np: XY OU Suspect Testing Round 6 - Wrecking Ball [Read Post 423 for Posting etiquette]

Status
Not open for further replies.
Who has been asking for suspect test and where have they been asking? I have yet to see any requests.

Anyway, Gengar hard counters MM. Sub first turn while they SD or SP then WoW on the 2nd turn to take it out of the game. It is too risky for them to attempt an Iron head, Play Rough or Fire Gang because MM doesn't know what Gengar is running. Could be sweeper, hypnosis, destiny bond.

The main strength of MM is Sucker Punch
It is too slow without it. It has room for counter play because you can set up , status it, or use hazards. It requires prediction. Bait the switch and you can nail it with a SE hit or switch to your counter before it can SD.
 
"You can't burn M.Mawile because sometimes they run substitute."
M.Mawile's base speed: 50
Substitute: +0 priority
Your Will-O-Wisper can't be THAT slow? :x
And then you realize its easier said than done because Mawile forces switches especially if Pokemon X is already weakened and doesn't want to take a sucker punch and/or its something you absolutely need such as a win condition. Basically in short, its bound to get a free sub on something and can easily pressure you or kill off/wreck more mon than you intended for it to do all because your best answer and only answer was to burn it. 50/50 yea I know but unlike Aegislash, you don't win them as often and losing them can cost you the entire match easily. Funfact: they can also switch out if they don't run sub. Just food for thought~ ;)
 

bruno

is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis a Past WCoP Champion
World Defender
Who has been asking for suspect test and where have they been asking? I have yet to see any requests.

Anyway, Gengar hard counters MM. Sub first turn while they SD or SP then WoW on the 2nd turn to take it out of the game. It is too risky for them to attempt an Iron head, Play Rough or Fire Gang because MM doesn't know what Gengar is running. Could be sweeper, hypnosis, destiny bond.

The main strength of MM is Sucker Punch
It is too slow without it. It has room for counter play because you can set up , status it, or use hazards. It requires prediction. Bait the switch and you can nail it with a SE hit or switch to your counter before it can SD.
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 210-247 (80.1 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 373-441 (142.3 - 168.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

good hard counter buddy
 
Last edited:
But it has a boat load of checks:
Heatran, Excadrill, Garchomp, Landorus-I, Charizard X/Y Just to name a few. It is also extremely slow. Sure it has priority, but a non stab sucker punch isn't that stong.
to lazy to calc it but i am pretty sure that +2 sucker punch ohkoes all of them. The only things that can take it are mons that resist it, like Keldeo/Terra.
 
Last edited:

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Remember when I said I was on the fence about his ban on the first page? I must have been high or something, since Three-Faced Bitch is a broken fuck (thanks for your post Jukain).

Her typing is one of the best in the game defensively, giving only 2 weaknesses, 9 resists, and 2 immunities. She has amble set-up and switch-in opportunities thanks to this.

Fairy is one of the best STABs in the game and gets near perfect coverage with Dark.

Knock Off is a great move in general, and Mawile's is about as strong as Bisharp's!

Sucker Punch is a powerful priority attack (again about as strong as Bisharp's). Mawile's resistances to common priority attacks makes it hard to revenge her since she can just smack you with a Play Rough if you try to stall out Sucker Punch.

On top of all of this, Intimidate in her base form turns things links Excadrill that would normally deal with her into set-up bait or force them out giving a free SD or Sub.


Ban her three mouths to Ubers.
 
Last edited:
Mawile is incredibly easy to play around because it relies on sucker punch to do anything.

1. Run substitute on anything faster.
2. Mawile is susceptible to much more burns than any other physical attacker due to such terrible speed.

Yes, there's very few things that can switch in on a +2 Mawile, but there are plenty of things that can beat in 1v1 (yes, even at +2.) This is not by no means overpowered, just the natural traits of something that hits really hard.
 
Why is this post so flawed? K lemme break this down

Sure, Mega Mawile has a great typing, and a huge attack stat, and priority but that's not enough to justify it being broken.
If that isn't then what in the world is? All of these traits are packed up into one mon.

But it has a boat load of checks:
Heatran, Excadrill, Garchomp, Landorus-I, Charizard X/Y Just to name a few. It is also extremely slow. Sure it has priority, but a non stab sucker punch isn't that stong.
Not only does pretty much everything have checks, a lot of these are crushed by a sucker punch.

Also, relying on sucker punch absolutely sucks. It causes to many 50/50's and by that I mean you can either use a different attack and die, or your opponent dies and vise versa.
I don't know about you, but I don't think excessive guessing is competitive. This is mostly sucker punch's fault, but you have these 50/50s on something as moronically strong as mawile...

Shall I ever mention how much WoW is used? XD
Kay, so should we unban every physical attacker in ubers because of will-o-wisp? No. Also, only six mons in the OU tier run will-o-wisp viably, and they are Rotom-W, Gengar, Heatran(which doesnt even run it most of the time), bulk up talonflame, some mega gardevoir and some variants of Charizard. And unless you're an idiot you aint staying in on a will-o-wisp.
Pokemon in lower tiers that use will-o include Rotom-H, some variant of Victini, the grass/ghosts and Sableye.
 
Yes, there's very few things that can switch in on a +2 Mawile, but their are plenty of things that can beat in 1v1 (yes, even at +2.) This is not by no means overpowered, just the natural traits of something that hits really hard.
Nothing switches into +2 Mawile. Yes there are some things that can check it (fast fighting types, wow users basicly) but that means you will lose a mon everytime mawile comes in. And with that typing its not to hard for it to come in.
 
This isn't like aegislash where it can run several different sets and take down a poke on the guessing game alone while having great offense and defense presence. It's a cannon. It can get great hits out on a good portion of OU, but it can't sweep as easily as, say mega charizard x or mega pinsir. It has two sets both of which can be walled by mega venusaur, bulky landorus-t, skarmory, the odd support talonflame and aegislash. The swords dance set has more walls like ferrothorn, rotom-h, arcanine and heatran while the subpunch set doesn't have the benefit of boosting, relies on getting a sub up with no form of recovery and is vulnerable to burns. And even then it needs a non-stab move for its priority, which can't OHKO on a neutral poke without a boost. Not to mention the major drawbacks of sucker punch which makes it possible setup bait. Because of its base 50 spd it's pretty much a given on any set. It can be checked at high hp by mega charizard x and y, excadrill, gliscor, garchomp, bulky gyarados, offensive landorus-t, landorus-i, magnezone and scizor and checked at low hp by keldeo, terrakion and mega heracross, assuming no boost or sub. Some of them force it to switch and all of them are useful outside of checking it. It has great defensive typing that allows it to switch in on a lot of things but it is held back in the bulk department by its base 50 hp, lack of recovery and how frail it is before you mega it. It may have intimidate before it megas but it's still extremely frail and it needs to be switched in carefully, especially with the subpunch set. Aegislash was certainly a debatable ban, but in this case I fail to see how it can be powerful enough to warrant a ban.
 
Why is this post so flawed? K lemme break this down

If that isn't then what in the world is? All of these traits are packed up into one mon.

Not only does pretty much everything have checks, a lot of these are crushed by a sucker punch.

I don't know about you, but I don't think excessive guessing is competitive. This is mostly sucker punch's fault, but you have these 50/50s on something as moronically strong as mawile...

Kay, so should we unban every physical attacker in ubers because of will-o-wisp? No. Also, only six mons in the OU tier run will-o-wisp viably, and they are Rotom-W, Gengar, Heatran(which doesnt even run it most of the time), bulk up talonflame, some mega gardevoir and some variants of Charizard. And unless you're an idiot you aint staying in on a will-o-wisp.
Pokemon in lower tiers that use will-o include Rotom-H, some variant of Victini, the grass/ghosts and Sableye.
Sucker punch needs to be at +2 to OHKO those, and again, relying on sucker punch is in no way good.
And I don't find Mega Mawile that hard to take down.
Then again, maybe I'm just biased because I just love using Mega Mawile and watching everything crumble.

Really, I'm probably just not thinking straight. It is probably broken.Infact I deleted my post because I realized how wrong it was xD
 
Mawile has plenty of defensive answers such as Heatran, mega Venu, Mew, Rotom-W/H, CharX and more. Basically anything that can switch in and use WoW neuters Mawile, and then you can switch in to something defensive that resists play rough (such as Venu) and stall Mawile out.

Offensive teams lack reliable checks and generally have to resort to good prediction and decision making, but I think that's a good thing. Offense has good match ups right now with Aegislash gone. We need something like Mawile to check offense.
 
Mawile has a good bulkyness, eight resistors, two immunity, only two weaknesses, combined with an incredible attack and a good coverage make him a really strong pokemon.
Pro ban.


PS: Why have you deleted my comment before? Maybe I was wrong to write in English (I'm not English)? In that case, I'm sorry.
 
Mawile has plenty of defensive answers such as Heatran, mega Venu, Mew, Rotom-W/H, CharX and more.
Every single one of them gets crushed depending on the coverage mawile runs.

Basically anything that can switch in and use WoW neuters Mawile
Hm things that can switch into mawile and use wow.... Defensive Chari Y and Arcanine.. awesome.

Offensive teams lack reliable checks and generally have to resort to good prediction and decision making, but I think that's a good thing. Offense has good match ups right now with Aegislash gone. We need something like Mawile to check offense.
Mawile hurts defensive teams a hell lot more than offensive ones....
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
Mega Mawile is just great. Just not broken, either. List of things that check the SD mega mawile:

Offense/bulky offense:
Landorus-T
Conkeldurr
Keldeo
Terrakion
Gyarados (even non-mega if intimidate)
Mega Charizard X (bulky version)
Rotom-W
ANYTHING WITH WILL-O-WISP

Defensive:
Mega Venusaur
Heatran
Mew
Rotom-H
Mega Aggron (niche but its surprisingly good, try it out btw)
Ammonguss


Sub+Punch Mega Mawile:

Here is a hint: don't let it get a sub up. If it doesn't:

Tons of shit can check it, I don't even need to list them all since sucker punch doesn't OHKO anything with relevant bulk.
Counters: Ammonguss, Mega Venusaur, etc.


Its great, but any good defensive build beats it. If your team is 6-0'd by mega mawile, its probably that you didn't teambuild well.
 
Okay I just sat down and closely wondered about if Mega-Mawile is really Broken.

This thing has A good matchup against every playstyle, due to sheer force to fuck stall in the butt, priority to give the finger to offense, and an immunity to toxic/ dragon moves.

This thing only really needs one free turn before it can easily go to town on your Opponent's team, Which in retrospect isnt too fucking hard to do with the best ability for doing that (Intimidate).

This thing also has great defenses, and only two weaknesses, one of which is piss-easy to play around.

Oh, and dont start the "keep mawile,it handles the Lati's" argument, WE ban the shitty Mon's, then proceed to the other shitty Mon's, how hard is it to see that it's better to ban more broken mon's, than to have a bad meta, so your favorite's can stay.

BAN WAIFU MAWILE.
 
Every single one of them gets crushed depending on the coverage mawile runs.
Mega Venu and defensive CharX/Y never get crushed by Mawile. They can always switch in safely, and after burn Venusaur can stall out +6 mega Mawile. Mew can eat a knock off and burn. WoW Heatran only gets beat by focus punch.



Hm things that can switch into mawile and use wow.... Defensive Chari Y and Arcanine.. awesome.
See above



Mawile hurts defensive teams a hell lot more than offensive ones....
Any stall team with VenuTran (which is a lot of teams) has 2 awesome answers to mega Mawile.

Offensive counters are limited to ground types that don't die to a +2 sucker punch... which is basically Lando-T and not much else.

*Keldeo, Terrakion, mega Gyara, mega Ttar, Bisharp, and a few others all survive the +2 sucker punch, but don't OHKO in return so they aren't counters. That's why offense needs to play around Mawile.
 
Mega maw is a savage. It sets up either by way of sub or sd on so much stuff. Stall has to have at least a few switchins (easily eliminated, usually, because they are so niche) and hyper offense has to lose something. Put mawile behind a sub against anything hyper offense... It will lose. While not seemingly versatile, the two maw sets together beat a TON of stuffs. All of these arguments pro-maw are laughable and idky I am repeating all of these posts.

This feels like testifying against your kid in a felony. QQ

also Haunter sorry, 'twas a placeholder for my uber long post. ;-;
 
It seems like the most common arguments for and against Mega-Mawile have to do with its speed and access to the priority move Sucker Punch.

Would it be possible to ban the move Sucker Punch on Mawile instead of banning Mawilite?

This would allow offensive Pokemon faster than Mawile [read: all] to threaten it with Ground and Fire type moves. Without Sucker Punch, Mega-Mawile can be taken down by just about any offensive Pokemon with access to Earthquake, Earth Power, Fire Blast, Flame Thrower, Heat Wave, Fire Fang, Flare Blitz, Fire Punch, or Hidden Power.
 
Last edited:
Mega Venu and defensive CharX/Y never get crushed by Mawile. They can always switch in safely, and after burn Venusaur can stall out +6 mega Mawile. Mew can eat a knock off and burn. WoW Heatran only gets beat by focus punch.


252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 255-300 (71 - 83.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 207-244 (56.8 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

And thats unboosted. At + 4 Venu gets ohkoed by Suckerpunch. Even without Iron Head it cant handle Mawile once it got to +2 and with hp fire only 3hkoing Venu might in fact lose the 1vs1 battle, ofc if you burn Mawile with something else and bring Venu afterwards it might work but that doesnt make venu a check or even a counter.


See above





Any stall team with VenuTran (which is a lot of teams) has 2 awesome answers to mega Mawile.

Offensive counters are limited to ground types that don't die to a +2 sucker punch... which is basically Lando-T and not much else.

Keldeo and Terra do the job as well, the thing is that Mawile has a harder time getting that +2 against offense. Against defense its kinda easy to set up and just crush everything that comes your way. Offense will usually have something to take it out even at +2 and getting there is far more difficult.

And as said, neither Venu nor Heatran are save counters, well together they make a somewhat reliable counter as Venu walls the subpunch set which kills Heatran who walls the SD set but still, you need 2 mons to get it done and will lose on of them if you mispredict.
answers in bold
 
Well , lots of people are saying to ban mawilite while others (including myself) dont want this to get banned wich gives a lot of raging for the both sides so I think we should analyse why its pros and cons honestly

Pros: Massive attack, SD to boost that gargantum attack stat , Sucker Punch wich is pretty strong and has priority , the right moves to hit his would be checks (like FP) and the I might be missing a couple more but now cons.

Cons: real predictable once you know if its SD variant or SubPunch variant, has lots of CHECKS(no counters guys but really you cant counter everything in this meta)like for e ample common pokemon like megavenu , heatran , lando-t , etc... (the former two are common pokemon used as a core and since it a common core your garanteed to check mawile-mega ,a another con it has is its weakness to common attacking moves like earthquake and fire type attack and its low HP doesnt help it at all(though his defenses are Ok i guess), its low speed honestly that doenst help it at all especially against opposing priority users(being reallistic here )

After all this I say no ban-hammer to the pokemon but perhaps to Focus Punch in mawile-mega's arsenal would be a neutral thing to do since the only REAL reason its being suspect tested is because of FP without it people wouldnt really complain from both sides also i'd like to say that I feel like the people that want this pokemon banned are those people that are using EVERY single pokemon but the OU pokemon in Ou ive only seen about 3 people that I know are real competitive battlers and are saying" Ban it"also smogon council you should proly just ban FP on mawile and not the pokemon its really ok in the ou environment really just that subpunch makes it unhealthy for it but without it its alright
 
Everyone mentions how MMawile "Always gets one KO if played intelligently and can easily get 2 KOs every game without problem and has few counters, ban"

Let me just say that any time someone has to use their Mega slot to get one or two KOs, that Mega isn't too ridiculous. Mawile means that person can't use Venusaur, Charizard, Medicham, Heracross, or Pinsir in any capacity, and each of those pokemon is ALSO worth the equivalent of one or two KOs per match if used correctly. If we're just going to ban every Mega evolution that has an edge in a metagame, just go back and play BW already. This metagame has mega evolutions, and they're SUPPOSED to kick butt. Besides, a guaranteed 1-for-1 where one of the players loses their mega evolved pokemon seems like a bad deal to me, and even if it only gets two KOs before it dies that still is reasonable and very much "heard" of.

Don't ban Mega Evolutions just because they can ruin things, if we start to do that then Mega Medicham, Pinsir, Heracross, Charizard X and possibly even Charizard Y and Venusaur (though they are stretches) are all going to end up being banned, one by one. Mega Evolutions are supposed to be incredible, which is why Gamefreak LIMITED THEM TO ONE PER TEAM (like Baton Pass) FOR US!
 

Inflikted

Orco2
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Mega Mawile is just great. Just not broken, either. List of things that check the SD mega mawile:

Offense/bulky offense:
Conkeldurr
Terrakion

stuff
Conkeldurr is actually checked by mega mawile. Terrakion only revenge kills a weakened mawile and is always destroyed if mawile is at full health, as basically all it does is dying to get off some damage. Providing a list of checks (shitty or just wrong ones, too) isn't even a true reason not to ban stuff.

252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 160-190 (56.3 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Terrakion Earthquake vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 180-212 (63.3 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Terrakion Earthquake vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 120-142 (42.2 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
mawile's spread from this analysis


After all this I say no ban-hammer to the pokemon but perhaps to Focus Punch in mawile-mega's arsenal would be a neutral thing to do since the only REAL reason its being suspect tested is because of FP without it people wouldnt really complain from both sides also i'd like to say that I feel like the people that want this pokemon banned are those people that are using EVERY single pokemon but the OU pokemon in Ou ive only seen about 3 people that I know are real competitive battlers and are saying" Ban it"also smogon council you should proly just ban FP on mawile and not the pokemon its really ok in the ou environment really just that subpunch makes it unhealthy for it but without it its alright
Did you really say that you would balance mawile by nerfing its movepool? Idk how much you are familiar with smogon's tiering but if there's something that will never be done to balance a metagame, well...it's that.
 
Last edited:
some of the anti ban arguments are fucking ridiculous.... how is anyone going to say " it's not broken cuz fire types rek it and stuff and urrrm ground types too, don't forget bout will o wisp" All the people saying this obviously have zero knowledge about the OU meta. This thing destroys offense and it's far from dead weight against stall. There isn't a single mon as broken as this in the tier. I honestly believe we are like 4/5 bans away from a decent meta. soo yeah ban it, no mon switches in risk free until you know the set, it could already get a KO by then though or even worse have an SD boost...
 
Having nearly 700 attack without even having to boost first is nothing short of grotesque, really. While it's very slow, which would severely limit the issue otherwise, the fact that it's got a very strong priority attack to hand in the form of Sucker Punch pretty much negates that. While each of its sets do have concrete counters, the fact that there are next to no viable universal counters and SubPunch and SD sets each have the capacity to ruin each others counters make playing against this thing very dicey indeed if it can force a switch (quite easy thanks to its base form's ability, Intimidate.) If you pick a counter and guess wrong, and Mawile gets a chance to set up a sub or an SD, you're one poke down in the best scenario and looking down the barrel of a game-ending Sucker-Punch assisted sweep at worst. It's similar to Mega Lucario in that regard, fail to guess what set you're facing and you're likely to get fucked with no chance of recourse.

I'm glad that the staff are actually looking at cleaning all the insanely powerful stuff like this out of the metagame. Hopefully this will go some way to arresting OU's slide towards becoming Ubers-lite with the absurd power creep taking place over this gen and the last one.
 
Honestly I hope they do just that it'd be the most logical thing to do to have a neutral agreedment nerf mawiles FP to keep it in ou and i think this argument is better than saying the truth wich happens to be you guys just dont know how to play competitively and IMO smogon should proly ban those people I mean jonestly its not our fault you guys use UU and NU pokemon in an OU environment and dont know how to teambuild properly cuz Mawile isnt a threat when you KNOW how to play all the people that want it to be banned are saying oh but its got SP and PR and SD etc.... yeah it does but when you play correctly it cant even set up being realistic if you see a mawile ifs obviously the mega and you know you should nt let it set up therefore you must have a plan wich is the point of the game!! To always have a plan to deal with threats , just because it has threatning moves and set up oportunities doesnt mean its broken , lucarionite , deo's, aegi those ARE broken be cause you couldnt even play around them mawile-mega on the other hand can be played around and if it can be played around then IMO its not broken also you people that want it banned should start out by

1)using REAL competitive teams not crapy teams that should be used in the lower tiers

2)learn the meta read the analysis and learn how to play around threats just because you cant play around this pokemon doesnt mean its broken just stop crying and build a team that can help you around this poke and youll be fine
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top