You do realize that the Knock Off calc is irrelevant, right? The set in the OP doesn't use it, so I don't have to worry about it for this particular set.
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Project Victim of the Week
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
- Start date
Check
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance / Substitute
- Fire Fang
Mawile resists all but one of the moves in the given set, and in return, can simply plow through Heracross with Play Rough or Fire Fang.
Unfortunately, the move it doesn't resist happens to be Close Combat. Even if Intimidate drops Mega Heracross' attack, it's still a guaranteed 2HKO, and after boosting, it becomes a 1HKO. The fact that Heracross outspeeds Mawile, even if it has a positive nature and maximum investment doesn't help matters.
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance / Substitute
- Fire Fang
Mawile resists all but one of the moves in the given set, and in return, can simply plow through Heracross with Play Rough or Fire Fang.
Unfortunately, the move it doesn't resist happens to be Close Combat. Even if Intimidate drops Mega Heracross' attack, it's still a guaranteed 2HKO, and after boosting, it becomes a 1HKO. The fact that Heracross outspeeds Mawile, even if it has a positive nature and maximum investment doesn't help matters.
Mawile:
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 492-582 (158.1 - 187.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Fire Fang vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 238-282 (76.5 - 90.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 73-86 (23.4 - 27.6%) -- 82% chance to 4HKO
M-Heracross:
-1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 154-183 (50.6 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 232-274 (76.3 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 348-411 (114.4 - 135.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 465-547 (152.9 - 179.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 80-95 (26.3 - 31.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 60-70 (19.7 - 23%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 492-582 (158.1 - 187.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Fire Fang vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 238-282 (76.5 - 90.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 73-86 (23.4 - 27.6%) -- 82% chance to 4HKO
M-Heracross:
-1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 154-183 (50.6 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 232-274 (76.3 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 348-411 (114.4 - 135.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 465-547 (152.9 - 179.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 80-95 (26.3 - 31.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 60-70 (19.7 - 23%) -- possible 5HKO
Do you think Jolly would matter? It might help....Check
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance / Substitute
- Fire Fang
Mawile resists all but one of the moves in the given set, and in return, can simply plow through Heracross with Play Rough or Fire Fang.
Unfortunately, the move it doesn't resist happens to be Close Combat. Even if Intimidate drops Mega Heracross' attack, it's still a guaranteed 2HKO, and after boosting, it becomes a 1HKO. The fact that Heracross outspeeds Mawile, even if it has a positive nature and maximum investment doesn't help matters.
Mawile:
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 492-582 (158.1 - 187.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Fire Fang vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 238-282 (76.5 - 90.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 73-86 (23.4 - 27.6%) -- 82% chance to 4HKO
M-Heracross:
-1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 154-183 (50.6 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 232-274 (76.3 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 348-411 (114.4 - 135.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 465-547 (152.9 - 179.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 80-95 (26.3 - 31.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 60-70 (19.7 - 23%) -- possible 5HKO
Check
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Power Herb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Fly
- Stealth Rock/U-turn/Knock Off
- Stone Edge/Rock Slide/Knock Off
Bit of an unconventional lure set, but it works well.
EQ is obvious stab and mandatory
Fly with Power Herb works as a wonderous lure to kill Mega-Hera, Breloom, Chestanaught and do a lot to Mega Venu and Celebi. I use Herb because otherwise they could switch out.
Last 2 slots are based on teams need. Slide/Edge for good coverage move. Stealth Rock if team needs it. Knock off and u-turn as possible utility moves.
Reason max physical bulk is used is because mega-hera is insanely powerful.
This thing resists both stabs and takes only a little from Rock Blast.
+1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 225-270 (58.9 - 70.6%)
-1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 105-125 (27.4 - 32.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Mega Lando can switch in on a rock blast once then switch into a +2 rock blast later almost all the time without stealth rock.
-1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 75-90 (19.6 - 23.5%)
In return:
4 Atk Landorus-T Aerial Ace vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 472-564 (151.7 - 181.3%)
(For some reason fly isn't in the calc)
You have to be careful in your use of fly as using it premature shows your cards and later on mega hera can just switch out.
Stone edge does crap so flying move is needed
4 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 89-105 (28.6 - 33.7%)
Sometimes players will even send mega hera in on lando thinking it can setup on it., but then its in for a rude surprise.
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Power Herb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Fly
- Stealth Rock/U-turn/Knock Off
- Stone Edge/Rock Slide/Knock Off
Bit of an unconventional lure set, but it works well.
EQ is obvious stab and mandatory
Fly with Power Herb works as a wonderous lure to kill Mega-Hera, Breloom, Chestanaught and do a lot to Mega Venu and Celebi. I use Herb because otherwise they could switch out.
Last 2 slots are based on teams need. Slide/Edge for good coverage move. Stealth Rock if team needs it. Knock off and u-turn as possible utility moves.
Reason max physical bulk is used is because mega-hera is insanely powerful.
This thing resists both stabs and takes only a little from Rock Blast.
+1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 225-270 (58.9 - 70.6%)
-1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 105-125 (27.4 - 32.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Mega Lando can switch in on a rock blast once then switch into a +2 rock blast later almost all the time without stealth rock.
-1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 75-90 (19.6 - 23.5%)
In return:
4 Atk Landorus-T Aerial Ace vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 472-564 (151.7 - 181.3%)
(For some reason fly isn't in the calc)
You have to be careful in your use of fly as using it premature shows your cards and later on mega hera can just switch out.
Stone edge does crap so flying move is needed
4 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 89-105 (28.6 - 33.7%)
Sometimes players will even send mega hera in on lando thinking it can setup on it., but then its in for a rude surprise.
Soft Counter: Granbull
I know what you guys are saying right now seriously Granbull? Why not clefable? The answer is intimidate thanks to intimidate Granbull can comfortably take any of mega heras unboosted moves and paralyze it making it much less of a threat. Another benefit of granbull is he has access to stab playrough which does around 70%ish to mega hera and greatly reduces the amount of time mega hera can switch in. If you are feeling ballsy counter can be used to deal with other megas such as zard-x or ttar (not cross as only the last hit counts I forgot about this earlier) and is quite unexpected although earthquake lets it take on other threats in the ou meta. Granbull also can take on quite a few other threats in the OU meta such as mega cham, ddance dragonite, gyara, garchomp, and can check stuff like mega-zard x and mega ttar. Overall I think Granbull may have some potential in the ou meta as physically defensive faries are few and far between. I suggest wish and cleric support for granbull so the blink blobs are great teamates. Any other intimdate user helps granbull out so something like spdef gyara forms a great core.
Granbull @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Play Rough
- Earthquake/counter
- Thunder Wave
- Roar
Basically Granbull can come in take any unboosted move and retaliate with any of its moves or force it to switch against a boosted hera it unforunately can't switch-in but can take a hit and cripple it for the entire match. Considering this thing has similar bulk to landorus-t and godly fairy typing as well as pretty good movepool with access to rock slide, the elemental punches, heal bell, and the ability to at least check most physical boosters is pretty interesting especially for any stall team wondering how to counter mega cham, mega hera, and most physcial attackers!
I know what you guys are saying right now seriously Granbull? Why not clefable? The answer is intimidate thanks to intimidate Granbull can comfortably take any of mega heras unboosted moves and paralyze it making it much less of a threat. Another benefit of granbull is he has access to stab playrough which does around 70%ish to mega hera and greatly reduces the amount of time mega hera can switch in. If you are feeling ballsy counter can be used to deal with other megas such as zard-x or ttar (not cross as only the last hit counts I forgot about this earlier) and is quite unexpected although earthquake lets it take on other threats in the ou meta. Granbull also can take on quite a few other threats in the OU meta such as mega cham, ddance dragonite, gyara, garchomp, and can check stuff like mega-zard x and mega ttar. Overall I think Granbull may have some potential in the ou meta as physically defensive faries are few and far between. I suggest wish and cleric support for granbull so the blink blobs are great teamates. Any other intimdate user helps granbull out so something like spdef gyara forms a great core.
Granbull @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Play Rough
- Earthquake/counter
- Thunder Wave
- Roar
-1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 115-140 (29.9 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 255-305 (66.4 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery alittle iffy but para and playrough can cripple it pretty well.
8 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 204-242 (65.5 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 255-305 (66.4 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery alittle iffy but para and playrough can cripple it pretty well.
8 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 204-242 (65.5 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Basically Granbull can come in take any unboosted move and retaliate with any of its moves or force it to switch against a boosted hera it unforunately can't switch-in but can take a hit and cripple it for the entire match. Considering this thing has similar bulk to landorus-t and godly fairy typing as well as pretty good movepool with access to rock slide, the elemental punches, heal bell, and the ability to at least check most physical boosters is pretty interesting especially for any stall team wondering how to counter mega cham, mega hera, and most physcial attackers!
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Or....you could just use HP Flying.Check
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Power Herb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Fly
- Stealth Rock/U-turn/Knock Off
- Stone Edge/Rock Slide/Knock Off
Bit of an unconventional lure set, but it works well.
EQ is obvious stab and mandatory
Fly with Power Herb works as a wonderous lure to kill Mega-Hera, Breloom, Chestanaught and do a lot to Mega Venu and Celebi. I use Herb because otherwise they could switch out.
Last 2 slots are based on teams need. Slide/Edge for good coverage move. Stealth Rock if team needs it. Knock off and u-turn as possible utility moves.
Reason max physical bulk is used is because mega-hera is insanely powerful.
This thing resists both stabs and takes only a little from Rock Blast.
+1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 225-270 (58.9 - 70.6%)
-1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 105-125 (27.4 - 32.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Mega Lando can switch in on a rock blast once then switch into a +2 rock blast later almost all the time without stealth rock.
-1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 75-90 (19.6 - 23.5%)
In return:
4 Atk Landorus-T Aerial Ace vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 472-564 (151.7 - 181.3%)
(For some reason fly isn't in the calc)
You have to be careful in your use of fly as using it premature shows your cards and later on mega hera can just switch out.
Stone edge does crap so flying move is needed
4 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 89-105 (28.6 - 33.7%)
Sometimes players will even send mega hera in on lando thinking it can setup on it., but then its in for a rude surprise.
A neutral nature is needed for the OHKO after rocks but at least you aren't restricted to using Power Herb.
Fly hits so much harder vs the other things i mentioned and besides hera and loom hp flying is pretty useless.
Check:
Hawlucha @ Power Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sky Attack
- Acrobatics
- High Jump Kick
- Swords Dance
Can switch in on any of Hera's moves (although it struggles to tank Rock Blast if SR is up), and threatens with Sky Attack/Acrobatics. It can also opt to set up a SD since Hera is easily forced out.
Hawlucha @ Power Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sky Attack
- Acrobatics
- High Jump Kick
- Swords Dance
Can switch in on any of Hera's moves (although it struggles to tank Rock Blast if SR is up), and threatens with Sky Attack/Acrobatics. It can also opt to set up a SD since Hera is easily forced out.
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hawlucha: 90-110 (30.3 - 37%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hawlucha: 177-209 (59.5 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hawlucha: 250-295 (84.1 - 99.3%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 280-336 (90 - 108%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock << that's right, if you have rocks up you don't even have to use up your power herb to OHKO
252+ Atk Hawlucha Sky Attack vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 708-832 (227.6 - 267.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Hawlucha Sky Attack vs. -1 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 1056-1248 (339.5 - 401.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO << WOW DOMMAGE
^if you manage to come in on close combat lol
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hawlucha: 177-209 (59.5 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hawlucha: 250-295 (84.1 - 99.3%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 280-336 (90 - 108%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock << that's right, if you have rocks up you don't even have to use up your power herb to OHKO
252+ Atk Hawlucha Sky Attack vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 708-832 (227.6 - 267.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Hawlucha Sky Attack vs. -1 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 1056-1248 (339.5 - 401.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO << WOW DOMMAGE
^if you manage to come in on close combat lol
Yes Fly hits harder, but against the stuff you mentioned HP Flying is more than adequate considering each mon has a quad weakness to flying anyway.
Also, HP Flying is no more useless than Fly on Lando. The only notable thing not already hit harder by QuakeEdge is like Venusaur, which doesn't like EQs much anyway.
I have to agree with Maniaclyrasist on this one. Fly and HP Flying are both subpar moves on Landorus anyway, but without them it can't beat Heracross. However, if I had to pick, I'd choose the one that allows me to a) hold leftovers, and b) use more than once. If you use Power Herb Fly, and Hera switches, the lure failed 100%. However, if it switches out of HP Flying, you'll always be able to use it later on.
Hm I guess 105 SPA is pretty good, any set recommondation either of you have?
To get the most defensive utility, while still beating Hera, I personally would use your spread, with lefties > power herb, hp fly > fly, sr in the 3rd slot, and knock off in the 4th one.
Sadly impish doesn't cut it and even neutral doesn't either
0 SpA Landorus-T Hidden Power Flying vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Heracross: 264-312 (87.4 - 103.3%)
Need quite heavy investment to get ko vs 252 hp Mega Hera
Even scarier is
252+ SpA Landorus-T Hidden Power Flying vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Heracross: 360-424 (98.9 - 116.4%)
Even with max SPA I can't guarantee ko. Hence why i'm hesitant on hp fly.
Maybe something like Relaxed 188?
188 SpA Landorus-T Hidden Power Flying vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Mega Heracross: 312-372 (100.3 - 119.6%)
Kit Kasai
Love colored magic
It's a check, I don't think you need to ohko it. 2hko is fine. I'd say run 252 hp, enough speed to outspeed it, and the rest in def.
Problem is fast Mega Hera where I need quite a bit of speed investment to out speed. I need minimum 128 spe evs to out speed adamant 252 mega hera. Thats not even worrying about jolly where I would have to go 224. I can outspeed this variant, but faster versions are relatively common.
Also I need the bulk as
+1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 36+ Def Landorus-T: 280-335 (73.2 - 87.6%)
If I can't ohko I run the risk of getting crit on and dying.
If you're really that worried about getting the OHKO on 252hp Hera then you can run Expert Belt and 12 spAtk evs. It always one shots him if SR is up or it's taken any previous damage.
Personally, i think it's a bit much. I'd rather run lefties, av etc so Lando has more utility throughout the match.....but it gets the job done.
Personally, i think it's a bit much. I'd rather run lefties, av etc so Lando has more utility throughout the match.....but it gets the job done.
Thing is lefties doesn't always get the job done as calc showed. Fast Mega Hera can 2hko me before i can 2hko. then if lando-T is my only check, then i'm getting sweeped.
Week 7:
Thanks so much for the 10 checks and 4 counters to Mega Heracross! The only bad part of this is having to eliminate some solid entries. So, as always, feel free to PM me if you're wondering why your/a entry wasn't chosen. Again, by recommendation of Lil YoshiXD, and with support from three other members who frequent this thread, the next victim will be based on Pokemon whose effectiveness in OU was limited by Aegislash. The last of these Pokemon is Mega Pinsir!
Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Quick Attack
- Frustration
- Close Combat
Mega Pinsir is a very scary and often underrated Pokemon. Fighting + Flying coverage is amazing in a now Aegi-less metagame; both its Frustration and Close Combat are incredibly powerful, especially after a Swords Dance. Unlike Heracross, Pinsir has good Speed and Priority, which allow it to beat faster foes. Since Aegi's ban, Pokemon, that used to beat it, like defensive Tyranitar, no longer can, because of its ability to use Close Combat. It's gotten more effective lately, but it certainly has its checks and counters! Good luck!
Also, don't forget to submit checks to Kyurem-B and Greninja, who are still missing some. You can also submit some to Mawile, but its state in OU is kinda in limbo.
Thanks so much for the 10 checks and 4 counters to Mega Heracross! The only bad part of this is having to eliminate some solid entries. So, as always, feel free to PM me if you're wondering why your/a entry wasn't chosen. Again, by recommendation of Lil YoshiXD, and with support from three other members who frequent this thread, the next victim will be based on Pokemon whose effectiveness in OU was limited by Aegislash. The last of these Pokemon is Mega Pinsir!
Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Quick Attack
- Frustration
- Close Combat
Mega Pinsir is a very scary and often underrated Pokemon. Fighting + Flying coverage is amazing in a now Aegi-less metagame; both its Frustration and Close Combat are incredibly powerful, especially after a Swords Dance. Unlike Heracross, Pinsir has good Speed and Priority, which allow it to beat faster foes. Since Aegi's ban, Pokemon, that used to beat it, like defensive Tyranitar, no longer can, because of its ability to use Close Combat. It's gotten more effective lately, but it certainly has its checks and counters! Good luck!
Also, don't forget to submit checks to Kyurem-B and Greninja, who are still missing some. You can also submit some to Mawile, but its state in OU is kinda in limbo.
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Mega-Pinsir is a beast. Excellent coverage and STAB+Aerilate priority makes a lot of Pokemon cry. However, there are certainly ways to beat it. Sure, you have your checks like Talonflame, but a hard counter is tough to find. Luckily, there's at least one rock solid candidate.
Presenting..........RHYPERIOR.
Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock (OR SHOULD I SAY ROCK SOLID? Oh wait. I did)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Rock Blast/Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch/Fire Punch/????
Ability and Item are pretty self-explanatory (Nature is trickier: Relaxed might be debatable but you're not outspeeding much anyways so I went for it because you want to eke out every bit of defenses you). EV Spread is for maximum checking potential, for as you'll see, it turns some 2HKO's into 3HKO's and honestly base 140 Attack uninvested is still pretty damn strong, and Rhyperior's coverage is good enough given his role here.
Moveset: The most important move(s) on this set are the first two options. Which one to use? Rock Blast or Stone Edge is your preference: Rock Blast for breaking subs in general and better accuracy, Stone Edge is for....power? Note: Even Rock Blast with 2 hits does a minimum of 91% to Mega-Pinsir, at which point any residual damage will kill it. Stealth Rocks is great on Rhyperior simply because you can easily set it up if you simply want to force Mega-Pinsir to switch (which as you'll see, you can generally do). Earthquake is STAB and while it doesn't hit Mega-Pinsir, it hits Regular Pinsir decently (although there's almost no situation where that would happen) and is good coverage at large. Last move is pretty much your choice. Ice Punch hits Gliscor really hard as well as Garchomp (you can thus beat both) while Fire Punch hits Ferro/Scizor. Both do 46-57% to Pinsir on the Switch, so after SR you have a very real chance of OHKO'ing Mega-Pinsir. Again, with no attack investment whatsoever.
In addition to being a check/counter to most versions of Charizard X, Rhyperior also conveniently stops Mega Pinsir even after a Swords Dance boost.
Let's throw some numbers and I'll show you what I mean.
Adamant (which you almost never see, but it's for sake of argument) Mega Pinsir's +0 Earthquake does a max of 33.4% against this beast (with the given EV spread), while Close Combat has a 30% chance only to 3HKO. That's insane. Also, without the 252 Defense EVs (if you wanted attack EV, +0 Earthquake is a guaranteed 2HKO while CC does nearly 50%. Not worth it, especially considering Rhyperior will probably be soaking up residual damage and stuff.
But let's say this Adamant Pinsir has boosted to +2. That stuff happens sometimes, so can Rhyperior withstand this? Hell yea.
At +2, Adamant Pinsir's Quick Attack into Close Combat does roughly 97% of your health at max-damage roll values, so assuming no rocks and your Rhyperior is healthy, you will 100% of the time be able to beat Mega-Pinsir assuming you switch into Quick Attack. Sadly, Rhyperior can't survive switching into a Close Combat or Earthquake, but with some nice predictions, you can still probably force this to happen. Ideally, you'd have Wish support for Rhyperior because lefties recovery is good but not ideal and Rhyperior HATES status (Toxic really hampers his ability to tank and Burns make it such that he's less of a counter). Note that even while burned and with 0Atk EVs Rhyperior still has a 50% chance to OHKO with Stone Edge and a 50% chance to 2HKO with 2 hits of Rock Blast. Ergo, even when burned, still a check to (unboosted) Mega-Pinsir.
As most Mega-Pinsirs will try and switch out against a Rhyperior, use that turn to set up rocks to make Mega-Pinsir cry more. At the very least, you can force a switch into a Defogger/Spinner and gain a tempo advantage if you predict that.
Presenting..........RHYPERIOR.
Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock (OR SHOULD I SAY ROCK SOLID? Oh wait. I did)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Rock Blast/Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch/Fire Punch/????
Ability and Item are pretty self-explanatory (Nature is trickier: Relaxed might be debatable but you're not outspeeding much anyways so I went for it because you want to eke out every bit of defenses you). EV Spread is for maximum checking potential, for as you'll see, it turns some 2HKO's into 3HKO's and honestly base 140 Attack uninvested is still pretty damn strong, and Rhyperior's coverage is good enough given his role here.
Moveset: The most important move(s) on this set are the first two options. Which one to use? Rock Blast or Stone Edge is your preference: Rock Blast for breaking subs in general and better accuracy, Stone Edge is for....power? Note: Even Rock Blast with 2 hits does a minimum of 91% to Mega-Pinsir, at which point any residual damage will kill it. Stealth Rocks is great on Rhyperior simply because you can easily set it up if you simply want to force Mega-Pinsir to switch (which as you'll see, you can generally do). Earthquake is STAB and while it doesn't hit Mega-Pinsir, it hits Regular Pinsir decently (although there's almost no situation where that would happen) and is good coverage at large. Last move is pretty much your choice. Ice Punch hits Gliscor really hard as well as Garchomp (you can thus beat both) while Fire Punch hits Ferro/Scizor. Both do 46-57% to Pinsir on the Switch, so after SR you have a very real chance of OHKO'ing Mega-Pinsir. Again, with no attack investment whatsoever.
In addition to being a check/counter to most versions of Charizard X, Rhyperior also conveniently stops Mega Pinsir even after a Swords Dance boost.
Let's throw some numbers and I'll show you what I mean.
Adamant (which you almost never see, but it's for sake of argument) Mega Pinsir's +0 Earthquake does a max of 33.4% against this beast (with the given EV spread), while Close Combat has a 30% chance only to 3HKO. That's insane. Also, without the 252 Defense EVs (if you wanted attack EV, +0 Earthquake is a guaranteed 2HKO while CC does nearly 50%. Not worth it, especially considering Rhyperior will probably be soaking up residual damage and stuff.
But let's say this Adamant Pinsir has boosted to +2. That stuff happens sometimes, so can Rhyperior withstand this? Hell yea.
At +2, Adamant Pinsir's Quick Attack into Close Combat does roughly 97% of your health at max-damage roll values, so assuming no rocks and your Rhyperior is healthy, you will 100% of the time be able to beat Mega-Pinsir assuming you switch into Quick Attack. Sadly, Rhyperior can't survive switching into a Close Combat or Earthquake, but with some nice predictions, you can still probably force this to happen. Ideally, you'd have Wish support for Rhyperior because lefties recovery is good but not ideal and Rhyperior HATES status (Toxic really hampers his ability to tank and Burns make it such that he's less of a counter). Note that even while burned and with 0Atk EVs Rhyperior still has a 50% chance to OHKO with Stone Edge and a 50% chance to 2HKO with 2 hits of Rock Blast. Ergo, even when burned, still a check to (unboosted) Mega-Pinsir.
As most Mega-Pinsirs will try and switch out against a Rhyperior, use that turn to set up rocks to make Mega-Pinsir cry more. At the very least, you can force a switch into a Defogger/Spinner and gain a tempo advantage if you predict that.
Counter
Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 144 Def / 60 SpD / 56 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Roost
- Rock Slide
- Wing Attack
- Ice Fang
First the calcs to prove it works:
252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 144 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 146-172 (40.2 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 248 HP / 144 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 120-142 (33 - 39.1%) -- 15.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
The only +2 calc I need is Quick Attack, because Aerodactyl is speed creeping Pinsir even on its Mega Turn.
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 248 HP / 144 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 94-111 (25.8 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Which of course does nothing much.
I don't think I need to show you that Mega Aerodactyl OHKOs back. Though it needs attack investment to OHKO with Wing Attack / Aerial Ace, and even then the best it gets is a 62.5% chance to OHKO from full.
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 248 HP / 144 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 120-142 (33 - 39.1%) -- 15.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
The only +2 calc I need is Quick Attack, because Aerodactyl is speed creeping Pinsir even on its Mega Turn.
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 248 HP / 144 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 94-111 (25.8 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Which of course does nothing much.
I don't think I need to show you that Mega Aerodactyl OHKOs back. Though it needs attack investment to OHKO with Wing Attack / Aerial Ace, and even then the best it gets is a 62.5% chance to OHKO from full.
Defensive Mega Aerodactyl is a little less niche than it looks. First, it's just handy to have speed on a stall team, Mega Aerodactyl can stop your team from being effortlessly 6-0'd by wall breakers like Mega Heracross or Landorus. Though it does backfire occasionally with Roost, which is a bit irritating, but manageable.
Mega Aerodactyl is the best overall bird spam counter in the game, so basically, it doesn't really care much if Pinsir is paired with Talonflame or Staraptor, it counters them effortlessly too. Resists all their stabs and standard coverage moves, and can OHKO back with Rock Slide.
If you're wondering about some other uses Mega Aerodactyl has on a defensive team, it's a nice counter to Charizard Y and Landorus, and it can hold up somewhat vs Charizard X (though it kinda needs Stone Edge or Rock Tomb to hold up well aginst Charizard X). That's what the SDef EVs are for; Mega Aerodactyl avoids the 2HKO from Landorus' Focus Blast, Timid Charizard Y's SolarBeam and Fire Blast (even though it can outspeed and OHKO, it's still nice to avoid 2HKOs because Roost isn't a completely safe move).
Also keep in mind that all Mega Aerodactyl really uses when countering Mega Pinsir is its Rock STAB and Roost. Offensive Mega Aerodactyl still is a one time counter, possibly more if it runs Roost. The other moves are totally up to you, and you can also throw more EVs in Attack or Speed as you wish.
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whatever filler move in Earthquake or Close Combat Mega Pinsir hav, this thing will always be a Counter. I introduce: Zapdos
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 192 Def / 68 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Defog
- Roost
Good bulk, resist Aerilate Return hard is a point, but resist Close Combat and immune Earthquake gives this beast another advantage than other mons. This thing is a counter because althought it takes quarter of health when switch into SR, and can take only one +2 Return when full health, it has Roost which is an awesome recovery move. The key to use Zapdos is to keep it in good health and switch this mon in immediately in turn Pinsir evolves. If Pinsir setups and attacks:
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 248 HP / 192+ Def Zapdos: 209-246 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.
if it tries to attack without a boost:
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 248 HP / 192+ Def Zapdos: 105-123 (27.4 - 32.1%) -- 61.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (plz scratch me if you can lol)
68 Spatk to make sure that a Thunderbolt guarantee a KO on Mega Pinsir :
68 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 272-324 (100.3 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
maybe Pinsir will hav Stone Edge in the future, but who knows? And the set Aragorn didn't hav so Zapdos is a great counter
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 192 Def / 68 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Defog
- Roost
Good bulk, resist Aerilate Return hard is a point, but resist Close Combat and immune Earthquake gives this beast another advantage than other mons. This thing is a counter because althought it takes quarter of health when switch into SR, and can take only one +2 Return when full health, it has Roost which is an awesome recovery move. The key to use Zapdos is to keep it in good health and switch this mon in immediately in turn Pinsir evolves. If Pinsir setups and attacks:
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 248 HP / 192+ Def Zapdos: 209-246 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.
if it tries to attack without a boost:
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 248 HP / 192+ Def Zapdos: 105-123 (27.4 - 32.1%) -- 61.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (plz scratch me if you can lol)
68 Spatk to make sure that a Thunderbolt guarantee a KO on Mega Pinsir :
68 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 272-324 (100.3 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
maybe Pinsir will hav Stone Edge in the future, but who knows? And the set Aragorn didn't hav so Zapdos is a great counter
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CHECK
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
Rotom-W will always be an excellent check to Mega Pinsir. It avoids the 3HKO from +0 Return and can tank a +2 Return, even with Stealth Rock, as long as Rotom-W has at least 80% health. It's immune to Earthquake and therefore resists all of Mega Pinsir's attacks. It can also Will-O-Wisp or Volt Switch in return, crippling Pinsir for the rest of the match. Rotom-W also is only 2HKOed by +2 Close Combat.
+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 210-248 (69.3 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 174-206 (57.4 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 87-103 (28.7 - 33.9%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 174-206 (64.2 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
Rotom-W will always be an excellent check to Mega Pinsir. It avoids the 3HKO from +0 Return and can tank a +2 Return, even with Stealth Rock, as long as Rotom-W has at least 80% health. It's immune to Earthquake and therefore resists all of Mega Pinsir's attacks. It can also Will-O-Wisp or Volt Switch in return, crippling Pinsir for the rest of the match. Rotom-W also is only 2HKOed by +2 Close Combat.
+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 210-248 (69.3 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 174-206 (57.4 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 87-103 (28.7 - 33.9%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 174-206 (64.2 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Hard Check
Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split / Toxic Spikes
- Shadow Ball / Night Shade
- Toxic Spikes / Haze
The combination of Mummy and burns neuters and/or eliminates Mega Pinsir's ability and its massive Attack stat, which are its greatest assets. If it loses Aerilate, then it will either be forced to used Earthquake, which will do very small amounts of damage, even if Pinsir is healthy, or, if it runs Close Combat instead, it won't be able to do anything to it. Cofagrigus is then free to set up Toxic Spikes or wear it down with Pain Split and Shadow Ball.
The one thing that prevents Cofagrigus from being a counter is that it can't switch into a boosted Frustration or Return, which is not helped by the fact that Pinsir runs circles around it.
Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split / Toxic Spikes
- Shadow Ball / Night Shade
- Toxic Spikes / Haze
The combination of Mummy and burns neuters and/or eliminates Mega Pinsir's ability and its massive Attack stat, which are its greatest assets. If it loses Aerilate, then it will either be forced to used Earthquake, which will do very small amounts of damage, even if Pinsir is healthy, or, if it runs Close Combat instead, it won't be able to do anything to it. Cofagrigus is then free to set up Toxic Spikes or wear it down with Pain Split and Shadow Ball.
The one thing that prevents Cofagrigus from being a counter is that it can't switch into a boosted Frustration or Return, which is not helped by the fact that Pinsir runs circles around it.
Mega Pinsir:
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 54-64 (16.8 - 20%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Pinsir Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 69-82 (21.5 - 25.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 138-163 (43.1 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 274-324 (85.6 - 101.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+6 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 214-253 (66.8 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252 Atk Aerilate burned Mega Pinsir Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 273-322 (85.3 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Aerilate burned Mega Pinsir Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 69-81 (21.5 - 25.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Aerilate burned Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 27-32 (8.4 - 10%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Cofagrigus:
0 SpA Cofagrigus Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 91-108 (33.5 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Cofagrigus Night Shade vs. 0 HP Mega Pinsir: 100-100 (36.9 - 36.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 54-64 (16.8 - 20%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Pinsir Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 69-82 (21.5 - 25.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 138-163 (43.1 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 274-324 (85.6 - 101.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+6 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 214-253 (66.8 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252 Atk Aerilate burned Mega Pinsir Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 273-322 (85.3 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Aerilate burned Mega Pinsir Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 69-81 (21.5 - 25.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Aerilate burned Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 27-32 (8.4 - 10%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Cofagrigus:
0 SpA Cofagrigus Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 91-108 (33.5 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Cofagrigus Night Shade vs. 0 HP Mega Pinsir: 100-100 (36.9 - 36.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage
Hard Check
Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Earthquake
Tyranitar resists Mega Pinsir's main STAB which is Aerilate Return, and can often come in on a predicted Quick Attack or Return, outspeed thanks to the Choice Scarf, and KO with Stone Edge. The only thing Pinsir can do is predict the incoming Tyranitar and hit with Earthquake or Close Combat since its probably getting more popular now thanks to Aegislash ban. It can also continuously pressure Mega Pinsir into not setting up as long as it is alive.
linkinparkrules Zapdos is a counter, not a hard check.
Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Earthquake
Tyranitar resists Mega Pinsir's main STAB which is Aerilate Return, and can often come in on a predicted Quick Attack or Return, outspeed thanks to the Choice Scarf, and KO with Stone Edge. The only thing Pinsir can do is predict the incoming Tyranitar and hit with Earthquake or Close Combat since its probably getting more popular now thanks to Aegislash ban. It can also continuously pressure Mega Pinsir into not setting up as long as it is alive.
linkinparkrules Zapdos is a counter, not a hard check.