All of it because of the anime lol
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Sticky Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
- Status
Having weaknesses only to steel and poison, like you said, with heatran or maybe even ferrothorn would be the beginning of a good core balancedMega Altaria + Heatran =
Sure, if you don't count Pikachu following you around in Pokemon Yellow, the "Surfing Pikachu" from the same generation, a signature item that only Pikachu can use, several unique event moves over the years (in fact, it's the Pokemon with the most event-exclusive moves in the game), the fact that Pikachu is the only Pokemon to have its anime cry in XY, etc. Pikachu has been a very privileged Pokemon from the beginning, so I don't think it's strange at all that Pikachu would be the only Pokemon to get these costumes.
It's all theorymon, but I wouldn't consider an offensive DDing Altaria necessarily outclassed by the current crop of DDers. It hardly lacks for power, even with a likely lower raw attack stat, when you consider it has access to STAB Pixilate Double Edge, and STAB Pixilate Facade to mitigate any attempts to burn it. Even if we assume Altaria's only going to gain +20 attack and special attack:
252+ Atk Pixilate Altaria Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 192-226 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Pixilate Altaria Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 217-256 (79.7 - 94.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Pixilate Altaria Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 306-362 (89.4 - 105.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Altaria Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 210-247 (50 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Altaria Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 307-363 (100.9 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Altaria Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 391-462 (96.7 - 114.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Altaria Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 340-402 (104.9 - 124%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Couple that with rocks neutrality, a fantastic defensive typing to make setting up easy, and access to Sing for counters, and the fact that fairy is a supremely spammable type, and I wouldn't say outclassed. And that's assume Altaria only gets +20 attack - an amount which would likely make it extremely bulky.
Mawile has a BST of 380 before mega evolving, while Lopunny has a BST of 480. Just saying!
Max Carvalho
Que os jogos comecem
Am I the only who noticed Mega Altaria is wearing a pirate hat? Imo
I'm so happy about Mega Altaria. It's exactly what I wanted for its Mega Evolution. Dragon/Fairy + Pixilate is an incredible typing, and Altaria has a great movepool on both sides of the spectrum. Altaria was my favorite Pokemon in Gen 3 and I can't wait to use it on my in-game team again. I hope the stone is available pre-Elite Four.
Facade will be an interesting option on Mega Altaria and Salamence DD sets. Any attempts to burn them will give them an incredibly strong STAB move instead.
Facade will be an interesting option on Mega Altaria and Salamence DD sets. Any attempts to burn them will give them an incredibly strong STAB move instead.
Yeah, I did say "(excluding Yellow)"
And there are a lot of pokemon which get different moves from events. I have an Entei with E Speed and Flare blitz.. There are also items like Quick powder, which makes only dittos faster.
It is privileged, but it has never been THIS much privileged if these clothes are actually like rotoms forms..
Pikachu is a regular pokemon, and now there will be a lot of people buying pokemon BECAUSE of pikachu, using pikachu as the main focus on the game (Lol. thats what GF wants, isnt it ? )
The thing is Mega Mawile has Huge Power to make up for it's low BST. I doubt it'd be very viable without that, and Mega Lopunny doesn't have anything to affect it's stats.
That said, I think something can definitely be done with Mega Lopunny, especially considering it gets a fast STAB Hi Jump Kick that hits ghosts. Plus, most every Mega has gotten a significant buff to their offences, and considering they're making Lopunny Fighting type of all things with an offensive ability and giving it a fantastic offensive move...
Hey it's possible, I'm just not gonna get my hopes up yet. Are those clacs based on Alteria's current stats out of curiosity? Also it's dual type is walled by Steels which people like to use as walls already so it's not totally spamable and is competing with things that still just have way higher stats even after +100 But yeah I could totally end up biting my words. I still would like to see it go defensive personally.
The difference is M-Mawile's ability essentially gave it a MORE THAN 205 BST increase upon mega evolving while Loppuny is still only getting the 100 BST increase. but your right. All Mega Pokemon so far have had some level of Viabily in OU. I think M-loppuny is looking mostly like an alternative Meinshao though, a really solid UU option. Perhaps with more speed and less power or something. I'm sure it will be usable but I see it struggling in a meta plagued with Gale Wings and even more Aerilate is all.
Last edited:
Yeah. I'm also really hesitant to write Pokemon off based on theorymon after Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Pinsir. 'Might be good in UU' indeed.
It's assuming base 90 attack, which is 20 points higher than its current 70. Agree that steel could be a problem, although Altaria does also get Earthquake and Fire Blast. My gut feeling at this point is that it'd probably benefit more from coverage than Dragon STAB.
That... happened?
Brb gon laugh.
Talking of Mega Pinsir tho... one thing I am miffed about is that Mega Salamence will seemingly outclass Mega Pinsir.
Yeah, other things have cool stuff, but none have it to the extent Pikachu does. No Pokemon has as many unique event moves as Pikachu. Even for those that do have some cool event moves (like Entei), most of them (or maybe all of them, too lazy to check) don't have a unique item like Pikachu does as well. Ditto has unique items, but has no event moves. It's one thing to have one or two unique aspects (like event moves or unique items), but when you're talking about a Pokemon with the most event-exclusive moves in the game, a unique item that not even its pre-evo and post-evo can use (unlike Thick Club), all the cool Pokemon Yellow stuff, a unique anime cry in-game, and maybe some other unique stuff I'm forgetting all at the same time, it's clear that Pikachu is by far the most privileged Pokemon in the game. These contest forms are just one more extension of that.
Totally forgot about Huge Power... My bad!
Good points. Looking at Lopunny's base stats right now, it definitely has a lot of potential with the 100 BST increase. +50 Attack, +20 in the defenses, and +10 Speed have it at 65/126/104/54/116/115, which sounds pretty good to me and would make Lopunny a fast and bulky hard hitter. I just hope Game Freak doesn't waste points in Special Attack... They didn't with Mawile so there's hope!
Max Carvalho
Que os jogos comecem
If only Loppuny had SD... Anyway there are a bunch of cool options such as SubPunch set, which is incredible due to perfect coverage so Loppuny can hit anything with the combo. Magic Coat can deal with burns. Drain Punch for reliable recovery. Circle throw. GF just gotta give the stats dritibution right, this thing can be quite a good mon. EDIT: Burdspam tho
Woo, another non-Hoenn mega!
M-Altaria got the M-Ampharos effect, and I'm not sure what else they could have done with it actually. It's cool, and Dragon/Fairy is a sick type combo. Nice set of resistances, and it pretty much just keeps Fairy's weaknesses + Ice weakness (which has been reduced from 4x to 2x, not bad!). I hope they go for a more bulky spread with mixed offensive stats. The only real shame of losing Flying typing is it lost spikes and Ground immunity :(. Would have been cool with Filter/a more defensive ability, Pixilate makes it seem it will lean as a more offensive Pokemon instead.
M-Lopunny was completely unexpected. Normal/Fighting + Scrappy is cool and it's design is rather great with the "ripped stockings" and giant braids... It looks like it belongs in a Pokemon x Dead Or Alive crossover. Lopunny has an interesting movepool, hopefully GF don't screw it up with stat distribution. A lot of attack, some in the defenses, some speed. A sp. attack boost would be a waste considering its base 54 SpA... Oh and it gets Agility, but it could use Swords Dance or something.
M-Salamence looked a little wonky at first, but I've started to really like it since they've carried on with the Bagon/Shelgon lore of the desire to fly by making M-Sala a hang glider (even though its wings are backwards). I think the metal case/thingyouhangonto is a nice touch. Aerilate is really nice (and again, fits with the "I believe I can fly!" theme). Going for a bulkier/mixed offensive stat spread might be beneficial as well. Also they definitely need to give it Sky Attack.
I'm actually hoping a lot of Pokemon get some new goodies in their movepools or we get a wide variety of tutor options.
M-Altaria got the M-Ampharos effect, and I'm not sure what else they could have done with it actually. It's cool, and Dragon/Fairy is a sick type combo. Nice set of resistances, and it pretty much just keeps Fairy's weaknesses + Ice weakness (which has been reduced from 4x to 2x, not bad!). I hope they go for a more bulky spread with mixed offensive stats. The only real shame of losing Flying typing is it lost spikes and Ground immunity :(. Would have been cool with Filter/a more defensive ability, Pixilate makes it seem it will lean as a more offensive Pokemon instead.
M-Lopunny was completely unexpected. Normal/Fighting + Scrappy is cool and it's design is rather great with the "ripped stockings" and giant braids... It looks like it belongs in a Pokemon x Dead Or Alive crossover. Lopunny has an interesting movepool, hopefully GF don't screw it up with stat distribution. A lot of attack, some in the defenses, some speed. A sp. attack boost would be a waste considering its base 54 SpA... Oh and it gets Agility, but it could use Swords Dance or something.
M-Salamence looked a little wonky at first, but I've started to really like it since they've carried on with the Bagon/Shelgon lore of the desire to fly by making M-Sala a hang glider (even though its wings are backwards). I think the metal case/thingyouhangonto is a nice touch. Aerilate is really nice (and again, fits with the "I believe I can fly!" theme). Going for a bulkier/mixed offensive stat spread might be beneficial as well. Also they definitely need to give it Sky Attack.
There is always the possibility of tutors. I can only hope GameFreak bring back the Battle Frontier and tutors in ORAS. I hope they bring up some of the BW2 tutor moves like Drain Punch and Knock Off, too.
I'm actually hoping a lot of Pokemon get some new goodies in their movepools or we get a wide variety of tutor options.
I really like the designs for Mega Salamence and Altaria (especially Mega Salamence), although Mega Loppunny looks pretty retarded imo.
Mega Salamence and Altaria seem like they would both be pretty fun to use thanks to DD + Pixilate/Aerilate Double Edge or various special attacking sets they can run. I'll definitely catch and use both in game if their megastones are available during the main game.
I'm also pretty happy for the shiny event Beldum w/ the megastone, as I didn't want to want to wait until post game to use one of my favorite pokemon. It might be a pain in the ass to raise though due to it only learning take down.
(Crossing my fingers for Mega Dragonite / Hydreigon / Goodra)
Mega Salamence and Altaria seem like they would both be pretty fun to use thanks to DD + Pixilate/Aerilate Double Edge or various special attacking sets they can run. I'll definitely catch and use both in game if their megastones are available during the main game.
I'm also pretty happy for the shiny event Beldum w/ the megastone, as I didn't want to want to wait until post game to use one of my favorite pokemon. It might be a pain in the ass to raise though due to it only learning take down.
(Crossing my fingers for Mega Dragonite / Hydreigon / Goodra)
Pikachu getting Icicle Crash before Kyurem. Wow GF, just wow.
I wonder, what will be Mega Salamence's main attack? Return, or Double-Edge? Or even Thrash? Roost can help cope with recoil, but maybe its moveslot could be essential for something else.
Just wondering.
I wonder, what will be Mega Salamence's main attack? Return, or Double-Edge? Or even Thrash? Roost can help cope with recoil, but maybe its moveslot could be essential for something else.
Just wondering.
Yeah just so we're all clear my "pseudo-pessimistic" expectations for Loppuny and Alteria are just based on the trolly nature of GF, the current state of the meta, and things we already can compare them to. Both of them COULD be really good offensively but they're starting at offensive base stats around 70 so they need to be getting like +50 minimum in one offensive stat and then still get the other stats more or less right.
Alteria needs +60 atk and +20 spd before it's up to par with Charizard X and even then it's dealing with worse STAB coverage and no Tough Claw boosts. And it needs even more than that in those two stats to keep up with whatever likely growth Salamance will get in it's atk and spd. I'm not saying it'll be bad but GF has to being trying really hard to keep it from getting outclassed as a DD Dragon Mega and i don't see them dropping all 100 BS in just those 2 stats. In my original post that got this whole discussion going I was just trying to say that we don't know what it's BS spread will be but it would be cooler if it was defensive given it's massive resistance list, unique support moves, and roost. Now if it's offensive boosts are Special oriented then that a totally different story. And if it's getting a boost primarily to bulk then its gonna be cool and unique. If it ends up as a DD Dragon mega I'm really am hard pressed to figure out how it's not outclassed. I think Alteria will be good I just think it stand out more if it goes bulky rather than physical offensive.
Loppuny has all the speed it needs (+10 wouldn't be bad though) so yeah it's possible new stat spread is a lot more likely to end up the way it needs to be for being a unique physically offensive monster. It just depends on how trolly they get with Sp.Atk increases. My expectations for it is just sort of based on the fact that even if it does get it's atk to 120 or 130 it's not gonna be able to life orb or choice or boost so it's still gonna be on the average side for OU damage output. And Fighting types in general are just not as potent in XY as they were in BW because they aren't as necessary for breaking down Steels anymore (lost resistances) and Flying became a way more common attack type. But it does still have perfect neutral coverage, and really really solid speed before any upgrades. So I guess I'll hold off before I say that it definitely won't be a great OU monster. Either way, assuming a moderate atk upgrade I don't see how it won't be really good in UU.
Alteria needs +60 atk and +20 spd before it's up to par with Charizard X and even then it's dealing with worse STAB coverage and no Tough Claw boosts. And it needs even more than that in those two stats to keep up with whatever likely growth Salamance will get in it's atk and spd. I'm not saying it'll be bad but GF has to being trying really hard to keep it from getting outclassed as a DD Dragon Mega and i don't see them dropping all 100 BS in just those 2 stats. In my original post that got this whole discussion going I was just trying to say that we don't know what it's BS spread will be but it would be cooler if it was defensive given it's massive resistance list, unique support moves, and roost. Now if it's offensive boosts are Special oriented then that a totally different story. And if it's getting a boost primarily to bulk then its gonna be cool and unique. If it ends up as a DD Dragon mega I'm really am hard pressed to figure out how it's not outclassed. I think Alteria will be good I just think it stand out more if it goes bulky rather than physical offensive.
Loppuny has all the speed it needs (+10 wouldn't be bad though) so yeah it's possible new stat spread is a lot more likely to end up the way it needs to be for being a unique physically offensive monster. It just depends on how trolly they get with Sp.Atk increases. My expectations for it is just sort of based on the fact that even if it does get it's atk to 120 or 130 it's not gonna be able to life orb or choice or boost so it's still gonna be on the average side for OU damage output. And Fighting types in general are just not as potent in XY as they were in BW because they aren't as necessary for breaking down Steels anymore (lost resistances) and Flying became a way more common attack type. But it does still have perfect neutral coverage, and really really solid speed before any upgrades. So I guess I'll hold off before I say that it definitely won't be a great OU monster. Either way, assuming a moderate atk upgrade I don't see how it won't be really good in UU.
Last edited:
Mega Pinsir gets Double-Edge and Thrash, but people mainly stick with Return, since it's the strongest option that has no drawback. Though Salamence has Roost, unlike Pinsir, so Double-Edge might see some usage.
Looks like a white girl
CALLED IT!!
Actually nobody uses Double Edge on Mega Pinsir because its illegal with Quick Attack and CC. You are right about thrash however.
Maybe it's because Pikachu is the fucking mascot and always has been
We don't know Mega Salamence's stats yet, but we can be pretty sure that Mega Pinsir will still have the advantage of having priority. We'll just have to see, but Salamence is coming from a much higher BST.
Consider the fact that Altaria might have a different niche than DD. Dragon/Fairy is a great typing, and Altaria will probably be able to wall the hell out of Charizard X (if not also Mega Salamance).
Do you guys think that Salamence could get Boomburst at all in ORAS? I was thinking it to be a possibility considering its design and the fact that it learns Hyper Voice. Not exactly overwhelming evidence to assume that would happen, but still. Boomburst Aerilate sounds beyond deadly.
- Status