The Everything NFL Punter Thread - 2014/2015 Season

[Killah]

Josh Gordon to possibly avoid suspension?

Is Travelle Wharton the third guy to retire from the Panthers O-Line or is this the same guy who was considering it during the summer after Gross left? If it's the third I can see the Panthers at the bottom of the division.

he was considering it over the summer, but he's actually the 4th to retire along with Hangartner and Byers. Both were backups and occasional part time starters, but Hangartner was a free agent that was just signed to replace Byers's roster spot after a season-ending injury in November.

 

[CPrime]

Hey guys, something I've been curious about for a while now is where to find "complete" stats on players. More importantly, on defensive players. Due to the Patrick Peterson contract, some guy wrote on Twitter about "Sherman and Peterson allowed 8 TDs last year and Peterson gave up 7 of those."
I'm just wondering where to find stats like that. NFL and ESPN only list positive stats like passes defensed, interceptions, ad all that. I'm much more interested in times targeted against that dback, completion % vs that dback, TDs given up, or even number of times that dback got beaten but the QB didn't get the ball to the open receiver.
Thanks

 

[Homeslice]

Hey guys, something I've been curious about for a while now is where to find "complete" stats on players. More importantly, on defensive players. Due to the Patrick Peterson contract, some guy wrote on Twitter about "Sherman and Peterson allowed 8 TDs last year and Peterson gave up 7 of those."
I'm just wondering where to find stats like that. NFL and ESPN only list positive stats like passes defensed, interceptions, ad all that. I'm much more interested in times targeted against that dback, completion % vs that dback, TDs given up, or even number of times that dback got beaten but the QB didn't get the ball to the open receiver.
Thanks

Pro football focus has a lot of these kinds of stats floating around their site, just take some time to look.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/
Their featured article today is the best run stopping DBs, for example. They take stats and break them down even more.

 

[CPrime]

I did a bit of reading there but still couldn't get the info I want. They have plenty of good teaser data on the website but they want money for the rest.
On another note, preseason in a couple days? It's not much but it's something...

 

[DM]

I haven't read many of these sites in months (since the Bills' season stopped being important last year), so I dunno if they're pay also, but http://www.footballoutsiders.com/ is another great one.

 

[Prof. Almeida]

Game Pass renewed 'till July, 2015 o/

 

[Mr.E]

I vaguely remembered I wanted to voice my opinion on the Ray Rice shit lately. Maybe I'm a little late by now but anyway, fuck all the people calling for his head. I might catch flack for it but I think his two-game suspension is adequate. Perhaps he deserves some sort of punishment for giving the league a bad image but assault, domestic violence are less severe than the rape allegations that surrounded Roflsberger and his behavior didn't affect the integrity of the game like PEDs. He doesn't need to be punished as or more severely to "send a message." The NFL is not the fucking morality police and he's already been through the legal system which does handle these situations.

Furthermore, it's not like they completely ignored the situation. They punished Rice for his behavior, that means it's not okay. Unless the NFL is going to assign "parole officers" to high-risk players to keep an eye on them 24/7, there's nothing more the NFL at that point to stop this behavior. It's up to Rice and everyone else to be responsible fucking adults and not engage in it. Now, one might say the punishment isn't enough of a deterrent but that's not even close to saying, "Domestic violence is okay." It's not like he earned an award for it.

 

[Imanalt]

The NFL is not the fucking morality police and he's already been through the legal system which does handle these situations.

Then why do they keep giving big suspensions for pot?

 

[CPrime]

Then why do they keep giving big suspensions for pot?

Goodell commented on that, saying it's because of repeated offenses. Even so, I feel like that's a weak cop out. If it were PEDs or other acts that could be labeled as cheating, sure, the punishment should ramp up. But weed? It's legal in a couple states now and athletes certainly aren't getting a competitive advantage from it.

 

[WaterBomb]

Goodell commented on that, saying it's because of repeated offenses. Even so, I feel like that's a weak cop out. If it were PEDs or other acts that could be labeled as cheating, sure, the punishment should ramp up. But weed? It's legal in a couple states now and athletes certainly aren't getting a competitive advantage from it.

Are you suggesting weed does not enhance performance!?!

 

[TheValkyries]

It's not the NFL's job to police its players and make sure they do good deeds. They handed no punishment whatsoever to Aaron Hernandez for fucking murdering a dude. But holy fuck if you're gonna actually give a punishment for something don't make the punishment lighter than you would for lesser transgressions. A stray punch at a dude's helmeted head in a game could potentially earn you more games suspended than if you knock your own wife unconscious apparently. That's MAD fucked up.

 

[Shinryu]

So...Dalton gets 6 years/$115 million; mediocrity abd R1 exits in the playoffs for the Bengals to ensue?

 

[Killah]

It's not the NFL's job to police its players and make sure they do good deeds. They handed no punishment whatsoever to Aaron Hernandez for fucking murdering a dude. But holy fuck if you're gonna actually give a punishment for something don't make the punishment lighter than you would for lesser transgressions. A stray punch at a dude's helmeted head in a game could potentially earn you more games suspended than if you knock your own wife unconscious apparently. That's MAD fucked up.

No, but the players represent the NFL and it is the NFL's job to ensure that the players give the NFL a proper image. They're doing a piss poor job in doing so, but that's that the suspensions are for.

Hernandez is a special case, but because he was released he didn't "need" to get punished. If, for whatever reason, he was released from jail today and signed with a team tomorrow, he would then receive whatever suspension the NFL has for repeated murderers (probably around 4 games or so).

So...Dalton gets 6 years/$115 million; mediocrity abd R1 exits in the playoffs for the Bengals to ensue?

Not too long ago, someone from the Bengals front office said they wanted Dalton's contract to be similar to Kaepernick's, and that's pretty much what they did. Very little guaranteed money ($17 million, of which I think $7 million is in cap hit for this year), a very low cap hit in 2014 and 2015 with a roster bonus after next season, then pretty hefty raises over the last four years of the contract. The actual value of the contract is "only" $96 million, with another $19 million in contract escalators that are probably performance based.

Realistically, they could cut him this year or next year and only owe him a little bit of dead money, or any other year as most of his money is in actual salary rather than guaranteed money. All in all it's a fairly team friendly deal, and Dalton won't see all of that money unless he's earned it.

 

[Mercy]

I vaguely remembered I wanted to voice my opinion on the Ray Rice shit lately. Maybe I'm a little late by now but anyway, fuck all the people calling for his head. I might catch flack for it but I think his two-game suspension is adequate. Perhaps he deserves some sort of punishment for giving the league a bad image but assault, domestic violence are less severe than the rape allegations that surrounded Roflsberger and his behavior didn't affect the integrity of the game like PEDs. He doesn't need to be punished as or more severely to "send a message." The NFL is not the fucking morality police and he's already been through the legal system which does handle these situations.

Roethlisberger was never charged, while there is actual video evidence of Rice dragging his unconscious fiancée out of an elevator. Rice has also been indicted for for third-degree aggravated assault.

Its a joke that Roethlisberger got 6 games and Rice got only 2.

 

[Pretzels]

Gonna recommend the "Why your Team Sucks" Deadspin series for anyone that needs a laugh.


http://deadspin.com/why-your-team-sucks-2014-tennessee-titans-1615667727


Every day A new one comes out for each team until the season starts.

 

[Killah]

Roethlisberger was never charged, while there is actual video evidence of Rice dragging his unconscious fiancée out of an elevator. Rice has also been indicted for for third-degree aggravated assault.

Its a joke that Roethlisberger got 6 games and Rice got only 2.

Apparently the authorities never even showed the NFL the tape, so they did not watch it/let it influence their decision. Of course, the police are supposed to have the "full version" of the tape which includes video from inside the elevator, which we/the media can only assume. I don't really know why neither the police or the NFL doesn't deem this important, but I'm sure they have a reason (justified or not).

 

[Prof. Almeida]

I believe the NFL has nothing to do with a player's personal life. Let justice do justice.

regarding Pot, I feel it shouldn't be banned. HOWEvER, as it is, there is this three-step program from NFL. Gordon was in step 3, he failed a test, he got suspended for a year, it's on the rules.

About Dalton's contract, it's ridiculous you believe those numbers. They are never like that.

From PFT:

"The most important numbers are the numbers fully guaranteed at signing. Dalton receives a signing bonus of $12 million and a roster bonus in three days of $5 million. That’s a total of $17 million out of the gates. Coupled with his $986,000 base salary (which isn’t guaranteed as a legal matter but it is as a practical matter), Dalton will make $18 million in the first year of the deal.

Then, on the third day of the 2015 league year in March, Dalton earns a $4 million roster bonus. He also has a $3 million non-guaranteed base salary in 2015. That’s $25 million over two years."

Full thing here: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...7-million-now-22-million-through-early-march/

IT's basically a two-year deal of 25 kk, with multi 1-year options.

 

[Mr.E]

Roethlisberger was never charged, while there is actual video evidence of Rice dragging his unconscious fiancée out of an elevator. Rice has also been indicted for for third-degree aggravated assault.

Its a joke that Roethlisberger got 6 games and Rice got only 2.

Oh, I don't disagree that roflsberger didn't get a fair shake but as far as being punished for tarnishing the image of the league? It was his second "offense" (insofar as the allegations were not proven true, his connection to the alleged incidents still make the NFL look bad) and rape is much more serious than assault. Rice did not deserve a greater punishment and didn't receive one.

Maybe he deserved an equal punishment, though, and/or Ben deserved a lesser one than what he got.

 

[DM]

I think trying to equate/quantify and put a value on violence against women is ridiculous. Saying "rape is much more serious than assault" downplays what Ray Rice did to that woman and minimizes her as a human being. Considering the facts of domestic abuse and how the victims so often hide their torment, it is conjecture for any of us to say "this was a one-time event" because, in all likelihood, it wasn't.

Ben's suspension started out at 8 games iirc, and was then appealed down to 6. Rice should have started right there as well. No, the NFL isn't necessarily supposed to be the morality police for the players, but when you're a multi-billion dollar national pastime, guess what? You become that by default.

 

[some hero]

Did they always do this though? I never heard of Lawrence Taylor ever getting suspended.

 

[DM]

Yeah, and he and Michael Irvin were both raging cokeheads, and the Buffalo Bills of the 1990s were notorious partiers that were too hungover to play Super Bowl XXVII. Social media and the 24-hour news cycle have completely changed how the sport is covered, there's no way you can compare the eras.

 

[Prof. Almeida]

Talking about media, I'm hating the Johnny Football circus NFL Network is doing. Every other news is about Browns camp. Nobody is putting more pressure on the boy's shoulder than the media. Let Hoyer be the starter, let Manziel get used to pro-level football, and then you can hype.

 

[Mr.E]

I think trying to equate/quantify and put a value on violence against women is ridiculous. Saying "rape is much more serious than assault" downplays what Ray Rice did to that woman and minimizes her as a human being. Considering the facts of domestic abuse and how the victims so often hide their torment, it is conjecture for any of us to say "this was a one-time event" because, in all likelihood, it wasn't.

Oh don't give me that shit. I'm not downplaying anything, I'm just speaking matter of factly. Minimizing Ms. Palmer as a human being would be continuing to rail on Rice for his actions after she, the (greater) victim of the incident, already forgave him and moved on. *ahem*

Is this the result of a pattern of abuse? Perhaps, but we the general public have no evidence to support that assertion. All we know is that she forgave him and they are still together, as such her decision should be respected. It could easily have been a one-time thing, alcohol being involved on both ends is a likely cause, and assuming otherwise is unfair to Rice. The legal system already had its way with Rice. "Quantifying" what his punishment from the NFL should be is all that remains to be discussed.

And honestly, I'm all for the punishment he received. (And yeah, Ben would've been nice too since he wasn't proven to have done anything wrong at all.) It still says "this is unacceptable behavior" without excessively pouring it on for a situation that is completely unrelated to his relationship with the NFL. You know who should've been suspended longer? Haynesworth for stomping on Gurode's head.

Maybe I just don't like that the rules are different for public figures. *shrug* Joe Blow working at Machine Welding Inc. isn't getting punished by his employer for anything he does outside of work, insofar as it doesn't affect his job performance (like missing work because he's in jail). I understand it but I also think the problem is mostly self-correcting anyway. CEOs get fired when sales start dropping, unpopular politicians don't get re-elected, etc.

 

[WaterBomb]

Maybe I just don't like that the rules are different for public figures. *shrug* Joe Blow working at Machine Welding Inc. isn't getting punished by his employer for anything he does outside of work, insofar as it doesn't affect his job performance (like missing work because he's in jail). I understand it but I also think the problem is mostly self-correcting anyway. CEOs get fired when sales start dropping, unpopular politicians don't get re-elected, etc.

Are you saying that public figures get treated more harshly by the justice system?

 

[DM]

Talking about media, I'm hating the Johnny Football circus NFL Network is doing. Every other news is about Browns camp. Nobody is putting more pressure on the boy's shoulder than the media. Let Hoyer be the starter, let Manziel get used to pro-level football, and then you can hype.

Sounds like someone needs to stop watching ESPN. There are much better NFL/sports news sources out there, you know.

Oh don't give me that shit. I'm not downplaying anything, I'm just speaking matter of factly. Minimizing Ms. Palmer as a human being would be continuing to rail on Rice for his actions after she, the (greater) victim of the incident, already forgave him and moved on. *ahem*

This paragraph shows a complete and utter lack of understanding about how domestic violence and physical/mental abuse work. You even go on to say that maybe there is more abuse, but I guess... we aren't supposed to care?

And honestly, I'm all for the punishment he received. (And yeah, Ben would've been nice too since he wasn't proven to have done anything wrong at all.) It still says "this is unacceptable behavior" without excessively pouring it on for a situation that is completely unrelated to his relationship with the NFL.

Tell that to the 40% of the NFL fanbase that is female that is currently up in arms. 2 games sends the wrong message.

You know who should've been suspended longer? Haynesworth for stomping on Gurode's head.

100% agreed. But if we've learned anything from professional sports (mostly NFL/NHL here), it's that the suspensions are VERY RARELY harsh enough to have any punitive or deterrent effect.

Maybe I just don't like that the rules are different for public figures. *shrug* Joe Blow working at Machine Welding Inc. isn't getting punished by his employer for anything he does outside of work, insofar as it doesn't affect his job performance (like missing work because he's in jail). I understand it but I also think the problem is mostly self-correcting anyway. CEOs get fired when sales start dropping, unpopular politicians don't get re-elected, etc.

100% agreed here as well. I have had this conversation a bunch of times recently, as it happens. People put these celebrities up on a pedestal because they play a sport very well, or can act in movies, or play music that we like, but they're still fucking people with the same fucking problems that Joe Blow has. The only difference is the public at large feels they have a right to hear all about it, and they really don't.