-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Typemons
- Thread starter Halliday
- Start date
>never
>forgets about priority moves
The discussion about Wobbuffet gave me an evil idea.
Gothitelle @ Life Orb
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Heal Order
- Psyshock
- Bug Buzz
Come in on any special attacker which isn't too much of a threat and use Quiver Dance and Heal Order to get to +6 then sweep. I chose Bug Buzz as the coverage move, but HP Fighting or Thunderbolt may be better options.
Gothitelle @ Life Orb
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Heal Order
- Psyshock
- Bug Buzz
Come in on any special attacker which isn't too much of a threat and use Quiver Dance and Heal Order to get to +6 then sweep. I chose Bug Buzz as the coverage move, but HP Fighting or Thunderbolt may be better options.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
Bug is actually an amazing type for breaking the balanced/stallish teams sometimes seen. Stuff like quiver dance landorus-i and keldeo are amazing win conditions against all archetypes, as their sheer power after boosting is nearly unmatched. Keldeo is especially good, due to its decent bulk and a defensive typing that allows it to resist/take little damage from many common pokes dual stabs, allowing it to set up pretty easily and proceed to wreck the opponents team. The lack of viable special sweepers compared to the already good physical ones can really be remedied by everything being able to quiver dance and wreck teams. Meanwhile, Bug is good for a few more things as well. One of the most important is giving every mon reliable recovery in heal order, meaning mons like mega amphy and aggron become so much better as tanks. A mega ampharos or aggron tank set becomes really viable, especially with aggrons massive bulk with filter and mega amphy's amazing defensive typing. Heal order is just an amazing addition to every mons movepool in general. U-turn is also another reason to use bug, as bulky regenerators and pivots in general are great. Having strong choiced mons with u-turn is really helpful as well, for things like gaining momentum and giving yourself an advantage you shouldn't have. A gimmicky reason to use bug is infestation, which can be a cool excuse to trap a mon. Using it on something like thundurus can provide yourself setup oppurtunities and rob the opponent of momentum.
me vs cactus in a tour final. the hero of he skies failed me
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/customgame-152389634
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/customgame-152389634
You mean Thundurus-Incarnate, right?
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
Thundurus-i i would understand the banning of, its support value with prankster is just so metagame defining. The issue is if we ban it there will be tons of rampant sweepers on the loose, and I think that it wouldn't be very desireable to get rid of the best sweep-stopper in the metagame by far. Therefore I would vote not to ban thundurus-i, since it is what keeps the meta from being filled to the brim with powerful sweepers. Seriously, in STABmons there is stuff like heatran and tyranitar that are commonly used to tank attacks, but here there would be no need for bulk at all without thundurus.
Last edited:
fixed
Lcass4919
The Xatu Warrior
i actually kind of agree with xjownage on this, thunderus is basically what keeps offense on its toes vs other forms of offense otherwise it just becomes a "who can setup and sweep faster" type of thing, and forces offense to sacrifice A LOT of momentum to run a different prankster/unaware user. on top of that, its not like genesect...or deoxys, where it has many powerful roles (remember, this meta is more diverse then ou) or its counters are limited to one...its just...the 5th gen scizor of typemons. it fits well in a majority of teams, it has 2 good roles, and its decently powerful...but it doesn't really warrant a ban. i mean, we have stuff like bug type...trappers (goth, dugtrio and wobb are all very threatening to offense and stall alike) and such, and you want to ban thunderus incarnate...who...basically never really does anything but stop a sweep and attempt it itself(rarely being able to do both at once might i add) from what i've seen, thundy just isnt worth banning in a meta that's focused on setup sweeping. if anything, id say a suspect on quiverdance and tail glow(possibly limiting both/either to one per team or something) should take precedence...since THAT stuff can actually threaten ALL types of teams. stall and offense alike. and is unpredictable. and in doing such, would limit thunderus seeing how it would have less reason to be used. but thats just my 2 cents.
I've faced thundurus once and he is powerful. However I don't have enough experience with him to say anything definitive about him.
by the way, what happened to cube and charix suspects?
by the way, what happened to cube and charix suspects?
Keldeo with a Bug is pretty deadly, quiver dance/tail glow boosts can quickly make Keldeo strong enough to knock through almost any wall. Whatever survives his Hydro pump dies to Secret Sword. Bug Buzz gives him a super effective against grass and psychic. Mega Venusaur is basically the only thing that can wall because of its giga drain. Keldeo was already known for wall breaking in Ou but Typemons brings it to a whole new level
Aight as resident rainmaster and the only one to use water (to my knowledge) I want to speak on a couple things. CharX i think is entirely fine as though its typing is pretty baller its speed tier is lackluster in this format and vcreate does it no favors in this regard. Yes it hits like a truck, but it leaves you really vulnerable to countersweeping/setup. Thundy MIGHT be banworthy, but atm I think it's just amazing, not broken, as its just a really good utility mon/pivot for the most part. Keldeo however I think deserves a suspect, as on bug its pretty damn amazing, stopped by little besides flying/psychic/electric scarfers, ditto, and tflame. On water, specs keldeo destroys almost anything. I have played against a lot of teams where keldeo coming in meant them sacking something, straight up:
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 351-414 (49.8 - 58.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
that's ridiculous. Granted this only works on dedicated water teams, but I've been using one for a while and it works damn well. Keldeo becomes an OU kyogre with water typemons. In other typemons it "merely" gets bonus coverage, boosting moves, switching moves (volt switch, u-turn specs keldeo) and secret sword destroys most special walls.
Shadow tag: get this the hell out of here, I think. Nobody has tried perish sets far as I know yet but they can exist and they are bullshit, along with things like quiver dance goth, spore/dark void goth, double stag teams with parting shot, etc etc etc. Yes this means wobb too (because it can get really stupid lets be honest). I may be against banning stag in ubers but this ain't ubers and that aint fair. needs to go imo.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 351-414 (49.8 - 58.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
that's ridiculous. Granted this only works on dedicated water teams, but I've been using one for a while and it works damn well. Keldeo becomes an OU kyogre with water typemons. In other typemons it "merely" gets bonus coverage, boosting moves, switching moves (volt switch, u-turn specs keldeo) and secret sword destroys most special walls.
Shadow tag: get this the hell out of here, I think. Nobody has tried perish sets far as I know yet but they can exist and they are bullshit, along with things like quiver dance goth, spore/dark void goth, double stag teams with parting shot, etc etc etc. Yes this means wobb too (because it can get really stupid lets be honest). I may be against banning stag in ubers but this ain't ubers and that aint fair. needs to go imo.
Last edited:
This. Barring the detail about the perish sets which are banned since perish song is normal type, I completely agree with this statement. Shadow Tag and Arena Trap are really deadly and basically force most players to run momentum on everything which severely limits options. Trapping with dark void/parting shot is especially bullshit since these types of strategies can effectively set up on almost the entire metagame with no issues whatsoever. I don't think Shadow Tag and Arena Trap are healthy at all, and if anything these abilities should be the first to be suspected.
Given the replay posted on the first page, ban Shadow Tag and Arena Trap.