPT NU, BW UU, BW OU, XY Ubers, XY UU, XY RU, XY NU and become frankly amazing on the ladder and/or in small tours in each of these tiers. Explaining how stall works to slightly less knowledgeable people really is a joy to me.

Being reliant on cleric support is not a significant problem for stall teams (however you are not /that/ reliant since your large defenses and WoW meaning you can easily rest for 3 turns on many physical attackers) because stall teams generally have the cleric role filled out. Stall is all about fulfilling roles and having counters to most threats; those roles are, in no particular order, generally: a Wish passer, a Cleric, a Ghost Type, a SR user, other hazard users, a physical wall (or more than one), a special wall (or more than one), a mixed wall (or more than one, defenses can be biased but both need to be at least good), a Defog and/or Rapid Spin user and a phazer (pseudo hazer). Clearly there are more than 6 things I just listed so you do need to combine roles, examples of that would be for instance Gligar which has both Defog, Stealth Rock and good physical defense. This the reason why Blissey and Blissey incarnations (Chansey, Audino, Aromatisse, Umbreon, Florges) is so common on stall teams in all tiers, they all have good special and very passable physical bulk while they also have access to Wish and Heal Bell. This is also why Spiritomb has significant utility on Stall teams, he has the coveted Ghost typing (bolstered by ability to switch in on the majority of Rapid Spin users), passable mixed bulk, and a few phazing moves: Infiltrator WoW and of course Curse.

Infiltrator WoW should explain itself but since you don't appear that knowledgeable I'll give a small explanation to that as well. Generally Substitute plus a boosting move is a very common strategy that people use in offensive teams because the Substitute blocks status moves and can be bolstered by the boosts as well as having general utility is scouting turns giving you a sort of safeguard. Stall has very weak attacks for the most part and often cannot break a Substitute even before boosts are accumulated and you can already imagine now a Pokemnon hiding behind a Substitute boosting their power to higher levels than anything else unboosted, a +6 Braviary without any investment in attack even is still going to hit harder than for instance Choice Banded Kyurem Black. It will be practically impossible to wall. Stall is forced to more creative measures to deal with such threats and Spiritomb has an answer in infiltrator WoW.

Curse is the move you had the most complaints with I suspect and I understand why, very very few people have ever used Curse on a competitive team so to you it is a shoddy status move among the likes of Attract and Safeguard. But Curse has real utility for stall teams in that it completely hampers the utility of last Pokemon boosters. A Rest Talk Drapion or a Cradily or a Rest Talk Registeel; these are all obscure threats that threaten to completely sweep away stall teams because stall certainly doesn't employ strong enough attacks to kill them and stall can't simply status them because access to Rest. Even more traditional phazing moves such as Roar will fail to work at the last Pokemon scenario. Curse offers a Perish Song-esque solution and as the damage is major to Rest users (25% per turn) and as the status cannot be healed off with Rest it allows stall teams to just pile on the damage and ultimately kill the opposing Resting booster before the booster gets a chance to heal.

Now if you read through my whole post so far you may actually understand by now why your part of the post regarding Spiritomb's speed was so incredibly pointless. As I have already said Curse Spiritomb is to be used on stall teams. And you know what stall teams are composed of now: walls with different utility ultimately meaning a team full of defensive Pokemon that can counter the vast majority of threats in the game while applying passive chip damage (just use Toxic once on a sweeper and immediately it is on a timer). So Spiritomb is never going to be a competent stall team's first switch in to Escalavier because Spiritomb isn't the primary physical wall; it is a spinblocker (Ghost Type) and phazer and of course like all Pokemon can randomly counter other Pokemon because unique typing and base stats and movepool such as Meloetta. The fact that Spiritomb outpaces Escalavier and can burn him quickly is important because we are realistic and realize a one on one situation might happen and then Spiritomb will handily win the match up. And for the three Psychic types you just mentioned stall will need a counter to them anyways eventually because otherwise it will probably just lose: stall is far too weak to kill these threats without some sort of concrete response. The fact that Spiritomb can act as something as a counter to them (Calm Mind Slowking doesn't mind Spiritomb too much)is a plus for Spiritomb and it can only counter really because the extra speed. Do not view the fact that they can just switch out as a real minus for Spiritomb because that is how nearly all defensive Pokemon work. There is honestly no such thing as being irrelevant to a stall team, it must account for as many threats as possible. Certainly nearly nobody uses Curse Rest Talk Torterra but that has a real chance and ability to sweep a stall team if it is not taken into account. And Torkoal and Avalugg will have a real chance to spin and disrupt the stall team if they are not taken into account, luckily Spiritomb can fairly easily switch into them (unless Torkoal is running a Shell Smash set).

Ultimately Stall is a wonderful playstyle in my opinion, Spiritomb or not, because it makes you realize how complex Pokemon actually is. Offensive teams are so incredibly crude and just look for a fast sweep often just piling on 3 or 4 attacking moves on one Pokemon. But stall lets you see the mechanics behind so much more such as how hazards work, how status works, how moves you would not normally expect to see like Curse works. If you read my entire post thank you very much, if you didn't I suggest you do because I think it will help give you some knowledge which can improve your battling skills.

PS mallpal I might try Snarl actually but you might be underestimating Spiritomb's power since it has quite a decent special attack and the drop from 80 to 55 with 95 accuracy is big on things like Delphox which troubles my team personally. Taunt Toxic and Sleep Talk are basically out of the question over Curse for reasons I have basically explained above.

 

[Anty]

You appear to me not to understand how full stall teams work and since you appear ignorant of how it works let me try my best to explain to you please. Stall in my opinion is a very beautiful playstyle that allows you to see the most aspects of Pokemon and allows you to have the most clear coherent strategy which is why I have familiarized myself with stall Adv OU, DPPT OU, DPPT UU, DPPT NU, BW UU, BW OU, XY Ubers, XY UU, XY RU, XY NU and become frankly amazing on the ladder and/or in small tours in each of these tiers. Explaining how stall works to slightly less knowledgeable people really is a joy to me.

Being reliant on cleric support is not a significant problem for stall teams (however you are not /that/ reliant since your large defenses and WoW meaning you can easily rest for 3 turns on many physical attackers) because stall teams generally have the cleric role filled out. Stall is all about fulfilling roles and having counters to most threats; those roles are, in no particular order, generally: a Wish passer, a Cleric, a Ghost Type, a SR user, other hazard users, a physical wall (or more than one), a special wall (or more than one), a mixed wall (or more than one, defenses can be biased but both need to be at least good), a Defog and/or Rapid Spin user and a phazer (pseudo hazer). Clearly there are more than 6 things I just listed so you do need to combine roles, examples of that would be for instance Gligar which has both Defog, Stealth Rock and good physical defense. This the reason why Blissey and Blissey incarnations (Chansey, Audino, Aromatisse, Umbreon, Florges) is so common on stall teams in all tiers, they all have good special and very passable physical bulk while they also have access to Wish and Heal Bell. This is also why Spiritomb has significant utility on Stall teams, he has the coveted Ghost typing (bolstered by ability to switch in on the majority of Rapid Spin users), passable mixed bulk, and a few phazing moves: Infiltrator WoW and of course Curse.

Infiltrator WoW should explain itself but since you don't appear that knowledgeable I'll give a small explanation to that as well. Generally Substitute plus a boosting move is a very common strategy that people use in offensive teams because the Substitute blocks status moves and can be bolstered by the boosts as well as having general utility is scouting turns giving you a sort of safeguard. Stall has very weak attacks for the most part and often cannot break a Substitute even before boosts are accumulated and you can already imagine now a Pokemnon hiding behind a Substitute boosting their power to higher levels than anything else unboosted, a +6 Braviary without any investment in attack even is still going to hit harder than for instance Choice Banded Kyurem Black. It will be practically impossible to wall. Stall is forced to more creative measures to deal with such threats and Spiritomb has an answer in infiltrator WoW.

Curse is the move you had the most complaints with I suspect and I understand why, very very few people have ever used Curse on a competitive team so to you it is a shoddy status move among the likes of Attract and Safeguard. But Curse has real utility for stall teams in that it completely hampers the utility of last Pokemon boosters. A Rest Talk Drapion or a Cradily or a Rest Talk Registeel; these are all obscure threats that threaten to completely sweep away stall teams because stall certainly doesn't employ strong enough attacks to kill them and stall can't simply status them because access to Rest. Even more traditional phazing moves such as Roar will fail to work at the last Pokemon scenario. Curse offers a Perish Song-esque solution and as the damage is major to Rest users (25% per turn) and as the status cannot be healed off with Rest it allows stall teams to just pile on the damage and ultimately kill the opposing Resting booster before the booster gets a chance to heal.

Now if you read through my whole post so far you may actually understand by now why your part of the post regarding Spiritomb's speed was so incredibly pointless. As I have already said Curse Spiritomb is to be used on stall teams. And you know what stall teams are composed of now: walls with different utility ultimately meaning a team full of defensive Pokemon that can counter the vast majority of threats in the game while applying passive chip damage (just use Toxic once on a sweeper and immediately it is on a timer). So Spiritomb is never going to be a competent stall team's first switch in to Escalavier because Spiritomb isn't the primary physical wall; it is a spinblocker (Ghost Type) and phazer and of course like all Pokemon can randomly counter other Pokemon because unique typing and base stats and movepool such as Meloetta. The fact that Spiritomb outpaces Escalavier and can burn him quickly is important because we are realistic and realize a one on one situation might happen and then Spiritomb will handily win the match up. And for the three Psychic types you just mentioned stall will need a counter to them anyways eventually because otherwise it will probably just lose: stall is far too weak to kill these threats without some sort of concrete response. The fact that Spiritomb can act as something as a counter to them (Calm Mind Slowking doesn't mind Spiritomb too much)is a plus for Spiritomb and it can only counter really because the extra speed. Do not view the fact that they can just switch out as a real minus for Spiritomb because that is how nearly all defensive Pokemon work. There is honestly no such thing as being irrelevant to a stall team, it must account for as many threats as possible. Certainly nearly nobody uses Curse Rest Talk Torterra but that has a real chance and ability to sweep a stall team if it is not taken into account. And Torkoal and Avalugg will have a real chance to spin and disrupt the stall team if they are not taken into account, luckily Spiritomb can fairly easily switch into them (unless Torkoal is running a Shell Smash set).

Ultimately Stall is a wonderful playstyle in my opinion, Spiritomb or not, because it makes you realize how complex Pokemon actually is. Offensive teams are so incredibly crude and just look for a fast sweep often just piling on 3 or 4 attacking moves on one Pokemon. But stall lets you see the mechanics behind so much more such as how hazards work, how status works, how moves you would not normally expect to see like Curse works. If you read my entire post thank you very much, if you didn't I suggest you do because I think it will help give you some knowledge which can improve your battling skills.

PS mallpal I might try Snarl actually but you might be underestimating Spiritomb's power since it has quite a decent special attack and the drop from 80 to 55 with 95 accuracy is big on things like Delphox which troubles my team personally. Taunt Toxic and Sleep Talk are basically out of the question over Curse for reasons I have basically explained above.

I still see no need for curse as it is too situational and if your that afraid of set up sweepers, you might as well use taunt. Taunt also helps against other stall and will stop other set up sweepers as well, curse is just too unreliable. You didnt give proper reasoning why 'taunt is out of the question', it seems to be a lot more viable than curse

Also you majorly overstate how good stall and spiritomb is. Although it is fast enough to out speed escavalier, the opp will know that and can easily switch out. Torkoal and avalug are stopped by any spinner (unless ss, as you said) and any stall team should be weary of spinners and have spin blockers. Another problem is rest by itself, you are either forced to switch and give the opp a set up opportunity, and offensive teams can apply pressure to stop heal bell
The problem with snarl as if the opp taunts you, you are a sitting duck.

Im not completely sure if you have ever tried the spiritomb set, seeing how you would've imported it and it has 20 too many evs.
252 + 100 + 176 = 528, max is 508


e: i have played stall before. What you are saying is pedantic and pathetic and your ignorance is clearly showing by how you think your the only intelligent one on here. Just because people disgree with you, doesnt mean they are wrong

 

[Mahmudkipz]

A slow Taunt means that your opponent would have gotten 2 boosts as you switch in and Taunt it, which could be enough to sweep unless it has a timer... which Stall can easily stall out with timed Protects and/or pulling switches. Think of Spiritomb's Curse as a last ditch Toxic that works on all types except it is cured upon switch out. Hilarious is an experienced stall player and has reached the top of RU ladder with his stall team so he knows what he is talking about.

Btw Snarl isn't a status move so Taunt has no effect on it.

 

[pokemonisfun]

I still see no need for curse as it is too situational and if your that afraid of set up sweepers, you might as well use taunt. Taunt also helps against other stall and will stop other set up sweepers as well, curse is just too unreliable. You didnt give proper reasoning why 'taunt is out of the question', it seems to be a lot more viable than curse

Also you majorly overstate how good stall and spiritomb is. Although it is fast enough to out speed escavalier, the opp will know that and can easily switch out. Torkoal and avalug are stopped by any spinner (unless ss, as you said) and any stall team should be weary of spinners and have spin blockers. Another problem is rest by itself, you are either forced to switch and give the opp a set up opportunity, and offensive teams can apply pressure to stop heal bell
The problem with snarl as if the opp taunts you, you are a sitting duck.

Im not completely sure if you have ever tried the spiritomb set, seeing how you would've imported it and it has 20 too many evs.
252 + 100 + 176 = 528, max is 508

Well I didn't want to reveal my speed creep so I took away the speed and added it to defenses but apparently I messed that up somehow. I assure you I do use the set though.

@watfor has got it completely right in my opinion except that Curse unlike Toxic is not healed by Rest which is essential. He also go the Snarl mechanics although it is more of a side point since most things don't have Taunt and a boosting move. I do not understand why people keep on turning strengths into weaknesses; it is a plus that Spiritomb can force out Escalavier and give away free burns, it is a plus that Spiritomb can spinblock against the majority of spinners and more spinners than Doublade in any case which I think is the most used Ghost. Offensive teams can apply pressure yeah but they are less likely to have clerics themselves and that makes Spiritomb more potent with the burns; it is always a trade off the extra pressure offensive teams has comes at the cost of being more vulnerable to passive damage.

I'm done with these Curse posts unless someone has something concrete and intelligent to criticize me with; it is clear to me you just don't understand stall which is sad.

 

[Ningildo]

You appear to me not to understand how full stall teams work and since you appear ignorant of how it works let me try my best to explain to you please. Stall in my opinion is a very beautiful playstyle that allows you to see the most aspects of Pokemon and allows you to have the most clear coherent strategy which is why I have familiarized myself with stall Adv OU, DPPT OU, DPPT UU, DPPT NU, BW UU, BW OU, XY Ubers, XY UU, XY RU, XY NU and become frankly amazing on the ladder and/or in small tours in each of these tiers. Explaining how stall works to slightly less knowledgeable people really is a joy to me.

Being reliant on cleric support is not a significant problem for stall teams (however you are not /that/ reliant since your large defenses and WoW meaning you can easily rest for 3 turns on many physical attackers) because stall teams generally have the cleric role filled out. Stall is all about fulfilling roles and having counters to most threats; those roles are, in no particular order, generally: a Wish passer, a Cleric, a Ghost Type, a SR user, other hazard users, a physical wall (or more than one), a special wall (or more than one), a mixed wall (or more than one, defenses can be biased but both need to be at least good), a Defog and/or Rapid Spin user and a phazer (pseudo hazer). Clearly there are more than 6 things I just listed so you do need to combine roles, examples of that would be for instance Gligar which has both Defog, Stealth Rock and good physical defense. This the reason why Blissey and Blissey incarnations (Chansey, Audino, Aromatisse, Umbreon, Florges) is so common on stall teams in all tiers, they all have good special and very passable physical bulk while they also have access to Wish and Heal Bell. This is also why Spiritomb has significant utility on Stall teams, he has the coveted Ghost typing (bolstered by ability to switch in on the majority of Rapid Spin users), passable mixed bulk, and a few phazing moves: Infiltrator WoW and of course Curse.

Infiltrator WoW should explain itself but since you don't appear that knowledgeable I'll give a small explanation to that as well. Generally Substitute plus a boosting move is a very common strategy that people use in offensive teams because the Substitute blocks status moves and can be bolstered by the boosts as well as having general utility is scouting turns giving you a sort of safeguard. Stall has very weak attacks for the most part and often cannot break a Substitute even before boosts are accumulated and you can already imagine now a Pokemnon hiding behind a Substitute boosting their power to higher levels than anything else unboosted, a +6 Braviary without any investment in attack even is still going to hit harder than for instance Choice Banded Kyurem Black. It will be practically impossible to wall. Stall is forced to more creative measures to deal with such threats and Spiritomb has an answer in infiltrator WoW.

Curse is the move you had the most complaints with I suspect and I understand why, very very few people have ever used Curse on a competitive team so to you it is a shoddy status move among the likes of Attract and Safeguard. But Curse has real utility for stall teams in that it completely hampers the utility of last Pokemon boosters. A Rest Talk Drapion or a Cradily or a Rest Talk Registeel; these are all obscure threats that threaten to completely sweep away stall teams because stall certainly doesn't employ strong enough attacks to kill them and stall can't simply status them because access to Rest. Even more traditional phazing moves such as Roar will fail to work at the last Pokemon scenario. Curse offers a Perish Song-esque solution and as the damage is major to Rest users (25% per turn) and as the status cannot be healed off with Rest it allows stall teams to just pile on the damage and ultimately kill the opposing Resting booster before the booster gets a chance to heal.

Now if you read through my whole post so far you may actually understand by now why your part of the post regarding Spiritomb's speed was so incredibly pointless. As I have already said Curse Spiritomb is to be used on stall teams. And you know what stall teams are composed of now: walls with different utility ultimately meaning a team full of defensive Pokemon that can counter the vast majority of threats in the game while applying passive chip damage (just use Toxic once on a sweeper and immediately it is on a timer). So Spiritomb is never going to be a competent stall team's first switch in to Escalavier because Spiritomb isn't the primary physical wall; it is a spinblocker (Ghost Type) and phazer and of course like all Pokemon can randomly counter other Pokemon because unique typing and base stats and movepool such as Meloetta. The fact that Spiritomb outpaces Escalavier and can burn him quickly is important because we are realistic and realize a one on one situation might happen and then Spiritomb will handily win the match up. And for the three Psychic types you just mentioned stall will need a counter to them anyways eventually because otherwise it will probably just lose: stall is far too weak to kill these threats without some sort of concrete response. The fact that Spiritomb can act as something as a counter to them (Calm Mind Slowking doesn't mind Spiritomb too much)is a plus for Spiritomb and it can only counter really because the extra speed. Do not view the fact that they can just switch out as a real minus for Spiritomb because that is how nearly all defensive Pokemon work. There is honestly no such thing as being irrelevant to a stall team, it must account for as many threats as possible. Certainly nearly nobody uses Curse Rest Talk Torterra but that has a real chance and ability to sweep a stall team if it is not taken into account. And Torkoal and Avalugg will have a real chance to spin and disrupt the stall team if they are not taken into account, luckily Spiritomb can fairly easily switch into them (unless Torkoal is running a Shell Smash set).

Ultimately Stall is a wonderful playstyle in my opinion, Spiritomb or not, because it makes you realize how complex Pokemon actually is. Offensive teams are so incredibly crude and just look for a fast sweep often just piling on 3 or 4 attacking moves on one Pokemon. But stall lets you see the mechanics behind so much more such as how hazards work, how status works, how moves you would not normally expect to see like Curse works. If you read my entire post thank you very much, if you didn't I suggest you do because I think it will help give you some knowledge which can improve your battling skills.

PS mallpal I might try Snarl actually but you might be underestimating Spiritomb's power since it has quite a decent special attack and the drop from 80 to 55 with 95 accuracy is big on things like Delphox which troubles my team personally. Taunt Toxic and Sleep Talk are basically out of the question over Curse for reasons I have basically explained above.

Where and when did I say stall was a shitty playstyle? Where did I mention I didn't know how stall works? I dislike using Stall a lot, as it takes a long ass while to win a battle (unless ladder), so I prefer Offense, but jesus...

Well let's see. You brought up that it isn't outpaced by everything in the tier (when EonX said "virtually". As in, damn near everything, not everything), so I just pointed out that the things you outpace aren't exactly things that you do something against or stay in on. Don't bring up irrelevant things if it doesn't showcase anything Spiritomb does.

Secondly, I'm well aware Cleric support is mandatory on Stall (like every XY RU stall team ever uses Aroma, lol) and of the basic teambuild that Stall follows in order to attempt what it does best: not dying. However, I mention the fact that you need Cleric support as the moment you use Rest, you are set up bait for anything due no Sleep Talk, so you need to switch out. Why does this suck? In order for you to keep checking/countering whatever you do, you need to stay healthy and thus, need a source of healing. If your counter needs to switch out of the pokemon it does counter to not let it set up all over it, it kind of defeats the point of a counter. And if you think someone lets a physical attacker that is obviously gonna get burned stay in, then lol.

Your ev spread isn't helping it beat arguably the second best spinner in the tier in Kabutops (has an 85% chance of getting 2HKO'd by Waterfall after SR, always gets 2HKOd by SE), so you would run a more physically defensive spread to let it, you know, spinblock effectively. But remember, if Kabutops switches out, fearing missing the KO and getting burned, switching into, say, Moltres and forcing you out, you are now at half health and realistically, you would've gone for wisp or rest to cripple tops or not die, respectively (switching out of a spinner and losing your hazards is against the point of having a Spinblocker, isn't it?). You are now either staring down one of the most terrifying attackers in the tier while being forced to switch or the same thing, but with being set up bait next time you come in. Good spin blocking.

I'm very certain that Haze and Taunt are available to be used in these situations, removing much of the point of Curse, as does Perish Song, but that has far less users iirc. I mean, if Stall would always auto lose to last mon situations without Curse, its usage would be higher, right. I'm sure that tons of Stall teams don't have Curse tomb and do fine.

Lol, Curse RestTalk Torterra is fucked up by Taunt and has two STABs that have immunity's. All of these RestTalk sweepers are fucked by Taunt, courtesy of Drapion or Spiritomb and others. And, no, relevant threats > irrelevant threats. I'm sure that having no plan against Delphox is a tad bit more scary then, say, having issues with SD Clawitzer or something else ridiculously obscure.

Finally, I felt like an ass for making a very sarcastic reply to you and thought about editing it. But this is one of the more condescending posts I have seen, from implications that I have no idea how Stall works and shouldn't give criticism on a set that is only for Stall teams to saying I lack mechanic knowledge and require explanations for things I already know (and should know) to giving remarks about my lack in skill (idk about this one). Maybe this was unintentional, but this post makes you look like you judged my skill, knowledge and more just from reading two paragraphs, which gives the feel of an arrogant, swift judging prickerson. I have nothing against you or you making these kind of posts. But if you're going to degrade me in a post, at least make sure the basis of the post (in this case, my lack of knowledge/skill/ w/e and you saying that that makes my points false) is actually correct and that you address my other argument (that less risky options for these situations exist, reducing the usefulness of Curse tomb) instead of ignoring it.

EDIT:

I'm done with these Curse posts unless someone has something concrete and intelligent to criticize me with; it is clear to me you just don't understand stall which is sad.

Lol, you arrogant (BAN ME PLEASE).

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

Well, that escalated quickly.

Why use Curse Tomb when you can use Perish Song Meloetta tho?