Resource RU Viability Ranking

[EonX]

Frogadier: While it's far from great, Protean definitely gives Frogadier a niche since it gets STAB on every move it uses, thus helping to make up for its mediocre Special Attack stat. It's got some solid coverage moves in the form of Ice Beam, Dark Pulse, HP Fire, and Grass Knot. However, it CAN'T learn Extrasensory, so sorry to whoever said it could. Anyway, back on point. The Speed is sort of a letdown, but don't forget that base 97 still gets it in front of the likes of Hitmonlee, Moltres, and Yanmega, thus allowing Frogadier to potentially revenge kill these targets, all of which are very dangeorus and relevant. It's bulk is about as poor as Sharpedo's and it may not have ground-breaking power, but Protean and base 97 Speed give Frogadier enough of a niche to be C-/C rank in my view.

 

[Leer]

One Pokemon I'd like to bring up is Doublade for S rank. To be honest right off the bat, Doublade can tear through unprepared teams like they're nothing if left unchecked. Many skilled players know this, seeing as it's pretty high in the upper usage stats. I've been testing Doublade a lot lately myself, and honestly I think it deserves the top spot after seeing what it can do. For starters, Doublade has a very nice 110 Attack, and can also set up a Swords Dance or two on a vast portion of the tier to further boost it. After that, it can rip through teams, able to take hits with a godlike 150 Eviolite boosted Defense and give back with boosted Iron Heads and Shadow Claws/Sneaks. Speaking of bulk, it can take just about every physical hit in the tier, bar a few more powerful SE moves, and even some of those. On top of that, a lot the common solutions to Doublade aren't even always that good. Knock Off may seem like a decent solution to both hit it super effectively and take away its Eviolite, but it can often bulk a hit and return a harder one. Shadow Sneak takes away Doublade's speed issue, hitting faster, frailer mons like Delphox hard after a boost, and many walls are already slower than Doublade anyways, including Aromatisse, Slowking, and Bronzong, all of which it can hit super effectively. Even stuff that's normally good is brought down because of their inability to deal with Doublade, due to its bulk, power, and great defensive typing. Virizion, Cobalion, Cresselia, and Braviary, for example, all do really well against many Pokemon in the meta but fail to do much to Doublade and struggle when it's alive. Baby Smogon Sword for S Rank.

May edit this later or post more with more stuff (although Doublade is Doublade, not much to say except whats been said and that it's really good) but for now, here are a few 'relevant calcs' of Doublade beating some stuff:

Hide

Delphox:
252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Delphox: 294-348 (100.6 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Delphox: 336-396 (115 - 135.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
If Doublade Shadow Claws or Swords Dances on the swtich, Delphox is out. Even one of the tier's best fire types is a check at best.

Slowking:
252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 270-320 (68.5 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 540-636 (137 - 161.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Slowking Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 258-304 (80.1 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Slowking can't OHKO with Fire Blast, and only has a 6% chance with SR up.

Drapion:
+2 252+ Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Drapion: 235-277 (68.5 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Drapion Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 128-152 (39.7 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Knock Off does about the same with or without Eviolite, so yeah...

 

[Mew2]

One Pokemon I'd like to bring up is Doublade for S rank. To be honest right off the bat, Doublade can tear through unprepared teams like they're nothing if left unchecked. Many skilled players know this, seeing as it's pretty high in the upper usage stats. I've been testing Doublade a lot lately myself, and honestly I think it deserves the top spot after seeing what it can do. For starters, Doublade has a very nice 110 Attack, and can also set up a Swords Dance or two on a vast portion of the tier to further boost it. After that, it can rip through teams, able to take hits with a godlike 150 Eviolite boosted Defense and give back with boosted Iron Heads and Shadow Claws/Sneaks. Speaking of bulk, it can take just about every physical hit in the tier, bar a few more powerful SE moves, and even some of those. On top of that, a lot the common solutions to Doublade aren't even always that good. Knock Off may seem like a decent solution to both hit it super effectively and take away its Eviolite, but it can often bulk a hit and return a harder one. Shadow Sneak takes away Doublade's speed issue, hitting faster, frailer mons like Delphox hard after a boost, and many walls are already slower than Doublade anyways, including Aromatisse, Slowking, and Bronzong, all of which it can hit super effectively. Baby Smogon Sword for S Rank.

You said that Doublade can tear appart unprepared teams and you're right, that's why every skilled player has a method of dealing with him and that's why he won't sweep as easy as you think. Also he lacks recovery and he is weak to common attacking types like Ground, Fire, Ghost and Dark so he will get crippled by Knock off, a move that the most common spinblocker in the tier (Hitmonlee) always carries and with medicore special defense Doublade won't last long without his precious Eviolite. Finally I want to talk about your "relevant calcs"; destroying physically frail pokemon with super effective STABS (Delphox and Slowking) isn't special and Drapion can have E-que or Crunch as coverage moves meaning that Doublade will often lose 1 V 1 to Drapion and Doublade can't set up on Slowking nor Bronzong. So I think that A+ is fine for Doublade imo; great mon but he lacks recovery, weak to comon attacking types and is slow.

 

[Leer]

You said that Doublade can tear appart unprepared teams and you're right, that's why every skilled player has a method of dealing with him and that's why he won't sweep as easy as you think. Also he lacks recovery and he is weak to common attacking types like Ground, Fire, Ghost and Dark so he will get crippled by Knock off, a move that the most common spinblocker in the tier (Hitmonlee) always carries and with medicore special defense Doublade won't last long without his precious Eviolite. Finally I want to talk about your "relevant calcs"; destroying physically frail pokemon with super effective STABS (Delphox and Slowking) isn't special and Drapion can have E-que or Crunch as coverage moves meaning that Doublade will often lose 1 V 1 to Drapion and Doublade can't set up on Slowking nor Bronzong. So I think that A+ is fine for Doublade imo; great mon but he lacks recovery, weak to comon attacking types and is slow.

I already adressed Knock Off and other weaknesses, as it has immense bulk, and the pokemon you mentioned, Hitmonlee, is frail enough to get OHKO'd or 2HKO'd with Shadow Sneak (phone so no calcs). It's also pretty bulky without evio, which I think I mentioned, and has more than enough resists to make up for the few weaknesses. Delphox is relwvant because it's a common fire type and often brought in on Doublade to KO it and I was showing it can be killed by baby sword. Slowking often comes in because it's bulky and has FB so people think it can kill Doulade but it can't. Drapion's EQ is weaker than its Knock Off and lol Crunch. And idk what you mean it can't set up on Bronzong becaue EQ is weak af on Doublade. My points still stand, Doublade for S.

 

[Mew2]

And the pokemon you mentioned, Hitmonlee, is frail enough to get OHKO'd or 2HKO'd with Shadow Sneak

252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hitmonlee: 106-126 (43.8 - 52%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO
I hope you get that 11.7% luck also who sends a hitmonlee into Doublade lol?

Delphox is relwvant because it's a common fire type and often brought in on Doublade to KO it and I was showing it can be killed by baby sword. Slowking often comes in because it's bulky and has FB so people think it can kill Doulade but it can't.

Send me ONE link of one skilled player bringing a Slowking or Delphox into a +2 Doublade.... good luck finding one and shitty ladder players don't count.

Drapion's EQ is weaker than its Knock Off and lol Crunch.

The calculator disagrees:
252+ Atk Drapion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Doublade: 132-156 (40.9 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Drapion Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Doublade: 128-152 (39.7 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Drapion Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Doublade: 158-188 (49 - 58.3%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO

EDIT: Btw all of this calculations aren't even made with the correct Doublade ev spread. Doublade doesn't run max hp, it runs 44 Spe evs to outspeed Rhyperior iirc.

 

[Molk]

Alright, call me crazy here, but i actually think that Hitmonlee could justifiably be moved down to A+ rank in the current metagame.

Don't get me wrong, Hitmonlee is still an excellent wallbreaker, Rapid Spinner, and general offensive Pokemon, but looking at how the metagame has changed in the past few weeks or so i think its fallen a bit from S rank for a few reasons, listed below.

1) The departure of Shuckle

One of the reasons Hitmonlee was so powerful early on was because of the incredible support Shuckle provided it in both round 1 and round 2. One of Hitmonlee's main problems is its decent but not great Speed stat (talking about this more later). With the reliable Sticky Web Shuckle could set though, Hitmonlee outsped pretty much every grounded Pokemon and had no real problem simply charging through a large amount of teams. Hitmonlee no longer has this consistent advantage though, since Shuckle has left the tier and the other Sticky Web setters, while usable, simply aren't as reliable.

2) Awkward Speed Tier.

As mentioned above, Hitmonlee's Speed tier is kinda awkward and often lets it down a bit. Hitmonlee might be able to smash pretty much anything slower than it, but because of that really annoying Speed tier which puts it at a decent range but just below some really common RU threats such as Yanmega and Moltres, it often ends up getting outsped and revenged killed when fighting things such as Offense/Bulky Offense/some balanced teams.

3) Frailty

It's a pretty well known fact Hitmonlee is pretty frail, especially on the physical side. When it comes to taking physical hits, Hitmonlee has a very very hard time switching into anything with a physical attack or even stomaching resisted priority moves (+2 Zoroark Sucker Punch OHKOs iirc lol). This frailty makes it quite annoying to get Hitmonlee into the match a lot of the time, and it often has to come in after a KO or on a predicted double switch. Not just that, but it ties into the point above, that even if the opponent *doesnt* have anything faster than Hitmonlee, they can still take it out before it does too much damage if they have a form of priority, just as long as they can take a Mach Punch.

4) Metagame shifts

In my personal opinion, the metagame has shifted around a bit and people are more prepared to take on Hitmonlee's powerful High Jump Kicks, whether on an offensive or defensive team. Offensive teams are starting to use really threatening Flying-types such as Moltres and YANMEGA more often (the latter is especially important since it 4x resists HJK lol), that can help check Hitmonlee and can't be revenge killed by its Mach Punch at all. Not just that, but DOUBLADE is a very common threat regardless of playstyle in the current metagame, and spinblocks Hitmonlee pretty well even if its Eviolite gets removed. When it comes to more defensive/stally teams, there are still plenty of options, some of which were common even in past metas and some of which are getting rerecognized now. These Pokemon include but aren't limited to Physically defensive Aromatisse (don't give me flac about not being able to run specially defensive aroma to beat Hitmonlee, honestly i actually like Aroma better as a physically defensive mon if i can afford it, especially considering fairy is actually a lot better as a physically defensive type than a specially defensive one), Physically defensive Amoonguss, Gligar (rip Eviolite though), Qwilfish, Weezing, Golbat (rip eviolite again lol), physically defensive varients of Cresselia, Spiritomb, and more. Some of these are more niche than others, but they all have one thing in common: they have effective uses outside of simply beating Hitmonlee, and make a good choice on a team whether they're specifically weak to the kicking fiend or not. At least some of these (Aroma, Gligar, Amoonguss) are pretty easy to fit on Balanced/Stall teams too, at least imo.

So, do you think this is enough of a reason to demote Hitmonlee to A+? Do you have anything to add? If not, why do you think it should stay in S?

EDIT: also why did you guys spend a whole page talking about frogadier .__.

 

[Kyuzeth]

I completely agree with Hitmonlee moving down to A+. There's nothing I can really add, Molk, since you've already stated pretty much everything that's wrong with it. Hitmonlee is too frail and too predictable to still be an S-Rank Pokémon, though it remains really solid, still. All in all, Hitmonlee should drop to A+.

 

[Cowtao]

I agree with this change. Burd spam is really popular right now with Fletch and Braviary also in the mix. People are also starting to look at walls that can prevent a 3HKO from Lee's HJK such as Aromatisse (Physically Defensive), Gligar, and Amoonguss. It's defense and typing just leaves so much of a gap for Lee that it can be revenge killed by a pokemon that's healthy and can live one hit. I'm fine with moving Hitmonlee down to A+

 

[Leer]

252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hitmonlee: 106-126 (43.8 - 52%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO
I hope you get that 11.7% luck also who sends a hitmonlee into Doublade lol?

I meant Shadow Claw and then Shadow Sneak if it didn't die immediately to claw.

 

[Hoping4megasceptile]

252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hitmonlee: 106-126 (43.8 - 52%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO
I hope you get that 11.7% luck also who sends a hitmonlee into Doublade lol?

Well, considering hitmonlee usually carries a life orb, wouldn't it only need to hit for a total of 90% to kill it, and if hitmonlee survives, he'll be killed after the second round of recoil.

 

[EonX]

Hitmonlee: As strong as Hitmonlee is, I completely agree with this move. The metagame isn't as kind to Hitmonlee as it was a round or two ago as the ban of Sticky Web has allowed balanced teams to flourish, particularly ones that utilize Physically Defensive Aromatisse (seriously, I've been advocating this since late beta stage...) which is a near complete stop to Hitmonlee. Other Pokemon, such as Doublade, Yanmega, Moltres, and Fletchinder can easily check Hitmonlee due to their resistance (or immunity in Doublade's case) to HJK. Faster Pokemon, such as Durant, Delphox, and the aforementioned Yanmega and Moltres also make life difficult for Hitmonlee. Hitmonlee also has a fairly difficult time switching in due to its overall frailty and susceptibility to status from walls it could otherwise switch in on. Hitmonlee is still the best offensive spinner in the tier, and still has the same tools that made it S rank in earlier stages, but the recent bans and metagame shifts have simply been unkind to Lee and, imo, make it A+ rank.

 

[Ningildo]

Look, I'm all for hyping up Doublade, as it probably is the most safe win condition in the tier if you can remove it's checks/counters due solid power on its moves (that don't miss) and is extremely bulky. However, there are many offensive mons that hard check it (Moltres, Exploud and others) and quite a few walls that stop it too (Tangrowth, pink gay fish, Gligar etc.), which means that Doublade will NEVER sweep a good team right off the bat, as all of them will have at least one of these pokemon. It's reliance on both Sneak and Eviolite present issues, such as being unable to bypass faster, Ghost resistant mons (a lot) that hit on the special side (still a fair bit) and being VERY annoyed by Knock Off, which while almost never being a KO from anything, makes it much easier to bust through. No Guard is also a crappy ability for it, as it gets burned by wisp every time, can get trolled by pro af Sing Cincinno and so on. It's a very great mon and in all honesty, one of my personal favorites to use, but it doesn't have the extremely limited amount of answers that most if not all S rank mons have, is really easy to wear down and will always need to take a hit to dish the hardest ones in can back.

 

[atomicllamas]

Rotom-S is an Electric-type pokemon that has basically none of the flaws of the other Electric-types, since it is an electric type that beats Virizion, and while it has trouble with some of the ground types, literally the only one that is fine with taking a Will-o-Wisp is Gastrodon, as the rest are crippled for the entirety of the match.

Ya Rotom-S should be D rank, it is generally outclassed by MowTom but it has some distinct advantages (it beats Virizion and has better defensive typing). Rotom-S is also cute.

 

[Teddeh]

With Hitmonchan and Claydol doing absolutely nothing in this tier with an E ranking... Send them to NU please? I mean, they're awful and NU needs more spinners.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

With Hitmonchan and Claydol doing absolutely nothing in this tier with an E ranking... Send them to NU please? I mean, they're awful and NU needs more spinners.

We don't make the tiers. These tiers are based off of usage. If the ladder were a lot more competent, both would probably be NU. The only way they will, however, is if people stop using them and they fall under 3.41% usage.

Anyways, I find Hitmonlee kinda underwhelming imo. While it hits super hard it's pretty frail imo and is hard to get into the battle. It's reliant on some prediction to function or it could lose, since HJK's side effect can be catastrophic. Knock Off isn't that strong, and those that get hit neutrally by it and resist HJK can take in on rather well (ie, Moltres, Yanmega). Fairies also wall it (ie Aromatisse), as do Gligar and Golbat even without their Eviolite. I also find it rather slow so it's easy to deal with, even though it has Mach Punch, it's weak so it won't take out a full HP faster mon except for Cinccino and Heliolisk. It's still pretty good but A+ is more appropriate imo.

Molk EDIT: i seriously wish i could do exactly this.

 

[Molk]

Alright, update time!

Updates

Klinklang moved up to C- rank
Frogadier added to D rank (might make this unranked again, not really sure why it needs one ._.)
Masquerain added to D rank
Hitmonlee moved down to A+ rank
Rotom-S added to C+ rank

Looking for more discussion on Doublade and Piloswine, especially the former since i think its kinda borderline. Personally i definitely think Piloswine could warrant a rank of some form, i'd just like to know where you guys think it should be. The advantages it has over Rhyperior include Ice Shard, a resistance to Ice-type moves, the ability to beat most common defoggers 1v1, and only being 2x weak to hidden power grass and hidden power water instead of 4x weak.

 

[Bouff]

iunno if you forgot about it or you just waited for me to do it molk but i dont see kricketune on that list,,,

Nominating Kricketune for C- to C+.

i know i keep nominating stupid shit to be on this list but kricketune actually has a good amount of niches over other SW users such as Leavanny that warrant it a spot on the viab rankings. First off, it has a much less limited movepool than the likes of Leavanny, and can have a lot more utility due to its access to moves such as Taunt and Knock Off. Secondly, while 65 base Speed certainly isn't amazing, it's more than enough to let it outspeed and Taunt common Defog users, such as Golbat and Gligar. Lastly, it can surprisingly soften up a good amount of the tier provided its faster and is brought down to its Sash (or if it just uses it right off the bat in the case of faster mons such as Delphox) thanks to its access to Endeavor, making it much easier for a mon with priority, such as Hitmonlee or Doublade, to check it either as soon as Kricketune dies or later on in the match. I've used this thing a ton and it's hilariously good, and really shouldn't be overlooked when looking for SW users (better than Masquerain smh...)

also gonna make a few other noms which may or may not be controversial which i will edit into this post later.

 

[phantom]

Aromatisse should move up to A+. Certain Pokemon such as Druddigon and Hitmonlee run moves to specifically draw in and take out Aromatisse (Gunk Shot and Poison Jab, respectively), which showcases its existing dominance in this meta. Furthermore, I can confidently say that Aromatisse and Alomomola are what make stall in XY RU good. Stall pretty much hinges on their existence to function as well as it does now, and quite frankly, I don't see a reason as to why Alomomola should be A+ and not Aromatisse when it holds the same level of influence and is actually far more common on stall builds these days. Aromatisse also possesses a phenomenal ability that blocks Taunt and Encore, which on its own, invalidates the use of Taunt + Wisp stallbreakers seen in past gens / metagames. Oh, and it can Wish Pass, act as a cleric, stallbreak with CM, and has great all-around bulk, has one of the best defensive typings in the game, and can simultaneously act as a solid check if not counter to the two current suspect worthy Pokemon in the tier. We all know Yanmega and Zoroark are gonna be on the chopping block, it's just a matter of when at this point.

So yeah, the best Fairy-type in RU should be in A+. n_n

 

[complete legitimacy]

Doublade is S.

 

[ForgottenOnes]

Doublade is S.

i agree with this. doublade has fucking crazy defenses and special defense with eviolite. It can set up and start sweeping teams like its nothing. imo good pokemon

 

[Mew2]

i agree with this. doublade has fucking crazy defenses and special defense with eviolite. It can set up and start sweeping teams like its nothing. imo good pokemon

I don’t know what is sadder; the fact that you can’t realize he is joking (I hope he is) or the fact that we JUST argued about THOSE EXACT points about Doublade. Quoting myself:

You said that Doublade can tear appart unprepared teams and you're right, that's why every skilled player has a method of dealing with him and that's why he won't sweep as easy as you think. Also he lacks recovery and he is weak to common attacking types like Ground, Fire, Ghost and Dark so he will get crippled by Knock off, a move that the most common spinblocker in the tier (Hitmonlee) always carries and with medicore special defense Doublade won't last long without his precious Eviolite. Finally I want to talk about your "relevant calcs"; destroying physically frail pokemon with super effective STABS (Delphox and Slowking) isn't special and Drapion can have E-que or Crunch as coverage moves meaning that Doublade will often lose 1 V 1 to Drapion and Doublade can't set up on Slowking nor Bronzong. So I think that A+ is fine for Doublade imo; great mon but he lacks recovery, weak to comon attacking types and is slow.

 

[complete legitimacy]

I was serious.

 

[Leer]

I don’t know what is sadder; the fact that you can’t realize he is joking (I hope he is) or the fact that we JUST argued about THOSE EXACT points about Doublade. Quoting myself:

Didn't I already reply to your points?

Still saying Doublade for S

 

[Mew2]

I was serious.

Then I feel sorry for you.

EDIT: Leer didn't I told you to look for a battle were Delphox switches into a +2 Doublade? I think I did.

 

[FAJI]

Then I feel sorry for you.

who are you to say that..