An Aussie travelling to Europe - First Time, Help Needed!

[MikeAU]

Hello Everyone!

As the title suggests, I'm heading to EU (Rome/Italy/France/London/Netherlands/Switzerland) next year and would appreciate some advice (preferably from locals -- if any stumble across this! Or even those who have gone there before).

I am still finalising destinations with my friend who i'm travelling with, so as I go i'll update this thread so as not to waste peoples time with somewhere I haven't gone. At this stage, we're expecting 4-4.5 weeks.

SO here we go:

General questions:

1. Of the countries listed above, how connected are they? I.e. I can see that there are train-lines (Eurostar?) and services but how reliable are they? Personally, I don't like flying .period. and inter-country transfer, i'd prefer buses and trains occasionally.
2. London: Never been there and I don't really have expectations, however as our entry to EU is London (ex Dubai) we figured, lets stay there 2 days to get used to timezone (you guys are on almost an exact opposite timezone) and English is the primary language. Due to currency conversion, I'd probably not hang around in London too long as the exchange rate from AUD-GBP is quite unforgiving, whereas the Euro is a bit kinder.

Italy/Rome

This is where the bulk of our time will be, i've dreamed for years about going here... spent all night planning and currently feel a bit overwhelmed.

It is a fairly ambitious schedule, however, the time in Florence should be enough to hire a car to visit Siena and Monteriggioni/San Gimignano. I'd appreciate some thoughts on order as well.

Rome: 3 nights
Venice: 2 nights
Florence: 3 nights
Also, looking to do this tour: fairly cheap for the number of days, and will be slightly more relaxing. http://www.intrepidtravel.com/italy/rome-amalfi-70527

Happy for these to be 12hour, jam packed days in Rome, as we will be doing the 8 day bus tour thing which we'll have some down-time on the coach, etc.

Appreciate any and all thoughts on the above -- that's all I have for now, France to follow shortly!

Peace, out.
Mike

 

[Cresselia~~]

Trains and flights in London often delay.
Trains also have a possibility of being cancelled.
Aim for the more expensive ticket that allows you to get on any train as long as the destination matches.

Can't really help you for the rest of Europe.

 

[His Eminence Lord Poppington II]

I just got back to Brisbane from London yesterday. For inter-country travel within Europe I recommend megabus. It's the most reasonable, and has universal specials every Tuesday or Wednesday (I forget). I used it to go to Rotterdam on return for around 50 pounds. London is really cool, man. The music scene is considerably less homogeneous than the Australian; food and alcohol is cheaper and more widely available; the parks are numerous and enormous; drugs are everywhere (if that's ur jam). Only downside is right now they're experiencing one of the hottest summers ever, apparently. It was in the mid 30s (C) at one point when I was there.

 

[Cherub Agent]

If you have any questions about florence in particular hmu, i've lived there for nine years and it was an absolute blast

 

[destinyunknown]

I were to Venice last summer for ~4 days so if you have any specific questions ask me. I'll try to remember as many things as I can.

Switzerland: I have been to Bern, Luzern, Zurich and Geneva, and the best way to travel inside the country is by train. It depends on how many places you plan to visit on Switzerland but iirc there was some sort of special ticket to use as many swiss trains as you want, might be worth checking. A warning about Switzerland: it's really expensive. Not sure if the change from AUD to CHF is good or bad but regardless, everything in Switzerland is more expensive than in other countries, food included. It was more noticeable in Zurich iirc, in the rest of cities it was easier to find food for an okay price.

 

[VanguardSoul]

Europe is VERY connected, you can take trains all around it especially in the more tourist attracting countries (Britain, France, Spain, Italy, even Switzerland) so transport tends to be easy in all ways. Personal tip? Don't trust the black guys with the African accents trying to sell you merchandise on the streets near popular monuments (ex: Eiffel Tower) they're illegal immigrants who actually just rip you off. Lol I had fun with them they know how to party

 

[MikeAU]

Wow thanks everyone for your responses.

Cherub Agent - certainly will hit you up for more definite information once i've sorted it out. Does the itenerary (rough-list) of things listed above practical with the time periods? Also, how accessible is Monteriggioni/San Gimignano from Florence? Preferably not by driving, lol.

gookie - thanks for the tips re: London. Certainly not interested in their...substance offerings... and will probably have 2 days at start of trip, 2 at the end. Temperature wise, the hotter the better. I am comfortable in anything up to 45C, 35C is comfortable!

DestinyUnknown - with Venice, if you stay somewhere in Venice (or within a stones throw) can you see most of the stuff within 3 days? The itenerary i've posted in my OP has most of the stuff (mainly basilica's, buildings, architecture and St Marks). Happy to wonder around and relax a little here to break up the trip! Re Switzerland, its a 'maybe' at this stage. But that is great to know!

 

[Cherub Agent]

You'll probably need a whole day for the uffizi, but ponte vecchio, the duomo (santa maria del fiore) can be done together while walking around town, and just general exploring. Id recommend doing piazzale michelangelo and san miniato together, since they're close by and offer gorgeous views of the city (best places to take photos imo). For getting to san giminiano, the best way is by taking a bus (one stop in poggibonsi) and from san giminiano its also a direct drive to siena. But yeah your plan looks good :) for florence id recommend at least three days, and split it up in day1: duomo, ponte vecchio, and the city in general (palazzo pitti is also really worth going to), day2: the uffizi and day3: michelangelo/miniato. There's just so much more to do though lol

 

[destinyunknown]

I stayed in Venice 4 days and it was enough time to visit everything you listed (and more) and I had some spare time to walk around the city and go shopping. It's advisable that you stay in a place near to the things you want to visit because transports in Venice are slow. Being on the centre (or near) lets you have much more free time to do stuff. Your list isn't long though and the Clock Tower, the Basilica and the Palace are in the same place so even if you have to stay out of Venice you shouldn't have issues visiting everything on the list.

 

[MikeAU]

I stayed in Venice 4 days and it was enough time to visit everything you listed (and more) and I had some spare time to walk around the city and go shopping. It's advisable that you stay in a place near to the things you want to visit because transports in Venice are slow. Being on the centre (or near) lets you have much more free time to do stuff. Your list isn't long though and the Clock Tower, the Basilica and the Palace are in the same place so even if you have to stay out of Venice you shouldn't have issues visiting everything on the list.

Cheers, mate. I've been told that Venice is one city that you want to intentionally get lost and just wonder around and all -- being as organised as I am, I have to have a plan but essentially, planned this to just be a slightly more relaxing visit. I will probably try and stay inside Venice or close to the centre so that I don't have to waste too much time on travelling, etc.

Cherub Agent -- is it possible to do San Gimignano and Monteriggioni on the same day? Also, whilst i'm fully licenced I am not sure I would want to drive in a foreign place... Monteriggioni is about half hour from Siena from what i've seen -- so surely there would be buses/trains there?

Edit: transport betweeen Capitals, i'm struggling to translate on the net, but how accessible are places via train network? I.e Rome - Naples - Florence - Siena - Venice? I assume from Rome you can get anywhere but is there a set order that would be more practical other than just ensuring that you're not unnecessarily double-backing.

So, on to the next part of the trip, Netherlands/Switzerland. Initially I had planned on 5 nights in Netherlands but from what I have seen, I think it would be more prudent to try and do 2 nights and open up some time for Switzerland (Zurich?) -- can anyone offer some must-see/do places for either of these two places?

 

[Blue_Tornado]

Gonna borrow this thread for a post or two: I'm in London with family -right now-, been to the castles, palaces & other structures, the parliament and the Eye, going to [some of] the museums & Hyde Park. Anything else I absolutely shouldn't miss?

 

[sirndpt]

Gonna borrow this thread for a post or two: I'm in London with family -right now-, been to the castles, palaces & other structures, the parliament and the Eye, going to [some of] the museums & Hyde Park. Anything else I absolutely shouldn't miss?

lmao

the hunterian museum in london! lincoln inn fields near holborn station, free entry

basically medical oddities: all the animal/ human body parts you might or might not ever have wanted to see, babies and penises and eyes and intestines in jars, oh and two skeletons (one's of a giant and one had this condition where her connective tissue gradually turns into bone)

easily one of my favourite things to take people to, dragging squeamish ones here right before lunch never gets old

 

[Lumari]

Cheers, mate. I've been told that Venice is one city that you want to intentionally get lost and just wonder around and all -- being as organised as I am, I have to have a plan but essentially, planned this to just be a slightly more relaxing visit. I will probably try and stay inside Venice or close to the centre so that I don't have to waste too much time on travelling, etc.

Cherub Agent -- is it possible to do San Gimignano and Monteriggioni on the same day? Also, whilst i'm fully licenced I am not sure I would want to drive in a foreign place... Monteriggioni is about half hour from Siena from what i've seen -- so surely there would be buses/trains there?

Edit: transport betweeen Capitals, i'm struggling to translate on the net, but how accessible are places via train network? I.e Rome - Naples - Florence - Siena - Venice? I assume from Rome you can get anywhere but is there a set order that would be more practical other than just ensuring that you're not unnecessarily double-backing.

So, on to the next part of the trip, Netherlands/Switzerland. Initially I had planned on 5 nights in Netherlands but from what I have seen, I think it would be more prudent to try and do 2 nights and open up some time for Switzerland (Zurich?) -- can anyone offer some must-see/do places for either of these two places?

As for the Netherlands, most tourists who go there go to Amsterdam, but that shouldn't come as a surprise I guess. Popular destinations there include the Rijksmuseum, Madame Tussauds (a wax sculpture museum, featuring sculptures of all kinds of celebrities), and the Anne Frank Huis (in case you don't know, she was a Jewish girl that was hiding from the Germans during the second World War, and she kept a diary which has become pretty famous. The house where she was hiding is now some sort of museum). A small warning about the Anne Frank Huis though, my father said it has now become utterly commercialised, to the point of almost being a farce (i.e. the actual complex now consists of gift shops and restaurants etc. for ~75%, of course you can still visit the house where she was hiding, but something like that should be a place where you can reflect on the second world war, the atrocities, human stupidity and stuff, and all the commerce makes that kind of hard). Of course, most of those destinations have gotten commercialised over time and I don't know if you're particularly bothered by that sort of thing, so your call. I've never visited it myself though, I'm just mentioning what he told me (but he is the kind of person that's bothered by that sort of thing, so I'm willing to take his word for it).

Another question though, were you mainly interested in the city/seeing popular tourist attractions, or are you interested in nature/the countryside as well? In that case, I really recommend spending a day in the far south ^_^ also, a classmate of mine who's visiting all towns/villages in the Netherlands by bicycle has said it was the most beautiful region by a long shot, so I'm not alone in saying this. (Dunno if you're interested in cycling, but it's the region where the Amstel Gold Race is held.) But yeah, the countryside in the far south is one of this country's most beautiful regions in terms of nature, with a lot of hills, kinda like Switzerland or the Czech Bohemes (exaggerating a little here, but I gotta do some advertising), so if you're into cycling/hiking in the woods or something like that, I definitely recommend this place. There's also a bunch of (mediaeval) castles here, if you're into that. Valkenburg is a rather popular tourist destination here, so it shouldn't be hard to find lodging. If you're interested, I can always give you some more detailed recommendations :)
(I'm more of a countryside person myself and I really don't like the city, so I'm always more likely to recommend the countryside and I don't know that many good destinations in the city).

One more thing, before you go, I really recommend you inform yourself regarding public transport here. A couple of years ago, our government introduced a personalised chip card (with rechargeable funds, hope I'm not phrasing it in a really confusing manner) for trains and buses, and in an effort to be more hipster, they recently abolished the traditional paper tickets altogether >.> you can still buy non-personalised chip cards and deposit funds on them (or they already hold some funds, not a lot of experience with them lol), but it's really confusing if you're not used to it (and often still if you are, but w/e).

 

[More Cowbell]

To add to what The Dutch Lumberjack said, public transport in the Netherlands is pretty good overall, except for those personalized chip cards (which are called OV-chipkaart here, by the way). Once you have one (which shouldn't be too hard), you can get from pretty much any point in the country within three hours. Basically any city above 20,000 inhabitants will have at least one stop for trains.

Not sure how long you'll be staying in the Netherlands, but there's more to our country than just Amsterdam. Other interesting cities include Delft (my hometown), Haarlem, Utrecht and The Hague, but basically any city with an older city center is worth a visit.

All of this is very basic info, of course, so if you have any more (specific) questions, don't hesitate to ask.

 

[Lumari]

Yeah, absolutely agreeing with above, public transport is indeed pretty good overall. Virtually all trains leave twice per hour (iirc, up to six times an hour on important routes), and /usually/ there aren't any massive delays, if a train is late it's rarely more than ten minutes unless somebody has committed suicide or if there's a copper theft or something - but that's something that can't be helped of course. I don't know how reliable public transport in Australia is, but judging by what I've heard from other countries, we're quite fortunate here.

Speaking of cities with older centers, another interesting city outside of Amsterdam is Nijmegen (in the east of the country). It is the second oldest city in the country, dating from the Roman era, and it has quite some museums dedicated to this. Not to mention it's a pretty nice city otherwise too. Haven't really ever been sightseeing in any of the cities More Cowbell mentioned, but supposedly they're pretty interesting for tourists as well (esp. Utrecht from what I've heard)

 

[MikeAU]

sirndpt --really? That is just...creepy, lol.

The Dutch Plumberjack -- thank you for that comprehensive response! My family are from Netherlands so it will be great to stop over there and experience the food, culture, etc.

With regards to your feedback about attractions -- places like Rome, there are the typical places I want to visit, however, there are just as many things that arent the typical tourist stuff. I am saddened to hear that the Anne Frank house has been over commercialised, stuff like that should be left for preservation and obviously in a manner that allows the world and it's travellers to see what it is like, however, keeping the historical focus there.

It is likely that we will be staying in Amsterdam given the short time we will have...3-4nights, however, one day I would like solely dedicated to do a day tour well out of town and to try and see some more rural areas. There certainly is a lot to see and do, however I am expecting our time here to be more laid back than say, in Rome.

More Cowbell - It is reassuring that the public transport is good! We have a similar thing here in Sydney, and in Melbourne (best tram network in Australia. Personally -- they scare me and are annoying, but that's a different issue, lol.) Unfortunately I will only have 3-4nights, so I will not have a lot of time, however, of the places you mentioned, I will do research -- but if you had to recommend one to thoroughly explore, which would you suggest? My family are from Hoorn, is that fairly accessible?

 

[Blue_Tornado]

We took the tourist boat instead of the clipper (holy shit that pollution, by the way), it was pretty nice but if you're planning a return trip too it's sort of a waste of time.

Uh, I really liked A&V and the National Gallery, but I've never been to that kind of big overwhelming museum before so I don't know how much that helps.

 

[More Cowbell]

I've never personally been to Hoorn, but a quick google search shows that there are plenty of trains going to Hoorn from Amsterdam, Alkmaar and Haarlem, the other major cities in the area. From Amsterdam, basically any other major city is quite easily accessible.

As of cities you really should visit, I'm a bit biased towards Delft, since that is my town of origin. I do, however, recommend it, as it's a prime example of a city originating from the Dutch Golden Age. One day should be plenty, since the city is not that big. It's a bit tourist-oriented in some places, but you can quite easily avoid the tourists and just hang out around town. There's plenty of bars, restaurants and coffeeshops (if weed is your thing), so making it through the day shouldn't be a problem.
Haarlem is quite similar to Delft, and closer to Hoorn; I'm not much of an expert on Haarlem, but it's beautiful for sure. A bit less tourist-infested as well.

 

[SOMALIA]

Don't come to London

 

[MikeAU]

More Cowbell -- thank you. It isn't really my 'thing'. Over here its considered illegal and i've kind of built my views around it on that basis. Although, being legal over there kind of poses a moral challenge for me. But i don't think i'll try any of it.

SOMALIA - why not? I take it by your post you live there? See, for us to get to EU, its either travel the back/long way via asia in to EU or go AU->Dubai->London. So given that all roads in/out of EU is via London. I figured a short stay on arrival and before departure back to AU. I was hoping to meet DHR-107 there but pretty much just planning typical tourist stuff.

 

[DiscoDucky]

I suggest visiting Ukraine right now. Tons of excitement that I assure will never bore.

As for you ambitious schedule, I'd personally recommend spending a few days at either of these locations (you pick): Milan, Sorrento/Capri, and Lake Como. Milan is just an interesting city to be in because of its big fashion scene, from clothing to interior design. Sorrento and Capri have a magnificent view of the Mediterranean Ocean. Also, I highly recommend trying the Limoncello at Sorrento (it's basically lemon wine in layman's terms). Finally, Lake Como is just a beautiful destination complete with quiet villages lining the lakeside with a great view of the Italian Alps.

 

[whistle]

i've been to switzerland twice. it's very expensive. the cities are not the main attraction: the swiss alps are. the cities have their own character in addition to the standard "european charm", so it's not like they are boring. but unless you really want to check out one in particular for a specific reason, i think the alps are a much more unique destination. if you like pretty scenery, mountains, valleys, and hiking, you will love it there. three days won't leave you disappointed (it costs quite a bit to get there, so wouldn't recommend two). hostels are about 30 chf a night, cable cars around 50-100 chf depending on how high you want to get (good for half a day/day hiking and sightseeing), trains on the ground 3-10 chf to get from town to town within the interlaken region, trains that cover significant portions of the country 40-80 chf. i think tourist season is june-september. when i went in early may there was still snow on the highest peaks but it was very empty (good for nature-type tourism) and when i went in august everything was open and it was more busy and the towns/easy hiking trails were very crowded.

my first switzerland trip was actually rome -> overnight train to bern (7h, 100 €, not sure about discount for buying earlier) -> early morning tgv direct line to paris (4h, 90 € buying late, i think about 60 if you buy earlier). so if you're flying into london you could do that in reverse. never been to the netherlands so don't know the best way to fit in.

 

[hard]

I suggest to not plan too much, so you don't get a burnout after two weeks ;)
From my experience I would recommend to skip Switzerland. It´s a beautiful country and I love to be there for hiking and enjoying nature but its VERY expensive and you would need some more time to truly enjoy what it has to give. This would free up some time to chill in Tuscany - don't forget to drink a lot of very good vine around San Gimignano ;)- and France.

If you and your friend are up to those kind of things I can highly recommend a road trip through Tuscany and Northern Italy/ Southern France.
It´s just a really relaxed way of traveling here and makes it easy to plan new things whenever you feel like it.
Some of the more pricy but much better car rentals even offer cars that you can drop in another country. I have a lot of nice memories from my trip from Berlin to Tirol, Milano, Florence and all those beautiful little cities around there. But we had to get rid of some luggage for the massive amounts of vine we bought, so a car that is bigger than a Porsche Boxxter would be cool :D

Btw I´m from Berlin, which sadly won't fit into your trip but is definitely worth it on the next occasion. Have a great time in Europe!

 

[MikeAU]

Well, I've seem to be overwhelmed with life and planning this now monstrous holiday, which has evolved in to: (nights)
Dubai(3)/London(4)/Paris(4)/Nice(2)/Rome(4)/Florence(5)/Venice(3)/Lucerne(2)/Zurich(2)/Munich(3)/Berlin(2)/Amsterdam(4)

I've sat down with a couple of travel agents to work at mapping it all out (the above order) and booked/locked in /most/ of it. Not enough to see everything in detail but I will certainly be back!

hard - thank you for your post! We will certainly be affording time esp. in France/Italy to see some of the less-popular things. My one goal with travel is to experience what the area has to offer, what life is like and experience the culture/food. We've got 5 nights in Florence, which could have been diverted elsewhere but it is my favourite place in Europe, mostly because of the history around it (I dont subscribe to much historical reading, but renaissance Italy, i'm obsessed with!). Also, I dont mind a good drop so will certainly be sampling what the area has to offer.

I do have some additional questions and as always, thank you in advance!

1. Pisa; from what i've heard there isn't much there. THe plan is upon arriving to Florence, drop the luggage off and head Pisa for the afternoon. Our Eurail passes are 'days' of travel, not number of trips and it is the only day we need to use a train for as the rest of our itinerary for Florence is just walk around -- bar the trip to San Gimignano/Tuscany tour.

2. Dubai; I'll preface this by saying that I am from Australia and we have blistering heat here (Looks at Hydrattler and DHR-107 complaining in IRC that they had the hottest Halloween ever last week; 23C) however, without the humidity, does it make it worse or better? Regardless, I booked in at the Atlantis, The Plam Jumeirah so there is that epic water park there.

3. Berlin/Munich; Keeping in mind this is now the last half of my holiday and we are fully aware how exhausted and overwhelmed we could be so the idea with Germany and Netherlands was to take it slow and at a very leisurely pace. Munich we're going to see the Neuschwanstein and Linderhorf Castles. Berlin will be more city-focused.
- Random question; where is best to buy a cuckoo clock! I've always wanted one for the house -- are there some reputable places that ship international?

4. Netherlands; I'll reach out to some family i've got here to catch up for a day, have some city time, head to see the tulip fields (if in bloom in September?), explore and in general...*relax*

Any other pointers for the above listed countries/cities (beyond what the general tourist stuff is) is greatly appreciated.

One last (but important questions) what is the best way to see Rome? I.e. is there a recommended 'zone' layout so as to bundle things to days? I.e Vatican in a day, Roman Forum/spanish steps, etc?

Peace out

 

[hard]

Nice timetable MikeAU! When do you plan to do the trip?
Btw, if you don´t know this already, you can (and should!!!) book tickets for most of the museums online. I remember that I was lucky to only need 2 hours to get into the uffici galleries because I did some tricks to get in early, otherwise four hours in daytime are not unusual...

In Munich you should plan to visit the Viktualienmarkt if you like to taste good food. You will see lots of native specialities including humans:)
Whenever you come to my hometown I can give you a short trip through the small remainings of the older centre of Berlin and give some advice for chill activities. Bring sunshine please :D