Resource RU Viability Ranking

[pokemonisfun]

I think Glaceon needs to be ranked to about B right now, very similar to Exploud except she works in hail and Ice=/=Scrappy Normal coverage. She works well with the chip damage in hail (Icy Rock Abomasnow please) and can be very annoying with Snow Cloak and Blizzard's 10% freeze chance whenever you click it (Scald thaws though and Water types are a top switch in so it isn't that good). She has good bulk and enough speed to go before all defensive Pokemon so she is useful against all playstyles, especially slower teams.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 173-204 (53.7 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and hail damage
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aromatisse: 327-385 (80.5 - 94.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 178-210 (40 - 47.2%) -- 44.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 178-210 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

These sort of calculations are fantastic for Glaceon.


Of course her low speed and pathetic defensive typing means she needs support like Defog (and hail obviously) and lots of partners to take lots of moves which is very very bad for a Choice Specs user especially.

 

[Shaymin :D]

I think Glaceon needs to be ranked to about B right now, very similar to Exploud except she works in hail and Ice=/=Scrappy Normal coverage. She works well with the chip damage in hail (Icy Rock Abomasnow please) and can be very annoying with Snow Cloak and Blizzard's 10% freeze chance whenever you click it (Scald thaws though and Water types are a top switch in so it isn't that good). She has good bulk and enough speed to go before all defensive Pokemon so she is useful against all playstyles, especially slower teams.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 173-204 (53.7 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and hail damage
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aromatisse: 327-385 (80.5 - 94.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 178-210 (40 - 47.2%) -- 44.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 178-210 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

These sort of calculations are fantastic for Glaceon.


Of course her low speed and pathetic defensive typing means she needs support like Defog (and hail obviously) and lots of partners to take lots of moves which is very very bad for a Choice Specs user especially.

I'm sorry, but there's just no way Glaceon should be B rank. Yes, it does hit quite hard and Ice is a good offensive typing, but it just has a ton of problems. It's very slow, meaning it has to take a hit before delivering a powerful attack, making it hard for it to do anything to offensive/balance teams. Its decent 95 SpDef doesn't look very good when compared it has a poor 65 HP. It also has a horrible defensive typing that is weak to SR, only resists Ice, and, again, has to take a hit before it can attack. Finally, you need to run Hail, which means you have to run Abomasnow, another mon with similar weaknesses. If you use mega you have no turns to abuse Hail, and if you run Hail Rock (whatever it's called), you have an inferior mon in your hands. Also, the majority of Water types can just easily switch-in, along with threatening Fire and Steel types. And if you predict them switching in with Shadow Ball, they can just proceed to switch into their Normal type. IMO Glaceon just takes too much support to be successful. I just think Glaceon is very niche, and in most part is outclassed and needs Abomasnow to function. I don't see it getting ranked, at most D Rank, but nothing more.

 

[JMcFizz]

I think Glaceon needs to be ranked to about B right now, very similar to Exploud except she works in hail and Ice=/=Scrappy Normal coverage. She works well with the chip damage in hail (Icy Rock Abomasnow please) and can be very annoying with Snow Cloak and Blizzard's 10% freeze chance whenever you click it (Scald thaws though and Water types are a top switch in so it isn't that good). She has good bulk and enough speed to go before all defensive Pokemon so she is useful against all playstyles, especially slower teams.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 173-204 (53.7 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and hail damage
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aromatisse: 327-385 (80.5 - 94.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 178-210 (40 - 47.2%) -- 44.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 178-210 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

These sort of calculations are fantastic for Glaceon.


Of course her low speed and pathetic defensive typing means she needs support like Defog (and hail obviously) and lots of partners to take lots of moves which is very very bad for a Choice Specs user especially.

There's no denying that off of a base 130 atk with Specs and Stab on a 120 Power Atk something will get hit hard. Unfortunately for Glaceon it has several huge flaws that prevent it from being anywhere near B rank.

1)You can't expect Hail to be up for any period of time unless you want to keep setting it up by bringing Abomasnow in (or using hail but like wat). Abomasnow and Glaceon have terrible synergy together so whatever your opponent brings in to take out abomasnow will probably work against glaceon too.

2) Base 65 speed is shit. You're losing out to every single offensive threat that isn't a TR user. Invested it will outspeed defensive pokes without investment, but defensive pokes often won't expect to outspeed anything offensive.

3) Ice is shitty typing defensively and with 65/110/95 defenses it won't be able to take many hits before dying.

Basically it won't get many opportunities to get in and do any damage. I invite you to playtest trying out glaceon and show me a replay against a good player where it's remotely effective. If it's ranked anywhere it should be D, maybe.

 

[pokemonisfun]

You guys think I'm a troll and my post are stupid but I promise they aren't. But I have GlassGlaceon's like on my post so yeah I don't feel like I need to waste time replying until you guys try out Glaceon yourself.

 

[JMcFizz]

You guys think I'm a troll and my post are stupid but I promise they aren't. But I have GlassGlaceon's like on my post so yeah I don't feel like I need to waste time replying until you guys try out Glaceon yourself.

If you are trying to prove a point, and people are providing counterpoints, you ought to back up your logic. I can show you replays of Glaceon sucking, but since you're trying to move it up the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate how Glaceon can be effective enough in a real replay or game situation to live up to the ranking you want it promoted to.
Please learn to follow the rules of the forum, and if you don't understand you can always try lurking more or asking a mentor for help, I'm sure they'd be more than happy to.

 

[x MAD AXES x]

Is snow cloak not banned under the evasion clause?

 

[Shaymin :D]

No, it's not.

Also I'm building a Glaceon team, will report back results ._.

 

[Worthlessnoob]

You guys think I'm a troll and my post are stupid but I promise they aren't. But I have GlassGlaceon's like on my post so yeah I don't feel like I need to waste time replying until you guys try out Glaceon yourself.

GlassGlaceon probably just liked your post because he/she likes Glaceon. -_-

Either way though, Glaceon is garbage because it has bad typing and I'd rather use Vanilluxe over this thing.

 

[x MAD AXES x]

I can't see it being B when you look at the pokemon in that tier and look at the higher ranks Glaceon can't switch into any of them and because of her bad speed if she survives the attack she is getting 2HKO'd

The only pokemon that have to switch are molo (gets 2HKO), ryperior if he doesn't sub/stone edge, aromatisse, druddigon, aboma (non mega), amoongus, gligar, no smash gorebyss (why you using her then), mismagius

so she beats 9/27 of S to A- (didnt count to dugtrio as you cant switch into arena trap unless you're a flying type, which dugtrio will switch aswell but reversal sash dugtrio beats glaceon) which is 33% while she is also taking a big dent of her health as she's so slow, this is without factoring in rocks, which that 9 becomes even smaller.

 

[Shaymin :D]

Ok, so I'm back from playing around with Glaceon, and my opinion on it has not changed really. I only played 5 games just to get a sample, but here is what Glaceon did in those games, along with some replays, and my team

this was harder than it should be to teambuild around

Glaceon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Blizzard
- Shadow Ball
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Abomasnow @ Abomasite
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 176 Atk / 248 SpA / 84 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Blizzard
- Wood Hammer
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard

Gligar @ Eviolite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Earthquake
- Defog

Druddigon @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
- Sucker Punch

Eelektross @ Assault Vest
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet
- Volt Switch
- Knock Off
- Giga Drain
- Flamethrower

Hitmonlee (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch

So yeah, set up sub with Gligar, pass it to threats, Drudd and Eelektross are pivots n_n BTW Sucker Punch on Lee is so that I don't get COMPLETELY obliterated by Delphox

(Just for reference I won all 5 games)

Game 1: Glaceon was able to get a late game clean (and killed Mega Aboma early too, tho the crit probably mattered). This game shows the most work out of Glaceon: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-145892747

Game 2: Literally did nothing lol

Game 3: Was able to weaken CM Cress enough for Hitmonlee to revenge. AKA pretty much nothing.

Game 4: Glaceon was able to wallbreak I guess, tho the opponent wasn't the best: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-145903140

Game 5: I misclick Eelektross over Glaceon, so Glaceon probably could have killed Drudd. The opponent gave Glass way too many free kills tho. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-145905126

So, I can see Glaceon maybe in D/C-, but it's just really reliant on M-Aboma for that extra power, along with Defog and Volt Turn support. I would say more C- rank, since it's def better and does more work than Gogoat and Regirock lol. It's still pretty trash tho.

 

[Mew2]

Kudos to Shaymin for posting her experiences with Glaceon instead of talking about them good job :D.
With that aside I think you gave Glaceon a lot of support and the results weren't awesome (Even with a free Sub and hail Glaceon wasn't near MVP) so I was thinking about not even ranking this guy but then I thought: "We have ranked trash like Gogoat and Frogaider so why shouldn't we rank this thing?" I think D rank is fine: SR weakness, slow, requires a lot of support and most times the support isn't worth the reward. And people stop the Glaceon hate I think you should all "Let It Go".

 

[Bouff]

Idk how anyone can compare sharpedo to craw ?____? All they have are the same STABs; sharpedo doesn't have access to knock off, and can't severely cripple a team, or at least weaken it enough for a late game cleaner, and also doesn't have access to SD / DD. The fact that you'd even say that shit makes any decent uu player puke rofl. I have a lot more to say about that shit of a post but I'd rather not clog up the thread more than it already has been.


Moving on, agreeing with Aroma at A+, the fact that it has one of the best defensive typings in the game, and a fairly good offensive one at that, preventing it from being too passive. It also deals with some of slowkings best checks, like zoro and lee, and is an amazing cleric, preventing common partners like Cresselia from losing to Toxic. With the popularity of common offense mons such as Doublade and Molt however I wouldn't be /too/ opposed with it staying, however most common stall teams have an answer to it anyway.

 

[Mew2]

Idk how anyone can compare sharpedo to craw ?____? All they have are the same STABs; sharpedo doesn't have access to knock off, and can't severely cripple a team, or at least weaken it enough for a late game cleaner, and also doesn't have access to SD / DD. The fact that you'd even say that shit makes any decent uu player puke rofl. I have a lot more to say about that shit of a post but I'd rather not clog up the thread more than it already has been.

Did you even read my post? I compared their STABS not their role: Sharpedo is a late game cleaner while Crawdaunt is a walllbreaker. Crawdaunt went to BL because everything got 2HKOed by CB Knock off/ Crabhammer unless you were Chesnaught and frailer threats were destroyed by Aqua Jet and imo this is a perfect example of why Dark / Water STAB combo is one of the best STAB combos in the entire game. So read the whole post before calling my posts shitty next time. Case closed not replying to you anymore.

 

[Bouff]

Yes, which meant you were implying that since Craw shat up uu and has the same stabs as pedo, therefore pedo is just as good of a mon, which doesn't make any fucking sense at all.

Wepwn said most of the things i would've pointed out, but id just like to say that your argument about Sharpedo taking Shadow Sneak /Spunch much better than yan is practically invalid, after doing research I realized Sharp is only taking it better than yanmega by literally 0.7% lmfao. If you don't want to reply, that's fine, idek why I'm wasting my time arguing with someone who thinks Acupressure should be suspected.

 

[Mew2]

Wepwn said most of the things i would've pointed out, but id just like to say that your argument about Sharpedo taking Shadow Sneak /Spunch much better than yan is practically invalid, after doing research I realized Sharp is only taking it better than yanmega by literally 0.7% lmfao. If you don't want to reply, that's fine, idek why I'm wasting my time arguing with someone who thinks Acupressure should be suspected.

I never said Sharpedo takes SS/ SP much better in fact, I MADE THE CALCS:

Aside from Mach Punch Yanmega and Sharpedo take similar damage from priority:
252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 73-87 (23.2 - 27.7%) -- 70.3% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sharpedo: 65-77 (23.1 - 27.4%) -- 59.2% chance to 4HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sharpedo: 159-187 (56.5 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 175-208 (55.7 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Mega Banette Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 99-117 (31.5 - 37.2%) -- 80.2% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Mega Banette Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sharpedo: 87-103 (30.9 - 36.6%) -- 68.8% chance to 3HKO

Doublade and Registeel are more common that something like defensive Virizion lol and Yanmega won't switch as many times as you think when SR are up. Also lol specs SB Yanmega

Read whole thing next time...

 

[pokemonisfun]

Idk how anyone can compare sharpedo to craw ?____? All they have are the same STABs; sharpedo doesn't have access to knock off, and can't severely cripple a team, or at least weaken it enough for a late game cleaner, and also doesn't have access to SD / DD. The fact that you'd even say that shit makes any decent uu player puke rofl.

Just to confirm I did nearly puke for reasons bouff stated.

 

[Molk]

Updates!

Aromatisse up to A+
Drapion up to A-
Omastar up to B+
Victreebel added to C+
Kricketune added to C- rank
Glaceon added to D rank (this is subject to change, i saw atomicllamas test it out for fun and there were some games where it did work, but the fact that it required so much support was a pretty big turnoff for ranking it any higher than this. Especially considering most of the stuff it was doing could be done just as well by say Exploud, who needs significantly less support to perform whats essentially the same role with the same level of power).

By same level of power, i really mean same level of power

252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 213-252 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 213-252 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Sand Pokemon aren't being added yet since Hippopotas has to choose between being *complete* dead weight and giving enough sand turns and being semi viable outside of sand but not giving enough turns to make full use of it. Not to mention i might end up removing Glaceon anyway =/.

Not really sure on Rhyperior to A+, Doublade to S, or Accelgor to B+, i'll talk w/ the council about it and get some thoughts later in the day. If we have a good discussion i'll c/p it here so all of you can see =).

I'd also like to bring up moving Seismitoad and Poliwrath a bit higher although i haven't tested either too much. Seismitoad fills a similar niche to Gastrodon except it exchanges Recover for Stealth Rock and possibly Knock Off, while also being pretty solid as a rain sweeper whether standalone or on a full rain team. Poliwrath actually matches up pretty well against some of the tier's biggest threats. (Rhyperior, Doublade to an extent, physical Zoroark, Sharpedo, Cobalion, and Escavalier all absolutely hate this thing lol). It recieves major competition from Alomomola obviously, but the fact that it can phaze with Circle Throw to stop opponents from setting up on it isn't something to be ignored. Poliwrath could also use its resistances and access to support moves such as Encore to pull off a subpunch set i guess, but its power is a little underwhelming so idk.

I'm going to test both of these a bit more and see what i think of them afterwards =).

EDIT: Expect some big changes to C rank in the near future, going to try and clean that out in the next day or so.

EDIT2: Also, should Feraligatr get a rank? The Swords Dance set recieves competition in this metagame from Samurott since it has Megahorn to get past Tangrowth and OHKO Slowking (learns Knock Off too!), but Feraligatr still has access to Dragon Dance to help seperate itself from the crowd.

Sample sets for all 3 water mons

Feraligatr @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake

Seismitoad @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 164 HP / 252 SpA / 92 Spe
Modest Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Hydro Pump
- Sludge Bomb
- Earth Power

Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Circle Throw
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

 

[atomicllamas]

Ya d rank is good for Glaceon, watching people try to switch into it is hilarious because you are either 1 or 2HKOed by blizzard or you are Registeel and I baton pass too dugtrio. However, Glaceon requires you to literally build your entire team around supporting it, when I could just use Yanmega or exploud and do the exact same thing with much less support. But yeah I've been using choice specs with Blizzard Ice Beam Shadow Ball and Baton Pass and it is really fun to play with if you are bored :).

 

[Molk]

alright so spirit, silentverse, and i talked about C/D rank on irc, and here's a c/p of the convo that we had.

Hide

[19:02] <&@MoIk> personally the only mons i'd keep in D rank atm are
[19:02] <&@MoIk> jynx regirock and *maybe* sneasel and hariyama
[19:07] <SilentVerse> y
[19:08] <SilentVerse> also the problem i had with subdd
[19:08] <SilentVerse> back in bw ru when i wanted to use it
[19:08] <SilentVerse> was that while it beat alo
[19:08] <SilentVerse> it's kinda weak
[19:08] <&@MoIk> i mean honestly i could really see sneasel staying
[19:08] <SilentVerse> unless you use lo sub dd but that is
[19:08] <SilentVerse> Kinda Bad.
[19:08] <SilentVerse> also sneasel seems fine tbh
[19:08] <&@MoIk> it doesn't seem
[19:08] <&@MoIk> bad at all
[19:08] <SilentVerse> decent trapper, esp if zoro goes
[19:08] <&@MoIk> the only problem is zoro gives it huge competition
[19:08] <SilentVerse> also
[19:08] <&@MoIk> not even as a trapper
[19:08] <SilentVerse> ye
[19:08] <&@MoIk> just run 4 attacks
[19:08] <&@MoIk> shard/ice punch/knock off/low kick
[19:09] <&@MoIk> outspeeding and low kicking cobalion is a cool niche
[19:09] <SilentVerse> y
[19:09] <&@MoIk> and so is smacking gligar without resorting to hp ice
[19:09] <SilentVerse> it also
[19:09] <SilentVerse> trucks viriz
[19:09] <SilentVerse> with ice punch
[19:09] <SilentVerse> only problem is frail as balls
[19:09] <SilentVerse> and competition from zoro ye
[19:09] <&@MoIk> so anyways
[19:09] <SilentVerse> but i think it's fine in d for now
[19:09] <&@MoIk> what about the rest of C rank
[19:09] <SilentVerse> crustle
[19:09] <SilentVerse> seems terrible
[19:09] <SilentVerse> i would never use it
[19:10] <&@MoIk> C+ seems a little inflated
[19:10] <SilentVerse> except MAYBE for smash sr hp ice
[19:10] <SilentVerse> but like
[19:10] <&@MoIk> so crustle for D
[19:10] <&@MoIk> ?
[19:10] <%Spirit> crustle is d
[19:10] <SilentVerse> the only reason smash hazard crustle was usable
[19:10] <SilentVerse> was that it beat all comon leads
[19:10] <SilentVerse> in bw ru
[19:10] <SilentVerse> and hazards were hard to remove
[19:10] <SilentVerse> so yeah d for sure
[19:10] <&@MoIk> btw im going to ppad this
[19:10] <&@MoIk> PRIVATE
[19:11] <SilentVerse> also cradily for d
[19:11] <SilentVerse> or remove
[19:11] <SilentVerse> idk wtf that does
[19:11] <%Spirit> ^
[19:11] <%Spirit> exploud / fox check
[19:11] <%Spirit> otherwise very mediocre
[19:11] <SilentVerse> but
[19:11] <SilentVerse> doesn't it get trucked
[19:11] <&@MoIk> its only real niche is an exploud check with reliable recovery
[19:11] <SilentVerse> by the mighty
[19:11] <SilentVerse> focus blast exploud
[19:11] <SilentVerse> oO
[19:12] <%Spirit> idk if ppl run that
[19:12] <&@MoIk> i could see that in D or at least C-
[19:12] <SilentVerse> d is fine i think
[19:12] <%Spirit> i run overheat / fire blast then flamethrower surf
[19:12] <SilentVerse> b/c i mean
[19:12] <SilentVerse> i'd rather run regi
[19:12] <%Spirit> y
[19:12] <&@MoIk> arbok should move down to C rank
[19:12] <&@MoIk> imo
[19:12] <SilentVerse> yeah
[19:12] <SilentVerse> unless ur shake
[19:12] <SilentVerse> then is s rank pkmn tbh
[19:12] <&@MoIk> its solid in the right hands as shake showed but
[19:12] <&@MoIk> not C+
[19:12] <SilentVerse> y
[19:12] <SilentVerse> victreebel
[19:12] <SilentVerse> seems weird
[19:12] <&@MoIk> from what i heard of sandslash that could actually go up to C
[19:12] <&@MoIk> lol
[19:13] <SilentVerse> i can see it
[19:13] <&@MoIk> and uh it still has the same niche as last gen
[19:13] <SilentVerse> beating doublade reliably
[19:13] <SilentVerse> is rly strong
[19:13] <&@MoIk> scary as shit sun sweeper
[19:13] <SilentVerse> it has more checks now tho
[19:13] <SilentVerse> and is still frail as shit
[19:13] <SilentVerse> :[
[19:13] <&@MoIk> like wat
[19:13] <&@MoIk> im p. sure it still OHKOs the whole tier
[19:13] <SilentVerse> regi
[19:13] <&@MoIk> at +2
[19:13] <&@MoIk> it gets weather ball
[19:13] <&@MoIk> lol
[19:14] <SilentVerse> does it ohko
[19:14] <SilentVerse> regi with weather ball
[19:14] <%Spirit> idts
[19:14] <SilentVerse> regi is a man so i mean
[19:14] <%Spirit> it's regi
[19:14] <SilentVerse> also
[19:14] <SilentVerse> getting growth + sun
[19:14] <SilentVerse> is kinda hard from my experience
[19:14] <&@MoIk> weather ball does 70 unboosted
[19:14] <%Spirit> remove gogoat
[19:14] <SilentVerse> lol srs
[19:14] <&@MoIk> cleanly OHKOs when boosted
[19:14] <&@MoIk> yes
[19:14] <%Spirit> idk what the does tbh
[19:14] <SilentVerse> i thought
[19:14] <SilentVerse> weather ball doesn't get boosted
[19:14] <SilentVerse> by sun tho
[19:14] <SilentVerse> oO
[19:14] <&@MoIk> 252+ SpA Life Orb Victreebel Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel in Sun: 211-250 (57.9 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
[19:14] <SilentVerse> huh
[19:14] <SilentVerse> weird
[19:14] <&@MoIk> it does
[19:15] <&@MoIk> it gets boosted more than other moves
[19:15] <%Spirit> it's a 150 bp move
[19:15] <%Spirit> in sun
[19:15] <%Spirit> oo
[19:15] <SilentVerse> hm
[19:15] <&@MoIk> spirit im removing everything in D
[19:15] <SilentVerse> i mean
[19:15] <SilentVerse> it's still only really usable then
[19:15] <&@MoIk> except sneasel jynx and regirock
[19:15] <&@MoIk> lol
[19:15] <SilentVerse> on dedicated sun teams
[19:15] <%Spirit> can u remove cryo
[19:16] <%Spirit> it's ass in this meta
[19:16] <SilentVerse> cryo :[
[19:16] <%Spirit> with doublade everywhere
[19:16] <&@MoIk> cryo could move down to D at least yeah
[19:16] <%Spirit> it's way too easy to pressure
[19:16] <&@MoIk> who would've thought
[19:16] <&@MoIk> we'd see the day
[19:16] <&@MoIk> where sandslash
[19:16] <&@MoIk> is better than cryo
[19:16] <SilentVerse> ;;;
[19:16] <SilentVerse> rip cryo
[19:16] <%Spirit> knock off is broken
[19:16] <&@MoIk> uh
[19:16] <&@MoIk> remove muk
[19:16] <&@MoIk> ?
[19:16] <%Spirit> y
[19:17] <SilentVerse> i haven't seen that
[19:17] <%Spirit> it was cool in shaymin meta
[19:17] <SilentVerse> and it seems like aids so
[19:17] <SilentVerse> y
[19:17] <%Spirit> but i wouldn't use it anymore
[19:17] <&@MoIk> what about
[19:17] <SilentVerse> klinklang
[19:17] <&@MoIk> regular rotom
[19:17] <SilentVerse> also seems really bad
[19:17] <%Spirit> ^
[19:17] <%Spirit> i agree with sv
[19:17] <SilentVerse> regular rotom
[19:17] <SilentVerse> idk
[19:17] <SilentVerse> d maybe?
[19:17] <%Spirit> y
[19:17] <&@MoIk> its C- atm
[19:17] <SilentVerse> i mean i guess it's
[19:17] <SilentVerse> kinda cool
[19:17] <SilentVerse> b/c it outspeeds lee
[19:17] <SilentVerse> and checks moltres
[19:17] <SilentVerse> but probs not v good otherwise
[19:18] <SilentVerse> hmm
[19:18] <SilentVerse> maybe move bouffalant down
[19:18] <&@MoIk> Kricketune could be C imo
[19:18] <%Spirit> kricketune
[19:18] <&@MoIk> as stupid as it sounds to a new player
[19:18] <%Spirit> is better than leavanny
[19:18] <SilentVerse> :o
[19:18] <&@MoIk> so does that mean
[19:18] <SilentVerse> move leavanny down to d / c-
[19:18] <SilentVerse> kricketune to c
[19:18] <&@MoIk> kricketune to C+
[19:18] <SilentVerse> y/y
[19:18] <%Spirit> y
[19:18] <&@MoIk> or leavanny to C
[19:18] <%Spirit> either way
[19:18] <&@MoIk> how about both in C
[19:18] <&@MoIk> that sounds fine
[19:19] <&@MoIk> to me
[19:19] <%Spirit> kricke should be higher
[19:19] <SilentVerse> k
[19:19] <SilentVerse> well
[19:19] <SilentVerse> krick in c / leavanny in c-
[19:19] <SilentVerse> then
[19:19] <&@MoIk> PRIVATE
[19:19] <SilentVerse> also
[19:19] <SilentVerse> why is rotom-s c+
[19:19] <SilentVerse> oO
[19:20] <&@MoIk> uh
[19:20] <&@MoIk> its an electric
[19:20] <&@MoIk> that beats lee
[19:20] <&@MoIk> and fucks with all the common electric resists
[19:20] <SilentVerse> i mean
[19:20] <&@MoIk> iirc
[19:20] <%Spirit> i'd put it in c
[19:20] <SilentVerse> it still takes a truckload from hjk
[19:20] <SilentVerse> c sounds more fitting y
[19:21] <&@MoIk> ferroseed down to C?
[19:21] <%Spirit> even tho it counters subBU brav, it struggles with just about everything it wants to check and even the stuff that it wants to beat have ways around it
[19:21] <SilentVerse> not sure about ferro
[19:21] <%Spirit> c is prolly best for rotom-s
[19:21] <&@MoIk> um
[19:21] <&@MoIk> what do you guys
[19:21] <SilentVerse> it turns
[19:21] <&@MoIk> think of jellicent
[19:21] <SilentVerse> pedo into a liability
[19:21] <%Spirit> jellicent
[19:21] <%Spirit> is so awkward
[19:21] <%Spirit> i don't even know what to make of that mon
[19:22] <SilentVerse> i feel
[19:22] <SilentVerse> jelli is hideously underrated
[19:22] <SilentVerse> but it seems
[19:22] <&@MoIk> i cant even think of anything it beats that slowking doesnt
[19:22] <SilentVerse> rly hard to work lol
[19:22] <&@MoIk> other than speed boost yanmega
[19:22] <%Spirit> yanmega
[19:22] <SilentVerse> it can come in on lee hjk
[19:22] <%Spirit> ya, other than that idk
[19:22] <%Spirit> amazing how it went from a mid level ou threat one gen to low level ru threat the next
[19:22] <SilentVerse> :[
[19:22] <%Spirit> re: the knock off effect
[19:22] <&@MoIk> so uh bouffalant to C or no
[19:22] <SilentVerse> i think c is fine for bouf
[19:22] <SilentVerse> it's ok but
[19:23] <SilentVerse> it's reallys low and not overly bulky
[19:23] <%Spirit> y
[19:23] <SilentVerse> so unless ur oppo is using alo / regi / drudd
[19:23] <SilentVerse> it's kinda ass
[19:23] <&@MoIk> tyrantrum/sawk?
[19:23] <SilentVerse> tyrantrum
[19:23] <SilentVerse> seems rly rly meh
[19:23] <SilentVerse> but i haven't used it or seen it so
[19:24] <%Spirit> what about lilligant
[19:24] <%Spirit> i feel like that's d rank
[19:24] <%Spirit> sleep nerf, hp nerf, etc
[19:24] <%Spirit> are all kinda bad for it
[19:24] <%Spirit> and plus there's registeel
[19:24] <SilentVerse> it's
[19:24] <SilentVerse> really matchup dependent i think
[19:24] <&@MoIk> i can see i
[19:24] <&@MoIk> t
[19:24] <SilentVerse> but i think d is fine yeah
[19:25] <&@MoIk> alright
[19:25] <&@MoIk> anything in B-
[19:25] <&@MoIk> that could be moved down to C+
[19:25] <&@MoIk> ?
[19:25] <SilentVerse> miltank?
[19:25] <SilentVerse> uxie too probs
[19:25] <%Spirit> i can agree w/that even tho i love me cow
[19:25] <%Spirit> :[
[19:25] <SilentVerse> :[
[19:25] <SilentVerse> ludicolo maybe
[19:25] <SilentVerse> reliant on rain so
[19:26] <SilentVerse> unless av ludi
[19:26] <SilentVerse> is a thing now
[19:26] <&@MoIk> ludicolo doesnt really need to be on a full rain team imo
[19:26] <%Spirit> ludi could drop too
[19:27] <&@MoIk> what about uxie
[19:27] <&@MoIk> and uh
[19:27] <&@MoIk> xatu
[19:27] <SilentVerse> uxie for c y
[19:27] <SilentVerse> xatu
[19:27] <SilentVerse> idk
[19:27] <%Spirit> uxie is so underexplored
[19:27] <&@MoIk> xatu seems underwhelming
[19:27] <SilentVerse> i think xatu
[19:27] <SilentVerse> could be fun on voltturn
[19:27] <SilentVerse> but
[19:27] <SilentVerse> the fact that it loses
[19:27] <SilentVerse> to so many sr users
[19:27] <SilentVerse> is rly shitty lol
[19:27] <%Spirit> ^
[19:27] <%Spirit> that's what i dislike about it
[19:28] <&@MoIk> and uh
[19:28] <&@MoIk> shuckle left
[19:28] <%Spirit> if it could be rhyperior it would be p good in b
[19:28] <&@MoIk> so it cant counter webs anymore
[19:28] <%Spirit> **beat
[19:28] <SilentVerse> charti berry xatu imo
[19:28] <SilentVerse> but yeah, i guess
[19:28] <%Spirit> also, can we move kanga down to d or unrank it
[19:28] <%Spirit> lol
[19:28] <SilentVerse> move xatu and uxie to c
[19:28] <%Spirit> i feel like even ambipom outclasses it
[19:28] <%Spirit> ...
[19:28] <SilentVerse> kanga
[19:29] <SilentVerse> seems p bad ya
[19:29] <SilentVerse> donked by alo rhyp doublade
[19:29] <%Spirit> ya
[19:29] <%Spirit> at least ambi can spam knock off / dick rhy with seed bomb
[19:29] <&@MoIk> and ambipom is garbage
[19:29] <&@MoIk> so ya
[19:29] <&@MoIk> lol
[19:30] <%Spirit> what about golurk
[19:30] <SilentVerse> seems bad
[19:30] <%Spirit> i feel like cb is done better by perior
[19:30] <%Spirit> and sr is a shitty spin blocker
[19:30] <SilentVerse> i mean
[19:31] <&@MoIk> iirc
[19:31] <SilentVerse> i guess it can ice punch
[19:31] <SilentVerse> to donk gligars
[19:31] <SilentVerse> but then u realize
[19:33] <%Spirit> >.>
[19:33] <%Spirit> either no rank or d
[19:34] <&@MoIk> its np lol
[19:36] <%Spirit> uhhh also what rank for audino
[19:36] <&@MoIk> its like
[19:36] <&@MoIk> lickilicky
[19:36] <&@MoIk> with worse stats and no dtail
[19:36] <&@MoIk> but with regen
[19:36] <%Spirit> and taunt bait
[19:36] <&@MoIk> it still gets KO tho
[19:36] <&@MoIk> i checked that
[19:36] <%Spirit> hmmm
[19:37] <%Spirit> i'd move it down imo
[19:37] <%Spirit> cause everytime i tried to use a wish passer on a defensive build
[19:37] <%Spirit> there was always something better
[19:37] <%Spirit> it just doesn't fit
[19:37] <%Spirit> aroma has typing + taunt immune
[19:37] <%Spirit> licki is taunt immune + can phase

i hate this post and always have - spirit

 

[ForgottenOnes]

Updates!


EDIT2: Also, should Feraligatr get a rank? The Swords Dance set recieves competition in this metagame from Samurott since it has Megahorn to get past Tangrowth and OHKO Slowking (learns Knock Off too!), but Feraligatr still has access to Dragon Dance to help seperate itself from the crowd.

Sample sets for all Feraligatr :3 edit by me :3

Feraligatr @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake

I really think Feraligatr is not bad. I mean in terms of competition, yeah SD has competition with Samurott. But Feraligatr can run DD. It can outrun a lot of Pokemon. Plus the bulk helps a bit. Not only that, Samurott's base attack is lower than Feraligatr's. The only thing Samurott has higher is HP and SpA. HP is bulk I guess. But Feraligatr has more Defense and Special Defense. SpA is 108 while Feraligatr's is 105. I mean not too much of a difference.

 

[Kyuzeth]

I really think Feraligatr is not bad. I mean in terms of competition, yeah SD has competition with Samurott. But Feraligatr can run DD. It can outrun a lot of Pokemon. Plus the bulk helps a bit. Not only that, Samurott's base attack is lower than Feraligatr's. The only thing Samurott has higher is HP and SpA. HP is bulk I guess. But Feraligatr has more Defense and Special Defense. SpA is 108 while Feraligatr's is 105. I mean not too much of a difference.

False. Samurott has 100 Atk/108 SAtk, while Feraligatr has 105 Atk/79 SAtk, so that means Feraligatr has a much lower Special Attack stat and can't work as a mixed attacker in the slightest.

 

[ForgottenOnes]

False. Samurott has 100 Atk/108 SAtk, while Feraligatr has 105 Atk/79 SAtk, so that means Feraligatr has a much lower Special Attack stat and can't work as a mixed attacker in the slightest.

Yea, I did realize that.Sometimes Mixed Attacker isn't as good as a sole Physical Attacker, or Special Attacker. In this case, Feraligatr's attack stat is quite high. Not only that Feraligatr can boost its speed with Dragon Dance, while Samurott cannot. Also, Feraligatr's defense stats are a bit higher as well. I believe it deserves at the very least a spot in the RU viability rankings.

 

[Kyuzeth]

Yea, I did realize that.Sometimes Mixed Attacker isn't as good as a sole Physical Attacker, or Special Attacker. In this case, Feraligatr's attack stat is quite high. Not only that Feraligatr can boost its speed with Dragon Dance, while Samurott cannot. Also, Feraligatr's defense stats are a bit higher as well. I believe it deserves at the very least a spot in the RU viability rankings.

Feraligatr is overall somewhat bulkier and has DD to set itself apart from Samurott, yes, but in this tier, mixed attackers are incredibly dangerous due to being able to hit multiple targets with a single moveset. Samurott can work as a good mixed attacker thanks to getting Megahorn to deal with Slowking and other Psychic-types, while Grass-types are generally dealt with using Ice Beam or Megahorn. I do agree Feraligatr needs to be ranked, probably in C+ alongside Samurott.

 

[Ares]

So after reading that long irc discussion I would just like to bring up some of the things that I think should move down that were not mentioned in the chat.

Mightyena- havent really seen this at all in RU, but from what I have seen of it in NU it has been a really underwhelming sweeper unless it can get up a moxie boost and even then it is easily countered. (and I imagine this is even more so in a tier with better walls)

Chatot- Chatot relies way to much on getting confusion hax with chatter and the damage output from even a +2 boomburst is pretty meh and done much better by Exploud who has better bulk and only one less point in SpA. I could see this moving down.

Linoone- Linoone if matched up right can destroy with a +6 E-speed, however it is very rarely matched up against something where it can get the Belly Drum off and survive the attack. Not to mention it gets hard walled by a number of things. I could see this moving down to D or being unlisted.

As far as the things talked about being moved down in the irc chat, I agree with pretty much all of them.

Feraligatr should have a rank and in fact probably is a little bit better than samurott on the physical sets, it cant really compete on the special side. So I agree with listing them side by side.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

SilentVerse you forgot DD/Block/Rest/attack gate for beating mola