Other Aegislash Post-Ban Discussion Thread

[xJownage]

In my opinion, there are no more broken aspects of the meta at the moment. There are some threatening pokes out there, yeah, but honestly I don't see anything being unmanageable once people allow more creativity in teambuilding, as I don't see anything overly centralizing that makes a shit ton of pokes unviable atm. The only think I'd like to see get the boot is Kyu-B cuz I'm still bitter that he was ever let into OU in the first place.

and yeah xJownage I'll try to clean up the OP before it gets too cluttered.

And yeah, the format is a little lengthy and complex, but it really is necessary for this thread to effectively accomplish what it set out to do, which is find out what is effective in the changed meta and what isn't. Explanation is necessary at this point in time, as if a really obscure poke has a new, effective role in the meta, it's fairly mandatory that it be known what that is, otherwise there's no point in bringing it up.

Plenty of description is needed for even discussing old pokemons sets, because as we have already seen, aegislash is remarkably changing the metagame. Therefore I feel that posts out of format in the OP look bad and clunky, and in general need to be in the same formats to look good. Also, we should remember that we don't want specific set analyses in the OP. Out of the OP, doing stuff out of format is fine, and talking about past pokes is also fine even if we know what they will do, but there would need to be specific analyses made for the OP rather than discussion.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

One Poke I think has become much stronger with the removal of Aegislash is Pinsir. Now, he's able to ravage mildly weakened Skarmory and Rotom-Wash, two previously solid counters, as there's no longer anything deterring him from running Close Combat in place of Earthquake.

 

[Katakiri]

Here's a Pokemon that gained a fair amount of utility from Aegislash's removal.

Cofagrigus
Pokedex Number - 563
Type(s) - Ghost
Base Stats - 58 HP / 50 Atk / 145 Def / 95 SAtk / 105 SDef / 30 Spe

General Analysis of Pokemon/Current Roles in OU -

While Cofagrigus was rarely hinder by Aegislash itself, the removal of Aegislash has made Pokemon that Cofa checks and counters far more common as well as naturally increasing Cofa's Spin-Blocking viability. Thanks to the addition of Toxic Spikes to its egg moves in XY, Cofa is one of the 3 fully-evolved Ghost-types to have an entry hazard and one of the very few non-Poison-types to get the move. Mummy, Cofa's signature ability, nullifies foe's abilities on contact; reducing major threats like M-Medicham, M-Mawile, Azumarill, M-Pinsir, Scizor, and Talonflame to much more manageable levels. Cofa's typing allows it to entirely wall M-Heracross, Mummy renders M-Pinsir completely unable to touch Cofagrigus after it activates, M-Medicham arguably struggles more against Cofa than it did Aegislash with no way of hitting Cofa Super Effectively, and Cofa can threaten each with a WoW burn.
Potential Movesets:

Utility
Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic Spikes / Pain Split
- Haze

This set does a little bit of everything; it blocks Rapid Spin, spreads burns, sets up hazards, removes the boosts accumulated by sweepers, and walls various Mega Pokemon. Hazards vs longevity is the big decision for this set. This set fits well on Offensive teams as those can have trouble against M-Heracross, M-Pinsir, Talonflame, and Sand Rush Excadrill while Cofagrigus can stop them from doing anything detrimental. Cofa also doesn't give up a lot of momentum either as it can just Haze boosts away or set hazards of its own which makes KOing it a priority for the opponent. It could work well on stall teams too as it fits nicely into a defensive core of Chansey+Ghost-type+Fighting-type (I'd personally opt for Chesnaught in that core to have 3 types of entry hazards).

Personal Opinion of the Pokemon/Conclusion:
Cofa can make for a decent Trick Room user with Nasty Plot but Trick Room's gimmicky in itself and Sticky Web is a far easier to manage method of playing with speed tiers (which Defensive Cofa can Spin-Block for). Don't bother with Specially Defensive sets to wall Starmie, Dusclops does that better. Toxic Spikes are a lot more reliable than some might think since M-Venusaur and Amoonguss are the only remotely common Pokemon that remove them on switch and is seen almost exclusively on stall and even then some stall teams prefer M-Charizard X over Venusaur. Only use Cofa if you need to Spin-block, Mummy's a very nice perk to have but there are more reliable walls out there.

 

[Heliosan]

I am going to make another analysis cuz bored

Mega Heracross
General Information:

Dex: #214
Type: Bug/Fighting
Base Stats: 80 / 125 / 75 / 40 / 95 / 85 ---> 80 / 185 / 115 / 40 / 105 / 75

Abilities: Swarm: When HP is below 1/3rd its maximum, power of Bug-type moves is increased by 50%.
Guts: Attack is increased by 50% when induced with a status (BURN, PARALYZE, SLEEP, POISON, FREEZE). Burn’s effect of lowering Attack is not applied.
Hidden Ability (Available):
Moxie: Attack is raised by one stage when the Pokémon knocks out another Pokémon.
Mega Ability:
Skill Link: All multi-hit moves will always hit for the maximum number possible.

Notable Movepool (Bold indicates STAB)
Swords Dance
Pin Missle
Megahorn
Close Combat
Stone Edge
Earthquake
Rock Blast
Bulk Up
Bullet Seed
Facade
Focus Punch
Knock Off
Pursuit

Does it really need anything else?

General Analysis: Mega Heracross now becomes Mega Medicham 2.0. A beautiful movepool and an unfair attack stat near that of MM2X is all it needs to be an absolute wrecking ball in the OU metagame. In the past, Earthquake was required on MegaCross to hit Aegislash. Now that Aegi is banned, however, Heracross is free to go crazy in OU, and wreak havoc with its extreme power. This pokemon has the obvious weakness to flying types, but that should not deter you from using it; there are very few more efficient stallbreakers in the post-aegi OU. This thing's bulk can even let it do well against offense, as nothing on offense can switch into its unbelievably powerful attacks. Non-Mega Heracross also has become viable, especially as a scarfed cleaner due to Moxie. While its generally inferior in this meta (belongs in UU), it can still be a decent scarfer and a cool cleaner with its sheer power, especially after a moxie boost. Moxie boosts are also important pre-mega evolution, as your speed goes down when you mega evolve; its often good not to mega evolve until you really need to due to the costly loss in speed.


Swords Dance Sweeper

Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie ----> Skill Link
Evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def or Sdef (can be tweaked)
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rock Blast
- Pin Missile
- Close Combat

Welcome to sticky web's win condition and stall's nightmare. Swords Dance Mega Heracross has the sheer power to rip right through stallish teams with ease, especially with the lack of super effective coverage moves on those teams. This generally means that Heracross can easily tank a few hits on those teams and proceed to rip apart those cores with its dual stabs and rock coverage. It is nowhere near useless against offense either, Its great bulk can allow it to tank non-flying hits with ease and OHKO anything that doesn't resist, in fact, there are no switch ins on offense to this thing. The main purpose of this poke, however, is to break semi-stall and balanced teams, full stall will often have a way to beat it. When its checks have been beaten, there is nothing to stop mega heracross from waltzing right in and ripping the opponents team to shreds. Being able to OHKO Bulky Mega Aggron at +2 is no small feat.


Substitute Stallbreaker

Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie ----> Skill Link
Evs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def (more bulk would be smart, however)
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Pin Missile / Swords Dance / Bulk Up
- Close Combat / Focus Punch
- Rock Blast

This is the full-stall obliterator I referenced earlier in this analysis. From behind a substitute, stall has a hard time touching mega heracross. Investing in SDef and HP is actually viable with bulk up, as that makes it even harder for stall to break those subs. While people are going to say "why aren't you running pin missile", there is really justification, and that is the amazing coverage of rock+fighting, which only now doesn't have neutral coverage against Mega Medicham. Using pin missle doesn't grant you that much coverage either, which is why swords dance and bulk up are both very viable. Focus Punch is also an option, since this will be used against more stallish teams it will usually be safe to go for a focus punch. This is almost required with the bulk up set, since close combat is really redundant and gets rid of all your progress anyways. If you are paranoid about using either with a bulk up set, you can use arm thrust (lol although it is base 75) or maybe Low Kick. Either way, this is a great stallbreaker that is literally adrian marin's worst nightmare.


All-Out Attacker

Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie ----> Skill Link
Evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def or Sdef
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Earthquake / Knock Off / Pursuit (?)
- Rock Blast
- Pin Missile
- Close Combat

If you still want coverage, The all-out attacker set did get better with the banning of Aegislash. The main problem with this set in the old meta is the fact that using earthquake was often important since many times Aegislash can be predicted to come in. Aegislash forced it to not spam its stabs and rock blast, and forced it to use earthquake in situations where its unfavorable. Now that this isin't an issue, Heracross can easily spam its high powered stabs, and also is free to run knock off without fear of king's shield drops and it can even be a bulky uberpowerful pursuit trapper if that is what you want to do. Either way, Megacross is the master of forcing switches, and since now nothing can switch into it with Aegislash gone, this poke is really powerful against many team archetypes. If you play it right, every time it comes in something dies.


Conclusion: Defensive cores have never been able to handle Mega Heracross, and now with Aegislash gone, Even Balanced or Bulky offense teams will have trouble with it. Mega Heracross forces switches against anything slower than it, but nobody can switch in to its super powerful attacks, which results in a lot of kills for balanced offensive teams.

Shouldn't Bullet Seed have its place on Mega Heracross' moveset in order to get an easy OHKO on bulky Waters such as Quagsire, Rotom-W, etc? Other than that, very solid analysis. Mega Heracross is definitely one of the biggest enemies that Stall has to face as of late.

I would like to add that it probably will force stall teams that have Skarmory to use Brave Bird on Skarmory because Counter won't return the full damage deal by a multi-move like Rock Blast.

 

[Heliosan]

STARMIE
Pokedex Number - #121
Type(s) - Water/Psychic
Base Stats - 60 HP / 75 Atk / 85 Def / 100 SAtk / 85 SDef / 115 Spe

General Analysis of Pokemon/Current Roles in OU -
Starmie is one of the best spinners in the game, as it has the potential to beat every OU legal spin blocker with the correct coverage move, and because of the use of Rapid Spin, it has the coverage and power to beat most, if not all, of the common defoggers in OU. Starmie is one of those mons that is really hard to switch into because of coverage and Analytic. Reflect Type also gains a notable mention as it allows it to not be pursuit trapped by OU's pursuit users.
Potential Movesets
name: Rapid Spinner
move 1: Rapid Spin
move 2: Hydro Pump/Scald
move 3: Psyshock
move 4: Ice Beam/Thunderbolt
ability: Analytic
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 32 HP/252 SAtk / 224 Spe

Set Description:
This set has the coverage to be a really efficient Rapid Spinner in todays metagame. Hydro Pump allows it to net a fuckton of 2HKOs, while Scald makes it harder to switch into due to burns. Analytic takes perfect advantage of the switches forced by the coverage and power, and allows it to make for a decent Rapid Spin user as well. It should be noted the only reason to use this set is Rapid Spin: otherwise it is outclassed by Greninja at this role. Psyshock allows it to beat OU's only remaining spin blocker: Gengar. The last slot is usually Ice Beam because it beats almost every defogger, because you use Starmie to spin, therefore keeping hazards up on your side. The EVs allow it to outspeed Thundurus, while 252 goes into SAtk to make it hit as hard as possible, the rest are dumped into HP to give it slightly better bulk.

Personal Opinion of the Pokemon/Conclusion:
Starmie has the potential to rise up to OU again, due to the fact it is the best spinner. I love Starmie, who doesn't?
***

I would like to add Natural Cure as a good ability for Starmie since it can absorb status for its allies and then heal itself by simply switching out. I could also see this set working well:

Name: Trick Scarf/Specs Set:
move 1: Trick
move 2: Hydro Pump/Surf/Scald
move 3: Psyshock
move 4: Ice Beam/Thunderbolt
ability: Analytic/Natural Cure
item: Choice Scarf OR Choice Specs
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Set Description:

This set not only provides strong revenge killing with a Choice Scarf or wall-breaking with a Choice Specs, but also the potential to cripple Eviolite Chansey, Skarmory, and other common members on stall teams. Hydro Pump is the main primary STAB to hit hard, but if accuracy is a worry, Surf or Scald are noteworthy options but the base power difference is noticeable. Psyshock for hitting special tanks on the switch and for covering common Pokemon such as Mega Venusaur, Conkeldurr, etc. Final move choice depends on the team's overall coverage.

Personal Opinion of the Pokemon/conclusion:
Starmie could be a thing in OU once again not only as a Rapid Spinner, but also as a Trick Choice set user for whatever coverage or role a team might need it to fulfill.

 

[MegaMogwai]

What

You are correct in saying that the "wallbreaker apocalypse" has come--however, it's a good thing in the long run. The more broken things are right now means that they will get the ban they deserve.

That said, defensive play styles are feeling the brunt of the ban. As Baharoth said, the number of wallbreakers we have to prepare for has essentially multiplied and it's causing us to spread ourselves pretty thin. The ban has resulted in a very matchup oriented metagame, where defensive teams don't have the upper hand. It is my opinion that this ban has only further identified how truly broken this metagame is.
(Note that this is an opinion, so it's not right--only valid) With that in mind I'm actually glad that Aegislash got the boot because it means we can accomplish more from a tiering sense; if we can eliminate the rest of the broken aspects of the metagame, we will have a very balanced meta that I believe people will really enjoy playing.

What concerns me is the concept of a "balanced" metagame you stall players have.

All of a sudden you get run over by mega heracross, medicham and such and you say that the tier is broken.

If stall had a way to counter every single wallbreaker in existence (all in one team), thus becoming unbreachable, THAT would define broken.

I don't believe the solution is to start banning things left and right, especially when all I'm seeing is defensive players complain.

 

[Sun King]

What


What concerns me is the concept of a "balanced" metagame you stall players have.

All of a sudden you get run over by mega heracross, medicham and such and you say that the tier is broken.

If stall had a way to counter every single wallbreaker in existence (all in one team), thus becoming unbreachable, THAT would define broken.

I don't believe the solution is to start banning things left and right, especially when all I'm seeing is defensive players complain.

Not to get in a pissing contest over this, but literally everybody who called for Aegi's ban did so because he hampered teambuilding. And it isn't just stall, it's any defensive or balanced team. If we are to have a balanced metagame, we need to make sure each of the three major play styles are equally viable (those being offense, stall, and balanced). The solution is not banning things left and right: the solution is--and always has been--banning what needs to be banned so that we can achieve as balanced a metagame as possible. And to your argument about counterability--if the usage of unstoppable wallbreakers was relatively low, it wouldn't make a difference. It's when they get high enough usage that entire play styles are threatened that we should ban them. Hell--Aegislash was banned not because it was uncounterable but because he threatened offense as a play style.

 

[G-Von]

Hawlucha

Pokedex Number - 701
Type(s) - Fighting/Flying
Base Stats - 78 HP / 92 Atk / 75 Def / 74 SAtk / 63 SDef / 118 Spe

General Analysis of Pokemon/Current Roles in OU:
Potential Movesets
SD+3 Attacks
name: Hawlucha
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Acrobatics
move 3: High Jump Kick
move 4: Stone Edge
ability: Limber
item: no item
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk/200 Spe/56 HP

Set Description:
Most people opt to run Unburden for obvious reasons, but this set takes aim at not having to deal with Prankster T-wave from Thundurus while also being able to cause big damage to it and Zapdos, which wall its STAB moves. Since the Flying Gem won't be out until at least ORAS, this variant ops for having no item to ensure Acrobatics is always a base 110 STAB move. It's EV's are tailored so that it outspeeds max speed Thundurus everytime. I would have made Hawlucha to outspeed base 115's but in OU, they aren't that popular, like Starmie and Raikou. 252 Attack EV's for obvious reasons and the final 56 EV's get dumped in bulk. In theory, I feel like this set should do well. Some of the things that still threaten Hawlucha are Talonflame and M-Pinsir thanks to their priority flying moves, ghost types due to HJK recoil, and any physical walls that can take a +2 attack pretty easily and OHKO back like Skarmory. Obviously, 'lucha needs that team support, but I believe a set like this can work surprisingly well.

Personal Opinion of the Pokemon/Conclusion:
I feel like Hawlucha is a threat due to its STAB attacks and reasonable speed. People want to use the Unburden sets so bad but there is really too much priority running around for it to be viable. Hawlucha also wrecks a popular team archtype: Sand Offense pretty badly.

 

[xJownage]

G-Von beat you to the punch lol. There is something I may add though. Generally Hawlucha likes running power herb sky attack and then acro+HJK, as it really covers everything with its stabs alone.

Not to get in a pissing contest over this, but literally everybody who called for Aegi's ban did so because he hampered teambuilding. And it isn't just stall, it's any defensive or balanced team. If we are to have a balanced metagame, we need to make sure each of the three major play styles are equally viable (those being offense, stall, and balanced). The solution is not banning things left and right: the solution is--and always has been--banning what needs to be banned so that we can achieve as balanced a metagame as possible. And to your argument about counterability--if the usage of unstoppable wallbreakers was relatively low, it wouldn't make a difference. It's when they get high enough usage that entire play styles are threatened that we should ban them. Hell--Aegislash was banned not because it was uncounterable but because he threatened offense as a play style.

These "unstoppable wallbreakers" aren't the so unstoppable you think they are, such as poison types beating megacross and, well, tons of stuff beating mega medicham. mega mawile is the one I might support banning, but to be honest, the previous two are fine. Also, you are talking about the "unstoppable wallbreakers", but the thing is that most of them are megas; i.e. you can only use one per team, preventing players from completely destroying stall with wallbreaking capabilities alone.

 

[s0nido]

What do people think about Mandibuzz's viability after the banning of Aegislash? I read in an article on The Smog that Mandibuzz shot up to OU primarily because she's the best counter to Aegislash there is. Would her viability in OU fall now that Aegislash is gone? I know that she still has use as a Defogger, but there are better OU Pokemon which can Defog, not to mention a bunch of spinners (i.e. Starmie) which are now viable thanks to the removal of Aegislash.

 

[MoxieInfinite]

noone likes mandibuzz after what he she did to simba's father,, #freemusafa #lionkingrepresent o_o

 

[Jobes]

What do people think about Mandibuzz's viability after the banning of Aegislash? I read in an article on The Smog that Mandibuzz shot up to OU primarily because she's the best counter to Aegislash there is. Would her viability in OU fall now that Aegislash is gone? I know that she still has use as a Defogger, but there are better OU Pokemon which can Defog, not to mention a bunch of spinners (i.e. Starmie) which are now viable thanks to the removal of Aegislash.

Mandi is certainly less viable, but I think it will still hold its own in OU. It's a useful pokémon on balance with the ability to heal itself and Defog. STAB Foul Plays hurt, and makes DD/SDers think twice about setting up. Depending on how you EV the bird (Def vs. SpDef), it is able to put a stop to a good list of pokés.

 

[Sun King]

G-Von beat you to the punch lol. There is something I may add though. Generally Hawlucha likes running power herb sky attack and then acro+HJK, as it really covers everything with its stabs alone.


These "unstoppable wallbreakers" aren't the so unstoppable you think they are, such as poison types beating megacross and, well, tons of stuff beating mega medicham. mega mawile is the one I might support banning, but to be honest, the previous two are fine. Also, you are talking about the "unstoppable wallbreakers", but the thing is that most of them are megas; i.e. you can only use one per team, preventing players from completely destroying stall with wallbreaking capabilities alone.

I don't recall naming anything specific, but sure--I'll bite. Yes--there are things that can beat Medicham and Mega Hera, but they're niche and don't generally do much aside from that. I could very easily make a centralizing argument for those mons in regards to the defensive/balanced metagames, however I don't really want to derail the thread any more. Also--at +2, very little stops mega Heracross (yes Doublade can, but the list is TINY).

Contributing to the trend of this thread--pretty much anything that counters the newly viable metagame is more viable. Notable mentions are physical Cresselia, physical Gliscor (this will be a headache in team preview), and Doublade.

 

[Karxrida]

Hawlucha

Pokedex Number - 701
Type(s) - Fighting/Flying
Base Stats - 78 HP / 92 Atk / 75 Def / 74 SAtk / 63 SDef / 118 Spe

General Analysis of Pokemon/Current Roles in OU:
Potential Movesets
SD+3 Attacks
name: Hawlucha
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Acrobatics
move 3: High Jump Kick
move 4: Stone Edge
ability: Limber
item: no item
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk/200 Spe/56 HP

Set Description:
Most people opt to run Unburden for obvious reasons, but this set takes aim at not having to deal with Prankster T-wave from Thundurus while also being able to cause big damage to it and Zapdos, which wall its STAB moves. Since the Flying Gem won't be out until at least ORAS, this variant ops for having no item to ensure Acrobatics is always a base 110 STAB move. It's EV's are tailored so that it outspeeds max speed Thundurus everytime. I would have made Hawlucha to outspeed base 115's but in OU, they aren't that popular, like Starmie and Raikou. 252 Attack EV's for obvious reasons and the final 56 EV's get dumped in bulk. In theory, I feel like this set should do well. Some of the things that still threaten Hawlucha are Talonflame and M-Pinsir thanks to their priority flying moves, ghost types due to HJK recoil, and any physical walls that can take a +2 attack pretty easily and OHKO back like Skarmory. Obviously, 'lucha needs that team support, but I believe a set like this can work surprisingly well.

Personal Opinion of the Pokemon/Conclusion:
I feel like Hawlucha is a threat due to its STAB attacks and reasonable speed. People want to use the Unburden sets so bad but there is really too much priority running around for it to be viable. Hawlucha also wrecks a popular team archtype: Sand Offense pretty badly.

Minor nitpick but Sand Offense has Sand Rush Excadrill which will always outspeed and can OHKO after SR and/or Sand damage.
252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Excadrill Iron Head vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 243-289 (78.1 - 92.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

If Hawlucha is literally the only thing left that can beat the team they can sack T-Tar to give Excadrill 7 turns to sweep.

 

[s0nido]

Contributing to the trend of this thread--pretty much anything that counters the newly viable metagame is more viable. Notable mentions are physical Cresselia, physical Gliscor (this will be a headache in team preview), and Doublade.

Not sure about Cresselia, though. I mean, it's a great mixed wall, but it has weaknesses to very spammable Ghost- and Dark-type moves, as well as having few resistances to balance that out. Furthermore, it doesn't have a way to reliably cure itself of status, which isn't great for a wall. Also, its only healing move, Moonlight, is a low PP move and unreliable thanks to being weather-dependent. I don't think the removal of Aegislash will help its viability much at all, since it wasn't all that viable in OU to begin with.

 

[Sun King]

Not sure about Cresselia, though. I mean, it's a great mixed wall, but it has weaknesses to very spammable Ghost- and Dark-type moves, as well as having few resistances to balance that out. Furthermore, it doesn't have a way to reliably cure itself of status, which isn't great for a wall. Also, its only healing move, Moonlight, is a low PP move and unreliable thanks to being weather-dependent. I don't think the removal of Aegislash will help its viability much at all, since it wasn't all that viable in OU to begin with.

From a stall standpoint, she's a great mixed wall with a fighting resistance. If Hawlucha takes off (which I still doubt), cress will be a good answer.

 

[Karxrida]

Physically Defensive Cresselia is able to check both Mega Zards, since it can survive a Modest Fire Blast in the Sun/+1 Adamant Flare Blitz and cripple with Thunder Wave.

252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia in Sun: 274-324 (61.8 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 273-322 (61.6 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

It can then stall Zard Y out of its Sun turns thanks to Moonlight healing being boosted in the Sun, or cherry tap Zard X to death since uninvested Psychic deals 24.5%-29% to Bulky DD and +1 Dragon Claw doesn't hit 50% damage against Cress.

 

[G-Von]

Minor nitpick but Sand Offense has Sand Rush Excadrill which will always outspeed and can OHKO after SR and/or Sand damage.
252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Excadrill Iron Head vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 243-289 (78.1 - 92.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

If Hawlucha is literally the only thing left that can beat the team they can sack T-Tar to give Excadrill 7 turns to sweep.

I swear you come on here simply to smack talk Hawlucha...

It's not like I'm expecting Hawlucha to take many hits, it's just that sand offense has a really difficult time switching into Hawlucha. Plus, your situation isn't exactly set in stone since Sand turns don't get restarted when a Sand Stream user is sent back into the match unless sand is not currently a field condition.

 

[Karxrida]

I swear you come on here simply to smack talk Hawlucha...

It's not like I'm expecting Hawlucha to take many hits, it's just that sand offense has a really difficult time switching into Hawlucha. Plus, your situation isn't exactly set in stone since Sand turns don't get restarted when a Sand Stream user is sent back into the match unless sand is not currently a field condition.

I said it was a minor nitpick and wasn't saying anything against it being annoying. Hawlucha tends to work best late-game and a player can sack T-Tar if they're desperate for a Excadrill-invoked TPK.

Love you :P

 

[TheHeismanOfPDT]

So I saw this thread get started on the facebook page, decided to make an account here just to post it again. Sorry if wrong format.
Medicham-Mega @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Punch
- High Jump Kick
- Fake Out
- Poison Jab

After the ban I immediately made a team around MegaCham just because I hadnt used it since it moved up to BL. Gotta say that it is a huge threat, and at a casual 1500 rating there are no switch-ins to it in standard OU. Here is a replay where it demolishes my opponents entire defensive core:http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-148560797 (Note that the Poison Jab was a low damage role, dealing between 62-75% to max defense Clefable)

On on hand, Aegi was a solid counter, but remember that the purpose of tiering is to create the most balanced meta where everything in it has potential, i.e. broken mons to counter broken mons is not balance. If that were the case, there wouldnt be an Uber tier. I definitely foresee an increase usage of Cofagrigus and Slowbro in OU to counter this higher up on the ladder. That being said, using lesser-used mons with specialized sets to counter is exactly why Aegislash was suspected. I could definitely see where MegaCham could be on the chopping block soon, because it is good for a kill every time it comes it bc of overwhelming power.

 

[.TM87]

You guys will regret banning Aegislash once the new Megas come out and spam +1 Leaf Storm/Dragon Pulse and Tough Claw Meteor Mashes.

But Chesnaught is a lot more viable now. Impish 252 HP/252 DEF/ 6 Atk with Leech Seed/Spiky Shield.

 

[Rosen]

Aight so I'll add the notable pokes to the OP tomorrow as I am on my phone atm and am not dealing with that until I get a comp in front of me so if you don't see your set in the OP that'd be why

 

[AM]

The only thing I can say for this that hasn't been said is that mons like Slowbro are just that much better man. It's actually a pretty solid check to M-Chams that don't run Thunder punch, which they pretty much have to use to not get walled by Slowbro leaving them open to other things like Dragonite. I personally think it's not too bad since some people are obviously catching on to good stuff and what can work to check the threats we previously thought would be op. I'm not so good at building the in depth analysis like some others but yeah Slowbro should get some recognition. It was solid before and it's even more solid now and I wouldn't be surprised to see more usage of it.

 

[totoTavros]

You guys will regret banning Aegislash once the new Megas come out and spam +1 Leaf Storm/Dragon Pulse and Tough Claw Meteor Mashes.

We won't regret it. If we need to regret it, then we will ban it. Also, +1 252 SpA Life Orb Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 300-355 (42.6 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO, 252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 95-112 (24.1 - 28.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery and 252+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 106-125 (26.9 - 31.7%) -- 35.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery. Added 50 to SpA and Atk respectively.

 

[Karxrida]

You guys will regret banning Aegislash once the new Megas come out and spam +1 Leaf Storm/Dragon Pulse and Tough Claw Meteor Mashes.

But Chesnaught is a lot more viable now. Impish 252 HP/252 DEF/ 6 Atk with Leech Seed/Spiky Shield.

How exactly is Chesnaught more viable with Aegislash gone? I thought one of Chesnaught's major selling points was Bulletproof letting you beat the standard KS + 3 Attacks set.