Other Pokemon: Smogon Version OU [Route 4]

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If Bulbapedia is correct, it starts with Tackle, Disable and Foresight, and I wanted to use Disable as it could force switches if you only have one attacking move. I've removed Foresight as you won't have a Ghost type yet, and the move is pretty useless on anything without Rapid Spin. Screech is an egg move. I was also considering the same set with Toxic Spikes over Screech, although that might be a bit too much. Charmander gets Ember at Level 7, and although I haven't calced, I assume that without the Occa Berry, it would OHKO.
Alright, thanks for looking. :D

And after looking through a few of the games forest's, the amount of trainers in them can range from 3-5 and I believe if we go 5 trainers (four bug/trainers and 1 Luck Sack Grunt) we'll hit a good amount of viable XP trainer wise here. So 4 available trainers and 1 luck sack grunt. What do they all use? You decide!
 
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SparksBlade

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TLS grunt must have moody bidoof, as it will make it clear that sheer luck doesn't win battles. One kid could have the caterpies/weedle stuff(maybe caterpi, weedle, wurmple, scatterbug) while the others should have atleast decent teams
 
Not sure about their Pokemon, but when you beat one of them they could give you a Sitrus/Lum Berry
(You called them Forest Kids, so i figured, lol).
 
Not sure about their Pokemon, but when you beat one of them they could give you a Sitrus/Lum Berry
(You called them Forest Kids, so i figured, lol).
Sorry, didn't want to flat out call em Bug Catcher's cause didn't know what all the suggestions would be. Just call em trainers to clear up the confusion then if it persists xD
 
For movepools, I think we should be allowed to give trainers access to weaker egg moves at the start of the game, as well as TMs after the first gym, especially as you start with a perfect EV spread on your starter pokemon. If we stick to only level up moves, then the first few routes aren't going to be very interesting or strategic.

This proposal might be against the spirit of the game (in that it's not a set you'd ever run competitively), but a set like this could make an early trainer battle more interesting. Any thoughts?

Venonat @ Occa Berry
Ability: Compound Eyes
Adamant Nature
- Disable
- Tackle
- Screech
0 SpA level 7 Charmander Ember vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD level 5 Venonat: 14-18 (63.6 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

OHKOs are super rare early game due to the low BP of early game moves.

Slashari

No Azuril is not a water type but Thick Fat and water gun give it psudo-water typing so close enough. Bulbasaur will still beat it easily (now that I think about it, bulbasaur has a pretty good macthup againt all three of them, frick). Fleching.... yeah I don't have an excuse for that one. #CriticalResearchFailure
I'll have to lampshade this in the trainer's loss quote, as that would be far more interesting then simply saying "oops, not strong enough". I still like the team.

SparksBlade The only time I've ever lost to NPCs was in battle tower, and they definitely do have victory quotes. That being said, if we don't want victory quotes in the main game, that's fine too.

For movepools, I think we should be allowed to give trainers access to weaker egg moves at the start of the game, as well as TMs after the first gym, especially as you start with a perfect EV spread on your starter pokemon. If we stick to only level up moves, then the first few routes aren't going to be very interesting or strategic.

This proposal might be against the spirit of the game (in that it's not a set you'd ever run competitively), but a set like this could make an early trainer battle more interesting. Any thoughts?

Venonat @ Occa Berry
Ability: Compound Eyes
Adamant Nature
- Disable
- Tackle
- Screech
I don't see too much wrong with early game egg moves or TM moves (for example, the TLS bidoof uses protect, which he gets via TM obv), but not too early. The player isn't going to have many options, so if we start throwing around stuff like, say, subs disable gastly around, the player might find himself in a rather tough spot. I personally suggest we keep it simple for the first forest and focus on teaching the player how to build a solid foundation, then we can start throwing gimmicks at him (because that's exactly what screech + disable venonat is, a gimmick).

*edit*

In fact, we could even call it Simple Woods if we wanted to (still slightly disappointed that the second town wasn't called Flehmbuddy Town, but whatever)
 
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Not sure about their Pokemon, but when you beat one of them they could give you a Sitrus/Lum Berry
(You called them Forest Kids, so i figured, lol).
Please please please, let's call them Cabbage Patch Kids. Or Berry Bush Kids, if copyright's a problem.

Anyways, we need to have an idea about the forest and what aspects of the game are introduced in it. Remember Eterna Woods in D/P/Pt where you team up with Cheryl? I have an idea for that, but first let's talk about something this Forest should be known for: Berries.

As we know, Berries can play a large role in competitive play, but we never really see them used in a play-through since most people can't be bothered to farm up a backlog of berries for every goddamn battle. What I have in mind are two items: A Key Item called the Berry Breeder, and a held item called the Bottomless Berry Bag. Yay alliteration! The Berry Breeder has a slot for every berry in the game, and the kicker is that it creates 1 berry of every occupied slot every 512 or 1024 steps. This is just a placeholder number, so you can change it to anything for balance purposes. The Bottomless Berry Bag is linked to the Berry of your choice in the Berry Breeder, and a Pokemon can hold the bag to gain use of the selected Berry in the bag once per battle. This allows players to try out things like SubSalac or other strategies without running low on supplies, and having infuriating downtime between usage of said strategies. I suppose you can also have a separate tab in the Berry Breeder that allows you to cross-breed Berries, with the same mechanics as those in XY.

Now, how do we get this item as related to the story?

We will get this pouch in a certain grotto (not Hidden Grotto like BW2) that can be found near the beginning of the forest. Within this certain 'secret' area, you find a colourful clearing, filled with Berry Bushes and Berry Trees of nearly every type. In the middle is a giant pile of berries, and 3 Munchlaxes playing around it. Smack in the middle of the pile is...well, whaddaya know, it's our first Gym Leader, making snow angels in the berries, having the time of her life. (Gender is irrelevant here, but I figured it'd work better with a female Gym Leader.) Upon getting close enough, she gets up with a start.

"Aww crap. Hey look, kid, this is...this is nothing you should be worried about. Just turn around and pretend you didn't see anything.
...Pretty please?...
...Hey, don't give me that look! Being a gym leader's hard work! As a Gym Leader, you're not just the head of the Gym, you're also a mentor! Do you have any idea how many people try to battle me and ask me for help choosing their team? Do you know how many people chat me up on my IRC for battling tips? I deserve some time off! Fine, if you don't tell anybody, I'll give you a sweet new pair of items." [YES/NO PROMPT]

[Choice of NO]: "If word gets around that I spend my free time frolicking in berries like a Munchlax, I will end you. When you come for that badge, I swear I'll use my personal team instead of the Gym-sanctioned one." [LOOP PROMPT UNTIL CHOICE OF YES]

[Choice of YES]: "Good. Here's a Berry Breeder and a Bottomless Berry Bag. [Items get!] Put a bunch of Berries in the breeder and watch them grow as you walk. You can select a type of Berry with that bag and let your Pokemon hold it. As long as you have a stock of Berries, you never have to re-give your Pokemon the same Berry! Useful, huh? If you want berries, you should look around this clearing. There's plenty."

Around the clearing, there should be many accessible Berry Bushes that you can farm up. Perhaps, for inventory's sake, you can provide 10 of each berry from each pick-up. As for what kinds of berries, we can choose quite a few. Sitrus, Lum, Yache, Occa, Shuca, Chople, Chesto, Salac, the list goes on. I'm not sure which berries are most competitively common other than Sitrus, Lum and Chesto, so I'll rely on feedback from you guys for that.

Upon trying to leave the clearing after talking to Gym Leader (whose name has not been decided): "I should be heading back to the Gym anyways. Mind if I tag along? Ah, who am I kidding, you don't get a choice." [Bossy Gym Leader chick joins your party!] "Hey, I heard you call me that! Hmph, see if I go easy on you for your badge."

This is also a good place to give a quick peek into Doubles, although it may not be a very intuitive peek. Perhaps have some of the Double Battles be Pineco and Ferroseed with Protect and some attacks. If Pineco gets Selfdestruct or Explosion that early or something, it can show you the negative effects of spread moves in Doubles as well. If you meet Team Luck-Sack in this forest as well, we can make it a Double-Bidoof Moody Protect Bonanza (tm).

Upon leaving the forest, and reaching the next city: "I don't wanna see another Protect for a good, long while. Anyways, we're here! You heal your buddies back up and see me in the Gym. I'll be waiting for that challenge!"
 
Trade Pokemon could evolve with how they're used in competitive battling.

"Scyther must learn Swords Dance and sweep an opponents team 6-0 to evolve." (doesn't have to be 6-0)

In the forest we should have Trainers (2-3 of them) that have Pokemon strong for EV training against the wild encounters and good match-up against bug type Pokemon. Say, one of them has Modest/Solar Power/Sunny Day Charmander. A few wild options for this would be Sunkern and Oddish, as they give Sp.A EV's to help this Charmander.
Going off this idea, I think we could have, say, in the third or fourth gym town, maybe an evolution hut or something. The idea is that, instead of just sweeping any team 6-0 to evolve (sounds annoying and difficult to program, to be honest), this place has little minigame challenges that will let you try out trade evo pokemon, and you have to beat these challenges to evolve. The Scyther challenge, for instance, will be a team that Scyther (or maybe Scizor?) can sweep if you play it correctly. We could just create a team, lock the levels of your team and their team, and say that Scyther needs to get at least 2 KOs in this battle to evolve. Or maybe we could create a test challenge where we give you rental pokemon, one of them a Scizor, and you have to face a team relatively weak to this Scizor and keep it alive until the end of the battle to win. This would make this idea a bit less arbitrary and a bit easier to quantify.

It could be a nice teaching exercise. Stronger trade evolutions (like Scizor) could be in these challenge huts later in the game than weaker ones.
 
Going off this idea, I think we could have, say, in the third or fourth gym town, maybe an evolution hut or something. The idea is that, instead of just sweeping any team 6-0 to evolve (sounds annoying and difficult to program, to be honest), this place has little minigame challenges that will let you try out trade evo pokemon, and you have to beat these challenges to evolve. The Scyther challenge, for instance, will be a team that Scyther (or maybe Scizor?) can sweep if you play it correctly. We could just create a team, lock the levels of your team and their team, and say that Scyther needs to get at least 2 KOs in this battle to evolve. Or maybe we could create a test challenge where we give you rental pokemon, one of them a Scizor, and you have to face a team relatively weak to this Scizor and keep it alive until the end of the battle to win. This would make this idea a bit less arbitrary and a bit easier to quantify.

It could be a nice teaching exercise. Stronger trade evolutions (like Scizor) could be in these challenge huts later in the game than weaker ones.
So, kinda like the Trick House from RSE. I can see that working, and 2 KOs by the pre-evolved Pokemon sounds more reasonable than 6-0'ing a team. Personally, I wouldn't mind if we could just use items like Metal Coat in the same manner as evolution stones, but if we decide to move away from item-based evolutions to replace trade evos, then this is good too.
 
OverlordDerp

I friggen love the idea of the bossy first gym leader character. However, I think it's a tad bit early for us to be doing an entire double battle dungeon ala teamups in DPP. I see nothing wrong with her teaming up with you to crush the first TLS grunt though.

As for the whole challenge idea, has anyone here played Pokemon XD? Basically, they had these disks that you could turn in to a coliseum (forget the name, that really futuristic towery one with level 40-ish mons). Basically each disk was a sort of challenge situation where you faced a premade team with your own premade team under certain circumstances. For example, one challenge had you 1v1 a medicham with a blissey, and another one had you facing 2 chanseys with protect with two slaking and an exploud with roar and nothing else. I definitely would not want to try to do this in the main game.

Here's my personal idea for the challenge:

Wobbuffet @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Counter
- Mirror Coat
- Destiny Bond

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite

vs.

Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge

Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Crunch

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Dazzling Gleam
- Focus Blast

Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Psychic

Mienshao @ Life Orb
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Knock Off

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Naughty Nature
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor

The leads are fixed, and the enemy will always try to SD fearing deh counter.

*edit*

The reward for completing this challenge is ofc the metal coat, which works like a stone.
 
I think that there should be a mini-route between the town and the forest. We haven't had ANY minor NPC battles yet I think (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm being lazy and not re-reading the thread >.>) and there are normally a good few before the forest. If we did have a route before the forest it would probably have 2-3 trainers.

Did we ever introduce type advantages? If we added some bugz to this route and have some sort of thing with a level 10 Fletchling (the level it learns Peck, its first flying move) we could show something. Or maybe that's too basic.

Either way the unfortunate thing is that most viable bugs are like Pinsir, Heracross, and Scizor, in that they don't have a lame starting form, creating a bit of a power imbalance this early on. Shroomish seems a good choice, maybe Venonat, Foongus, Venipede? Tympole? It depends on what the forest's like. Is it a dry forest, wet, haunted, bright and sunny, on fire? I suppose the question is what do we need in terms of making a viable team from the forest.
Maybe we could have one of these three: Scyther, Herracross, or Pinsir as a very rare Pokemon that appears in the grass. I would probably choose Scyther because we can control when it evolves and it doesn't have moxie, guts or intimidate.

This is not a proposal - just discussion
 
Can be a proposal. They are both fearsome mons later on in the game yet finding a way to make Pinsir harder to access would be ideal imo as it can be more readily spammed early compared to Scyther who even if made Scizor, still cant access its best move of Bullet Punch unless re-taught.
 

Karxrida

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Scyther is probably a good choice since it's one of the most powerful NFE Mons and an Eviolite can carry it through the game until you can evolve it.
 

Chou Toshio

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NO DOUBLES IN THE OU SINGLES AREA


Sorry I've let this thread go so far-- been super busy moving into my new apartment and stuff.

Anyway, Route two:

Route two is a short, coastal area that leads up to our first dungeon (a bug and grass forest). It will have some influence from both ocean and forest, and quite a diversity of Pokemon.

Coastal Grass
-fletchling
-azurril
2 different land-walking water types (think crustacean or shellfish, etc. anything that can stay on land, not a fish, jellyfish, those types)
(Non-water type coastal mons are also thinkable-- think pseudo-water types like Stunfisk except viable)

Forest influenced Grass
-Fletchling
-Starly
-Bunnelby
1 bug type (probably venopede, but free to argue for other)
1 grass type (shroomish seems to have a lot of following, but feel free to propose other.
1 other bug or plant (so 3 bug/plant pokes in total)

Surf / Fishing Mons (not accessible by player yet)
Ocean set of mons

Alright, that's enough about general outlay-- want to do more but even this I'm doing on my smart phone on my way to next errand. Begin discussion on Route 2 please!
 
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Da Pizza Man

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Scyther is probably a good choice since it's one of the most powerful NFE Mons and an Eviolite can carry it through the game until you can evolve it.
Getting a Scyther that early in the game is pretty broken, we should probably wait until we get past the first gym before we give players these types of pokes

Pokemon Proposal

Route 2
Coastal Grass Land Walking Water type
Slowpoke
Level: 4-7

Slowbro is a very nice stall Poke. Its got Regenerator as an ability which is pretty helpful and its high defense really can help it out in some situations. It can run a nice slack off set or it can run a assault vest regenerator set. Slowbro is a very nice pokemon and giving players access to Slowpoke early game would help them out a lot
 
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Chou Toshio

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Slowpoke/bro also have pretty decent offensive stats and lots of special and physical coverage options to choose from. In short, they're stall oriented Pokemon ALSO pretty good for clearing in-game areas (unlike a Chansey or Amoongus).
 

a fairy

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Pokemon Proposal
Route 2
Shroomish
Forest Influenced Grass
Level 4-7

Breloom is a force in the metagame, however not to the level that others are, meaning giving it at Route #, where massive options like Tyranitar are non-existent, give the player a bigger incentive to try it out, where they otherwise might not. Shroomish is also a decent Pokemon to see in the beginning, as it has a far larger "Route #" vibe then something like Beldum, Scyther, and Larvitar do.
 
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Pokemon Proposal
Route 1
Shroomish
Forest Influenced Grass
Level 4-7

Breloom is a force in the metagame, however not to the level that others are, meaning giving it at Route 1, where massive options like Tyranitar are non-existent, give the player a bigger incentive to try it out, where they otherwise might not. Shroomish is also a decent Pokemon to see in the beginning, as it has a far larger "Route 1" vibe then something like Beldum, Scyther, and Larvitar do.

........Route 2 :D
 

SparksBlade

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WebBowser said:
SparksBlade The only time I've ever lost to NPCs was in battle tower, and they definitely do have victory quotes. That being said, if we don't want victory quotes in the main game, that's fine too.
well i was pretty shit when i started playing and i remember normal NPCs(like the bug-kids) don't say anything after winning
 
Really wanted to try submitting a trainer........but eh, ill go for Venipede.

Pokémon Proposal
Venipede
Bug Type spot in Forest

With useful typing and great ability in Speed Boost, we can abuse a nice mon that is very iinfluential later on while early it can debate between cleaning or boosting its own defenses soonish with Iron Defense, making it a very nice all purpose mon for the teams this early on.
 
Pokemon proposal
Route 2
Coastal grass land walking water type
Lotad
Level 4-7

Lotad is a decent early game water type and early evolution ( Level 14 Lombre is early ) helps. On it's own Ludicolo is a decent rain sweeper and could be the start of a rain oriented team.
 
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