Metagame Trends

[chimpact]

you can also run speed on ampharos to outspeed base 50s and - nature swampert post mega evo and potentially 2hko with dragon pulse.

 

[canasian]

I think the analysis actually includes enough speed ev's to beat neutral Swampert but the general rule here is apparently "pretend that nothing runs speed ev's and see how many ladder scrubs you can trick into buying it"

 

[Sage]

Yeah I've seen games been won by the player who speed crept their Sableye more. Also there are some common speed benchmarks, like Adamant Krow, base 100s try to creep him. In response to this I've seen many Jolly Honchkrows on the ladder, definitely much more than before. The first time I saw was when my Fletchinder got outsped with a Sucker Punch, normally Fletch would have that revenge kill, but I think JollyKrow is becoming more and more common. Thoughts? I'm not an experience Honchkrow player so I don't know the exact benefits of Adamant.

 

[Patrick1088]

Sage of the 6 jolly krow is pretty rare. The extra boost to atk is really important. There really isnt much to outspeed at base 70 with a jolly nature and sp def mew with no investment. But then night slazh would be better...

 

[Sage]

Sage of the 6 jolly krow is pretty rare. The extra boost to atk is really important. There really isnt much to outspeed at base 70 with a jolly nature and sp def mew with no investment. But then night slazh would be better...

Yeah Patrick Ik adamant is better but I've just noticed a lot of JollyKrows lately. Tryna outspeed Fletch and 100's creeping it, just an observation, I would run Adamant.

 

[Ernesto]

On that topicomething which I don't know if it's trending on ladder but definitely in general is fast Mew: there are a couple of Speed tiers to hit, basically 260 (Modest Chandy), 270 (Adamant Hera), 280 (Adamant Luke) 297 (Jolly Hera/Timid King), and 308 (Timid Rose). While you're missing out on a lot of bulk, the general benefits are pretty cool, since they allow you to always outspeed the stuff you're generally switching in on—so as to not get donked by fast Nidoqueen, for example—meaning you can actually switch in and heal. Taking close to half from Sludge Wave IS annoying because you're put at a disadvantage, but you know that even if you're forced out, you'll still be able to switch in and heal if you've removed the hazards. Outspeeding Chandy and Hera are definite pluses, since even tho they're generally forcing you out, you can Knock Off/Psyshock them in a pinch lategame. Oh, and obviously burning Lukes is icing on the cake :o

The set:

Mew @ Leftovers
EVs: 240 HP / 92 SpD / 176 Spe
Jolly | Timid Nature (0 Atk IVs if running Psyshock)
- Will-O-Wisp (T-Wave is an option for Volc I guess)
- Roost
- Defog | Taunt
- Knock Off | Psyshock

Edit: It's obviously probably better fit on faster-paced teams, but even in slower ones it helps because it allows Mew to avoid falling to offensive pressure (ie double switches and stuff compounded with hazards)

 

[Bouff]

Ok, so here's a set that's being used a lot in tourneys and I think is pretty underrated (well at least the mon is). I also think this is a really good thread, should get more attention from the higher-ups. =/

Tornadus @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Tailwind
- Hurricane
- Grass Knot
- Knock Off | U-tun

Basically, this is best fit on hyper offensive teams with set-up sweepers, or just breakers in general that are slightly lacking in speed, such as Swords Dance Haxorus, Choice Band / Swords Dance Heracross, and some others that I can't really think of lol. Meanwhile, Tornadus has more than enough offensive presence to pressure a lot of mons in the current meta, with a great (yet unreliable) STAB in Hurricane, Grass Knot to kill off bulky waters such as Swampert and Suicune, and Knock Off or U-turn, the former providing good coverage while crippling mons dependent on their item early-game, while the latter can keep momentum going consistently.

Since no one else really wants to on a daily basis I'm gonna try posting in this thread more later.

 

[kokoloko]

people started catching up anyway so here. this core is kinda weird in the sense that it isn't offensive or defensive, its a hazard support core for bulky offense with a lot of good resists. its one i use in my favorite team and i noticed its started catching on. nidoqueen + mega blastoise. i guess the more "trendy" aspect of it is that more and more people have realized running a significant amount of speed on blastoise is better than running none. specifically, you should aim to beat -1 victini.

also related but not a trend because people still don't get it fsr... dragon pulse > aura sphere on blastoise. its better. hits the offensive blastoise switchins while aura sphere hits... umbreon, empoleon, and like blissey for about 30%. if you're weak to umb/emp sure keep aura but otherwise those fuckers are so nonthreatening that i prefer dragon pulse to deter haxorus/toxicroak setups. also hydro pump is way better on blaster because ffs it already has TWO 100% acc STABs in dark pulse and dragon pulse/aura sphere. hydro gives you the option to go for power. if you want accuracy click one of the other attacks.

here's the sets i guess:

Blastoise (F) @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 144 HP / 252 SpA / 112 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Rapid Spin
- Dragon Pulse

Nidoqueen (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 128 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Beam

slap this core on a bulky offense team and you'll notice how much easier it is to check all relevant threats, teambuilding-wise, because these two eliminate the whole "damn i need SR" and "damn i need hazard control" aspect from teambuilding while giving you a great set of resists, a volt switch immunity, a toxic spikes absorber, and two mons that live pretty much anything from 100% and do a fuckload of dmg back without LO recoil--meaning you immediately have two checks to like.... everything.

only real downside to this core is that you can't use another mega and they all would work so fucking well w/ blaster :[

 

[Bad Ass]

i just want to comment on the cloyster trend (well psychotic using it...) going on recently. i don't think it is really worth using over froslass. consider this:

cloyster sets up suicide hazards and then uses explosion to stop the defog / rapid spin

froslass sets up suicide hazards and uses taunt to stop the defog / rapid spin.

so at the core, they are pretty much fulfilling the same role. however, froslass is much faster and can often get a free KO with destiny bond (or at least force them to switch, thus a free layer of spikes). cloyster also gets cockblocked by defog and rapid spin users, who hold it down to only 1 hazard before cloyster has to explode. it has a shitty max speed as well, so fast defog mew (or another fast defogger) can totally eliminate cloyster's use. i can see it having a small niche in being able to set up on some Mons that froslass can't, but overall.......just use froslass

 

[Sage]

i just want to comment on the cloyster trend (well psychotic using it...) going on recently. i don't think it is really worth using over froslass. consider this:

cloyster sets up suicide hazards and then uses explosion to stop the defog / rapid spin

froslass sets up suicide hazards and uses taunt to stop the defog / rapid spin.

so at the core, they are pretty much fulfilling the same role. however, froslass is much faster and can often get a free KO with destiny bond (or at least force them to switch, thus a free layer of spikes). cloyster also gets cockblocked by defog and rapid spin users, who hold it down to only 1 hazard before cloyster has to explode. it has a shitty max speed as well, so fast defog mew (or another fast defogger) can totally eliminate cloyster's use. i can see it having a small niche in being able to set up on some Mons that froslass can't, but overall.......just use froslass

Cloyster should really stick to Mixed LO with Explosion imo. I used it and its an awesome lure to Slowbro, Suicune, and Aloma. Fross is much better spiker. Taunt shuts down defogs without killing itself, Icy Wind can help your switch in, and T-wave is just annoying. Also Cursed Body is pretty cool, its come in clutch fo rme more than once. CLoysters SS standard sweeping is OK right now, but the lure set is great.

 

[Mahmudkipz]

Responding to the GutsOrb Hera set, while I have used the set and very much enjoyed using it (SDing on Protects that attempt to stallout the Toxic is funny af), but I dislike the fact that Heracross is pretty much put on a timer and has to switch very often. Stealth Rock combined with the status damage really sucks as you are often left with a Heracross with ~80% if you manually switch it in, and that is not counting the damage it takes if it attempts to switch into a Blissey/Suicune taking 30% more damage from S.Toss/Scalds and now it is half dead. Also doesn't work well with Clerics as you need another free turn to activate the orb if you attempt to cure a teammate.

However, Facade is REALLY nice for Hera as it allows it to kill Aromatisse and Granbull easily. I missed it often when I use normal banded Hera...

So I have came up with this

Heracross @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge / Frustration (if you are a weakling)
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Knock Off

some calcs
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Double-Edge vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 252-297 (76.1 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (scarf bat runs 80 HP iirc)
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 185-218 (45.5 - 53.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (assuming you knocked it lefties on its first switch into you :])

And if burnt
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Heracross Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 181-213 (47.1 - 55.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
:]


While it does recoil damage you don't have to suffer all the compulsory residual damage you get from using GutsOrb and it fits with a cleric better :]]

 

[Meru]

User st123 has been making good use of Ice Shard Froslass and Acrobatics Crobat. Definitely something that goes beyond the scope of gimmick and could definitely catch on. Cool trend atm.

 

[KM]

rain teams should be more popular but i seem to be the only person using them atm... but either way i'm trendy enough to singlehandedly make it a trend. Manaphy is a great rain setter and a great rain sweeper and offers so much to rain teams that they desperately need.

also, np pass togetic has been used a bit - off the top of my head hilarious and Professional2341 have used it recently (if i'm spreading misinformation please don't stab me). It's a cool slow bulky np passer, but there's very few fast special sweepers in the tier that don't already get it (mostly just scarfsploud / yanmega that can really make the most of it) so it's not quite as good as it sounds. still a neat trend doe

 

[Meru]

people started catching up anyway so here. this core is kinda weird in the sense that it isn't offensive or defensive, its a hazard support core for bulky offense with a lot of good resists. its one i use in my favorite team and i noticed its started catching on. nidoqueen + mega blastoise. i guess the more "trendy" aspect of it is that more and more people have realized running a significant amount of speed on blastoise is better than running none. specifically, you should aim to beat -1 victini.

also related but not a trend because people still don't get it fsr... dragon pulse > aura sphere on blastoise. its better. hits the offensive blastoise switchins while aura sphere hits... umbreon, empoleon, and like blissey for about 30%. if you're weak to umb/emp sure keep aura but otherwise those fuckers are so nonthreatening that i prefer dragon pulse to deter haxorus/toxicroak setups. also hydro pump is way better on blaster because ffs it already has TWO 100% acc STABs in dark pulse and dragon pulse/aura sphere. hydro gives you the option to go for power. if you want accuracy click one of the other attacks.

here's the sets i guess:

Blastoise (F) @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 144 HP / 252 SpA / 112 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Rapid Spin
- Dragon Pulse

Nidoqueen (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 128 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Beam

slap this core on a bulky offense team and you'll notice how much easier it is to check all relevant threats, teambuilding-wise, because these two eliminate the whole "damn i need SR" and "damn i need hazard control" aspect from teambuilding while giving you a great set of resists, a volt switch immunity, a toxic spikes absorber, and two mons that live pretty much anything from 100% and do a fuckload of dmg back without LO recoil--meaning you immediately have two checks to like.... everything.

only real downside to this core is that you can't use another mega and they all would work so fucking well w/ blaster :[

Gonna make sure to highlight some things about this combo. I've been using it and it's so good how they can pivot off of each other's counters. Really a godtier combo. Dragon Pulse also has huge merit in getting past something somewhat underrated to taking on Mega Blastoise without Ice Beam: Chesnaught. Could otherwise be much more annoying with the standard set. You're 4 speed EV's short of outspeeding Bandtini though. Right now, your spread is tying it.

 

[kokoloko]

rain teams should be more popular but i seem to be the only person using them atm... but either way i'm trendy enough to singlehandedly make it a trend. Manaphy is a great rain setter and a great rain sweeper and offers so much to rain teams that they desperately need.

im using rain for ULT its super fucking fun but its really really dependent on matchup. team im using is: rocks + rain @damp rock azelf / dam rock tornadus / damp rock sableye / LO SD aqua jet kabutops / LO 4 attacks kingdra / wacan TG manaphy. yesterday i ran into umbreon / chesnaught / scarf raikou / mega blastoise and there was literally nothing i could do to win because there was too much pressure on manaphy. its a good style to breeze past the bottom ladder cause each game takes like 5 mins but once you start getting into the zone where good and/or gimmicky players are its a lot harder to win consistently.

Gonna make sure to highlight some things about this combo. I've been using it and it's so good how they can pivot off of each other's counters. Really a godtier combo. Dragon Pulse also has huge merit in getting past something somewhat underrated to taking on Mega Blastoise without Ice Beam: Chesnaught. Could otherwise be much more annoying with the standard set. You're 4 speed EV's short of outspeeding Bandtini though. Right now, your spread is tying it.

well aura sphere gets past chesnaught too afaik, but dragon pulse is still better :o and no lol 112 EVs hits 220 and -1 tini sits at 219.

 

[Ernesto]

Silly koko, Chester is immune to Aura Sphere, smh. Also I don't wanna sound like a broken Rampaging Tyranotar record, but I was using D-Pulse Blaster + Nidoqueen in Beta :o (remember the SDPass Celebi + Lucha team?). You do get merit for the Blaster spread tho—even if we discussed it together—since I at most ran enough for Adamant Crawfish at the time (outsped and KOed with D-Pulse). Also fast opposing Queen messes you up imo :P.

 

[pokemonisfun]

rain teams should be more popular but i seem to be the only person using them atm... but either way i'm trendy enough to singlehandedly make it a trend. Manaphy is a great rain setter and a great rain sweeper and offers so much to rain teams that they desperately need.

also, np pass togetic has been used a bit - off the top of my head hilarious and Professional2341 have used it recently (if i'm spreading misinformation please don't stab me). It's a cool slow bulky np passer, but there's very few fast special sweepers in the tier that don't already get it (mostly just scarfsploud / yanmega that can really make the most of it) so it's not quite as good as it sounds. still a neat trend doe

Togetic and Yanmega was being used on the RU ladder so naturally I copied what strong players appeared to be using but in UU instead since RU is a pretty horrible tier IMHO. You are indeed spreading misinformation Togetic Yanmega is actually way better than it sounds: look at all your teams, stall included. I sincerely doubt any of them (maybe 1 out of 10 at most, if you even have that many teams, personally I only keep about 4) has more than one Pokemon that can beat a +2 Yanmega (Giga Drain please, Shadow Ball has its uses but not as many) with Speed Boost and Protect. Most of the teams on the ladder have 0 things that can beat it. Togetic is a great passer especially as she can kill Sableye Taunt easily after a boost (well you need SR and rolls) and can survive say Choice Band V-Creates if you EV her right. I think out of about 30 or so ladder games, all of them when my accounts were at least 1600-1800 ELO, I remember losing only once (I am fairly certain I lost more than once though I just honestly don't remember) because a CM Florges rofl stomped be. Generally Florges is supposed to be set up fodder but I guess CM Florges can work if you try really hard.

Also there might be utility in Specs Swellow over Scarf Exploud but I'm not really sure.

 

[Meru]

im using rain for ULT its super fucking fun but its really really dependent on matchup. team im using is: rocks + rain @damp rock azelf / dam rock tornadus / damp rock sableye / LO SD aqua jet kabutops / LO 4 attacks kingdra / wacan TG manaphy. yesterday i ran into umbreon / chesnaught / scarf raikou / mega blastoise and there was literally nothing i could do to win because there was too much pressure on manaphy. its a good style to breeze past the bottom ladder cause each game takes like 5 mins but once you start getting into the zone where good and/or gimmicky players are its a lot harder to win consistently.


well aura sphere gets past chesnaught too afaik, but dragon pulse is still better :o and no lol 112 EVs hits 220 and -1 tini sits at 219.

Yeah your spread is right. For some reason I thought -2 Scarf Victini was the same speed as -1 Band Victini

 

[Schpoonman]

Togetic and Yanmega was being used on the RU ladder so naturally I copied what strong players appeared to be using but in UU instead since RU is a pretty horrible tier IMHO. You are indeed spreading misinformation Togetic Yanmega is actually way better than it sounds: look at all your teams, stall included. I sincerely doubt any of them (maybe 1 out of 10 at most, if you even have that many teams, personally I only keep about 4) has more than one Pokemon that can beat a +2 Yanmega (Giga Drain please, Shadow Ball has its uses but not as many) with Speed Boost and Protect. Most of the teams on the ladder have 0 things that can beat it. Togetic is a great passer especially as she can kill Sableye Taunt easily after a boost (well you need SR and rolls) and can survive say Choice Band V-Creates if you EV her right. I think out of about 30 or so ladder games, all of them when my accounts were at least 1600-1800 ELO, I remember losing only once (I am fairly certain I lost more than once though I just honestly don't remember) because a CM Florges rofl stomped be. Generally Florges is supposed to be set up fodder but I guess CM Florges can work if you try really hard.

Also there might be utility in Specs Swellow over Scarf Exploud but I'm not really sure.

You mean Chatot, right?

 

[Ernesto]

Nah, he means Swellow because of Scrappy—which allows it to spam Boomburst more easily. Basically, it hits a bit harder than Scarf Exploud and is barely slower—assuming both run Timid nature, Exploud hits 387 Speed and 281 Special Attack, while Swellow hits 383 Speed and 298 Special Attack—so it comes down to an argument between having actual bulk plus coverage (the latter of which is rather moot if you ask me, since you're gonna be spamming Boomburst once you're at +2) or having U-turn to get Togetic in. Unless you ran Scarf on Chatot (which is still stopped by Ghosts, however uncommon they might be), you would be missing out on outspeeding a lot of relevant targets.
I will, however, give you that Scarf Chatot can hit harder than Swellow with a Modest nature (hitting 421 Speed and 311 Special Attack), and it can always use Chatter to try and give Togetic free switches I guess.

Edit: Obviously you can always run Modest Swellow / Exploud, meaning the argument in favor of Chatot has less weight. While you do miss out on outspeeding base 115s, Zam and Duggy, and Noivern I guess, you outrun everything up to Infernape—and even Lass in Exploud's case—which makes Modest definitely viable, even tho I generally favor outspeeding stuff I'm supposed to outspeed.

 

[Bouff]

alright so this thing is probably the new pink core in terms of how popular it is. It's been used by a lot of top-tier players / teams, such as Koko's Empire and st123's uh...team whored in gslam.

Froslass (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: NaN Atk
- Taunt
- Spikes
- Destiny Bond
- Icy Wind / Thunder Wave

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Knock Off
- Recover
- Taunt

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Stealth Rock
- Roar


This is usually what you'll see the most when fighting Lass Offense (i don't really consider Froslass teams hyper-offense, considering how much of a momemtum-killer Swampert is), thanks to the fact that Sableye and Froslass form the infamous dual ghost core, which is known for being able to have "total hazard control", as koko calls it, meaning that it can block Rapid Spin thanks to their Ghost-typing, and their access to high base speed (or Prankster, in Sableye's case) + Taunt lets them potentially block Defog as well. This is especially useful in Sableye's case, as it has the niche of being one of (well pretty much the only thing besides like MAero) being able to block Defog from the likes of Crobat and Mega Aerodactyl.

As to what Swampert adds to the core, it basically serves as a mon that can tank Victini's V-create, as well as setup Stealth Rock and phaze reliably (this is also pretty much the main reason Hippo has been passed over in this role, as it gets 2HKO'd by Tini). Swampert is a really great phazer with its defensive typing and bulk, as well as the mechanic change in XY letting Roar bypass Protect, meaning it essentially forces out Umbreon and Florges trying to regain their health, while racking up Spikes and Stealth Rock damage in the process.

One note about Sableye; while it most likely won't be able to beat common offensive spinners, mainly Megastoise and Sableye, they will usually be worn down to the point where they will be able to be revenged killed by common partners such as Sharpedo, Lucario, and Manaphy while keeping the hazards intact, thanks to Sableye's access to priority Will-o-Wisp and being able to rack up burn damage with Recover.

 

[Schpoonman]

Actually, Swampert has been mostly replaced with Mega Aero now. Keeps the Fire resist, which was Swampert's biggest niche anyway, but now the Rock setter can heal itself and has way more offensive presence.

 

[Meru]

I'd argue that Lucario is much more integral to that core anyways, as it appreciates Spikes support to wear down a lot of the bulky offensive 'mons to pull off an endgame sweep, although some people use Sharpedo and that works just as well.

 

[Schpoonman]

Lucario isn't really a member of the core, though. It's a sweeper that capitalizes on the core keeping hazards up. In fact, the whole start to the team was just to keep hazards always on the field, it would work with any sweeper.

 

[Meru]

Ampharos itself has been skyrocketing in usage recently. One thing people need to realize though... if you're leaving it un-mevo'd to kill that Hydreigon, please realize you're pretty much using a 80 BP coverage move on a 115 SpA Modest Ampharos with no boosting item... aka weak as fuck

252+ SpA Ampharos Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 204-240 (62.7 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Otherwise an overall cool 'mon. Very cool how it's still able to get momentum against Blissey.