np: XY OU Suspect Testing Round 6 - Wrecking Ball [Read Post 423 for Posting etiquette]

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So it's Mmawile now, huh? Well when it was Aegis the one being tested I said basically that you should decide if you liked the aegis meta or not, he was not a clearly OP mon but he was distorting the entire meta with his presence and the best question that time in my mind was "is the meta good/diverse/enjoyable right now?", however Mawile is completely different, I don't think his ban will change the meta that much as what was good will still be good after he goes (well maybe defensive Char Y will take a hit in usage) but he is just a ridiculous OP pokémon who doesn't belong in the tier at all.

Seriously, everything else with that level of power is either in Ubers or have some huge drawbacks (MMedicham and KyuB's terrible typings for example) while Mawile only drawback is that it is slow, but this is fixed by the fact he has a 80 bp priority with one of the best offensive types in the game, everything else is just amazing on this guy, his typing is stellar, his pre-mega ability is very useful, he has basically everything he needs on his movepoll (swords dance, Play Rough, Sucker Punch, Focus Punch, Elemental fangs, Iron head and heck even Foul Play), so where is the huge drawback that could keep all that power balanced? Sorry but MMawile needs to go.
 
As a frequent user of Mega Mawile myself, i've found that Mawile is fairly vulnerable if you already have out a Pokemon that can prey on Mawile's Steel type weakness. Mawile also has nothing going for it once it's hit with a burn, and if your opponent has their own intimidate user and cuts it's attack, you may as well use it as cannon fodder.

It's rather poor speed means it's reliant on Sucker Punch to get the jump on faster Pokemon, but it's easy enough to trick a Mega Mawile into mistiming a sucker punch, allowing you to spend multiple turns setting up. Then after a few turns they'll probably be forced/chance a play Rough, in which you eradicate it with a Earthquake or a Fire move of some description (which are both quite prominent types in OU as far as i see). Even if you don't kill it, it's poor bulk means it's weak to priority, so you'll have probably worn it down on the first mon, and could easily finish it off with a priority move or another next turn. Essentially, Mawile is only a viable threat if you give it a turn to set up. The first turn it has to lay a sub or swords dance or else it won't be powerful enough for a KO and will get killed itself.
Someone brought up the simple fact in game mechanics that in order to defeat a Pokemon, you have to bring its HP to zero. This could be accomplished through numerous means: (1) such as attrition to hazards, Rocky Helmet, Iron Barbs, Rough Skin; (2) status damages through burns, poison, toxic, or even the more rare Ghost Curse; (3) simply attacking it.

Regarding 1-3:

(1) Spikes is not that ubiquitous in OU anymore, and it takes a paltry 6.25% from Stealth Rock, not entirely negligible, but that can bring it in OHKO range for specific attacks. Losing a Pokemon that has Rocky Helmet, or inflicts damage on contact may not be that good at all

(2) It Steel attribute means it cannot be Toxic. This increases the defensive utility of Mawile (as one contributing factor why defensive, stall-oriented Pokemon are viable in OU are due to immunity to certain status). Thus, it could only be burned and reduces the pool of Pokemon that can deal with it this way: Heatran, Mega Gardevoir, Gengar, and the Rotom-W/H. A predicted Wil-O-Wisp can be exploited by Focus Punch or one of its STAB moves. Furthemore, Iron Head always KOs Mega Gardevoir, regardless of its being burned, and Sucker Punch almost always KOs Gengar if it is burned, of course. Mega Garde could only Focus Blast (or HP Ground if it is running it for a more reliable move against Heatran) for 54-63%.

(3) 1 and 2 means that it is likely that one's recourse is to resort to an attack, meaning that you have to take a Sucker Punch, especially with frail attackers. It is hard to stall out all the Sucker Punch PP, and one always has to be wary of a Swords Dance boost. The Swords Dance boost can be assisted with its pre-evolutionary ability Intimidate, and of course, predicted switches can be capitalized on.

This means that Mega Mawile can exert pressure in almost any game context, due to its threat of setting up, access to priority that renders speed tiers almost irrelevant, difficulty to OHKO (Adamant STAB Earthquake from something such as Lando-T is able to do it), or simply attacking with a STAB move.

If we start banning Megas due to the fact they can easily OHKO other pokemon and have little checks, we'll have to start moving on to pretty much every Mega in the game because they are all OP. Mega Char Y for example, outspeeds mostly everything on the same bracket and i have never seen a battle where its sun boosted flamethrower hasn't been a OHKO unless against a Water type.

Also, it would be a shame to see a pokemon that was essentially useless pre Gen 6 be thrown back down into the abyss because the only thing that makes it viable in the Metagame is banned. If we keep banning stuff from Gen 6 we're going to be left with nothing but Gen 5 with some new items.
No, it is harder to play around Mega Mawile, despite its low speed because it has priority and can threaten set-up because it always threatens Sucker Punch, unlike Heracross and Gardevoir.
 
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I haven't gone through every page but here are my initial thoughts.

Mega-Mawile has alot going for it. Fairy/Steel is one the best typing in the game, combined with good physical bulk allows it can switch into almost any non-super effective physical hit at least once. Pre-Evo comes with Intimidate. Huge Power makes it the hardest hitting pokemon that can switch between moves in OU. Sucker Punch is a semi-reliable priority move. Pretty good coverage as well; its power and coverage makes it virtually uncounterable.

Then comes the flaws. 50 Speed is terrible, relies heavily on Sucker Punch if not under Trick Room for anything team that's remotely offensive. 4MSS hurts it alot. Weaknesses to Common Ground and Fire moves without Aegislash level bulk to tank them. Hard hitting neutral Stab special attacks in general are going to take Mega-Mawile out if you get them off. Burn is everywhere in OU and makes it useless if it gets hit by it, unlike Aegislash, which can still Shadow Ball spam; this is compounded by its awful speed.

Apart from being slightly biased since Trick Room pretty much hinges on Mega-Mawile right now, I think that it's just...a very good pokemon. It reminds me alot of Terrakion right before BW2, except you're slow as hell and have Sucker Punch to kinda help with that. Yes, nothing except stuff from the lower tiers is switching into every set. Yes, you can put it on almost any offensive team and it will pull its weight. Yes, sub sets are bitchy, and it can use X(Rock Gem/HP Ice) to get pass its "counters". The Band set without any predictions skills at all had a 50/50 chance of killing something. And I know there were some that wanted it gone, but Smogon never really got to that point of banning it.

There are a couple of differences from Aegislash and Mega-Mawile. Pokemon aren't running X just hit Mega-Mawile. Outside of a slow Substitute, it can't really do anything against Burn. The Sucker Punch 50/50 is different from King Shield 50/50, mainly because you don't lose much if you click King Shield, but you can die every time you click Sucker Punch. The 50/50 wasn't the problem with Aegislash, it was the King Shield safety net, and I'm not really comfortable with banning a pokemon due to Sword Dance Sucker Punch, which has always been a 50/50. The Sub Punch is more of an issue, but I'm not quite sure if that's worth banning.

For now I'm going to go with No Ban until I've played the suspect tier/read something to change my mind.
 
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The quality of some of these post seem like they were made by people who literally gotten no higher than 1300 on the normal ladder or clearly have no clue of high level plays. Just saying! Seriously tho, majority of the pro-ban arguments make hellah more sense than most of the anti-ban ones to the point I'm actually glad Aegislash is currently ban because otherwise the quality of some of the anti-ban post would be worse.

In summary of this whole thread so far: Mawile is just as busted as the broken records who are just spewing nothing but decorated bullshit just because they want to keep it around instead of laddering.

Also, why people keep insisting that Mawile will stay in and get burned and that everything that can burn it wants to try and switch into it, if you say Heatran then I must deserve an A for pressing focus punch knowing full damn well Mawile forces a switch very easily. Gengar without a sub up, I'll give you that one but it still doesn't want to switch into it.
I'm 1833 and I was more than 1900...

What does Sucker Punch to Zard X ? Mega Scizor ? Tran ? Rotom W ? Greninja ? Keldeo ? Mega Venusaur ? Gliscor ? Those Pokémons are maybe... the most frequent in OU... Aren't they?
Yes, it can have the Focus Punch but it's so easy to check Mega Mawile. Even in spite of having pressure: you have so much more pressure with Keldeo, Greninja and Excadrill which are faster and can 1-2HKO anything after Stealth Rock. Just take a Charizard, a Mega Venusaur, a Rotom Wash, a Landorus-T, an Excadrill, a Gliscor, a Gyarados, and you can be safe. And those Pokémon are one of the MOST frequent in OU. Who doesn't have one of them? Me, okay lol But nobody else... Or very few people...
 
I'm 1833 and I was more than 1900...

What does Sucker Punch to Zard X ? Mega Scizor ? Tran ? Rotom W ? Greninja ? Keldeo ? Mega Venusaur ? Gliscor ? Those Pokémons are maybe... the most frequent in OU... Aren't they?
Yes, it can have the Focus Punch but it's so easy to check Mega Mawile. Even in spite of having pressure: you have so much more pressure with Keldeo, Greninja and Excadrill which are faster and can 1-2HKO anything after Stealth Rock. Just take a Charizard, a Mega Venusaur, a Rotom Wash, a Landorus-T, an Excadrill, a Gliscor, a Gyarados, and you can be safe. And those Pokémon are one of the MOST frequent in OU. Who doesn't have one of them? Me, okay lol But nobody else... Or very few people...
The problem is, none of them are counters. I do agree that the age of hard counters has passed since like gen 5 but every time it comes in against offense it gets a kill. And it is very possible for it to chain together kills to open up a hole for a sweeper to take advantage of and finish off, or sweep itself. You have to remember MMawile has a team its supporting and in turn is supporting MMawile itself. It's not as simple as revenge killing it either, as Sucker Punch kills off what might try to revenge it. Its so blatantly borked I'm not even going to bother laddering.
 
Even after Stealth Rock, and even with Play Rough, Focus Punch, Fire Fang, Knock Off, and Iron Head with Sucker Punch after :
Landorus T, Gliscor, Gyarados, Vaporeon, Quagsire and Donphan can counter it ANYWAY. Yes, that's only 6 Pokemons. Mega Mawile is maybe the Pokemon with the less direct counters. But it's like Greninja, Excadrill and Keldeo: they will probably kill anything, but AFTER, after killing (if it's not good predicted or what), it's really easy to check Mega Mawile. With Will O or something else. Even the Kyurem's Earth Power with Life Orb can OHKO it. You'll tell me that you can switch after killing, but it's the same for Excadrill, Greninja and Keldeo.
And like I said, the Sucker Punch gives nothing against the 6 Pokemon in Bold + Charizard X, Mega Scizor, Greninja, Keldeo, Tyranitar, and Mega Venusaur.
And having Mega Mawile in your team implies that you CANNOT have any other Mega Evolution in yours. It looks stupid to remain that but Mega Scizor, Medicham, Venusaur and Charizard X are so powerful too.

So, not banned. But I respect other points of view.
Wait, so you're 1833, and you're suggesting DONPHAN for a counter to mega mawile?

Quag is 2hkoed, Vapo...lol, Gyara and Lando don't have reliable recovery, and Gliscor loses if boosted.

Also, no one is saying that it can't be (OH)KOed, and being OHKOed by some common attacks doesnt stop you from being broken in the slightest. For one a mega mawile user who has a brain would switch out, and... well yeah. Every pokemon is capable of being OHKOed but that's besides the point.

...eh I'm tired, I'll write more later.
 
Landorus T, Gliscor, Gyarados, Vaporeon, Quagsire and Donphan can counter it ANYWAY. Yes, that's only 6 Pokemons. Mega Mawile is maybe the Pokemon with the less direct counters. But it's like Greninja, Excadrill and Keldeo: they will probably kill anything, but AFTER, after killing (if it's not good predicted or what), it's really easy to check Mega Mawile. With Will O or something else. Even the Kyurem's Earth Power with Life Orb can OHKO it. You'll tell me that you can switch after killing, but it's the same for Excadrill, Greninja and Keldeo.


So, not banned. But I respect other points of view.
Lando T and Gliscor can work as well as anything, assuming Mawile's not randomly running Ice Fang, but most of the things you listed aren't even counters.
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 222-262 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 546-643 (117.6 - 138.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 352-415 (91.6 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

I don't even know what to say about Gyarados. Do I really need to do calcs to show why that's not a counter?
 
This is what is most common on mawile. I think that the Other moves section is too high.

Average Ladder stats:
Moves | | Sucker Punch 94.529% | | Play Rough 94.498% | | Swords Dance 63.269% | | Iron Head 53.308% | | Fire Fang 32.119% | | Substitute 16.197% | | Focus Punch 13.632% | | Knock Off 7.096% | | Ice Punch 3.525% | | Brick Break 2.937% | | Other 18.890%

Standard Stats.
Moves | | Sucker Punch 97.698% | | Play Rough 96.172% | | Swords Dance 61.137% | | Fire Fang 42.352% | | Iron Head 32.944% | | Focus Punch 27.711% | | Substitute 24.428% | | Other 17.558%

Elite stats:
Moves | | Sucker Punch 96.422% | | Play Rough 95.714% | | Swords Dance 71.102% | | Fire Fang 56.331% | | Iron Head 24.177% | | Focus Punch 20.320% | | Substitute 16.548% | | Other 19.387%

Even though usage ==/== viability, this stats show the most common moves that Mawile may run on a given set.

First of all, by seeing this post, I know that there are checks and counters of Mega Mawile in this post.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ou-check-and-counter-list.3503873/page-2#post-5375578

Checks: Rotom-W.
His main method of dealing with it is by Will-o-Wisp it (it's faster, no worry) + Hydro Pump. Then, Rotyom-W has a chance of winning/scouting. It's a shaky check.

Garchomp: Mawile has a chance of survive an EQ at +0, while Mawile OHKoes Garchomp with Play Rough. However, with little damage, has a high chance of OHKO if his attack is intact. EQ is the first turn is a great idea to evade SD at all costs. However, LO and CB clearly OHKOes Mawile.

Talonflame: Can revege kill with Flare Blit from the CB set. However, it's a shaky check and can only revenge kill and can't be with his loved Brave Bird. Can stomach one Play Rough, though.

Keldeo: Hydro Pump and Hydro Pump. Standard Mawile (132 HP) is OHKoed by it. Obviously OHKoed by Play Rough.


Counters: In theory, this pokemon are counters unboosted:

Mega Venusaur: It's almost a counter because witht he defensive set Mawile can't even 3HKO it. His main set of dealing with it is Leech Seed. It works evden though we have to deal. Also, HP Fire from offensive Venusaur 2HKOes.

Heatran: the Specially Defensive set almost counters any Mawile without focus Punch (and those aren'0t the most common ones),

Skarmory: Can Whirlwind while it tries to set up an SD. However, beware of boosted Fire fang.

Hippowdon: His EQ will 2HKO while Mawile has only a chance of 2HKO with Play rough. Be aware that Mawile usually outspeed it.

Counters in any situation:

Yes, there are counters to it. very rare, but Aggron can help with.

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 87-103 (25.2 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

Suycker Punc ha dn play Rough (his main moves) are worse dealing with Mega Aggron EQ 2HKoes back.

Let's see if the analyses mentions other checks of Mawile.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/mawile.3495151/

Terrakion:it's a situational check (Play rough), but the Scarf version 2HKO Mawile with teither Close Combat or Earthquake and can't Sucker Punch against it because it gives a boost that can (and possibly will) cost an OHKO. The LO and CB verison does even mroe damage.

And all these checks, wioth the exception of Mega Aggron (who is a counter, the only one) all of them are very good pokemon of their own.

Edit: About some suggestions. gyarados ias a check of Mawile. Can Intimidate it, use DD as a Gyarados, Mega Evolve and use Waterfall/Earthquake. Gyarados can take a +1 Sucker Punch if needed.
 
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As an hyper-offensive player I didn't think much of Mega Maw at first. Mostly because I am used to sack pokemon for free turns but then I tried to look for checks and yeah I have to admit even my Keldeo who resist sucker punch didn't like taking them and then I checked out just how powerful this thing is and to my astonishment I realized Mega Maw is the hardest hitting attacker in the whole pokemon game. Even Mega Mewtwo X and Mega Kangaskhan don't hit as hard as Mega Mawile and to get sword dance and a good priority move on top of that and you got yourself a monstrous waifu on your hands.

Now granted it's speed and hp are rather lackluster so it relies a lot on sucker punch and play rough is it's best attack so there are always two moves on every Mega Maw set but with substitute, sword dance, focus punch, iron head, fire fang and knock off it can create enough variety for different sets for every poke that can threaten it. It doesn't help that thanks to it's typing and solid 125/95 defense stats it's easier said than done to knock it out, especially with Intimidate to force switches even if you have SE moves. Granted Intimidate can be only used until it mega evolves but Mega Maw really only needs one turn to wreck the opposing team with substitute or sword dance, even if it doesn't sweep it will punch hole through it for others to sweep. This thing's power is just so astronomical that there is nothing in OU that can take hits from it, especially after a sword dance. It doesn't help either that sucker punch makes it a incredibly difficult task to just revenge kill it. There is just no way around it. It's power is too much OU and the best checks/counters for it have little use outside of checking Mega Maw so it is pretty obvious it strains the metagame and needs to get out.

Not much of a argument, Mega Maw needs to go.
 
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Sure this was already said but base 105 is a funny low amount of attack... oh wait. Huge Power? Mega Mawile has base 210 Attack. It has THE HIGHEST attack stat of anything in the ENTIRE GAME, it LELs at Zekrom, Kyrum-Black, Mega Heracorss, Mega Mewtwo X even Mega Medicahm! Well ok just having the highest attack in the game isn't broken. But then it uses Swords Dance. Well ok ok... it doesn't have speed worth crap though. Oh, but it does have Sucker Punch....

This thing is independently the simplest and most effective singular win condition in current OU. In a lot of ways it's about as formulaic as Mega Kanga, and in fact similar to Mega Kanga what breaks it beyond repair is Sucker Punch (imo)

And because I already read it at least once. I don't think it's easy to bash on its switch in opportunities based on "poor non mega stats" when you stop and consider it's typing and pre-mega Intimidates.
 

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Sure this was already said but base 105 is a funny low amount of attack... oh wait. Huge Power? Mega Mawile has base 210 Attack. It has THE HIGHEST attack stat of anything in the ENTIRE GAME, it LELs at Zekrom, Kyrum-Black, Mega Heracorss, Mega Mewtwo X even Mega Medicahm! Well ok just having the highest attack in the game isn't broken. But then it uses Swords Dance. Well ok ok... it doesn't have speed worth crap though. Oh, but it does have Sucker Punch....

This thing is independently the simplest and most effective singular win condition in current OU. In a lot of ways it's about as formulaic as Mega Kanga, and in fact similar to Mega Kanga what breaks it beyond repair is Sucker Punch (imo)

And because I already read it at least once. I don't think it's easy to bash on its switch in opportunities based on "poor non mega stats" when you stop and consider it's typing and pre-mega Intimidates.
It's effectively a 260 base Attack stat even. Remember, the IVs and EVs are doubled as well, assuming max investment that constitutes an extra 50 o.0 For reference, the highest 'official' base attack stat is Mega Mewtwo X's 190. Mega Khan reaches 213, factoring in Parental Bond.
 
Another thing that I believe hasn't been touched on enough is Mawile's absolutely FANTASTIC typing. Like, one of the very best in the entire game. It has two immunities, one being very common, nine resistances, and only two weaknesses. It's immune to Toxic, which is actually what makes Sucker Punch so deadly: you have to attack it, you can't just whittle it down with poison. Because of it's typing (and pre-Mega ability, Intimidate), Mawile switches in on so much stuff. And because it has zero or a very limited number of counters, yet plenty of checks, it's necessary to switch to play around it. Thing is, Mawile can set up a SD on the switch (against offense or stall), smack an incoming check with Play Rough (against balance) which does a ton of damage, or Sub and Focus Punch (Heatran). Something with such a ridiculous combination of power, priority, bulk, and typing is unhealthy for the metagame.
 
I think Mega Mawile needs to go. Its Attack Stat and Metagame presence is just too strong.
Also its omnipresence impairs and restricts TeamBuilding to a point, where it is simply too influencing for a single Pokémon.
It is easily capable of compensating its low speed by forcing switches and having access to suckerpunch.
Also, its typing is easaly one of the best in the tier. For an offensive Pokémon, only two weaknesses are , again, ridiculously good and hard to break when paired up with a defensive mon.
Mawile can easaly be paired up with only one or two other Pokémon to form a crazy strong and synergetic offensive core. Mawile with a good core can be enough to take care of half of the tier.
Mawiles STABs are ridiculously strong and can tear whole teams apart in only a few turns. It also has access to many good coverage moves to break down its "counters". Literally no physical wall of the Tier stands a chance against Mawiles Fire/Ice Fang, Focus Punch or Knock Off. Its offensive counters are also limited because of its pure power and Priority. It can force a switch, set up a Swords Dance and it is basiclly "game" because no offensive switch-in can take on a +2 Mawile with a fast sucker punch. There are numeourus reasons that have already been mentioned often in the previous Posts to why this beast must leave the Tier. Sure, one can argue, there still are some Pokémon in the tier that can stop Mawile to a certain point, but still, they are nothing but Checks or really frail counters ("you can switch in your Quagsire on a +2 Mawile, it resists steel STABs and has great physical Bulk- Mawiles Play Rough still is a 2HKO-how is that a check or even a counter?). And the fact, that there needs to be at least one of these per team already implies that Mawile inluenced TeamBuilding and Playstyle so clearly, it is hard to overlook its colossal impact on playing competetive Pokémon.
 
It's effectively a 260 base Attack stat even. Remember, the IVs and EVs are doubled as well, assuming max investment that constitutes an extra 50 o.0 For reference, the highest 'official' base attack stat is Mega Mewtwo X's 190. Mega Khan reaches 213, factoring in Parental Bond.
Or as another reference M-Mawiles, raw unboosted attack is damagier than the majority of (or maybe all but I don't want to say that) boosting physical attacker at +1. Like we can look at the other most deadly physical boosting sweeper type monster M-Charizard X who (when Adamant mind you) hits 591 effective attack after doing a little dance. M-mawile can launch an UNBOOSTED attack from a stat that is effectively 678!! Almost 90 points higher without even boosting! So it's just flipping insane what it's doing at +2
 
I'm 1833 and I was more than 1900...

What does Sucker Punch to Zard X ? Mega Scizor ? Tran ? Rotom W ? Greninja ? Keldeo ? Mega Venusaur ? Gliscor ? Those Pokémons are maybe... the most frequent in OU... Aren't they?
Yes, it can have the Focus Punch but it's so easy to check Mega Mawile. Even in spite of having pressure: you have so much more pressure with Keldeo, Greninja and Excadrill which are faster and can 1-2HKO anything after Stealth Rock. Just take a Charizard, a Mega Venusaur, a Rotom Wash, a Landorus-T, an Excadrill, a Gliscor, a Gyarados, and you can be safe. And those Pokémon are one of the MOST frequent in OU. Who doesn't have one of them? Me, okay lol But nobody else... Or very few people...
I'll bite:
Zard-X: Find time to mega before rocks are up and don't switch into Mawile and you are fine!
M-Scizor/Scizor: Why Sucker punch this? Fire fang! or I can just go into something that fucks Scizor or stay in guessing it has U-turn maybe. Hmmm... tricky but most maw do have fire fang.
Tran: Why would I Sucker punch this or stay in on this? Other than that One of two mon that can be considered a hard counter to it but switching in can be risky cuz F-punch.
Rotow-W: Can't come in until after the fact Maw kills something.
Venasaur: Why Sucker punch this, this is also set up fodder for maw's SD set but other than that, probably the only one who can be considered a true hard counter.
Gliscor: Can't come in on play rough if already lower than 50% HP! 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 180-213 (50.8 - 60.1%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal. Rocks ensures the 2hko at full health and poison heal so eh... maybe if you manage to keep it alive that long.
Greninja: Only after the fact Maw bites or kills something can it threaten it out.
Keldeo: ^

Basically in short, most of these mon can only do something after the fact Mawile probably obliterates something, the problem with Mawile is nothing wants to come in on it without losing a fuck load of HP or out right getting stream rolled, a good player also have something for things Mawile doesn't kill, able cripple it in some way or can possibly set up on it. I can see where you are coming from with the pressure thing but yea, the problem is its ability to pretty much smack the shit out of you with her nice n powerful weave simply by just switching into her is where her pressure comes from and that you more than likely can't do nothing until after the fact it hits you or kills something. Sucker Punch adds to this pressure because the fact its predictable can often be leading cause of your match, not all Mawile are obligated to use it right away you know. I would talk about the magic of how a free sub/turn can easily be the death of you as well, but I need a nap.
 
They're "mega" mons for a reason and they were put in gen 6 and they're here to stay as we see from ORAS. Our obviousy broken megas(luc, blaziken, kanga) are gone for good reason and keeping the meta together and in line is important, but to neglect the idea that this is how the game is now is to leave yourself with lots of static ideas and reasoning.

Does M-Mawile centralize things? - No, I don't see him on every team. People prefer other megas or other sweepers.
Does every mon in OU have numerous valid checks and counters? No, at times we need to sac or outspeed to get kills on certain mons. A part of the game is keeping alive what you need in order to win in the end.
Is the sweeper role a new thing and are there no other devastating sweepers in the meta? Nope, there are plenty and with the power creep the past two gens we've seen more and more of them.

It's easy to say "I want this gone", but it's important to consider that this is Gen 6 OU and it's not really going to change too much: People use megas, they're strong, and they're a part of the game. IMO Thundy should be considered before M-Mawile and it doesn't even have it's ability or a priority attack. I'd say Thundy is a much easier win condition than M-Mawile.

Whether or not I think we're going in the right direction with the meta, and whether or not I think we're ignoring the changes gen 6 brought us by systematically removing them to try and bring back gen 4, here are my views on m-mawile:

50 base speed is tough to set up with and hard to hit mons with. Even most walls are faster than 50 base speed.
M-Mawile isn't particularly bulky and it has common weaknesses, coupled with my previous point, M-Mawile needs to pick it's spots to get things going.
M-Mawile switching out is counter-productive to it's team due to the two previous points. It's not like it's going to come in and kill everything later on given it's speed and common weaknesses-- once it gets going it's usually either late game or it's staying in until it dies.
M-Mawile's priority can be it's weakness as we know(can be liable to status) but priority at 50 base speed also leaves it open to being hit by faster priority and priority is very common as we know.
M-Mawile is stopped by a variety of mons despite them not being true counters or checks, it's likely something on your team can resist a sucker punch and score a kill or just scare it off nd it's up to you as the player to keep that mon healthy to do the same thing later in the match-- and with M-Mawile's other not so great qualities, it's not really too bad when it shows up again unless you screw up.
M-Mawile's variety shows up in only a few different ways

In the end, M-Mawile is a sweeper and commonly a win condition for those who choose to use it, however, it's not like you can just click a button and win. There are plenty of things stopping it and unlike M-Scizor or M-Charizard, or other megas with recovery, it's not like it's switching in and out to kill everything and recovering and it isn't quick enough to keep showing up and killing stuff. It should stay because it's a good mon that's not as easy as it looks to win with and despite "true checks/counters", it can be slowed down or stopped.
 
I'm 1833 and I was more than 1900...

What does Sucker Punch to Zard X ? Mega Scizor ? Tran ? Rotom W ? Greninja ? Keldeo ? Mega Venusaur ? Gliscor ? Those Pokémons are maybe... the most frequent in OU... Aren't they?
Yes, it can have the Focus Punch but it's so easy to check Mega Mawile. Even in spite of having pressure: you have so much more pressure with Keldeo, Greninja and Excadrill which are faster and can 1-2HKO anything after Stealth Rock. Just take a Charizard, a Mega Venusaur, a Rotom Wash, a Landorus-T, an Excadrill, a Gliscor, a Gyarados, and you can be safe. And those Pokémon are one of the MOST frequent in OU. Who doesn't have one of them? Me, okay lol But nobody else... Or very few people...
Yes, because people leave Mawile in on Zard X, and a switch to Zard X has this to its face:
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 164 HP / 164 Def Mega Charizard X: 220-259 (65 - 76.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Even with higher defense evs and no rocks, it still dies afterwards to a Sucker Punch).
People run Fire Fang on the SD set sometimes.
Heatran no like Subpunch.
Rotom-W can't take a PR on a switch, and I wouldn't leave my Mawile in on a Rotom-W for fear of WoW.
Grenin doesn't really check Mawile unless it carries HP Fire, and even so:
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 226-268 (74.3 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (2 SP's in turn kill Grenin.)
Keldeo? 50/50 chance w/ the most the most common set.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 279-328 (91.7 - 107.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Venu is pretty good, I'll give it there. It can stop Mawile in its tracks most of the time unless it carries the occasional fire fang and even so, it has thick fat,
Gliscor doesn't want a PR to the face:
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 180-213 (50.8 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal

Gyara is not safe from the onslaught that is PR. EQ doesn't OHKO w/ no boost either:
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 226-266 (74.3 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
In turn:
-1 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 344-408 (103.6 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Exca, Lando I/T, and Venu seem to be the only great checks in your post. Keldeo can ohko circumstantially but is then trapped and would be easy fodder for its teammates.

Imo, I'll be laddering for the reqs to get Mawile banned.

tl;dr: Mawile has very few checks, no counters that can be thought of easily. (First that comes to mind is defensive lando t).
 
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AM

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They're "mega" mons for a reason and they were put in gen 6 and they're here to stay as we see from ORAS. Our obviousy broken megas(luc, blaziken, kanga) are gone for good reason and keeping the meta together and in line is important, but to neglect the idea that this is how the game is now is to leave yourself with lots of static ideas and reasoning.

Does M-Mawile centralize things? - No, I don't see him on every team. People prefer other megas or other sweepers.
Does every mon in OU have numerous valid checks and counters? No, at times we need to sac or outspeed to get kills on certain mons. A part of the game is keeping alive what you need in order to win in the end.
Is the sweeper role a new thing and are there no other devastating sweepers in the meta? Nope, there are plenty and with the power creep the past two gens we've seen more and more of them.

It's easy to say "I want this gone", but it's important to consider that this is Gen 6 OU and it's not really going to change too much: People use megas, they're strong, and they're a part of the game. IMO Thundy should be considered before M-Mawile and it doesn't even have it's ability or a priority attack. I'd say Thundy is a much easier win condition than M-Mawile.

Whether or not I think we're going in the right direction with the meta, and whether or not I think we're ignoring the changes gen 6 brought us by systematically removing them to try and bring back gen 4, here are my views on m-mawile:

50 base speed is tough to set up with and hard to hit mons with. Even most walls are faster than 50 base speed.
M-Mawile isn't particularly bulky and it has common weaknesses, coupled with my previous point, M-Mawile needs to pick it's spots to get things going.
M-Mawile switching out is counter-productive to it's team due to the two previous points. It's not like it's going to come in and kill everything later on given it's speed and common weaknesses-- once it gets going it's usually either late game or it's staying in until it dies.
M-Mawile's priority can be it's weakness as we know(can be liable to status) but priority at 50 base speed also leaves it open to being hit by faster priority and priority is very common as we know.
M-Mawile is stopped by a variety of mons despite them not being true counters or checks, it's likely something on your team can resist a sucker punch and score a kill or just scare it off nd it's up to you as the player to keep that mon healthy to do the same thing later in the match-- and with M-Mawile's other not so great qualities, it's not really too bad when it shows up again unless you screw up.
M-Mawile's variety shows up in only a few different ways

In the end, M-Mawile is a sweeper and commonly a win condition for those who choose to use it, however, it's not like you can just click a button and win. There are plenty of things stopping it and unlike M-Scizor or M-Charizard, or other megas with recovery, it's not like it's switching in and out to kill everything and recovering and it isn't quick enough to keep showing up and killing stuff. It should stay because it's a good mon that's not as easy as it looks to win with and despite "true checks/counters", it can be slowed down or stopped.
All the other points have been elaborated on by a bunch of others so I'll ignore those for now and argue the one I bolded, italicized, and underlined in your quote. Imo that statement is false. In most cases, you click one button and chances are you're good to go. You either just won right at that moment, destroyed something from sheer power, or you've won without your opponent and maybe even yourself realizing it (more along the lines of the sub set). Finding an opportunity to bring in M-Mawile and get a free turn is much easier than you think. It's Dual typing, Intimidate, coverage moves, among other traits makes M-Mawile have plenty of opportunities in most games. I think every time I've seen a replay of Mawile coming in, they came in at the perfect time and most of the time there was no thought process involved. I don't think that's a desirable mon that should be in OU. That's my thought on the matter.
 
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I find that Mawile's poor speed is a bad argument and here's why:

He doesn't need it.

Mawile threatens so many things that he can easily set up. After setting up, he's pretty much guaranteed a kill. Sure--things can switch in and check him, but that's almost ALWAYS after he nets a kill. Once the check is in, you simply switch him out and wait for another likely opportunity to switch back in and repeat the process. Mawile will at the very least punch holes in the opponent's team. I don't think Mawile alone will 6-0 sweep a team; however, as long as he lives and is (reasonably) healthy, he will always give you the upper hand.
 
Not surprised nobody has brought Mega Garchomp to this thread yet. Despite being a Dragon Type (weak to that lovely fairy STAB) Mega Garchomp can take out a Mega Mawile at +0, without fearing the +2 Sucker Punch, as Mawile cannot kill with the +2 sucker punch without Stealth Rocks or prior damage.

252 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 330-390 (108.5 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 292-344 (81.5 - 96%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

While I admit Mega Garchomp isn't comparatively as good as some of the other checks/counters mentioned, being only B+ rank, it still handles the SD set rather well, provided there are no substitutes up. Another thing Garchomp needs is for you to sack something, as it cannot afford to take 2 attacks if it wishes to kill Mawile, and a -1 MegaChomp is unable to OHKO a 252/0 or 132/0 spread.
Something to consider is that some of the other checks mentioned can hardly boast of being able to switch in on +2 MegaWile. While they (and Chomp) can obviously switch in on a sucker, the other moves can be rather problematic.

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 1212-1428 (375.2 - 442.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (ouch)
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 382-450 (125.6 - 148%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 304-358 (91 - 107.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 226-266 (62 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

One could argue that you could switch in your Rotom, on say, Fire Fang, but then we get in to the prediction game argument. You could argue you'd predict the Fire Fang and go to Rotom, but I could argue they could predict said switch and use Play Rough, and killing your Rotom. As I've shown here, predictions are a rather poor argument if we're assuming 2 battlers of equal competency are on the field (which I know rarely happens.)

My above calcs do rely on the +2, as the bottom 3 counters can all take the hit from a +0 MegaWile, though they risk dying to Sucker, switches, and hax, among other factors, and I do admit that Rotom, Skarm, Venu, Keldeo, and Chomp can do some form of crippling/killing after they come in, although Keldeo and Chomp will die to Play Rough if they switch in on that.

Honorable mention goes to Heatran, who loses to SubPunch (though according to the usage stats posted earlier in the thread, which I am using as a reference, is only 20%, meaning your Heatran has a large chance of beating out MegaWile if you play your cards right.

If asked for my standing in this Suspect test, I'd say I'm rather neutral. While I do recognize Mawile's offensive prowess, even with its lackluster speed and HP, it still has Checks and Counters that are viable in OU, though it does have the potential to muscle through them after a second Swords Dance.
 
Already at a Mawile suspect test. It's certainly justified. Part of me wouldn't want to see it go, but putting personal bias aside and thinking more about this, I do think it should be banned.

Mawile's Speed is low, yes, but overall it isn't too much of a hindrance. I'd say the fact that it's come to a suspect test proves that it can still function quite well in the meta. Mawile forces switches with its excellent defensive typing and intimidate pre-mega. Then when it forces a switch, it can set up a sub/SD or go right ahead and use a Play Rough or something else on its moveset for the anticipated switch in. The issue in setting this situation is bringing it in safely. Once that's done, Mawile can tear a hole in something. It isn't necessarily going to be sweeping most of the time, but it can still rip apart an opposing team if it's forcing multiple sacrifices in the game to safely allow the check to come in and threaten it out.
The raw power it has combined with its pretty solid movepool makes sure that there are few true counters. As much as I hate to say this, I'm siding with ban for the time being.
 
I find that Mawile's poor speed is a bad argument and here's why:

He doesn't need it.

Mawile threatens so many things that he can easily set up. After setting up, he's pretty much guaranteed a kill. Sure--things can switch in and check him, but that's almost ALWAYS after he nets a kill. Once the check is in, you simply switch him out and wait for another likely opportunity to switch back in and repeat the process. Mawile will at the very least punch holes in the opponent's team. I don't think Mawile alone will 6-0 sweep a team; however, as long as he lives and is (reasonably) healthy, he will always give you the upper hand.
There are multiple pokemon that are guaranteed a kill that's legal in OU right now. And there is nothing wrong with hole punching after setting up. Like you said, it's not going to 6-0 teams, and as much as people love to hype the 50/125/95 defenses, it doesn't have the bulk or any recovery to repeatedly come in and take the powerful hits of this generation. Without wish support, it's switching in and doing something twice maximum.
 
There are multiple pokemon that are guaranteed a kill that's legal in OU right now. And there is nothing wrong with hole punching after setting up. Like you said, it's not going to 6-0 teams, and as much as people love to hype the 50/125/95 defenses, it doesn't have the bulk or any recovery to repeatedly come in and take the powerful hits of this generation. Without wish support, it's switching in and doing something twice maximum.
I do agree that it isn't as bulky as people make it to be, but it's great defensive typing allows it to come in on resisted hits and easily force an opposing mon out, giving it a free turn to potentially wreck your team. The fact that it is able to set up with such ease and then proceed to smash a hole in your team makes it broken in my humble opinion.
 

AM

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In all honesty I haven't seen a good match where somebody got 6-0d unless they were facing a really good stall player or lost to some nonsense that happened from either player. M-Mawile isn't designed to 6-0 teams, that's definitely not what we're trying to insinuate at all in terms of a legitimate argument. We're trying to explain how a single mon has way too much power in various aspects such as strength itself, limitations in team building, etc. and trying to bring up that the combined traits are just too much for OU to realistically handle.
 
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