Volcarona is strong, fast, and can boost easily. It only has one flaw: a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock. Play well and use a spinner and it will destroy teams.
Bye bug
Bye bug
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np: XY UU Stage 2 - Light Em Up
- Thread starter kokoloko
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Damn I didn't even finish climbing the ladder with Venomoth Offense.
Use Fletchinder, Volcarona is EZPZ.
But for real, easy set-up, great coverage, and its not like its hard to keep Stealth Rock off the field. When it gets two boosts, its pretty much unstoppable bar Fletchinder. Open and shut, leave it banned.
But for real, easy set-up, great coverage, and its not like its hard to keep Stealth Rock off the field. When it gets two boosts, its pretty much unstoppable bar Fletchinder. Open and shut, leave it banned.
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Volcarona Pros:
Fire Typing allows it to set up on non-Toxic Florges/Aromatisse
Great base 135 sp atk with crucial 100 speed
Quiver Dance
Fiery Dance-attacking + boosting at same time! But Fire Blast is usually better
Access to roost
Fletchinder! Ka-caw!!
Volcarona Cons:
SR Weak :-(
Pink Blob Blissey
Coverage mainly limited to Fire/Bug/Hidden Power/Giga Drain
Base 60 Def hurts
Volcarona is definitely a powerhouse. Power-wise, it makes Venomoth look like a teeny tiny butterfree lol It can't pass the boosts on nor does it have Wonderskin, so it's more about power and ability to check/counter.
Checks and Counters
Mega Aerodactyl
Can take Bug/Fire Moves at +3, Giga Drain at +2 with SR on the field and a +1 HP Rock and easily OHKO with SE.
Blissey:
Moth needs to be at +3 before it has a significant chance to 2HKO Blissey.
Flecthinder:
252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 384-452 (123 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
'nuff said
Mega Blastoise:
Can tank a +2 Giga Drain and OHKO with Water Pulse/Hydro Pump.
Scarf Ape/Shao:
Outspeed at +1 and easily OHKO with Stone Edge (or pretty close to OHKO with Ape's Flare Blitz)
I'm on the fence about Volc. SR really shouldn't be an argument against Volc (even though it's going to come up). We have a plethora of Defoggers and Spinners in the tier, all are pretty viable.
Fire Typing allows it to set up on non-Toxic Florges/Aromatisse
Great base 135 sp atk with crucial 100 speed
Quiver Dance
Fiery Dance-attacking + boosting at same time! But Fire Blast is usually better
Access to roost
Fletchinder! Ka-caw!!
Volcarona Cons:
SR Weak :-(
Pink Blob Blissey
Coverage mainly limited to Fire/Bug/Hidden Power/Giga Drain
Base 60 Def hurts
Volcarona is definitely a powerhouse. Power-wise, it makes Venomoth look like a teeny tiny butterfree lol It can't pass the boosts on nor does it have Wonderskin, so it's more about power and ability to check/counter.
Checks and Counters
Mega Aerodactyl
Can take Bug/Fire Moves at +3, Giga Drain at +2 with SR on the field and a +1 HP Rock and easily OHKO with SE.
Blissey:
Moth needs to be at +3 before it has a significant chance to 2HKO Blissey.
Flecthinder:
252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 384-452 (123 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
'nuff said
Mega Blastoise:
Can tank a +2 Giga Drain and OHKO with Water Pulse/Hydro Pump.
Scarf Ape/Shao:
Outspeed at +1 and easily OHKO with Stone Edge (or pretty close to OHKO with Ape's Flare Blitz)
I'm on the fence about Volc. SR really shouldn't be an argument against Volc (even though it's going to come up). We have a plethora of Defoggers and Spinners in the tier, all are pretty viable.
Volcarona is an interesting pokemon as teams without fast physical attackers or status conditions get ruined by this bug. It Quiver Dances until it doesn't want to risk a critical hit anymore and sweeps the opposing team. Scalds do less and less damage every turn as Volcarona can Roost off the damage. I feel the best thing a person can do is switch out into a scarfed pokemon over base 100 speed and has Stone Edge/Rock Slide to beat it. Sure there are counters like Dragalge and Tentacruel, but its one of those pokemon you can't give more than one free turn to set up as you attempt Toxic stalling. One could say "Stealth Rock and Roar. Bye bye bug", but I don't feel like an entry hazard should be your only counter to a pokemon as they can be taken away with Rapid Spin or even by yourself with Defog. Though Volcarona would have a mixed time in standard play (fairy resisting bug while fire resisting fairy), it would give it a less easier time to set up and make it more fair in that environment.
I love Volcarona, but I think it should join Venomoth in the borderline tier.
I love Volcarona, but I think it should join Venomoth in the borderline tier.
Shouldn't Fletchinder be in the "Cons" list? Also, your Mega Blastoise summary is very... Interesting. What kind of +2 Giga Drain are we talking about? Because after Rocks you have a worse-than-not chance (does that make sense?) to survive +2 252 SpA Giga Drain. You do well over half with Water Pulse, but it still tanks the shit out of it and can do some seriously nasty damage to your team. Once again, Mega Aero seems to be check #1. God, I hate that thing.
I am so fking glad that Venomoth is BL. Tbh I hope Volcarona doesn't take long as clearly it is too powerful for UU. As already stated, many Defoggers/Spinners in UU are very viable and thus it isn't that hard to keep rocks off the field, allowing Volcarona to sweep. Another problem with Volcarona is the fact that it not only can set up easily, but it increases its bulk whilst doing it, meaning most of the special attacking checks it could have are now limited to physical attackers, which makes Mega Aerodactyl the best check to Volcarona obviously. Granted its weak Defense and HP stat means a prick can hurt it, but that is why there is a bulky set which ends up garnering Volcarona 2 boosts usually and thus can still outspeed and take hits at the same time.
Now while all that seemingly makes Volcarona a shoo-in for BL, there are some flaws it has. It has a bit of 4MSS, as it wants its STABs, QD, Giga Drain, and HP Rock to cover everything that threatens it. And the bulky set has no coverage, which is why it is usually left to the wayside for the more offensively inclined set, leaving it weak to many neutral, and super effective, physical hits.
TL;DR Ban Volcarona. Bring on the next test.
Now while all that seemingly makes Volcarona a shoo-in for BL, there are some flaws it has. It has a bit of 4MSS, as it wants its STABs, QD, Giga Drain, and HP Rock to cover everything that threatens it. And the bulky set has no coverage, which is why it is usually left to the wayside for the more offensively inclined set, leaving it weak to many neutral, and super effective, physical hits.
TL;DR Ban Volcarona. Bring on the next test.
In my humble opinion, Volcarona has no business in UU. It's drop in OU can be attributed to Talonflame and being somewhat outclassed by Charizard-Y, it's still a top-flight Pokemon. It sets up on almost every special wall in the tier and so if it gets in clean, something is going to die. The stealth rock weakness is not difficult to work around in the current metagame, and does not significantly limit its unrivaled offensive potential.
As much as I enjoyed using it when it dropped, Volcarona belongs in BL.
As much as I enjoyed using it when it dropped, Volcarona belongs in BL.
I've seen a few comments on how Volcarona can set up on special walls, when most special walls carry Toxic or Thunder Wave. There are a few ways around these moves, the two most reliable being Lum Berry, which only works once and hurts the offensive Quiver Dance set's power in giving up Life Orb, and Substitute, which exacerbates Volcarona's 4MSS. So how does Volcarona have free rein on these walls?
Sorta playing Devil's Advocate, I'm not super inclined one way or another from my personal experience (about the same as Venomoth: I never saw this thing prior its initial BL vote). I am aware of the RestoChesto set for dealing with status, but with a Pokemon as vulnerable and as 4MSS-y as Volcarona, I feel like that's a more niche set in the face of the bulky booster and offensive QD and not as important a talking point.
Sorta playing Devil's Advocate, I'm not super inclined one way or another from my personal experience (about the same as Venomoth: I never saw this thing prior its initial BL vote). I am aware of the RestoChesto set for dealing with status, but with a Pokemon as vulnerable and as 4MSS-y as Volcarona, I feel like that's a more niche set in the face of the bulky booster and offensive QD and not as important a talking point.
This is just a theorymon post since I don't play this tier, but you seem to have a whole slew of checks and counters available for this thing. I'll just list/desribe:
Blissey: Seismic Toss and Toxic can quite comfortably deal with Volc. Reliable recovery as well.
Mega Aerodactyl: tank anything, outspeeds the bulky set even at +1 and easily OHKOs.
Chandelure: Fire immunity and 4x Bug resist, as well as Giga Drain resist. Specs Shadow Ball hammers away at it more than can be recovered.
Snorlax: takes Fire Blast better than Blissey, can outmuscle it or phaze it with Whirlwind
Dragalge: resists all commonly used moves, has high special bulk, can't be set up on due to Dragon Tail/Haze and can set Toxic Spikes up so next time Volc comes in it gets poisoned.
Suicune: Bulk, resist to strongest STAB, Roar/CM and super effective STAB of its own
Infernape: can come in and kill with Flare Blitz/Stone Edge, Scarf outspeeds at +1
Fletchinder: can not only revenge kill but even come in on nigh anything
Mienshao: Scarf outspeeds and kills
Arcanine: specially bulky set, resists STABs, reliable recovery, can hammer it with Flare Blitz + XSpeed, Roar
Crobat: I saw a RMT with a Scarf Crobat? Dunno how viable that is but the guy said he peaked high and apparently UU ladder is the most competitive of all
Entry hazards: vulnerabilty to all of them, massive vulnerability to the most common one.
I'm sure there are a bunch of others I've missed...
Blissey: Seismic Toss and Toxic can quite comfortably deal with Volc. Reliable recovery as well.
Mega Aerodactyl: tank anything, outspeeds the bulky set even at +1 and easily OHKOs.
Chandelure: Fire immunity and 4x Bug resist, as well as Giga Drain resist. Specs Shadow Ball hammers away at it more than can be recovered.
Snorlax: takes Fire Blast better than Blissey, can outmuscle it or phaze it with Whirlwind
Dragalge: resists all commonly used moves, has high special bulk, can't be set up on due to Dragon Tail/Haze and can set Toxic Spikes up so next time Volc comes in it gets poisoned.
Suicune: Bulk, resist to strongest STAB, Roar/CM and super effective STAB of its own
Infernape: can come in and kill with Flare Blitz/Stone Edge, Scarf outspeeds at +1
Fletchinder: can not only revenge kill but even come in on nigh anything
Mienshao: Scarf outspeeds and kills
Arcanine: specially bulky set, resists STABs, reliable recovery, can hammer it with Flare Blitz + XSpeed, Roar
Crobat: I saw a RMT with a Scarf Crobat? Dunno how viable that is but the guy said he peaked high and apparently UU ladder is the most competitive of all
Entry hazards: vulnerabilty to all of them, massive vulnerability to the most common one.
I'm sure there are a bunch of others I've missed...
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I hate the fact that half the comments are "broken bug, next suspect please" when Volcorona is far less broken than half the BL list. For starters, I think the environment changes since it's last visit in UU should be addressed. Mainly just Mega-Zam got banned and Haxorus got free but trends like the huge rise in M-Aero's popularity are a plus for dealing with Volc. While it is clearly currently a top threat, as there were many ways to deal with him from both offense and stall and anything in between, there are still those ways now and I'm eager try it out and hope for it's stay.
The difference I see between Venomoth and Volcarona is that Volcarona is extremely predictable and relatively easy to beat as detailed by Cherub Agent 's post. You didn't have to just prepare for Venomoth Quiver Dancing, you also had to account for the fact Taunt didn't work 50% of the time, Sleep Powder + Sleep Turns and the biggest thing, that a +2 +2 +2 Mega Blastoise is a HELL of a lot scarier than a +2 +2 +2 Venomoth and that it could basically pass into whatever it wanted depending on the match up so Pokemon like Infernape or Mienshao couldn't come in and 'revenge it'. So I do agree with Sleepless in that people are FAR overestimating how good Volcarona is, especially in this metagame with how Offensive (and especially Physically Orientated which doesn't bode well for Volcarona since it has a terrible Defensive stat) and honestly, couple that with the 4x SR weakness (which I know isn't the entire basis of an argument hence why there are lines before this detailing why it isn't my only logic) but let's be honest, there is a reason why things like Fletchinder, Moltres, Vivillon etc aren't in higher tiers, because that SR weakness really weighs in heavily on the freedom it has. Regardless, don't write off Volc so quickly because I don't honestly think it's as ridiculous OP as people are claiming but only time will tell, have fun on the ladder and make sure you bring back your experiences (replays, thoughts etc) later on down the track when you can get a better representation of if Volcarona is or isn't broken n_n
Base 135 SpA, Base 100 speed, access to Quiver Dance, chance to boost SpA with Fiery Dance, stopped by Fletchinder (gotta get it in safely though), Blissey, and maybe Goodra. Leave this thing BL.
volcarona wasn't all that broken during the two-week test period it had in uu when it first droped, imo. in theory, yes, its incredibly difficult to stop, but the highly offensive pace of the metagame and the omnipresence of its best checks (mega aero, infernape, blissey) made it not-so-great in practice. half the checks cherub listed are garbdix, but still, volcarona just has a much harder time in practice than in theory.
also, use hp water people. it hits everything. Recommended by koko, but brought up by Ernesto .–. Fair world, this is
also, use hp water people. it hits everything. Recommended by koko, but brought up by Ernesto .–. Fair world, this is
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I personally think that Volcarona can run free for the UU tier. In fact, unlike Venomoth, Volcarona lacks of sleep move which means it has much less chance of setup more than one time when facing offensive threats, not counting the fact it has not the ability to pass its boost to a random recipient that can easily 6-0 anyone. On the other hand, it has a perfect coverage and a good bulk too, wich makes it more annoying to defensive teams than to offensive ones, as someone already said it can easily setup on some defensive wall, something like Old School ChestoRest for example could work very well even against some special wall that carry status moves, first on the list is a common check named Blissey; Because of its 4x weakness to Rocks, when it faces offensive teams is really hard to setup since it pratically needs a clean field to perform its job well, pressing the opponent hazard cleaner could be a good strat to prevent it from setupping. It is also not very versatile, wich makes it predictable, It deserves to stay in UU imo, but please dont start with retarded skilless strats like Double screener + Volcarona.
Volcarona is nowhere near as good as people make it out to be. Its an extremely flawed pokemon, 4x rock weak sucks, 65 def sucks in such a physical meta (thanks blissey...), its counters and checks are absolutely everywhere, that was my opinion during the period it was allowed and i still stand by it. Its really a good fucking hypocrisy for a tier that has learned to deal with haxorus, hydreigon, infernape, lucario and victini to even dare to say that volcarona should be banned lol.
Edit: Not sure if ''hypocrisy'' is the best word but basically my point is, if we can deal with these beasts, we can deal with volcarona.
Edit: Not sure if ''hypocrisy'' is the best word but basically my point is, if we can deal with these beasts, we can deal with volcarona.
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I made a team with Volcarona paired with Banded dugtrio and it has been working out very well. Dugtrio traps stuff like Blissey, fire types and other stuff Volc struggles with.
Here's a game I just played to show them off a bit. I did make a few missplays forgetting that dugtrio can't trap ghost types and it also struggles a bit with wish protect blissey but if it's soft boiled blisssey it can trap it no problem. So I suggest you trying out Volc + Dugtrio it's very fun and works great.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-147804116
Here's a game I just played to show them off a bit. I did make a few missplays forgetting that dugtrio can't trap ghost types and it also struggles a bit with wish protect blissey but if it's soft boiled blisssey it can trap it no problem. So I suggest you trying out Volc + Dugtrio it's very fun and works great.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-147804116
I have to agree with the previous posts. Volcarona is pretty manageable, so long as it doesn't get too many boosts. And unlike Haxorus, it has plenty of checks and solid counters to prevent it from breaking the tier. If it anything, it just adds to Fletchinder's kill list (I love Fletchinder in this tier)
I feel like threats such as Infernape and Haxarous are definitely more threatening to most teams than Volcarona. With SR and Spikes being prevalent, it is not too difficult to make sure Volc is in check. Sure, removing hazards are easy than they once were, but getting them back up isn't hard either with such reliable SR setters, such as Forretress, Donphan, and Hippowdon.
Volc is pretty much always going to be QD. It just comes down to whether or not it is LO, and what its third move is (Roost or Giga Drain/Hidden Power). I do not buy the argument that because it has the potential to be amazing it should be banned. I feel that things such as Infernape is much more threatening. Nape can run Scarf, Band, or even Specs, SD, NP, or mixed Expert Belt, or even LO all out attacker. Volc is pretty much as good as Haxarous. Pretty strong, but things like Thunder Wave Blissey can keep it in check.
Just my opinions.
Volc is pretty much always going to be QD. It just comes down to whether or not it is LO, and what its third move is (Roost or Giga Drain/Hidden Power). I do not buy the argument that because it has the potential to be amazing it should be banned. I feel that things such as Infernape is much more threatening. Nape can run Scarf, Band, or even Specs, SD, NP, or mixed Expert Belt, or even LO all out attacker. Volc is pretty much as good as Haxarous. Pretty strong, but things like Thunder Wave Blissey can keep it in check.
Just my opinions.
Oh yeah, i meant Con lol As for Mega Stoise..
+2 252 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 298-352 (82.3 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 298-352 (82.3 - 97.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I forgot to figure the +2 to Volc's Sp Def for the Mega Stoise...
252+ SpA Mega Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. +2 4 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 198-234 (63.4 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So, i've been using a Volcarona team and I got to 1300 fairly easily with a new alt. Here's my feedback so far..
1. Bulky Moth is definitely the way to go IMO.
2. Flame Body + Quiver Dance = One bulky Moth
3. Physical Fire Types definitely ruin Moth's fun. Scarf Victini (ties Volc at +1) demolishes with V-Create.
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 231-273 (61.7 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 253-298 (67.6 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Arcanine Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 270-318 (72.1 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
These are for Max HP/+Def Volcarona. Any less, or SR, and they are easily OHKOs.
But, honestly I think it's easier to set up a QD as opposed to a DD/SD on Haxorus. Volcarona can actually punish physical attackers that spam U-Turn with Flame Body and boost it's above average 105 Sp Def with QD. It's key resists to Fighting, Fairy and Steel, which are 3 prominent attacking types in UU atm give it an advantage over Haxorus IMO.
Overall, I like the moth, but it definitely needs more testing...
1. Bulky Moth is definitely the way to go IMO.
2. Flame Body + Quiver Dance = One bulky Moth
3. Physical Fire Types definitely ruin Moth's fun. Scarf Victini (ties Volc at +1) demolishes with V-Create.
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 231-273 (61.7 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 253-298 (67.6 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Arcanine Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 270-318 (72.1 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
These are for Max HP/+Def Volcarona. Any less, or SR, and they are easily OHKOs.
But, honestly I think it's easier to set up a QD as opposed to a DD/SD on Haxorus. Volcarona can actually punish physical attackers that spam U-Turn with Flame Body and boost it's above average 105 Sp Def with QD. It's key resists to Fighting, Fairy and Steel, which are 3 prominent attacking types in UU atm give it an advantage over Haxorus IMO.
Overall, I like the moth, but it definitely needs more testing...
Also: Mienshao's Stone Edge OHKOs 100% of the time.
252 Atk Mienshao Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 400-472 (106.9 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Mienshao Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 400-472 (106.9 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
pokemonisfun
Banned deucer.
Wait guys what happened? Why is Zygarde being pushed back?
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