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Camomons
- Thread starter mezomi
- Start date
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
i strongly agree with asterat and that was my first thought about this meta from the beginning. Nothing can pack the coverage to hit the number of defensive threats available, and many defensive typings are so good that you need just absurdly strong moves to hit them, while in well made teams they can switch to the appropriate pokemon to sponge the only super effective hit you have, or steel/ghost mega aggron to sponge any physical attack that isin't ground or fire type. Either way, this meta isin't one i particularly look forward too...I am looking more at sketchmons or something for OM next month.
I don't really think this meta will favor stall that much. Defensive Pokemon do get better defensive typing, but I think that it is balanced out by getting to choose your STAB moves for offensive Pokemon. Getting good defensive typings is hard for stall Pokemon. In your examples, Mega Aggron has to use two moves on Shadow Claw and Iron Head to get that Ghost and Steel typing and Blissey has to run Dazzling Gleam to get Fairy typing. Defensive Pokemon would rather use the moveslots on more useful moves. Defensive teams will have a hard time finding good Steel types since Iron Head, Flash Cannon, and Bullet Punch are basically the only good Steel moves. However, I still think stall will at least be viable in this meta which you can't say about a lot of Other Metas. I think this meta does have the potential to be more diverse than the other metas because this meta is not just about slapping Shell Smash, Extreme Speed, and Boomburst on everything. This meta actually seems to encourage some creative teambuilding which is why I'd like to see it as the next OMotM.
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Stall is looking hella promising in this OM. Just look at this abomination that I've created:
Dragon / Steel (Gyarados-Mega) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Iron Head
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
This thing is the literal definition of a tank. With it's fantastic typing and great moves in
Iron Head and Dragon Tail, it's going to eat up hits all day and hit you very hard in return
with it's great STAB attacks. Works excellently on teams that utilize lots of hazards for
effective phasing.
EDIT: mezomi Also, are Pokemon like Aegislash / Deoxys-S and D banned, even though they were banned before the creation of this OM?
Dragon / Steel (Gyarados-Mega) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Iron Head
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
This thing is the literal definition of a tank. With it's fantastic typing and great moves in
Iron Head and Dragon Tail, it's going to eat up hits all day and hit you very hard in return
with it's great STAB attacks. Works excellently on teams that utilize lots of hazards for
effective phasing.
EDIT: mezomi Also, are Pokemon like Aegislash / Deoxys-S and D banned, even though they were banned before the creation of this OM?
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That sounds cool, but you can do Dragon Tail + Iron Head with Kyurem-B (if it doesn't get banned) and Dragonite too and both of them have the advantage of having Roost and Leftovers for reliable recovery. Dragonite also has Multiscale which makes it that much harder to take down. I think Dragonite's Parashuffling set could be very good in this meta.Stall is looking hella promising in this OM. Just look at this abomination that I've created:
Dragon / Steel (Gyarados-Mega) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Iron Head
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
This thing is the literal definition of a tank. With it's fantastic typing and great moves in
Iron Head and Dragon Tail, it's going to eat up hits all day and hit you very hard in return
with it's great STAB attacks. Works excellently on teams that utilize lots of hazards for
effective phasing.
Hopefully this replay will prove to people that stall is not unbeatable. If Red Cat's Kyurem had STAB on earth power I'm certain I would've lost.
I mean, stall gets some nice toys, but the things that offense get are very intimidating if designed correctly. Not to mention you can't know exactly what counters what due to the fact that you have no idea what your opponent will be running STAB on.
I mean, stall gets some nice toys, but the things that offense get are very intimidating if designed correctly. Not to mention you can't know exactly what counters what due to the fact that you have no idea what your opponent will be running STAB on.
I made a ton of misplays in that battle too. I probably could have killed his Avalugg with Mega Heracross earlier in the game if I would have used Rock Blast. For some reason, I thought it was Normal / Steel, Poison / Steel, or Ghost / Steel and went for Earthquake. Of course, a big part of this meta is just trying to figure out what the typing of a Pokemon is. My Landorus almost 2HKOed his Chansey and I presume he was using a Calm nature because Landorus does 48.5% minimum to Normal type 4 HP / 252 SpD Bold Chansey with STAB Focus Blast. So there is no shortage of stallbreakers out there in Camomons. You just have to play well
Edit: Ban Shedinja. The only ways to stop it if it gets BPed a sub are Mold Breaker, Phazing, or Sand / Hail.
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Yeah, I think Shedninja will have to be banned (as I said earlier). While I still have not gotten the chance to battle yet Dark/Poison/Ground is looking to be a really great offensive type combination in this meta. It hits Fairies, Steels, and Ghost types which will be the most common defensive types used. Disappointingly, there are only two notable users, Landorus and Mew. Both are great however. One thing that Red Cat said stood out to me.
"However, I still think stall will at least be viable in this meta which you can't say about a lot of Other Metas. I think this meta does have the potential to be more diverse than the other metas because this meta is not just about slapping Shell Smash, Extreme Speed, and Boomburst on everything. This meta actually seems to encourage some creative teambuilding which is why I'd like to see it as the next OMotM." (I don't know how to quote specific sections of a post)
Really, is it such a bad thing if stall is better than offense in this meta (which I don't think it is)? Just about every meta I've seen promotes offense as the only viable playstyle (besides Pacifistmons because you cant attack). Is stall being usable in a metagame enough to make it bad. Having multiple playstyles make any metagame or tier diverse and fun. Like, I said before, one battle does not prove anything.
"However, I still think stall will at least be viable in this meta which you can't say about a lot of Other Metas. I think this meta does have the potential to be more diverse than the other metas because this meta is not just about slapping Shell Smash, Extreme Speed, and Boomburst on everything. This meta actually seems to encourage some creative teambuilding which is why I'd like to see it as the next OMotM." (I don't know how to quote specific sections of a post)
Really, is it such a bad thing if stall is better than offense in this meta (which I don't think it is)? Just about every meta I've seen promotes offense as the only viable playstyle (besides Pacifistmons because you cant attack). Is stall being usable in a metagame enough to make it bad. Having multiple playstyles make any metagame or tier diverse and fun. Like, I said before, one battle does not prove anything.
The problem of making offense even slightly less viable in comparison with stall is that annoys people because they can't kill a defensive threat, and as you can see by the fact of Metagamiate winning this moth OMOTM people are extremely biased when it comes to offensive play so they can get a little bit in a bad mood, either way this actually sounds like an incredible balanced meta( we'll see how Shedinja handles), the fact that stallmons might need to run a not very useful move to change it's type makes it more fair( see almost anything that wants to be Ghost/Steel) and some offensive mons can completely ditch its mediocre/ awful typing almost all Dragon that have a fire move can work more or less like Zard x, Zard Y can get the amazing Fire/Grass Stab coverage, we have Stab Boltbeams and Ghost/Fighting or Fairy/Ground this meta seen pretty easy to get into and I bet it will change a lot has set will be discovered.
EV
Banned deucer.
One of the great tools at the creator's disposal is a little thing called the ban. If something should get out of hand, the creator has uncontested authority to enact one. Of course, the more popular OMs often set up councils so multiple players can give input and discuss the pros and cons of such an action. But I agree with mezomi that there's nothing wrong with a metagame being predominately defense-oriented or offense-oriented, though I'd like to think the creator would cultivate an environment where lots of playstyles can flourish so more people play and enjoy the game.
Also, on the topic of Dark/Poison/Ground, there are more than 2 notable users. The following all have access to the combination with stats and abilities to mark them as notable offensive threats:
Also, on the topic of Dark/Poison/Ground, there are more than 2 notable users. The following all have access to the combination with stats and abilities to mark them as notable offensive threats:
- Bulky attackers:
- Gliscor - Dark/Ground typing would be preferred to gain Poison Heal recovery
- Tangrowth - Regenerator bulky pivot
- Conkeldurr - Guts variants won't mind losing their status orb from enemy Knock Offs
- Seismitoad - Water Absorb is nice with Ground-typing
- Escavalier - Drill Run will have to work over EQ. Overcoat still good
- Sweepers/wall breakers:
- Sharpedo - Speed Boost is a good ability, but no KO sadly
- Primeape - Also doesn't have KO, but Defiant is nice and can still use Punishment or Fling
- Lucario - Crunch, Poison Jab, EQ, Swords Dance. Misses that Espeed tho
- Sawk - Mold Breaker for Levitators trying to avoid those EQs
- Pangoro - Outclassed by Sawk except for Parting Shot
Guys, if you want me to ban something I'll ban it. I don't exactly know what I'm doing though, so I will defiantly need some help. I intended for this meta to be balanced and a do hope it turns out that way. Just to be clear I am not biased towards stall in any way. This was something I forgot to mention earlier but just because only certain types can be used doesn't make this meta bad either. Of course the bad types wont be used just as the bad abilities wont be used in Almost Any Ability. The same can be said about almost any metagame.
OR
Landorus (T) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force/Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
Naive/Hasty Nature
-Knock Off/Poison Jab/Earth Power
-Knock Off/Poison Jab/Earth Power
-Knock Off/Poison Jab/Earth Power
-Focus Blast/Earthquake/other random coverage move
There is probably something better but meet the ultimate wallbreaker. The reason I mentioned Mew and Landorus is because they can go mixed and Landorus has Sheer Force as seen here. This Landorus absolutely wrecks the Pokemon mentioned by asterat. Poison Jab hits Chansey and Cresselia, Earth Power hits Mega Aggron, and Knock Off is for the Ghost Normal types that are guaranteed to be everywhere. The last slot can be whatever you want it to be (EXPLOSION!) but I chose Focus Blast to hit Steels that are immune to Ground.
Landorus (T) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force/Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
Naive/Hasty Nature
-Knock Off/Poison Jab/Earth Power
-Knock Off/Poison Jab/Earth Power
-Knock Off/Poison Jab/Earth Power
-Focus Blast/Earthquake/other random coverage move
There is probably something better but meet the ultimate wallbreaker. The reason I mentioned Mew and Landorus is because they can go mixed and Landorus has Sheer Force as seen here. This Landorus absolutely wrecks the Pokemon mentioned by asterat. Poison Jab hits Chansey and Cresselia, Earth Power hits Mega Aggron, and Knock Off is for the Ghost Normal types that are guaranteed to be everywhere. The last slot can be whatever you want it to be (EXPLOSION!) but I chose Focus Blast to hit Steels that are immune to Ground.
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I would just use the standard Landrous-I Sheer Force set with Earth Power and Focus Blast as the STABs because STAB Focus Blast is stupid powerful.Guys, if you want me to ban something I'll ban it. I don't exactly know what I'm doing though, so I will defiantly need some help. I intended for this meta to be balanced and a do hope it turns out that way. Just to be clear I am not biased towards stall in any way. This was something I forgot to mention earlier but just because only certain types can be used doesn't make this meta bad either. Of course the bad types wont be used just as the bad abilities wont be used in Almost Any Ability. The same can be said about almost any metagame.
OR
Landorus (T) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force/Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
Naive/Hasty Nature
-Knock Off/Poison Jab/Earth Power
-Knock Off/Poison Jab/Earth Power
-Knock Off/Poison Jab/Earth Power
-Focus Blast/Earthquake/other random coverage move
There is probably something better but meet the ultimate wallbreaker. The reason I mentioned Mew and Landorus is because they can go mixed and Landorus has Sheer Force as seen here. This Landorus absolutely wrecks the Pokemon mentioned by asterat. Poison Jab hits Chansey and Cresselia, Earth Power hits Mega Aggron, and Knock Off is for the Ghost Normal types that are guaranteed to be everywhere. The last slot can be whatever you want it to be (EXPLOSION!) but I chose Focus Blast to hit Steels that are immune to Ground.
As for dealing with potential bans and stuff, we need people to actually test stuff in this meta since it is such a unique concept. Right now, we're basically making assumptions off of two battles. I think we should form a group of people who are interested in this meta to test things in actual battles to determine what is good, bad, and overpowered in this meta. Because right now all we have is a lot of theorymoning.
canno
formerly The Reptile
I think Earth Power and Sludge Wave should be used for the STABs instead of Focus Blast due to the high amount of potential Fairy-types running around. I know you miss out on a stupidly strong Focus Blast, but I still think Sludge Wave is the way to go for STAB (Focus Blast is still best coverage though).
And I agree with letting the meta develop before doing any bans.
LOL (Shedinja) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Wonder Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance
- Bug Bite
Well shit.
List of Counters:
Mold Breaker 2 hits(1 with Lum Berry)
Status 2 hits(1 with Focus Sash)
Spikes and Stealth Rock
Beat Up.
Dark Type 2 hits(1 with Lum Berry)
There. 5 things.
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Not to mention weather and rocky helmet. It'd still suck to be honest, due to people preparing for it, and there being better tanks.
LOL (Shehonestly) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Wonder Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance
- Bug Bite
Well shit.
List of Counters:
Mold Breaker 2 hits(1 with Lum Berry)
Status 2 hits(1 with Focus Sash)
Spikes and Stealth Rock
Beat Up.
Dark Type 2 hits(1 with Lum Berry)
There. 5 things.
Oh right i forgot how broken Dugtrio, Excadrill and Tyranitar will be in sand.
Peeps have already basically pointed this out, but, with all the Ghost, Steel, and Fairy types, those aforementioned types suddenly become less potent since they don't need defense against the plethora of types against which the defend in normal play. Ghost could almost be a burden if everything else also has a Ghost typing. Fire, Ground, and, to a lesser extent, Fighting, are appealing to hit all of the Steels. If this meta ever gets underway, it could go through a lot of diverse waves of development since typings can be so easily changed. So y'all need to get it underway!
porygon-z @ focus sash/life orb
Ability: adaptability
EVs: 252 Spa/4 Spd/252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Nasty Plot
- Agility
Electric / ice
4MSS, begone! coverage AND stabs are now a thing! (focus sash if for garunteed 1-turn setup, life orb for sheer power). sinple: set up and sweep. still kinda slow and frail though.
Ability: adaptability
EVs: 252 Spa/4 Spd/252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Nasty Plot
- Agility
Electric / ice
4MSS, begone! coverage AND stabs are now a thing! (focus sash if for garunteed 1-turn setup, life orb for sheer power). sinple: set up and sweep. still kinda slow and frail though.
Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Earth Power
- U-turn
Fire/Dark typing gets rid of its weakness to Fairy, Dragon, Bug, and Ice, while still being immune to Ground thanks to Levitate. It's now weak to Water and Rock, but pretty good overall. STAB Fire Blast hits hard, too, making Hydreigon the newest sun team member.
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Roost
- Focus Blast
I feel this is pretty self-explanatory. Sets its own sun, and then proceeds to wreck with STAB sun-boosted Fire Blast and STAB Solar Beam. Focus Blast is there for coverage, and Roost provides valuable healing.
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Earth Power
- U-turn
Fire/Dark typing gets rid of its weakness to Fairy, Dragon, Bug, and Ice, while still being immune to Ground thanks to Levitate. It's now weak to Water and Rock, but pretty good overall. STAB Fire Blast hits hard, too, making Hydreigon the newest sun team member.
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Roost
- Focus Blast
I feel this is pretty self-explanatory. Sets its own sun, and then proceeds to wreck with STAB sun-boosted Fire Blast and STAB Solar Beam. Focus Blast is there for coverage, and Roost provides valuable healing.
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Air Slash is really bad coverage, especially without stab. You should run roost over air slash.