Aldaron
geriatric
So CTC's thread here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/team-archive-by-ctc.3513518/page-3#post-5635265 is a pretty solid "top-down" approach to providing community services for team building; namely, he provides the team and then provides justification for its formation.
I basically want to start a series of topics to contribute to the community's ability to team build.
This topic will look to provide a resource for bottom up team building, but that's an extremely expansive topic, so I'm more looking to limit this simply to being a collection of Pokemon that fill certain roles.
After getting that list compiled, we can talk about adding how to actually use / fit / combine them.
So the initial goals for this topic are threefold: first, compile a list of roles, second, define the roles in easy to understand terms, and third, compile a list of Pokemon for those roles.
I'd like to approach this with some sort of hierarchical organization system, meaning instead of having "Offensive Stealth Rockers" and "Defensive Stealth Rockers" as top level categories, I'd prefer "Entry Hazard Setters" first level -> "Stealth Rockers" "Spikers" "Toxic Spikers" second level -> then "Offensive Stealth Rockers" and "Defensive Stealth Rockers" under "Stealth Rockers"
^ That's simply because we can then use tags and the like to automate information gathering more efficiently. Also, this means if you have suggestions on how to better organize it top down, I'd really appreciate you sharing them with me. Finally, I also don't want this to be TOO abstracted in its organization. For example, I don't want the highest levels to be "offensive" "defensive" "balanced" "support" and then "hazards setters" and "defoggers" under support, because I don't feel the higher level gives much information and I want each level to have at least some subjective level of information. Also, I don't want the Pokemon lists to be ALL Pokemon that could feasibly fit into those roles...it should be viable ones only (obviously subjective).
I'll get started:
- Entry Hazard Setters: can set up any or some combination of Stealth Rock, Spikes, and/or Toxic Spikes
- Pivots: Can use any of U-turn, Volt Switch, or Baton Pass or be able to take a wide array of attacks in order to preserve or regain momentum for their side
- Attackers: Can hit the opposition hard, but not necessarily sweep through well made teams, generally characterized as Pokemon meant to come in at any point in the game and stay out for a small number of turns
- Walls: Can handle strong attacks
- Stall Breakers: Can break common stall cores
- Sweeper Checks: Can prevent a sweep using some unique factor
^ That seems like a decent start for the top level, as it mostly encompasses stall / balance / offense teams and even the highest levels have a good amount of information. There is obviously going to be a lot of double dipping here, but I think that's ok. Pokemon can perform roles.
Please first suggest changes / additions to the organizational hierarchy as well as anything to do with the roles. Once we're settled on that, we can start filling in with Pokemon.
The ultimate goal for this series of guides will be article + dex integration, namely each example Pokemon will link to the appropriate set in the dex. This way we'll be providing information and examples directly.
I basically want to start a series of topics to contribute to the community's ability to team build.
This topic will look to provide a resource for bottom up team building, but that's an extremely expansive topic, so I'm more looking to limit this simply to being a collection of Pokemon that fill certain roles.
After getting that list compiled, we can talk about adding how to actually use / fit / combine them.
So the initial goals for this topic are threefold: first, compile a list of roles, second, define the roles in easy to understand terms, and third, compile a list of Pokemon for those roles.
I'd like to approach this with some sort of hierarchical organization system, meaning instead of having "Offensive Stealth Rockers" and "Defensive Stealth Rockers" as top level categories, I'd prefer "Entry Hazard Setters" first level -> "Stealth Rockers" "Spikers" "Toxic Spikers" second level -> then "Offensive Stealth Rockers" and "Defensive Stealth Rockers" under "Stealth Rockers"
^ That's simply because we can then use tags and the like to automate information gathering more efficiently. Also, this means if you have suggestions on how to better organize it top down, I'd really appreciate you sharing them with me. Finally, I also don't want this to be TOO abstracted in its organization. For example, I don't want the highest levels to be "offensive" "defensive" "balanced" "support" and then "hazards setters" and "defoggers" under support, because I don't feel the higher level gives much information and I want each level to have at least some subjective level of information. Also, I don't want the Pokemon lists to be ALL Pokemon that could feasibly fit into those roles...it should be viable ones only (obviously subjective).
I'll get started:
- Entry Hazard Setters: can set up any or some combination of Stealth Rock, Spikes, and/or Toxic Spikes
* Stealth Rockers
- Entry Hazards Removers: can use any of Defog or Rapid Spin> Offensive Stealth Rockers
> Defensive Stealth Rockers
* Spikers> Defensive Stealth Rockers
> Offensive Spikers
> Defensive Spikers
* Toxic Spikers (do you guys this role is necessary? Maybe we can just dump in a general misc category or something)> Defensive Spikers
> Offensive Toxic Spikers
> Defensive Toxic Spikers
> Defensive Toxic Spikers
* Defoggers
> Offensive Defoggers
> Defensive Defoggers
* Rapid Spinners> Defensive Defoggers
> Offensive Rapid Spinners
> Defensive Rapid Spinners
> Defensive Rapid Spinners
- Pivots: Can use any of U-turn, Volt Switch, or Baton Pass or be able to take a wide array of attacks in order to preserve or regain momentum for their side
* U-turners
* Volt Switchers
* Baton Passers (do you guys this role is necessary? Maybe we can just dump in a general misc category or something)
* Assault Vest Users
- Sweepers: Can sweep using a wide array of attacks or buffs, generally characterized as Pokemon meant to come in mid to late game as well as stay out for multiple consecutive turns* Volt Switchers
* Baton Passers (do you guys this role is necessary? Maybe we can just dump in a general misc category or something)
* Assault Vest Users
> Offensive AV
> Defensive AV
> Defensive AV
* Dragon Dancers
* Swords Dancers
* Nasty Plotters
* Calm Minders
* Should I include Choice Scarfers here too? Not sure about this. In previous gens, Scarfers particularly on Hazards teams, were certainly viable sweepers, but I'm seeing this purpose less emphasized and the "checking sweepers" purpose more emphasized for Scarfers nowadays.
* Swords Dancers
* Nasty Plotters
* Calm Minders
* Should I include Choice Scarfers here too? Not sure about this. In previous gens, Scarfers particularly on Hazards teams, were certainly viable sweepers, but I'm seeing this purpose less emphasized and the "checking sweepers" purpose more emphasized for Scarfers nowadays.
- Attackers: Can hit the opposition hard, but not necessarily sweep through well made teams, generally characterized as Pokemon meant to come in at any point in the game and stay out for a small number of turns
* Choice Banders
* Choice Specs users
* Mixed attackers
* Choice Specs users
* Mixed attackers
- Walls: Can handle strong attacks
* Physical
* Special
* Mixed
* Special
* Mixed
- Stall Breakers: Can break common stall cores
* Taunters
* MoldBreakers
* Should I include attackers / sweepers here too?
* MoldBreakers
* Should I include attackers / sweepers here too?
- Sweeper Checks: Can prevent a sweep using some unique factor
* Choice Scarfers
* Priority Users
* Unaware Users
* Priority Users
* Unaware Users
^ That seems like a decent start for the top level, as it mostly encompasses stall / balance / offense teams and even the highest levels have a good amount of information. There is obviously going to be a lot of double dipping here, but I think that's ok. Pokemon can perform roles.
Please first suggest changes / additions to the organizational hierarchy as well as anything to do with the roles. Once we're settled on that, we can start filling in with Pokemon.
The ultimate goal for this series of guides will be article + dex integration, namely each example Pokemon will link to the appropriate set in the dex. This way we'll be providing information and examples directly.
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