Poll: Flavour

[Texas Cloverleaf]

This is a completely informal survey of ASB people as it's been something that's been bandied around for a while and could potentially have merits when done in concert with the ASB ref training program and the growing number of people in ASB as a whole.

Feel free to discuss all aspects of this topic.


(P.S. someone pls double check of this is covered by the council constitution b/c it feels like a mod decision topic but I'm crapping at work so I can't check)

 

[Frosty]

Can we please have a "only on some" option? Mandatory flavor on all matches (oh god brawls) may be too restrictive for little outcome.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

No, we're referring to all matches including Brawls. Changes the dynamic about what the most fulfilling and most efficient sources of UC are.

Take the question at face value but similarly consider that the UC system could be increased in some way potentially to compensate (flat rate, floating point variable, other random words, etc)

 

[Flamestrike]

This... Will be interesting. My two cents:

For some matches, flavour should absolutely be mandatory. Highlight match? Yes. Gyms? Definitely. Tournaments? Absolutely. However, there's no need for every single ASB match to have flavour, and at this point it would probably be a detrimental change. As Frosty pointed out, "Only on some" is really the option I'm looking for here, but in its absence I have to go with no. If Player X, Player Y and referee Z don't give a shit about flavour in random Battle Tower match #65301, then I don't see why they should be forced to do it. If we're talking the type of match that showcases ASB as a whole (mainly the three I mentioned above), then that's a different story, but otherwise it should be "to each their own".

FrostyEDIT: I couldn't have said this better myself.

 

[Avnomke]

Also roleplays should definitely require flavor. I know I'm guilty of not doing it, but it should be required, since rps should be more for the experience than for the counters imo. But random training matches shouldn't require flavor.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

This... Will be interesting. My two cents:

For some matches, flavour should absolutely be mandatory. Highlight match? Yes. Gyms? Definitely. Tournaments? Absolutely. However, there's no need for every single ASB match to have flavour, and at this point it would probably be a detrimental change. As Frosty pointed out, "Only on some" is really the option I'm looking for here, but in its absence I have to go with no. If Player X, Player Y and referee Z don't give a shit about flavour in random Battle Tower match #65301, then I don't see why they should be forced to do it. If we're talking the type of match that showcases ASB as a whole (mainly the three I mentioned above), then that's a different story, but otherwise it should be "to each their own".

FrostyEDIT: I couldn't have said this better myself.

As it stands this is the case. All matches with Gym or Tournament tags are supposed to have full flavour.

 

[Doubt]

Another thing that should also be listed is the extent of flavor - if it's just flavor in reffing, or if it also allows for flavor actions.

Also keep in mind UC payment for referees might need to be changed - it's significantly harder to flavor a match than to just do barebones reffing. A referee should be payed more for doing a 2v2 doubles with full flavor than if they reffed some flashmatch 2v2 FE doubles in which there was specifically specified to be no flavor.

To those who feel flavor should only be on some, I agree to an extent. However, if, as Flamestrike says, it should be mandatory only on the matches that showcase ASB as a whole, keep in mind these matches are the exception, not the rule right now. While they are the high-level matches everyone is eventually aiming at, they are not showcasing the standard for ASB matches as a whole right now. As such, I would propose a simple(ish) change - unless specified otherwise, flavor is mandatory on a match. So, in the battle tower it would look like this
3v3 FE Singles (Standard match, nothing else specified, flavor mandatory)
1v1 FE Singles (No Flavor) (No Flavor is specified, thus flavor is completely optional on this match)
High-level ASB matches such as Gyms or Highlight Matches, as well as roleplays should require flavor always.

 

[Matezoide]

Cant argue with Flamestrike.

 

[Flamestrike]

Also roleplays should definitely require flavor. I know I'm guilty of not doing it, but it should be required, since rps should be more for the experience than for the counters imo. But random training matches shouldn't require flavor.

Depends on the roleplay IMO; Subway/Hall/Arcade/Pike were designed expressly to not include flavour for reffing (although they did include RPing the various trainers the opponent fought, maybe that's what you meant in which case I agree). Other than that, flavour in roleplays usually isn't an issue because, well, they're roleplays; they're usually designed with flavour in mind. I guess it might be an issue in TLR but from what I've seen even there you get a blurb or two most of the time.

As it stands this is the case. All matches with Gym or Tournament tags are supposed to have full flavour.

I'm aware, and that's a good thing, I just wanted to be clear that when I say no I don't mean "no, no matches should require flavour".

 

[Frosty]

Facility RPs are supposed to have some Flavor. But only the whole "XXX wants to battle" + Sprite and the Sprite and a random quote every round (and it kinda pisses me off when that doesn't happen <_<). Even on the very begining RPs didn't have flavor on the actions themselves.

TLR and Raids and Adventure Battles have more flavor (in different degrees) by design, not because they are RPs.

As for Gyms, there is no parameter of what "full flavor" is. Should I write fluff about moves? Analyze the battles? I get to choose? Should I go for more extense flavor? Also, if the ref doesn't flavor nothing happens :/ . While I am aware I am probably the Gym Ref with more rounds without flavor, I believe some enforcement is nice if you really want flavor to be on every gym match.

 

[Dogfish44]

Well this is fun. I'm in the "Yes" crowd, but degree of flavour is important.

Beginner matches should have a solid amont of flavour - flavour helps many newbies understand what's going on, and good flavour entices people to stay.

Flashmatches? A single line. Just simply narrate what's going on - "Through clever substitute abuse Player X takes the lead!".

Generic? Somewhere between the two above - users who aren't beginners should be able to read the calcs, but it should still not need to delve into this.

Battle Facilities? Trainer Sprites (Bulbapedia) and minor quotes are plenty here.

Tournaments? Gyms? HLMs? I should see a solid amount of well-written flavour, these should stand out.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

As for Gyms, there is no parameter of what "full flavor" is. Should I write fluff about moves? Analyze the battles? I get to choose? Should I go for more extense flavor? Also, if the ref doesn't flavor nothing happens :/ . While I am aware I am probably the Gym Ref with more rounds without flavor, I believe some enforcement is nice if you really want flavor to be on every gym match.

Yes. Be instructive or entertaining or fluffy, all satisfy the ideal.

There currently aren't any penalties for not writing flavour, one thing mandating flavour would do is create an inherent check for penalties.

Obviously people can't do flavour every single time because of circumstances but in a perfect world I'd like to see flavour on >50% of all rounds.

Dogfish's guidelines are also excellent

 

[Stratos]

If we mandate flavor in some way, then we're going to need a major overhaul of asb. I don't /care/ about my badmon fights, those are just preparation so they wont be bad when i need them. If you find a way to make it so i don't need like 15 badmon-dont-care fights before i can start using them seriously, then maybe i'll support this.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Reiterating that this is an informal, public perceptionion survey