Pokémon Medicham

[MikeDawg]

Drain punch deserves a slash (if not priority) given that no lefties+sub typically doesnt work too well for sustained setup.

I think that a sub 3 attack set would fare much better

Cham can force a switch, but that switch is to something that can deal with it, so scoring a hit on a typical check is far more important than what is likely a useless bulk up.

Be careful of cham forcing sacks rather than seitches, though. Nothing wants to switch in , so the opponent is frequntly inclined to stay in and attack rather than switch.

 

[gitgud69]

You miss the purpose of the set. True coverage moves are important, but after the sub is broken that gives you two options:
Set up another one while you go to 50% hp and your opponent kills you
Attack while you get priority'd/statused or bring something down with you

But in the event you have 1-2 bulk ups you have a great deal more staying power. Not to mention it boosts his already high attack to tremendous levels. He won't need coverage moves as even a resisted +1/+2 HJK 2HKO's most of the Metagame. And now that aegi's gone, only gengar gives you trouble, along with the rare sableye, trevenant, and gourgeist who aren't really viable in OU anyway

 

[MikeDawg]

Bulk up doesnt give you any staying power, hence why I advised against it. The defense of bulk up is rather useless given that you are now at 75%. At +1 the exact same mons beat you (if not a few more due to your lack of coverage).

Let's play pretend real quick.

You sub as Talonflame comes in.
You bulk up so that you have omg power and bulk as talon breaks your sub.
Talon kills you

Or

You sub as Talonflame comes in.
You zen headbutt or whatever and kill Talonflame as talon breaks the sub
-1 medicham check


It doesnt matter how much a boosted hjk kills the meta. It has no setup ops except on a late game sack (in which case y do you need to be +1?). Anything coming in is going to be faster than cham, so you are forced out anyway.

The opportunity cost of using bulk up is killing a mon.

The reward is... Not killing a mon.

In fact, i cant think of a single situation where a bulk up would be more useful than just attacking

 

[gitgud69]

Bulk up doesnt give you any staying power, hence why I advised against it. The defense of bulk up is rather useless given that you are now at 75%. At +1 the exact same mons beat you (if not a few more due to your lack of coverage).

Let's play pretend real quick.

You sub as Talonflame comes in.
You bulk up so that you have omg power and bulk as talon breaks your sub.
Talon kills you

Or

You sub as Talonflame comes in.
You zen headbutt or whatever and kill Talonflame as talon breaks the sub
-1 medicham check


It doesnt matter how much a boosted hjk kills the meta. It has no setup ops except on a late game sack (in which case y do you need to be +1?). Anything coming in is going to be faster than cham, so you are forced out anyway.

The opportunity cost of using bulk up is killing a mon.

The reward is... Not killing a mon.

In fact, i cant think of a single situation where a bulk up would be more useful than just attacking

You keep crying about coverage, but as I've said before, and you promptly ignored, HJK manhandles anything at +1/+2. His defense is adequate in the 80's which makes the bulk up set viable to begin with. Why don't you do some calcs before theorymoning this thread to kingdom come?

I've used both my set and the sub+3 attacks set in the OP and while the latter has immediate power, he is revenged killed a lot easier than purported. Everyone was yelling from the rooftops "aegislash is banned!!1 medichams is OP wallbreakerz!!1," when in reality a gentle breeze could KO him at 75%-50%. I tried to figure out a way to make him usuable, and this is what I came up with. Personally it has worked wonders for myself, but don't worry, I'm not going to use anecdotal evidence to disprove your flimsy argument. Once you look up the calcs that will be enough. Don't care enough to look them up myself. All I wanted was to see what you guys thought deserved a slash. I like the idea of drain punch. I was thinking about it, but I'd rather not lose out on priority, as he's rather slow. I was also thinking sub/hjk/baton pass/bulk w/jolly and max speed so he can get easy wish support. Or should I just seppuku for the shame of creating medicham bulk up sets?

 

[AM]

You keep crying about coverage, but as I've said before, and you promptly ignored, HJK manhandles anything at +1/+2. His defense is adequate in the 80's which makes the bulk up set viable to begin with. Why don't you do some calcs before theorymoning this thread to kingdom come?

I've used both my set and the sub+3 attacks set in the OP and while the latter has immediate power, he is revenged killed a lot easier than purported. Everyone was yelling from the rooftops "aegislash is banned!!1 medichams is OP wallbreakerz!!1," when in reality a gentle breeze could KO him at 75%-50%. I tried to figure out a way to make him usuable, and this is what I came up with. Personally it has worked wonders for myself, but don't worry, I'm not going to use anecdotal evidence to disprove your flimsy argument. Once you look up the calcs that will be enough. Don't care enough to look them up myself. All I wanted was to see what you guys thought deserved a slash. I like the idea of drain punch. I was thinking about it, but I'd rather not lose out on priority, as he's rather slow. I was also thinking sub/hjk/baton pass/bulk w/jolly and max speed so he can get easy wish support. Or should I just seppuku for the shame of creating medicham bulk up sets?

If you're realistically going to use Bulk Up you might as well just use that + 3 attacks or BU + Sub + 2 STAB. M-Cham wants to run a lot of stuff at once but unfortunately it can't, so it ends up beating some things more consistently while losing to others. I never liked Bulk Up anyways though simply cause I think there are more useful options for it when it goes up against Offense.

 

[MikeDawg]

Bulk up is good against alomomola

 

[Anjunadeep]

Or should I just seppuku for the shame of creating medicham bulk up sets?

252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. +2 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 182-216 (69.4 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. +2 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 237-281 (90.4 - 107.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. +2 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 270-320 (103 - 122.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

EDIT: okay fine, I've used your spread a few posts below.

 

[gitgud69]

252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. +2 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 182-216 (69.4 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. +2 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 237-281 (90.4 - 107.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. +2 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 270-320 (103 - 122.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Yeah, maybe.

252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 0+ SpD Rotom-W: 356-420 (147.7 - 174.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I can cherry pick too <3~~

 

[BurningFury101]

252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 0+ SpD Rotom-W: 356-420 (147.7 - 174.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I can cherry pick too <3~~

How is he cherry picking if he's using the set:
- On the calculator
- That's the most common set
- That's the most viable set

Also your calc isn't relevant to anything frend. :]

 

[Jaiho]

You keep crying about coverage, but as I've said before, and you promptly ignored, HJK manhandles anything at +1/+2. His defense is adequate in the 80's which makes the bulk up set viable to begin with. Why don't you do some calcs before theorymoning this thread to kingdom come?

I've used both my set and the sub+3 attacks set in the OP and while the latter has immediate power, he is revenged killed a lot easier than purported. Everyone was yelling from the rooftops "aegislash is banned!!1 medichams is OP wallbreakerz!!1," when in reality a gentle breeze could KO him at 75%-50%. I tried to figure out a way to make him usuable, and this is what I came up with. Personally it has worked wonders for myself, but don't worry, I'm not going to use anecdotal evidence to disprove your flimsy argument. Once you look up the calcs that will be enough. Don't care enough to look them up myself. All I wanted was to see what you guys thought deserved a slash. I like the idea of drain punch. I was thinking about it, but I'd rather not lose out on priority, as he's rather slow. I was also thinking sub/hjk/baton pass/bulk w/jolly and max speed so he can get easy wish support. Or should I just seppuku for the shame of creating medicham bulk up sets?

since you're being so stubborn, and don't want to listen to the arguments of others, how about posting some replays of your set doing work against good players? You say its "worked wonders", so prove it. Show us the reason why bulk up should ever be used over sub + 3 attacks, or really any other medicham set.

Also, being completely walled by anything that resists fighting is never a good idea. I would run zen headbutt over baton pass, since medicham has no form of recovery, and BPing just wastes HP

 

[gitgud69]

How is he cherry picking if he's using the set:
- On the calculator
- That's the most common set
- That's the most viable set

Also your calc isn't relevant to anything frend. :]

Not very perceptive are we, frend? Talonflame is a straight up counter to any and all medicham sets. Even with substitute, medicham cannot take priority brave birds to the face. Thus the venusaur/rotom-w reference. Secondly if you actually read my original post you would have seen a different spread w/ impish/careful.

Declaring it's the most viable set is just opinions without any evidence.

 

[thdhted]

Fake out Ice punch drain punch psycho cut. item medichamite. ability pure power.

that is one of it's worst sets. zen headbut is MUCH more useful than psycho cut, even with the miss chance, and has a noticeable power difference and fake out+drain punch is just BAD. the big reason to use mega medicham is HJK and unless you are running sub or bulk up you have zero reason to be using drain punch.

 

[Schpoonman]

Are there any notable OHKOs/2HKOs that Zen Headbutt gets that Psycho Cut doesn't? I briefly used Megacham and Psycho Cut was hitting hard enough on everything I used it on. That "briefly" should be emphasized because it was VERY brief indeed.

 

[Χerneas]

Are there any notable OHKOs/2HKOs that Zen Headbutt gets that Psycho Cut doesn't? I briefly used Megacham and Psycho Cut was hitting hard enough on everything I used it on. That "briefly" should be emphasized because it was VERY brief indeed.

First things I checked. Very relevant mons. If I had time Id find more.

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 366-432 (100.5 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 320-378 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 288-340 (96.6 - 114%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 253-298 (84.8 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

 

[haunter]

Zen Headbutt is necessary to have a chance at 2HKOing Clefable, a very common switch into Medicham:

1. 252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
2. 252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 192-226 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Anjunadeep]

Not very perceptive are we, frend? Talonflame is a straight up counter to any and all medicham sets. Even with substitute, medicham cannot take priority brave birds to the face. Thus the venusaur/rotom-w reference. Secondly if you actually read my original post you would have seen a different spread w/ impish/careful. (No not really, your OP didn't have impish in it, so...)

*snip*

Adding onto this, I'll try your spread...

252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 96 Def Mega Medicham: 416-494 (159.3 - 189.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. +1 0 HP / 96 Def Mega Medicham: 281-330 (107.6 - 126.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 96+ Def Mega Medicham: 382-452 (146.3 - 173.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. +1 0 HP / 96+ Def Mega Medicham: 257-304 (98.4 - 116.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

yeah, talonflame makes it gitgud69, even more so when it's choice band tflame, which manages to OHKO it at +2.
However, just gonna state that talonflame is not a counter to medicham at all. Heck, it can't be named a counter to anything per se, because it's frail, and it has a 4x SR weakness, meaning it's not gonna be switching into moves as often as you think. There's also this:

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 288-339 (96.9 - 114.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 284-334 (95.6 - 112.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

I also agree with Jaiho , I'm very interested in seeing a high-ladder replay where Mega medicham has "worked wonders" as you say.
That said, I've run a few calcs, and medicham's spread isn't OHKO'd by anything else relevant in OU (but is 2HKO'd by most of these threats even at +1). However, the lack of passive recovery, reliance on Drain Punch to prevent it from being 2HKO'd by anything, it's lacklustre bulk, low HP substitutes and zero HP investment, along with zero speed investment causing you to be outsped by generally faster walls such as gliscor, landorus-t and rotom, kinda makes this set... ehh.

 

[Prinz]

I don't know if anyone already mentioned that, but Thunder Punch is actually a viable move on Medichams nowadays. It lets you hit Slowbro and Alomomola (the former mainly, even if the latter can be troublesome with Protect on HJK as well) that are becoming more common on Stall teams which Medicham is supposed to beat. It's true that you have to give up one other useful move, but Thunder Punch isn't that bad I guess.

 

[Aragorn the King]

I don't know if anyone already mentioned that, but Thunder Punch is actually a viable move on Medichams nowadays. It lets you hit Slowbro and Alomomola (the former mainly, even if the latter can be troublesome with Protect on HJK as well) that are becoming more common on Stall teams which Medicham is supposed to beat. It's true that you have to give up one other useful move, but Thunder Punch isn't that bad I guess.

Well, HJK does more to fishy anyway, so it's really only slowbro that I can think of that needs TPunch. However, since it is becoming common, it isn't a terrible choice. I saw some set that was Sub, DPunch, Zen Headbutt, and Tpunch that covers everything on stall except for Gliscor, while providing recovery. It doesn't sound bad, however I still like HKJ better than DPunch in general.

 

[Prinz]

It also hits Gyarados that usually not mega evolve against Medicham but thats it. Also I know that HJK does more on Alomomola but I meant that with Thunder Punch you can still 2HKO it without worrying about Protect.

 

[Aragorn the King]

It also hits Gyarados that usually not mega evolve against Medicham but thats it. Also I know that HJK does more on Alomomola but I meant that with Thunder Punch you can still 2HKO it without worrying about Protect.

Yeah that's fair. HJK is HJMiss most of the time anyway.

 

[Jukain]

yea i posted a sub dpunch + tpunch set, it's pretty cool because you can still break skarmory while running drain punch which is great with sub as well as hit slowbros, alomomolas, bulky starmies, gyarados (for ohko), and azumarill (annoying check). definitely a nice option what with the massive surge in slowbro as of late. zen already dents landt pretty well and 2hkoes most gliscor, so that's not too big of a deal.

 

[13_luckynumber]

What are MegaCham most common counters? I know there are Slowbro (which is only for stall), Gliscor (50/50 cuz it's either ice punch or fire punch), Lando-T (sort of, like Gliscor, Ice Punch annihilates) and what else?

 

[Karxrida]

What are MegaCham most common counters? I know there are Slowbro (which is only for stall), Gliscor (50/50 cuz it's either ice punch or fire punch), Lando-T (sort of, like Gliscor, Ice Punch annihilates) and what else?

Cesselia. Bulky as fuck, can spread T-Waves around, checks/counters a ton of top tier stuff, and really likes having Aegislash gone.

 

[Always!]

Your

What are MegaCham most common counters? I know there are Slowbro (which is only for stall), Gliscor (50/50 cuz it's either ice punch or fire punch), Lando-T (sort of, like Gliscor, Ice Punch annihilates) and what else?

Mega-Medicham has very few counters in the sense that it's coverage will normally obliterate them. Even Slowbro is 2HKOed by ThunderPunch. Bulky Psychics like Cresselia, Sableye (but fuck sableye), anything that had reasonable bulk and resistant to it's STABs Counters it, but it still hits like a truck and often carries pokemon that can check the aforementioned pokemon.

 

[13_luckynumber]

Cesselia. Bulky as fuck, can spread T-Waves around, checks/counters a ton of top tier stuff, and really likes having Aegislash gone.

Cress seems good. I guess no recovery limits number of times it can switch in but calcs show some promises. Tks

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Cresselia: 138-162 (31 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery