Resource XY NU Viability Ranking

[Celever]

I would like to see Flappy bird Pelipper move up to C+ or even B-.

Pelipper @ Leftovers
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Hurricane/Knock Off
- Roost
- Defog

I'm probably going to be made fun of because of this, but hear me out. There's actually a legitimate reason to use Pelipper: Defog. Shiftry is gone, and hazard spammers like Crustle, Qwilfish and Ferroseed are running rampant in the tier. There's only a few other good Defoggers in the tier (Vullaby, Togetic, Swanna) and like two usable spinners (Sandslash and Armaldo). Spinning kinda sucks because they can't beat Spiritomb who's everywhere, and either way these spinners are pretty bad in general.

Armaldo is bad. Do not use Armaldo. Cryogonal is by far the best spinner in the tier, and Torkoal is the best spinner for phazing or stall teams. Sandslash is probably best for balanced teams. Armaldo just shouldn't be used lol.

As for Defoggers, there's Swanna who's very similar to Pelipper except it trades bulk for speed and power. While that can be useful, Pelippers bulk allows it to check things like Klinklang without Wild Charge and come in easier on stuff like Gurdurr and Hariyama. Pelipper is also great at absorbing Knock Off, unlike Vullaby and Togetic who really hate losing their Eviolite. And Swanna without Life Orb is pretty much a worse Pelipper, not to mention Knock Off does over half so you have to either Defog, Roost up but you also want to keep offensive pressure and attack because that's the whole point of using Swanna over Pelipper. All of that is less of an issue for Pelipper.

All Klinklang run Wind Charge, lol. And Swanna actually has power against things like Gurdurr and Hariyama, and is one of the best checks or counters I've found for Gurdurr in the tier. I think you are underestimating how good Pelipper actually is against these Fighting-Type Pokémon, since it doesn't OHKO them. While this may not matter as it is quite bulky, the unreliability of Hurricane and the fact that pretty much every Fighting-Type can learn Thunder Punch to counter the thing leaves it some to be desired as a counter. Also the rest of this argument is fairly unneeded. You wouldn't use Pelipper on an offensive team just as you wouldn't use Swanna on a defensive team; they go two-in-two, as one outclasses the other depending on the team archetype. The Knock Off argument also doesn't matter that much because the point of having these Pokémon on your team is getting rid of hazards for the rest of your Pokémon to switch in all the time (besides Swanna, who would be on an offensive team and would also require switching often). Togetic and Vullaby resist Knock Off and don't take too much damage from it, but more importantly it gives them a chance to use Defog. Plus, Swanna isn't even reliant on Life Orb. I pack a Damp Rock variant on my main team and it still does more than enough damage lol.

I also noticed how you deigned to mention Drifblim in this paragraph, who is Pelipper's biggest competition and is the highest ranked Defogger in NU right now. Drifblim does fit best on balanced teams (which is a team archetype Pelipper also fits well on) but trades sheer bulk for utility. But Drifblim also has good bulk. Drifblim is B-, but is better than Pelipper except for on fully defensive teams where Togetic or Vullaby probably outclass this pelican. Not to say that Pelipper doesn't fit on certain teams and can't perform well, I'm just saying that it gets a little bit lost in all of the other defoggers in the tier.

Pelipper also has a Water-typing allowing it to beat stuff like Rhydon and Crustle better than the other two bulky birds (Vullaby and Togetic), and it has good offensive presence with Scald and Hurricane (the other two have like no offensive presence whatsoever).

You know who also beat Rhydon and Crustle? Swanna and Drifblim. Drifblim burns them pretty much nullifying them for the rest of the match outside of the fairly rare clerics in the tier. Swanna has much more offensive presence than Pelipper, something which you acknowledged above.

There's probably people going to say that Swanna is better than Pelipper, but Pelipper does have to advantage of being able to switch in on stuff while Swanna gets wrecked by anything really because its so frail. And that's very important for a support mon, especially a Defogger that needs to come in repeatedly to keep hazards of the field for the whole duration of the game. Both mons have an excellent defensive typing (look at Gyarados for example) as well as Roost, but only Pelipper has the stats to make good use out of it. Pelipper fulfills the support role better, while Swanna is better offensively. It's not really fair to compare the two.

Actually, from experience, Swanna is somewhat bulky just by virtue of typing. You just have to use it well, but the reward is higher than Pelipper because it dishes out damage faster. Also, you mention here that being able to switch is important to a support Pokémon. I don't see how the set you listed above is support. It looks more like an offensive defogger set to me. If you use Knock Off is could be classified as Support I guess, but that set looks quite poor in practice because Surf doesn't pack enough power coming off of a Pelipper, and Knock Off packs no power coming off of a Pelipper, lol. Drifblim is a support or utility Pokémon, packing status moves, Haze/Clear Smog, Destiny Bond and the like, and if you want a Defog Support Pokémon you should go for Drifblim. If you want a defensive defogger for a stall team you should go for Togetic or Vullaby. If you want an offensive defogger you should go for Swanna. If you are on a bulky offense team you should go for either Drifblim or Pelipper, and the same goes for balance. But Drifblim is better than Pelipper about 70% of the time... That's why Drifblim is two ranks higher than Pelipper right now, and that's why it should stay that way lol.

Also it seems quite apparent to me that you've never used a Swanna. I agree with you that it is silly comparing the two, but you are seriously down talking it. If I could have my way I would put Swanna a rank above Pelipper, because after using both I find Swanna to be the better Water/Flying Defogger, but I can see both arguments and I think they should be in the same rank.

I guess there's Mantine and Lumineon, but they don't have reliable recovery. Lumineon is awful besides Defog, while Mantine has much more special bulk but lacks recovery besides Rest-Talk which makes Pelipper the better choice overall. Pelipper for S C+/B-.

Mentioning Lumineon is pointless, no one would have brought it up. Mantine is better for bulky offensive defogging because it's more powerful, and not having reliable recovery isn't very detrimental on a bulky offense team. Because of Roost, Pelipper is the best Water/Flying Defogger for stall or mostly defensive teams, I will give you that. For bulky offense and balance it suffers harsh competition from Mantine and Drifblim, but mainly Drifblim for balance and Mantine for bulky offense. For offensive teams it is almost completely outclassed by Swanna and LO Swift Swim variants of Mantine. BTW, please don't put Mantine on the same level as Lumineon again, as Mantine is better than Armaldo, which you listed above as being one of the best spinners in the tier.

Basically, Pelipper shouldn't move up. This isn't because it is a bad Pokémon, per se, it is because it has difficult standing out in this tier. It is at least partially outclassed at almost all teams it tries to fit on, and on the ones where it is not outclassed it faces stiff competition. The main times I can see Pelipper being used are to check Knock Off, honestly. But then again, Pelipper is pretty darn weak as is since most Knock Off users are bulky. You'd be better off taking the hit with an offensive Pokémon and KO'ing the Knock Off user back. Pelipper can be a good Pokémon, but it has difficult standing out, which is why it is a good fit for C rank.

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Yellow Cheese just pointed out that Pelipper is in C+ rank now. Nominating Pelipper for C rank for the reasoning listed above.

 

[Quite Quiet]

Yellow Cheese just pointed out that Drifblim is in C+ rank now. Nominating Drifblim for C rank for the reasoning listed above.

Drifblim already got moved to B-, so you either mean Pelipper to C or Drifblim to B, but Drifblim sure isn't a C rank mon.

Also, Armaldo is usable on some rain teams which can't use Swanna for some reason, so there's a reason to use it. Not a lot, but there are reasons.

 

[Celever]

Drifblim already got moved to B-, so you either mean Pelipper to C or Drifblim to B, but Drifblim sure isn't a C rank mon.

Also, Armaldo is usable on some rain teams which can't use Swanna for some reason, so there's a reason to use it. Not a lot, but there are reasons.

Oh, good catch. I was the one who nominated Drifblim into B-, lol. I did mean Pelipper :s

 

[Shuckleking87]

Everything you said

I'll keep this short
1. Mostly agree with LiarLiarPantsonFire
2. Armaldo really isnt "that" bad. Most people use it wrong imo. Having a max attack max speed with life orb, rapid spin, knock off, stone edge and whatever as the last move (Aqua tail, eq) is a very good poke and is really the only reliable rapid spinner that gets past all ghosts in the tier (max attack life orb sandslash is not guarantee to 2hko max defense spiritomb with eq, armaldo is with stone edge). i guess it can also be used on rain teams ( I wouldn't use it though). Armaldo in C is a good ranking for it.
3. I don't think many klinklang run wild charge, as the normal set is sub, shift gear, gear grind and return. Return allows you to hit waters while also hitting seismitoad.
4. Who runs thunderpunch for pelliper anything lol
5. Pelipper is alot better poke vs fightings in general than swanna imo, as if hurricane misses for swanna, you will die to a cc+bullet punch from hariyama or die to knock off + mach punch/drain punch if you predict a roost. Pelipper can roost and still handle these threats even if it misses a hurricane.
6. Pelipper gains a huge advantage over swanna not only with knock off, but with u-turn. Can easily defog+ uturn to get major advantage.
7. I've used pelipper on a more offensive team and it works really well with aforementioned defog + u-turn. Swanna cannot be on defensive teams.
8. Actually archeops is highest ranked "defogger" but I guess that's besides the point. Drifblim is C+ I assume primarily because of (weakness policy) unburden set moreso than defogging but probably shouldnt be that high anyways. Drifblim is not a reliable defogger because it really doesnt threaten many hazard users besides burn, but even then, stealth rock pokes will still hit hard with their stab rock moves. pelipper can kill alot of or do massive damage with scald. Drifblim is also weak to knockoff which really isnt that great either (unless you utilize unburden, but for defogger, aftermath > unburden). Swanna accomplishes same stuff as pelipper, but has to decide to defog and be killed by sr user or kill the sr user and be revenged killed. Pelipper has enough bulk to do both.
9. Swanna ain't bulky
252+ Atk Choice Band Shuckle Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Swanna: 198-240 (68 - 82.4%) -- approx. 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Shuckle Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 96-126 (29.6 - 38.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
10. Lumineon sucks yes
11. Don't really think pelipper is outclassed imo as it's the best physically defensive hazard removing poke in tier (best special defensive poke is cryogonal)
But yeah, agree with Pelipper to B- and Drifblim to C as drifblim really doesnt do anything that any defogger can do (lol block rapid spin), or a special attacking set like mismagius can.

 

[Raseri]

updated the first post cause zeb is a bum :)

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Kind of a random nomination, but I feel like Regice doesn't get the credit it deserves.

This pokemon should not be in D rank. Yes it's an Ice-type which is flatout awful defensively, it's weak to SR and common attacking types like Fighting and Fire. It's also terribly slow meaning it has no way to avoid getting hit by said attacks. However, it's also a pokemon with base 80/100/200 defenses, base 100 SpAtk, a great offensive typing and excellent coverage should you run an offensive set. There's actually a few ways you can play Regice: RestTalk with BoltBeam coverage, Rock Polish with Life Orb and 3 attacks and ChestoRest with T-Wave (smogon archive has it but probably not a great set).

RestTalk pretty much hard walls any special attacker without even needing to invest any EV's in SpDef. This means you can max out your SpAtk and hit pretty damn hard for a wall. Charge Beam is viable too: if you get the boost you can start firing off STAB Ice Beams from 492 SpAtk with a pokemon that's supposed to be just a wall. It has flawless coverage barring Lanturn and is the bulkiest special wall out there. Also unlike for example Cryogonal, Regice has good physical bulk so it can tank a physical hit when needed. I personally like my RestTalk set specially defensive the best though, because lol bulk:

252 SpA Typhlosion Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Regice: 138-164 (37.9 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (that's STAB, 110 BP and SE just saying)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Regice in Rain: 177-208 (48.6 - 57.1%) -- 44.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (with Hydro Miss accuracy those are pretty good odds)

Then the offensive set. Rock Polish makes you faster than the entire unscarfed tier barring none (Timid Accelgor lol). That's pretty good and priority isn't even that big of a deal barring Hariyama and Gurdurr (which you should have something for if you run this set), as Regice has decent natural bulk. Its coverage is insane: as if STAB Ice Beam and Thunderbolt wasn't enough, you now have Fighting coverage with Focus Blast too for Steel/Rock/Normal types. It's an excellent lategame cleaner imo because there's not many special walls that can avoid getting 2HKO'd by this things coverage moves.

I'd say it's at least C rank, just because it does a really good job walling special attackers (stuff like Sceptile, Accelgor, Mesprit barring CM sets, Vivillon, Ludicolo, Lilligant, Haunter etc) while keeping good offense presence. It needs some support because it has some nasty weaknesses and hazards hurt a bit, but it's a good pick for bulky offense teams that just need a special wall that can do good damage (Audino and Lickilicky are very good special walls for example, but they give so many free switches and totally kill momentum because they're weak and Normal is easy to wall).

 

[Teddeh]

Right, I am absolutely astounded that Sliggoo is only a D rank. I'd love to nominate this pokemon for at the very least a B rank pokemon.
Here is my reasoning:
For one, sliggoo, along with some other threats in the tier can take on fire spam, however it has a niche that dragalge that it isn't weak to ground or psychic.
It has superior bulk to dragalge after eviolite and you don't even need to invest in your special defence for it to be a similar threat.
It's purely a specially defensive wall, however beats Magmortar, since it isn't weak to EQ or Psychic and can reply with powerful dragon pulse's, tosic stall, or even hp ground.
Although it lacks recovery, you can utilise sleep talk and rest for recovery as if you decide to fully invest in special defense, you can beat things like cryagonal 1 on 1 with toxic and rest-talk.
It's ability, sap sipper. This means you fully counter pokemon such as vileplume, tangela, leech seed users and even Vivvilon since they cannot sleep powder you and you can reply with a powerful ice beam, thunderbolt, dragon pulse etc. This means that you can check and counter almost special grass type and even pokemon such as lilligant, sceptile, serperior, exeggutor.
It needs very little support however pokemon such as metang fit the core perfectly as a specially defensive sliggoo along with metang is a near unbreakable specially defensive core which is extremely underrated and hard to break in balance.
Sliggoo walls a surprisingly large amount of the NU tier and should really be a much higher rank than D, I would know, I've used him for a long amount of time and have seen a lot of success with the poke as I have help number 1 and 2 position on the ladder with him in my main team.
Not to mention its base 60 speed so you don't even need to speed creep since it out speeds almost all of the common NU walls and vileplume especially by a long margin
Overall a really underrated pokemon and needs a higher rank. B in my opinion.

 

[WildHope]

Mesprit deserve S rank or A+ at least, he has too many sets (LO, CB, Specs, CM) and fit on any playstyle, he only problem is being a psychic-type. And her movepool is too big, Psychic/Psychock, Knock Off, Grass Knot, BoltBeam, U-Turn, etc., few things can switch into him.

Omastar must be A-, a good spiker with offensive presence and the Rain sets are deadly.
Not even Gurdurr can revenge kill him under rain:
252 SpA Life Orb Omastar Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr in Rain: 304-359 (81.2 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Gurdurr Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Omastar: 102-122 (36.1 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
And thats just Surf, not Hydro Pump, and Gurdurr is pretty bulky. Dont forget how popular spikes are right now.
Wall him is hard, Dragalge is 2HKO by Timid Ice Beam, (exept if you are using a 252/252+, but that is'nt a good idea). After a Shell Smash can be even more dangerous, but is hard to find a chance for set up. And Liepard is pretty popular and can stop him on any moment.

Crustle is too good for B rank, has competition but him can run Mental Herb (cause Sturdy obviously) and learn Knock Off (that means that dur, pawn, and weather setters can't set up on him so easily); oh, and Xatu/Liepard hate him, not many others spikers can say the same.

Edit: for the explanation

 

[Fluze3]

Mesprit deserve S rank or A+ at least, he has too many sets (LO, CB, Specs, CM) and fit on any playstyle, he only problem is being a psychic-type. And her movepool is too big, Psychic/Psychock, Knock Off, Grass Knot, BoltBeam, U-Turn, etc., few things can switch into him.

Omastar must be A-, a good spiker with offensive presence and the Rain sets are deadly.
Not even Gurdurr can revenge kill him under rain:
252 SpA Life Orb Omastar Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr in Rain: 304-359 (81.2 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Gurdurr Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Omastar: 102-122 (36.1 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
And thats just Surf, not Hydro Pump, and Gurdurr is pretty bulky. Dont forget how popular spikes are right now.
Wall him is hard, Dragalge is 2HKO by Timid Ice Beam, (exept if you are using a 252/252+, but that is'nt a good idea). After a Shell Smash can be even more dangerous, but is hard to find a chance for set up. And Liepard is pretty popular and can stop him on any moment.

Crustle is too good for B rank, has competition but him can run Mental Herb (cause Sturdy obviously) and learn Knock Off (that means that dur, pawn, and weather setters can't set up on him so easily); oh, and Xatu/Liepard hate him, not many others spikers can say the same.

Edit: for the explanation

Why wouldn't you be running Modest Nature under rain? That boggles me. 418 speed (iirc) is more than enough speed to outspeed some common threats, only being outsped by Scarf base 105s or something. There are only a small handful of pokemon that can outspeed this under rain even with Modest. However, Ludicolo is generally better as a Rain Dance sweeper due to its amazing coverage and reliable recovery under rain. Without a solid Rock-Type STAB, it really struggles to shine in rain. Besides, Shell Smash is easily better for it, but even then, it gets outclassed by Gorebyss, who has less weaknesses, especially only a 2x weak to grass instead of 4x.

However, it does have some niches over smashers because it has an easier time setting up do its decent defense stat, and, even with a timid nature, it can outspeed scarf base 89's and below at +2 (just gets outsped by scarfed base 90s (lilligant and kang are examples))

The only reason to be using Omastar this gen in any team is a suicide lead Omastar. The rest of its roles are outclassed completely by other pokemon.

Omastar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Surf
- Toxic Spikes / Ice Beam / Hidden Power [Grass]

In my opinion, it belongs in B+. It's not an A- pokemon due to its outclassed roles. It can quickly put hazards up, and that's about it.

EDIT: As for Crustle, I can see it moving to B+, if anything. It's got a niche as an effective hazard setter; but, with no Custap Berry this generation, it's not fast enough to get more hazards up. However, with Sturdy, it at least ensures SR up, which is nice. However, it's weak to the ever-common Rock and Water Types, so it can become setup fodder when up against Seismitoad, Omastar, or even Rhydon. But, with SolarHerb, it does play a niche, as long as it can outspeed the pokes first.

 

[Saint Antler]

CACTURNE FROM C- TO B

Most of you will most likely be shaking your head in disbelief. However, let me tell you exactly why Cacturne is so good.
I will quote my post in the Creative Movesets thread:

Cacturne @ Life orb
Ability: Water absorb
EVs: 236 Atk / 224 Sp. Atk / 48 Spd
Naughty nature
-Sucker Punch
-Dark Pulse
-Giga Drain
-Hidden power (fire)

At first glance Cacturne may seem like an inferior Shiftry. However it is so much more than that.
IMMUNE TO SCALD BTW JUST SAYING
Looking at Cacturne's stats, one may look at it's offensive stats: 115 Attack and an equal Special Attack to boast. Why is it in NU then you may ask? 55 Speed. The 48 Spd is to outspeed 0spd Weezing.
This, however is mitigated by Cacturne's Sucker Punch coming off that skyhigh attack whis is in turn boosted by Life orb.
This set also lures in common physical walls, such as Steelix ( lol ), Granbull, Vileplume or Ferroseed, all of which promply get 2HKO'd, as the following calcs prove.

224 SpA Life Orb Cacturne Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Vileplume: 165-196 (46.6 - 55.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
224 SpA Life Orb Cacturne Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Granbull: 216-255 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
224 SpA Life Orb Cacturne Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Steelix: 218-257 (61.5 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
224 SpA Life Orb Cacturne Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 228 SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 182-218 (62.3 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Those are just some walls that came to mind, feel free to request more calcs.

Next, it's ability to check the tier's versatile and/or incredibly powerful attackers.

236+ Atk Life Orb Cacturne Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Typhlosion: 208-246 (69.7 - 82.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
236+ Atk Life Orb Cacturne Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magmortar: 235-278 (80.4 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
236+ Atk Life Orb Cacturne Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Electivire: 235-278 (80.4 - 95.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
236+ Atk Life Orb Cacturne Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pyroar: 222-263 (70.7 - 83.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
236+ Atk Life Orb Cacturne Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Archeops: 242-285 (83.1 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Please note that because Cacturne has Water Absorb, Feraligatr is forced to use it's coverage move and Cacturne WILL get the Sucker Punch off. Or you could play mindgames and Giga Drain.
236+ Atk Life Orb Cacturne Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 169-200 (54.1 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

I think that that wall of calcs proves a point.
There are some checks to Cacturne, of course. Gurdurr can check, but cannot come in on Giga Drain twice.
224 SpA Life Orb Cacturne Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr: 165-195 (44.1 - 52.1%) -- 75.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Dragalge can roast poor cactus with it's Poison STAB:
236+ Atk Life Orb Cacturne Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 187-220 (55.9 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

With a little bit of prediction involved and/or pivot support, Cacturne can come in on most of the tiers powerful attackers or physical walls and threaten to OHKO / 2HKO them.
One could even use sash cacturne with spikes, there's also the SubPunching set, but if you're using that you cannot use Water Absorb sadly.

How it fares against some of the S- and A-ranks:

Spiritomb trying to burn you? 2HKO.
224+ SpA Life Orb Cacturne Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Spiritomb: 157-187 (51.6 - 61.5%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Offensive Mesprit?
252 Atk Life Orb Cacturne Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mesprit: 299-354 (99.3 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Rhydon lol
Seismitoad lol

252 Atk Life Orb Cacturne Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Accelgor: 317-374 (104.9 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Please, use my cactus friend. Please, let him out of the company of Muk, Swoobat and Simisage.

 

[watashi]

Fluze3 modest omastar doesn't even outspeed scarf base 80s and timid gorebyss only outspeeds up to scarf base 85s. it's not really outclassed by gorebyss as you can take kangaskhan a lot better and avoid being revenge killed by scarf rotom-a. it's typing also grants it more set up chances on choiced fire and normal types

 

[Zenza]

How can Victreebel be D rank? It is the best sun abuser in the tier and absolutely decimates offensive teams, heck even some balance teams once the sun is shining. Therefore i'm going to nominate Victreebel for C+. The definition of a C rank pokemon is "Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks." This is a perfect description of Victreebel. It is extremely effective when given the right support (sun), but because you can't always have sun, you can't always execute your strategy. Once this thing gets a growth up under sun, between its raw power and it's terrific coverage moves it becomes a complete wrecking ball.

Some calcs to help show Victreebel's power :
252+ SpA Life Orb Victreebel Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 234-277 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Victreebel Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 185-218 (45.1 - 53.1%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
And lastly....
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Victreebel Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 347-409 (81.8 - 96.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.

 

[Punchshroom]

The biggest reason why Victreebel is as low as it is would be because it is pretty worthless outside of Sun; even fellow Chlorophyll sweeper Exeggutor has roles outside of Sun sweeping. There is also the fact that it is hard as shit to nab the Growth without taking too much damage or getting crippled by status. Oh, and the presence of auto-Sand and a new hard counter in Dragalge is not doing Victreebel any favors either. I will admit to Victreebel's destructive prowess, but it has a lot going against it atm. That said, Victreebel does a heck of a lot more work than most of its fellow D Rankers, perhaps a bump to C- (or C, not pushing it) Rank is worth considering.

 

[Fluze3]

Speaking of chlorophyll sweepers...

Exeggutor for C -> C+

Exeggutor's stat distribution, especially it's amazing special attack, bismal speed (trick room/the sunshine) and an amazing ability in Harvest AND Chlorophyll, it can fulfill many roles on a team. The only reason that I don't say anything higher than C is because of its absolutely horrid typing defensively. 4x weak to the common U-turn and Bug Buzz and weak to Knock Off (gets rid of the berry) really doesn't help its case. Resistance to Fighting helps, but literally all of them carry Knock Off anyway. However, if used correctly, Grass/Psychic is a neat combination offensively, hitting the numerous water and fighting types super effectively; meaning that it can counter the VileToad strategy with both its STABs. Also, with a decent 95 base attack, it can also run a mixed sweeping role, or a Suicide role in Explosion. Also, with access to Chlorophyll and Harvest, it completely loves the sun -- making it faster or making it more durable. However, it can still function outside the sun with the always-handy Sleep Powder, giving it a free turn to set up a Substitute, Leech Seed, etc.

Exeggutor @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 Spe
Bold Nature
- Leech Seed
- Sleep Powder
- Substitute
- Psyshock / Hidden Power [Fire]

or

Exeggutor @ Life Orb / Choice Specs
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sunny Day / Sleep Powder
- Psyshock
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Sludge Bomb / Sleep Powder

 

[Aladyyn]

LumRest is in my opinion much better than both subseed and specs, at least it's what I myself have had the most success with.
Exeggutor @ Lum Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 248 HP / 152 SpA / 108 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Psychic
- Rest

It's an amazing utility pokemon, absorbs status, puts stuff to sleep, hits pretty damn hard with its STABs, is very bulky on the physical side, has access to amazing means of recovery... Basically all you want from a pokemon on balance/bulky offense. This set really shines against slower teams where it forces a shitton of switches, racking up potential hazard damage and stuff.
I personally wouldn't mind seeing Eggy in B-. Very versatile, super powerful (even without full investment on this set it still hits 356 spatk), great utility, most underrated pokemon in NU. Typing sucks but eh, can't have everything (not like you don't have a dark/bug/flying resist on every team lol).

 

[Kushalos]

What is my nig Pangoro doing so low on the rankings, thing is a monster should be B rank at least. While it is slow, it does have a good STAB combination only resisted by Fairies which are destroyed by a Poison Jab on the switch. Choice Band set is a great wallbreaker and has no good switchins, this baby puts in WORK under Trick Room.

252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Pangoro Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Gurdurr: 238-282 (63.6 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Pangoro Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 170-201 (50.8 - 60.1%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Pangoro Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Seismitoad: 396-466 (95.6 - 112.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Replay where it puts in work vs Aladyyn: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-152238159

 

[Axa]

Speaking of Grasses, what of Tropius? Fellow Harvest user, acceptable (though not amazing) offensive movepool, and unlike Exeggutor, SitrusHarvest doesn't get wrecked by Toxic Spikes. I'd say it'd be C- or D at the very worst, not unmentioned.

 

[Zenza]

Luxray really shouldn't be D rank imo. It can run a multiple of sets (guts, LO mixed, scarf etc.), and each one of these sets are all extremely viable. Depending on the coverage its running, there are really an extremely low amount of switch ins to Luxray. Let's say u switch in your Seismitoad predicting the physical set: Bam you take 85-100% from LO HP Grass. Or you switch in your audino predicting special: HURP, you take 72-85% from 0 Atk LO Superpower. Seriously, there are SO little switch ins to this thing. Between the unpredictability of which set it's running, and the vast amount of coverage moves it gets, there are no real SAFE switch ins to Luxray. Even it's somewhat low speed stat is partially mitigated by it's good 80/79/79 bulk. Therefore, I nominate Luxray for C+ rank :]

 

[Punchshroom]

Luxray really shouldn't be D rank imo. It can run a multiple of sets (guts, LO mixed, scarf etc.), and each one of these sets are all extremely viable. Depending on the coverage its running, there are really an extremely low amount of switch ins to Luxray. Let's say u switch in your Seismitoad predicting the physical set: Bam you take 85-100% from LO HP Grass. Or you switch in your audino predicting special: HURP, you take 72-85% from 0 Atk LO Superpower. Seriously, there are SO little switch ins to this thing. Between the unpredictability of which set it's running, and the vast amount of coverage moves it gets, there are no real SAFE switch ins to Luxray. Even it's somewhat low speed stat is partially mitigated by it's good 80/79/79 bulk. Therefore, I nominate Luxray for C+ rank :]

P.S. Scarf Luxray isn't viable js, what boosted threats does it even outrun :/

The biggest reason Luxray is so low is because Electivire is in the tier, which does most of what Luxray can do, but better. EVire has better offensive stats, better coverage, and even has free switch-in opportunities by virtue of its abilities. Guts and Intimidate + slow Volt Switch are the only things Luxray has over other Electrics in the tier, but Guts Luxray is instead outclassed by other Guts users (even Ursaring and Raticate smh) while a bulky Luxray set is starved for support options. There is very little reason to be using Luxray at all. I mean it's outclassed by goddamn Electivire, and EVire itself has a poor reputation.

 

[Zenza]

P.S. Scarf Luxray isn't viable js, what boosted threats does it even outrun :/

The biggest reason Luxray is so low is because Electivire is in the tier, which does most of what Luxray can do, but better. EVire has better offensive stats, better coverage, and even has free switch-in opportunities by virtue of its abilities. Guts and Intimidate + slow Volt Switch are the only things Luxray has over other Electrics in the tier, but Guts Luxray is instead outclassed by other Guts users (even Ursaring and Raticate smh) while a bulky Luxray set is starved for support options. There is very little reason to be using Luxray at all. I mean it's outclassed by goddamn Electivire, and EVire itself has a poor reputation.

I am a little new here so please excuse me if i'm misunderstood, but isn't that the definition of a C rank pokemon? "Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks." Luxray (especially the mixed LO set) can be a very effective mon when it is given the correct support, due to it's wide variety of coverage moves and strong offensive stats, but i agree it is outclassed by Electivire. But thats why Electivire is B+, Luxray is still too good to be in D rank. Again, there are really SO little safe switch ins to Luxray. Maybe it shouldn't be C+, but i feel strongly about Luxray being C or C-.

 

[Punchshroom]

You know the "no safe switch-ins" argument can only carry a mon so far, because if Luxray has no safe switch-ins then EVire probably has even less, yet it's not even in A-. Hell, Magmortar isn't A-, and that mon has enough switch-ins to count by hand. You also have to take into account how easy it is to get it in and out of battle (exhibit A: Rampardos), while also assessing the benefits and downsides for using this mon. The problem about Luxray is even if it does yield benefit, you're using an inferior Electivire and yielding inferior results. Why would you use this mon at all? Even Victreebel's cost is 'stick to Sun only', but the reward is 'sweep tons of shit left and right'. (P.S. Victreebel still shouldn't be this low).

As long as a Pokemon is completely overshadowed by a Pokemon (or multiple) at its role(s), it's not going to get a ranking even worth looking at. Florges probably won't do badly in OU, but the fact that Sylveon outperforms it so hard that using Florges just isn't worth handicapping oneself (to the point where it was blacklisted!). Same with Luxray.

 

[CanadianWifier]

As someone who's been exclusively using the Specially-based mixed LO set for about a month now, I feel the need to at least pipe up and give my opinion here. I was actually planning on making a post about this here eventually, but I got lazzzy :[
I used it generally as an Offensive check to Gatr - something it can do with intimidate that E-vire and other electrics can't. I posted a bit about this earlier, so I might as well just quote.

Luxury is a really strong mixed attacker with usable Speed and coverage that allows it to out-pace most if not all all defensive mons and most bulky attackers - most notably feraligatr. Also most people assume it's either going to be Guts or a purely physical attacker, which just helps with the damage it can do to teams if you opt to run a mixed set.

Anyway, being able to outspeed any feraligatr running less that 188 Speed [a lot of them, lol] allows Lux work as an offensive check to Feraligatr, as as after an intimidate Gatr does around 35% to Lux with a waterfall and luxray can OHKO even max HP gatr with Tbolt. Most of the time gatr is just scared out, and you can use voltswitch to keep up momentum as well. HP Fire / Superpower allows you to pick off Ferroseed after a Thunderbolt no matter what spread their running. It also allows you to break Audino, Probo, and lots of other Special walls weak to fighting. Hell, HP Fire even 2hko's plume if you can predict the switch.
And that's only the specially-based mixed pivot set I've been running. You still have a fully viable Guts set that hits like a truck, and potentially a defensive set with Baby-doll eyes.

Calcs and shit

252+ SpA Life Orb Luxray Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 398-468 (106.4 - 125.1%)
252+ SpA Life Orb Luxray Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 307-367 (82 - 98.1%)
-1 252+ Atk Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Luxray: 102-120 (33.8 - 39.8%)

4 Atk Life Orb Luxray Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Audino: 299-354 (72.9 - 86.3%)
4 Atk Life Orb Luxray Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Probopass: 380-452 (117.2 - 139.5%)
4 Atk Life Orb Luxray Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Lickilicky: 276-325 (65 - 76.6%)
252+ SpA Life Orb Luxray Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 126-149 (29.7 - 35.1%)

252+ SpA Life Orb Luxray Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Vileplume: 164-195 (46.3 - 55%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge
252+ SpA Life Orb Luxray Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 228+ SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 182-218 (62.3 - 74.6%)
4 Atk Life Orb Luxray Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 190-226 (65 - 77.3%)

In general it can at least severely dent a lot of defensive cores [off the top of my head, the only thing that really walls it is Dragalge] and it's ability to act as a pseudo offensive check to gatr is just icing on the cake. Lux is a cool mon, and while it's outclassed by E-vire in a lot of roles, I still think it has merit enough to be at least C rank.

 

[Brawlfest]

Luxray vs. EVire.

Luxray lacks any speed whatsoever.
No access to earthquake.
No access to flamethrower.
Intimidate is niche compared to Motor Drive and Vital Spirit, and can potentially help certain pokemon *cough* pawniard *Cough*


Simply put. There ISNT anything Luxray can do better. Physical or specially. C- or D at best.

 

[termi]

Luxray is fine where it is, it's literally just a poor man's Evire with a very tiny niche in that it has Intimidate giving it more bulk than Evire, but generally this thing is outclassed (sadly, I like kitty cat :[). Hell, without Intimidate I'd be vouching for it to drop to E-rank, honestly.

 

[Raseri]

id support moving Luxray up to C- rank, just because what it does have over electivire (Intimidate and bulk) is notable. Luxray can use a slow volt switch to get a teammate in safely, which evire will rarely be able to do. And the extra bulk helps with things like tanking gatr aqua jets and other priority.

So what luxray has over evire is small, but I do think its enough to be at least C- rank, and maybe C rank