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Resource Don't Use That, Use This Instead
- Thread starter xzern
- Start date
- Status
Don't use this:
Tyrone (Camerupt) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Eruption
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Fire Blast
Why it's bad: tbh xzern is literally suggesting the worst possible mon's. pokemon that don't even perform the role they're trying to. if you wanted to use this set you should probably be running max speed as opposed to hp and running a boosting nature seeing as ur trying to wallbreak and hit hard before you die to a seismitoads bubble. also tyrone is literally the worst fucking nickname ever.
Use literally any other fire type in the tier instead (like these two!):
Typhlosion @ Choice Specs
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Extrasensory
Magmortar @ Life Orb
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 20 Atk / 252 Spd / 236 SAtk
Rash Nature
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Earthquake / Psychic (drop atk ev's into spatk and run modest/timid)
Why they're better: they're actually decent mon's that have the ability to get past common walls to special attacking fire types, i.e. dragalge, hariyama, probopass. they're running optimal ev spreads for the set's theyre running (unlike the camerupt set which got outsped and hit before it could use eruption) these mons are also faster than camerupt as well giving them the ability to hit pokemon in the tier hard that camerupt would die before attempting to damage. also, they weren't suggested by xzern so that makes them 1000% better.
I'd like to apologize for my previous comments but jesus christ they're justified this thread is shit, so i can't do that. if you want to save this thread i'd start by suggesting mon's that people with half a brain actually use. You might want to add some background as to what the mon's purpose is as well because that changes which mon's you should suggest to replace it. the early posts in this thread correcting ev placement on mon's are the only good ones. the OP is even misleading and extremely bad, the two mon's fulfill completely different roles on a team, neither set you have suggested are the most common or even most optimal and for god's sake the only reason to use a mantine is defog and you forgot that part.
tl:dr this thread is cool in theory but the execution is sub par
EDIT: you've also suggest a meowstic set that has nothing wrong with it, like what do you want them to suggest an inferior screen setter...
Tyrone (Camerupt) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Eruption
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Fire Blast
Why it's bad: tbh xzern is literally suggesting the worst possible mon's. pokemon that don't even perform the role they're trying to. if you wanted to use this set you should probably be running max speed as opposed to hp and running a boosting nature seeing as ur trying to wallbreak and hit hard before you die to a seismitoads bubble. also tyrone is literally the worst fucking nickname ever.
Use literally any other fire type in the tier instead (like these two!):
Typhlosion @ Choice Specs
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Extrasensory
Magmortar @ Life Orb
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 20 Atk / 252 Spd / 236 SAtk
Rash Nature
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Earthquake / Psychic (drop atk ev's into spatk and run modest/timid)
Why they're better: they're actually decent mon's that have the ability to get past common walls to special attacking fire types, i.e. dragalge, hariyama, probopass. they're running optimal ev spreads for the set's theyre running (unlike the camerupt set which got outsped and hit before it could use eruption) these mons are also faster than camerupt as well giving them the ability to hit pokemon in the tier hard that camerupt would die before attempting to damage. also, they weren't suggested by xzern so that makes them 1000% better.
I'd like to apologize for my previous comments but jesus christ they're justified this thread is shit, so i can't do that. if you want to save this thread i'd start by suggesting mon's that people with half a brain actually use. You might want to add some background as to what the mon's purpose is as well because that changes which mon's you should suggest to replace it. the early posts in this thread correcting ev placement on mon's are the only good ones. the OP is even misleading and extremely bad, the two mon's fulfill completely different roles on a team, neither set you have suggested are the most common or even most optimal and for god's sake the only reason to use a mantine is defog and you forgot that part.
tl:dr this thread is cool in theory but the execution is sub par
EDIT: you've also suggest a meowstic set that has nothing wrong with it, like what do you want them to suggest an inferior screen setter...
Last edited:
You could set out to cripple things and force things into struggle with...
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Glzsi2LCNY3sW/KM5W17XtpetFqzNQ9EI9ZIP4km5JLE9WZiWZj5kkk+ZpQUrWVilfDSgUMo8a7g4fdc/HyEEEEggggg2KsDcMCNQQdiKyzY4DauZiJsxqcY/ZCUuC2uQOd/tVsLiLDEAEq2yzKo1NtlkA1K9QCw0uFkfMvBVxcBiNlcHNGxF8kgBAPoQSp8mNfn5JGUhkYo6m6sNCrDVSPQ1d/LHGJcZAJ4p4W1ysjQuskbgC6SWmIzdbgAEEEaEVi1FXjlmPRbVPcsMp7i/Dmid0ZSjKSGHVW30P0IPUEEVIMdzOMbh4YZmjhki0JclIZdMucOL5Dt3T5jXcT3mHlRsXYyyxq6ggFISCRY2Ry0hzICb6WIOxFyDVXMXLs+Ea0qEITo470ZvsA9tD5NY+VWJwvjtnwym6rhr0yY8PwkMcSorqwUfNmXvE6sxsbakk+9QnmR0OJcxsHWy3KkEZgoB1GhtoK5RjHVR9BX1V9dOx5yZ41qLyhSlYTMLm177dQPa9Xt4LDdwJXtYy5AUSoSTsLOpufKpNx9cHDirxTK0QHak5ldnkfNdVVbtYXDHTQ2HjaEO5NbvBeBz4p+zw8TSG9i20abfO57q6G9tyNgayX1qbUm8JHfGpdrLPvjPEziHVVUhQbItru7sco0G7G9govv1vYXF8N+UzgoGeUD7RLYvsezUfLGCNDa5JI6sdSADXxyTyDFgiJpSJ8T0a1kiuLERg9baFjqdbZQSKmdZLLE1tj0aq69opSlUlopSlAKUpQGge9iv7OH2Jle1/UCI/364nxIP+xgeMyX9rn+YFdzAm8s5tqJFX2EMbD9XNR34nNfBMgYI+YSAkXypEwaRrbnQ5QOrSIOt67HiSZx9EI5Ync4+KGJ+zZs6tJZWKfdM9kDadoVUkXBAtcg6Aybn/AIekMWHEa2XtXBJJZ2do82ZnYksxCG5JJNhVd8s8SGGmgkY6RyqzuT0buzOf4Gc1b3xAwubAu+l4mWXXYKptIfaNmPtWm2LjamyEWnHgrKtfFT5RWKbiCjbWudNOWNbYwZTKaXR9yYk1gLmvK8q1IpbbPaV5SunD2s2A4xNhJO3wz5HtYjdHUahXU6MN7dRc2IuawVqY6QDqF0sCfE7evpVdiTi0yUO+C/YOPyskTJHHiRKiunZMUkKOL53jcFY0HUmTpYAmwPUgw8jEtM4IIt2SgGIXFjmZhmkO+vdG3dvrVYcjc8Jh4Vw//hsqIN5EdWLt1du2yEk+RIAsBYaCYL8QoLfsMQPK0P8AlLXleOX0bco1eYvh1hnBkgQwN1WI2Ww/LGQUX2AqET8lvfu4gejRm/1Df5VMZvipANBhcTfz+zgfVZWP6Vg4Tj5uJvI8cKYWJNDJmMjyOdcoGUKhC2JJzfMu9za1O6CzzghiDeCFPyZP/SRH3cf9NepyPId50X0Rn/6lqcyYN4u6wa/idb+d9vYVrYrECNS7X06Dckmyqo6sTYAeJqPmn9kvHH6OHw/lHDoSXLTkHUOQEBsDbKoFxYjRi29WHyGwEM0SAKkWIKqo0C5oopiAOnekJ96hs2LXDxZ52Ckkk21LObsUQbtbYeS61z+S/iIYJXTFLeCWQvmUXeEkBbEAXkTKBruLaXBAWO2c1ns7mMeC56VhweKSVFlidZEYXVlIZWHiCNDWaqiQpSlAKUpQClKUBzoNMRMv5ljk9yGjI9hGPqK4fFuHjFs8ZKlJWeG/zWiiicMR4MMSwv49kvhXd4k/Zuk5NlW6OSbBUexzn0ZV1OgVmPSuXwonPg26vg5pG8C8kmFdj65mb6mgKOngZGaKQWdWKOOmZSVYC+4uD61dHInFVxnDxHJ33RewlB1LALYMfHOlifPMOlRf4qcukN/4hEt1IAnt+EgWWY+VrKx6WU7ZiIjyzx58FOJkGZSMsiXt2iX210zDdSetxsTXozXnryu0ZY/85YfRq8W4a2Gmkwz6tG2W/wCZd0f+JSD5Xt0rUqw/iI+ExWFj4jFOge2UKdJJUGrRBPm7VCSbW0uwO4IrjMx2AA8SdfoP9aupt3x57IThtZkpWPI3VvoAP53rzI3RvqoP8iKsyQMtSXlbkqbGx9ssiQxZmUMwMjsUbK1owRYXBFyw9CLGord/BT6Eg/Qj/OulwPmOfCMWgkMWYgsjjNE5tYZhe17W1RgdAL2Fqrt3OPw4ZKGM8lnYD4YYRNZXmxHkX7NAfIRBWt5FjXN535Yw+EVcVh4liBbJIF8wcri+o1FiP6wPQ3+cJ8VwB9/hG9YXVr/wyZcv941w+e+fkxkccMMUqIGzuXEeYsAQqAK7aC5JPjl86xRjZvW7JpzHb8TjT8R/LetR8Wx3Nc048flY/wB3/M10TgnOFjxYMeWSZ48t2Mi5FJLMLW8NM2zr7bd0FwUNTZisxIVRmdiFUfmdiFRfdiB71f8Ay/wpcLho8MpvkWxa1s7nV3PmzEn3qi+CY77PiIsQU7XsyWCZsgZspC3OU2AYhtt1FdvifP2NluFkXDr4RKAxHgzvma/muWqb652NJdEq5RisstPmHjuGwyf7S4BIuqfNI+oHdQakXI12F9SKpnj/AB6TEy51vAik9miMcy3FszOLEuQTtoAbC+pPLa5JYkszaszEs7Ha7M2rHzJpUq9NGPMuTkrm+jTxob9oxLkfiYl2sN9WJO168rdIrPh+WMWcOmJSBpojmGaL703RzGQyL373U7KR51OajA5HMj65d5oxGAYyQNdD3nib9nJbf9x7aZh5XzAWq+OF8wRSlUP3Uh2RvxaX+7bZ9ATYa23Ar8/cO4U8832exU/jv3WRDoSQdb72Hj5AkWm6gixW48LeBuPpWLUbc8GirOOSxaVFOEcUlQxo5Mqu4UKx++AOmZTvIi6E31AzHMbBaldZiwUpSgFKUoD5dAQVIBBFiDqCDuCOorhcdnXDy4aQL3TngCjQAMiyiw20EH61365fMuEMmGcIMzrZ1HUshzZR4Fhdf4qA+oOIROPnGu4bT21qs+Nclwtj0wuCly5gZJUtnTDRi2qtfqSAsZ2zXuFAFZuOcVEGHMwsxOURjozObL/DrmPkDWT4Oi8mMdmzPlhuTv3mnLMfUj/DV9e6MXNMrnhtRZD+asDDDi2w8IOWEBC7ZS8khVXkkZgBc6qttAOz0A1vy63eYJs+MxLKcynESkN0IMjFcviLW1+l60q9GpfBGWf5MUpSrCApSsc0ltOtHwdRrTL0U2t03X6dPasEr9CLfyPoaz0K30OtUNZLU8GpXR4bfs21OUSaL0DlE7RvUqsY/gFc+SPLruv1I/1FdbD6RRr5Zj6ucw+gsPaowj8kSnL4nte0pWozilK8oBVsfBzGZsNNCTrHNmA8EkRSP8ayVU9Tr4PYnLjJov6TD5v9zIAP+cazaqOa/wBFtLxItnEYZJBaRFceDKGH0NaX/wDP4Xf7LB/uo/8ASulSvLNhgwuCjiFoo0jB3CKqg/QVnpSgFKUoBSlKAUpSgKu+I/DciTEW7NOycDqpnxGWxHgCjBSDtLawygmO/DOZXxxgc2ikQgrpaaWLvqjeKAdoSOpFjcaGxebsN2sGPisC7RxCLbWQn/Zwb9O2/mapfDO0ZUoWjeNhbo6OjdQfxBhqD1BBrZp1vrlAote2SkS74p8M7LG9sB3Z0zX1/aRhUceA0yHzufCofVwRzQ8a4eyXEU6EEjcwzgHKwH4o2FxcbqWGjA2qbH4KSGVoJkySIdR08mU/iU9D19bgaNNZlbH2iq2PO5dMwV7XlY5Jbbb1obwVHsslvWtYmvqNGdgiK0jnZUVnc+iqCT7CpLgfh9xCQX+z9mDt2jovuVBLD3FUTsS7ZbGL9EYrypsPhZxDxw3+9k/+qtHi/IOMw0TTSiIqtvkkvcsQqgZlGpJAqHlh9ktkvoi2Uscg3I1P5R4/6f8A7W8K6+DwCxx2axO7tsCep8gOnlXHxDhmIT5PzeP7v+v0vuLoMhOJ9UrylWlZ7SvKXoBXZ5Q40uDxaYh1ZkAZHy6sFe12A/FYgG3gDa5sK4TTAedaxxGY22Ph/n5iq7NrW1k45TyfqHDTrIiyIwdGUMrKQVZSLggjcEVkqm/hTzWYZRgZW+5kb7sk/s5mOi/uuT/eP9Y2uSvJnBweGbIy3LIpSlQJClKUApSlAKUpQHA47DaaJ7HLK8KMRc2aKcSxX/KLGW58co6iol8SOT2dmxuGQs1rzRrqzWH7SMdWsNVG9gRrcNPOPxFsO5VS7JllVRoWeF1lRfdkA965Y5lBAKpcEXBvoQdjU65uDyiMoqSwykuGcRkhkWeCQo42ZbEEHdWGzKfA+AO4BE7fmPA8SiWPiAGFnQHLMuiDxyub5VNrlJNNtSQCNvmPhWHxbGQx9jKd3jsGb98HuvsNSL22IqH4jkuYfJNG/wC8Gj09s1a5W12cvhlKhOPHaMHEeW5lJMBTFR30eMi5HiVJ09AWrNylyTNi5ykgaCKOxkYrZtdkjvoWIB11C6Eg3AOtHyXiM1yYV8Tne/8Awa1a3wxwIgwskNwzrO2dgCMzMkbAm+9kKrf+r7VCy6SXEsko1rPR3uC8Dw+ETs8PEsY6kasxAtd3Pec+ZJro0pWQuFcfmXgC4xEjaV4sj5wUyanKV1DKRsxrsUrqeAU/8RuW8PhIYEVpJJWkLFpGuWSNCD3FAjHekQ3CjYVB6nnxexV8VHF+SEH0Lu+YfRE+oqB16mmz48sx3fkKkHKnKUuOzmN0jSMhSzAtdiL5Qo3IFibkfMvtHmawJOwF6v3krg/2XBRQsLSWzyf2j95hfrlvlHkormptcI8dsVQUnyRLD/C2JFLz4qR8oJIjVYlIAJ1zZzb0IqoIHYopY6lRf1trX6V5nnyYLEyflw8rf3YmNfm0VRROUs7mWWRSxgVZHwj4FDiI8WZ4llRjEgDC9iudjlO6nvLqD0HhVb1dPwZwuXANJ/S4h2HoqpD/ADjNS1DxAVr5HM4v8J7Etg58o6Ry5tD0yzJ3lHqrHzqxOELKIIhiCpmEaiQpfIZAozFbgaE67Vt0rHKcpLDLlFLoUpSoEhSlKAUpSgFKUoBUB4hgzBM0NrIbtEehjJ1QeGQnLb8pTxqfVpcX4as8eRjlIOZWG6ONmH1II6gkdaAhF6+b0lSSN+ymTJIPD5HH5o26jxG63FxqCfL1I6e1s8M4g0EmdRmUgB00uwF7Fb6Bhc22BvY9CNWlATrh3FYpx904YjdTo6/vIe8vuNa3arWWBWtmUNbUXANj4i+1buBaMEK4Zy2ipmdr9SFjvr4nTQb6VzBwm322PP2XaLnP4cwzbE7b7A/Q1nrmcM4blIcqqZVKxxrYLGptcm2hc2F7aAaDqW6MsgVSxNgAST4AC5rgKI56xna46dgbgSFfTs7QkfWMn3rgVKcVyPxBj2phSQv3zkkQG7943EmWxuT4+tYF5Hx2VneFYVUXJkkjIsBc2EJdj6W9K9Su2uMEsmOcJOT4Pr4fcF+1Y1A37OG0r+Byn7tPK7667hHFXpUZ+H/LxweEAkAE8hzy21sSO7GD4Kunmcx61Jqw32b559GmuO1YORzhDn4fjIxu2FmXx3hYV+ca/UGJhDo0Z2ZSp9CLGqSk5NR0Vo3aFioup+8RW/EBqG3uNzUqLFHOTlkXLohbsACTsBc+gr9Hcn8POHwOHhIsywrntt2jDNJ/iJqosHyFKZoEkZGjkmVW0bvIAZJBYi2saN16ir1pfYpYSOVxa7FKUrOWilKUApSlAKUpQClKUApSlAYMbg0lQxyKHU9D0PQg7gjoRqKjuJ5TIN4ZrL+SRc9vJXBDAfvZjUppQEHbgWKG8Uba/glJ08TnRbfrX0OA4o2tHEB1zysCPQJGwP1FTaldyCMYflVjrLPYfljUL6gu+a49ApruYDhkUP7NApOhbVnI6Zna7N7mtulcArm8x64aRNu0Ah9DM4hB/wAddKtHjMLPEAq5iJYntcAkRzJIbX0vZTbzoDZy1zYbzy5hb7PGdDreWZSdfDs06b3fXTIC3rRyz91lOHh/EpKmaTyuhKxpbwJY3/BbXqRxhQFUBVAsABYADQAAbCug+qUpXAK43C4FWSaEqLrIZFJ1LRzEve/lJ2i26BV8RXZrVxmCDlXDNG63AdcuYK1sy94EFTYaEdAdxQGjhvvcW7j5MOvZDcAyyBZJDbY5UEYDDq8g6GuxWvgMGsKCNBYAk6m5ZmYs7MerMxJJ6kmtigFKUoBSlKAUpSgFKUoBSlKAUpSgFKUoBSlKAUpSgFKUoBSlKAUpSgFKUoBSlKAUpSgFKUoBSlKAUpSgP//Z
Meowstic (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Trick
- Thunder Wave
- Torment
- Psychic
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nubeta-142507198 In this battle meowstic is able to cripple the biggest wall on his team, finish off a paralyzed sawk, and paralyze the Accelgor before dying. It wasn't the biggest player of the team but it did work well to cripple many things on my opponents team.
Last edited:
CanadianWifier
Run Away With Me
but.. that's not a better use of Meowstic. You've suggested a worse set - the Priority Dual screens set is the best set it can run.
But to be fair, the question shouldn't have been asked, cause there isn't a better alternative out there for you to suggest..
Last edited:
I think I got one.
Don't use this:
Masquerain @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP/ 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sticky Web
- Quiver Dance
- Baton Pass
- Air Slash
Masquerain isn't sure what it wants to be. Is it a Suicide Sticky Web user? Is it a Quiver Dance threat? The trouble is that it's outclassed in all of these roles. As a Quiver Dance threat, it's outclassed heavily by Vivillon. Props to it for being the only thing that can Baton Pass Quiver Dance, but the base 65 speed leaves a lot to be desired, and is outclassed by a variety of things as a Baton Passer (Ninjask, Whirlipede, Musharna, etc). It's also completely outclassed as a Sticky Web user by...
Use this instead:
Leavanny @ Focus Sash
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sticky Web
- Magic Coat
- X-Scissor
- Toxic/Leaf Blade
Say hello to NU's best Sticky Web user. With a solid speed tier of 92, Leavanny is all but guaranteed to get a Sticky Web out. Magic Coat means that it has an answer to your opponent's Hazards, and gives it a way to avoid being Taunted. In addition to being faster than Masquerain, it's also slightly bulkier, and takes less damage from Stealth Rock. Pokemon that are quad-weak to grass, like Relicanth, Seismitoad, and even Rhyperior tend to stay away from it. Finally, Swarm + Focus Sash + X-Scissor has decent synergy, and give you a possible offensive option against common leads like Liepard.
Don't use this:
Masquerain @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP/ 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sticky Web
- Quiver Dance
- Baton Pass
- Air Slash
Masquerain isn't sure what it wants to be. Is it a Suicide Sticky Web user? Is it a Quiver Dance threat? The trouble is that it's outclassed in all of these roles. As a Quiver Dance threat, it's outclassed heavily by Vivillon. Props to it for being the only thing that can Baton Pass Quiver Dance, but the base 65 speed leaves a lot to be desired, and is outclassed by a variety of things as a Baton Passer (Ninjask, Whirlipede, Musharna, etc). It's also completely outclassed as a Sticky Web user by...
Use this instead:
Leavanny @ Focus Sash
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sticky Web
- Magic Coat
- X-Scissor
- Toxic/Leaf Blade
Say hello to NU's best Sticky Web user. With a solid speed tier of 92, Leavanny is all but guaranteed to get a Sticky Web out. Magic Coat means that it has an answer to your opponent's Hazards, and gives it a way to avoid being Taunted. In addition to being faster than Masquerain, it's also slightly bulkier, and takes less damage from Stealth Rock. Pokemon that are quad-weak to grass, like Relicanth, Seismitoad, and even Rhyperior tend to stay away from it. Finally, Swarm + Focus Sash + X-Scissor has decent synergy, and give you a possible offensive option against common leads like Liepard.
All of the Sticky Web users have some niche that warrants use (even Ariados). That said, they need optimal movesets in order to be able to maximise their odds of either keeping offensive momentum or just ensuring their Webs stay down. Sticky Web Masquerain shouldn't be QuiverPassing imo since Sticky Web renders the speed pass redundant, it should have Hydro Pump (or Giga Drain) in order to destroy opposing leads (especially SR leads), or even do a little holepunching alongside its STABs if need be after it has set up Web so that your sweepers can clean up. Granted, it is very difficult to lay down Web, Quiver, and attack before Masquerain gets KOed, although occasionally it doesn't even need to set up Web so that burden can be relieved for it to start attacking.I think I got one.
Don't use this:
Masquerain @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP/ 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sticky Web
- Quiver Dance
- Baton Pass
- Air Slash
Masquerain isn't sure what it wants to be. Is it a Suicide Sticky Web user? Is it a Quiver Dance threat? The trouble is that it's outclassed in all of these roles. As a Quiver Dance threat, it's outclassed heavily by Vivillon. Props to it for being the only thing that can Baton Pass Quiver Dance, but the base 65 speed leaves a lot to be desired, and is outclassed by a variety of things as a Baton Passer (Ninjask, Whirlipede, Musharna, etc). It's also completely outclassed as a Sticky Web user by...
Use this instead:
Leavanny @ Focus Sash
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sticky Web
- Magic Coat
- X-Scissor
- Toxic/Leaf Blade
Say hello to NU's best Sticky Web user. With a solid speed tier of 92, Leavanny is all but guaranteed to get a Sticky Web out. Magic Coat means that it has an answer to your opponent's Hazards, and gives it a way to avoid being Taunted. In addition to being faster than Masquerain, it's also slightly bulkier, and takes less damage from Stealth Rock. Pokemon that are quad-weak to grass, like Relicanth, Seismitoad, and even Rhyperior tend to stay away from it. Finally, Swarm + Focus Sash + X-Scissor has decent synergy, and give you a possible offensive option against common leads like Liepard.
Leavanny, on the other hand, should have Leaf Storm over Leaf Blade; it strikes almost all bulky leads harder. Leaf Storm in particular annihilates Rhydon and Sandslash, which can otherwise cleave through Leavanny with Rock Blast or spam Rapid Spin to keep Sticky Web off the field, respectively. Never mind the Special Attack drop, since Leavanny would rarely go on the offensive more than once (it'd probably be sacced at that point), and Leavanny can still use its physical options, like Shadow Claw for Xatu. I'd actually steer away from X-Scissor tbh, since without it Ditto would be at a complete disadvantage against Leavanny.
Last edited:
Maybe I'm biased because of my love for Masquerain, but intimidate and scald (which you didn't put, so perhaps this is moot) in addition to its fighting-resist are not bad. Anyway, against the most common spinner, Sandslash:I think I got one.
Don't use this:
Masquerain @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP/ 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sticky Web
- Quiver Dance
- Baton Pass
- Air Slash
Masquerain isn't sure what it wants to be. Is it a Suicide Sticky Web user? Is it a Quiver Dance threat? The trouble is that it's outclassed in all of these roles. As a Quiver Dance threat, it's outclassed heavily by Vivillon. Props to it for being the only thing that can Baton Pass Quiver Dance, but the base 65 speed leaves a lot to be desired, and is outclassed by a variety of things as a Baton Passer (Ninjask, Whirlipede, Musharna, etc). It's also completely outclassed as a Sticky Web user by...
Use this instead:
Leavanny @ Focus Sash
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sticky Web
- Magic Coat
- X-Scissor
- Toxic/Leaf Blade
Say hello to NU's best Sticky Web user. With a solid speed tier of 92, Leavanny is all but guaranteed to get a Sticky Web out. Magic Coat means that it has an answer to your opponent's Hazards, and gives it a way to avoid being Taunted. In addition to being faster than Masquerain, it's also slightly bulkier, and takes less damage from Stealth Rock. Pokemon that are quad-weak to grass, like Relicanth, Seismitoad, and even Rhyperior tend to stay away from it. Finally, Swarm + Focus Sash + X-Scissor has decent synergy, and give you a possible offensive option against common leads like Liepard.
252 Atk Leavanny Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sandslash: 168-200 (47.4 - 56.4%) -- 28.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Masquerain Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sandslash: 306-362 (86.4 - 102.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Actually, not sure why you gave it 252 HP with a sash, but the previous calc is with 252 SpA. I mean, I don't know how common special Sandslash is, but that's the most common set according to the calc usage.
as stated before, leavanny should always be running leaf storm > leaf blade which does
252 SpA Leavanny Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sandslash: 458-540 (129.3 - 152.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
and also has the ability to hit lead seismitoad, in essence you've literally taken the point of this thread (changing used yet lack luster sets, to better ones) and tried to do the opposite...
Hmm. I guess. But Intimidate is still a decent enough niche imo to make it not completely outclassed.
This thing somehow gets more usage than Ferroseed. WTF?
Don't use:
Slaking @ Choice Band
Ability: Truant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Hammer Arm
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
Sure, Slaking may have stats equivalent to that of Ubers. Sure, its Attack is higher than that of Deoxys-N. So why is Slaking bad? One word: Truant. This is an extremely exploitable ability, as all you have to do is use Protect or predict a move and switch into something that resists it. It gets worn down very easily because of this, and the only way to remove its ability is to use Yamask, and any smart player will not try to use contact moves to get mummified. The worst part about Slaking is that it is massive setup bait because of Truant which can turn the tide away from you.
Use this instead:
Tauros @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Rock Climb
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt
- Fire Blast
Tauros is less suspicable to Protect shenanigans that stop Slaking in its tracks, allowing it to have more chances of breaking through its opponent. Sheer Force is an excellent ability for Tauros, as it will not take LO recoil damage from moves with secondary effects, thus making it harder to wear down. Better physical Normal-types aren't just limited to Tauros. Kangaskhan has access to priority in Sucker Punch, Zangoose has Toxic Boost Facade, Swellow also has Facade as well as Flying-type coverage, Bouffalant works well in Trick Room, and even niche stuff like Linoone, Ursaring, Sawsbuck, Dodrio, Purugly, Stoutland, and Persian all have things that make them stand out more than Slaking.
Don't use:
Slaking @ Choice Band
Ability: Truant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Hammer Arm
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
Sure, Slaking may have stats equivalent to that of Ubers. Sure, its Attack is higher than that of Deoxys-N. So why is Slaking bad? One word: Truant. This is an extremely exploitable ability, as all you have to do is use Protect or predict a move and switch into something that resists it. It gets worn down very easily because of this, and the only way to remove its ability is to use Yamask, and any smart player will not try to use contact moves to get mummified. The worst part about Slaking is that it is massive setup bait because of Truant which can turn the tide away from you.
Use this instead:
Tauros @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Rock Climb
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt
- Fire Blast
Tauros is less suspicable to Protect shenanigans that stop Slaking in its tracks, allowing it to have more chances of breaking through its opponent. Sheer Force is an excellent ability for Tauros, as it will not take LO recoil damage from moves with secondary effects, thus making it harder to wear down. Better physical Normal-types aren't just limited to Tauros. Kangaskhan has access to priority in Sucker Punch, Zangoose has Toxic Boost Facade, Swellow also has Facade as well as Flying-type coverage, Bouffalant works well in Trick Room, and even niche stuff like Linoone, Ursaring, Sawsbuck, Dodrio, Purugly, Stoutland, and Persian all have things that make them stand out more than Slaking.
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Please mention Slaking's worst flaw: it is setup fodder; any Pokemon can set up literally without fear on a Truant turn which would turn the tides and shift momentum easily.This thing somehow gets more usage than Ferroseed. WTF?
Don't use:
Slaking @ Choice Band
Ability: Truant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Hammer Arm
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
Sure, Slaking may have stats equivalent to that of Ubers. Sure, its Attack is higher than that of Deoxys-N. So why is Slaking bad? One word: Truant. This is an extremely exploitable ability, as all you have to do is use Protect or predict a move and switch into something that resists it. It gets worn down very easily because of this, and the only way to remove its ability is to use Yamask, and any smart player will not try to use contact moves to get mummified.
Use this instead:
Tauros @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Rock Climb
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt
- Fire Blast
Tauros is less suspicable to Protect shenanigans that stop Slaking in its tracks, allowing it to have more chances of breaking through its opponent. Sheer Force is an excellent ability for Tauros, as it will not take LO recoil damage from moves with secondary effects, thus making it harder to wear down. Better physical Normal-types aren't just limited to Tauros. Kangaskhan has access to priority in Sucker Punch, Zangoose has Toxic Boost Facade, Swellow also has Facade as well as Flying-type coverage, Bouffalant works well in Trick Room, and even niche stuff like Linoone, Ursaring, Sawsbuck, Dodrio, Purugly, Stoutland, and Persian all have things that make them stand out more than Slaking.
Yep. Slaking is a very one-dimensional pokemon. Slaking's only potentially useful role in all of pokemon is in doubles w/cofagrigus. Have cofagrigus hold ring target, and slaking use power up punch on it. This will remove slaking's truant and replace it with mummy, and raise it's attack one stage. Of course, any good player will see that coming from a mile away, so good luck ever pulling it off effectively. Slaking really shouldn't be used... ever. You should use ANYTHING ELSE instead of slaking.
Gigalith @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rock Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam
Gigalith, while having its niche in gen 5 NU, is no longer as viable; Custap Berry Explosion lead is now impossible with Custap Berry being illegal in gen 6. Additionally, single Rock typing leaves it vulnerable to Volt Switch pivots such as Rotom, Probopass, Raichu, and Lanturn. Gigalith also has a lackluster physical movepool, using moves that can all be used better by other pokemon.
Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Megahorn
Unlike Gigalith, Rhydon has an extra Ground typing, granting it an immunity to Electric moves, stopping volt switch users in their tracks. Furthermore, ground typing allows Rhydon to hit hard with STAB earthquake, swiftly dispatching of walls like Probopass and Steelix. With a large(r) physical movepool, Rhydon has options like megahorn, aqua tail, fire punch, etc. With access to eviolite, Rhydon also has the bulk to withstand hits from sweepers like Zangoose and Gurdurr.
The Goomy
Whitest Mexican Alive
Gigalith @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rock Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam
Gigalith, while having its niche in gen 5 NU, is no longer as viable; Custap Berry Explosion lead is now impossible with Custap Berry being illegal in gen 6. Additionally, single Rock typing leaves it vulnerable to Volt Switch pivots such as Rotom, Probopass, Raichu, and Lanturn. Gigalith also has a lackluster physical movepool, using moves that can all be used better by other pokemon.
Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Megahorn
Unlike Gigalith, Rhydon has an extra Ground typing, granting it an immunity to Electric moves, stopping volt switch users in their tracks. Furthermore, ground typing allows Rhydon to hit hard with STAB earthquake, swiftly dispatching of walls like Probopass and Steelix. With a large(r) physical movepool, Rhydon has options like megahorn, aqua tail, fire punch, etc. With access to eviolite, Rhydon also has the bulk to withstand hits from sweepers like Zangoose and Gurdurr.
While I think it is fair to say Rhydon is better than Gigalith, I think that they serve completely different roles.
Gigalith is basically only used as a lead (as you said in the OP), whereas Rhydon is good throughout the game.
Therefore, comparatively I think it would make more sense to suggest this as a better Suicide lead:
Archeops @ Focus Sash
Ability: Defeatist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Endeavor
- Head Smash
Archeops has the ability to prevent hazards as well as get up valuable Stealth Rock for its team. In addition access to Endeavor lets Archeops cripple opposing team members, and Head Smash lets it beat Defoggers. Idk, I just think this is a more direct correlation to Gigalith than Rhydon, which isn't a suicide lead. :S
Would Liepard over Murkrow be eligible for this kind of thing?
The thing is, aside from Dusknoir (Which was already covered by ScraftyisTheBest) not much things above 2% in raw stats are really outclassed. Maybe you could make a case for stuff like Electrode and Kingler but that's it really.
I don't play NU that much, but I run the RU version of this thread so I might as well respond to this. Usually, the more interesting and helpful entries in these threads are the ones that point out inferior sets or individual moves on a Pokemon and suggest another move or set on the same Pokemon, which there are plenty of examples of and are about things that have a lot more people using them. To use an example from RU, over half of all Doublade (the most common Pokemon in the tier) run Sacred Sword, which is almost always inferior to its other moves for various reasons. Since Doublade is so common, an entry about not using Sacred Sword on it would be much more useful and more likely to help someone out by letting them know that they are running an inferior set and help them make their team better (which is the entire point of these threads, otherwise they'd be nothing more than a glorified way to complain about usage stats), whereas the 1% of ladder players who use Ninjask would be a lot less likely to visit the forums and even see the information that is being directed at them (not to mention the fact that there are a lot less of them in the first place). As I said before, I don't play NU, so I don't know of any relevant examples, but I'm sure there are plenty of possible entries that would be much more helpful than telling people who are likely just playing for fun that their mon is bad (they usually don't even care; if they cared enough they would see that their garbage mon was bad by looking at the viability rankings before they would see it here anyway). It should be easy to find good examples just by looking through the moveset statistics.
also xzern why did you use the logo from my thread when whimsicott isn't even NU lol
edit @ below then why don't you just ask an artist to make you a logo or banner with something relevant to NU :o
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Found this while looking through raw stats:
+----------------------------------------+
| Feraligatr |
+----------------------------------------+
| Raw count: 86569 |
| Avg. weight: 0.999879215967 |
+----------------------------------------+
| Abilities |
| Torrent 100.000% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Items |
| Life Orb 38.894% |
| Lum Berry 30.789% |
| Leftovers 12.260% |
| Mystic Water 3.128% |
| Assault Vest 3.041% |
Don't use this:
Feraligatr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Torrent
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Aqua Jet
- Frustration
Why it's bad: At first glance, Feraligatr may look like a good Assault Vest candidate with it's decent attack stat and good bulk. However, unlike, say, AV Azumarill in OU, Feraligatr lacks support moves like Knock Off, and Gatr can also boost its stats. A major rule with Assault Vest is that you never put it on something that can set-up. (Sure some good Assault Vest users such as Escavalier, Slowking and Conkeldurr in higher tiers can boost their stats, but what they gain through Assault Vest is more important than a boosting move, but not in Gatr's case. It's already bulky enough to survive a lot of Grass-type moves anyways (Or if you're cool and use Rindo Berry))
Instead, use this:
Feraligatr @ Lum Berry / Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Swords Dance
- Return / Ice Punch
Why it's better: If you want to use Feraligatr as a bulky attacker, the classic Gatr Time set works much better than Assault Vest. Unlike the good AV users I mentioned before that can boost, Feraligatr actually has decent speed. Also, it can boost its power further with Life Orb or absorb status with Lum Berry, both of which AV Gatr can't do.
Also, AV Typhlosion and AV Pyroar are things some people actually use seriously. Wow............ (If you don't believe me look at the raw NU moveset stats) This was a rather quick one to do, but the fact this was above 2% usage made me want to do it anyways.
And to those wondering I don't think Frustration on Gatr is bad. It is a viable option simply because of stuff like Ditto really.
+----------------------------------------+
| Feraligatr |
+----------------------------------------+
| Raw count: 86569 |
| Avg. weight: 0.999879215967 |
+----------------------------------------+
| Abilities |
| Torrent 100.000% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Items |
| Life Orb 38.894% |
| Lum Berry 30.789% |
| Leftovers 12.260% |
| Mystic Water 3.128% |
| Assault Vest 3.041% |
Don't use this:
Feraligatr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Torrent
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Aqua Jet
- Frustration
Why it's bad: At first glance, Feraligatr may look like a good Assault Vest candidate with it's decent attack stat and good bulk. However, unlike, say, AV Azumarill in OU, Feraligatr lacks support moves like Knock Off, and Gatr can also boost its stats. A major rule with Assault Vest is that you never put it on something that can set-up. (Sure some good Assault Vest users such as Escavalier, Slowking and Conkeldurr in higher tiers can boost their stats, but what they gain through Assault Vest is more important than a boosting move, but not in Gatr's case. It's already bulky enough to survive a lot of Grass-type moves anyways (Or if you're cool and use Rindo Berry))
Instead, use this:
Feraligatr @ Lum Berry / Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Swords Dance
- Return / Ice Punch
Why it's better: If you want to use Feraligatr as a bulky attacker, the classic Gatr Time set works much better than Assault Vest. Unlike the good AV users I mentioned before that can boost, Feraligatr actually has decent speed. Also, it can boost its power further with Life Orb or absorb status with Lum Berry, both of which AV Gatr can't do.
Also, AV Typhlosion and AV Pyroar are things some people actually use seriously. Wow............ (If you don't believe me look at the raw NU moveset stats) This was a rather quick one to do, but the fact this was above 2% usage made me want to do it anyways.
And to those wondering I don't think Frustration on Gatr is bad. It is a viable option simply because of stuff like Ditto really.
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This is kind of just a general "don't use this move" more than it is "don't use these Pokemon," though Dusknoir kind of sucks.
Dusknoir @ Leftovers | Pressure
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD | Bold Nature
Substitute / Pain Split / Will-O-Wisp / Infestation
Cradily @ Leftovers | Storm Drain
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD | Calm Nature
Recover / Giga Drain / Toxic / Infestation
I've been laddering a decent amount over the past week or so, and during this time, I've seen a lot of usage of the move Infestation. I'm not sure what happened this gen to make people think that partial-trapping moves are suddenly good, but it definitely happened. The problem with moves like Infestation is that they don't do anything except for get some passive damage on the opponent and force them to stay in. While you might be able to get one surprise kill in a game, you miss out on much more valuable support or even better Pokemon by using this move. But you're not even guaranteed a kill with it. The opponent might have recovery to keep them alive, or they might be able to break through your Pokemon, either taking it out or forcing you to switch out and ending the Infestation. And this doesn't even cover the worst case scenario: the opponent has Substitute and uses you as complete setup fodder, sweeping through your entire team because you gave them two free turns.
Instead of using Infestation, you should be using sets like these:
Rotom @ Leftovers | Levitate
248 HP / 172 Def / 88 Spe | Bold Nature
Will-O-Wisp / Pain Split / Volt Switch / Shadow Ball
Cradily @ Leftovers | Storm Drain
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD | Sassy Nature
Recover / Giga Drain / Stealth Rock / Rock Slide
As I said earlier, Dusknoir isn't a very good Pokemon. It's really weak and offers little utility outside of a bulky spinblocker. For that reason, I went with an entirely different Pokemon to fill the bulky Ghost-type role. Rotom is a pretty cool defensive pivot, and it can spread burns and offer momentum for balanced teams with Volt Switch. As for Cradily, it is actually a fine Pokemon. I haven't used it at all this gen, so I don't even know if it should be running specially defensive, physically defensive, or some mixed spread. Either way, this set is about as good as it gets. Unlike the Infestation spread, you can actually retaliate against most non-Steel-type Pokemon, and you get Stealth Rock support, which is crucial for nearly every good team. If you really like Toxic, you can still run that as well.
Gourgeist is another option for a solid bulky Ghost-type if Rotom isn't your thing. It offers the passive damage from Leech Seed that Infestation users love, so it might be better suited their needs. Something like Leech Seed / Will-O-Wisp / Seed Bomb / Protect works well for it.
Dusknoir @ Leftovers | Pressure
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD | Bold Nature
Substitute / Pain Split / Will-O-Wisp / Infestation
Cradily @ Leftovers | Storm Drain
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD | Calm Nature
Recover / Giga Drain / Toxic / Infestation
I've been laddering a decent amount over the past week or so, and during this time, I've seen a lot of usage of the move Infestation. I'm not sure what happened this gen to make people think that partial-trapping moves are suddenly good, but it definitely happened. The problem with moves like Infestation is that they don't do anything except for get some passive damage on the opponent and force them to stay in. While you might be able to get one surprise kill in a game, you miss out on much more valuable support or even better Pokemon by using this move. But you're not even guaranteed a kill with it. The opponent might have recovery to keep them alive, or they might be able to break through your Pokemon, either taking it out or forcing you to switch out and ending the Infestation. And this doesn't even cover the worst case scenario: the opponent has Substitute and uses you as complete setup fodder, sweeping through your entire team because you gave them two free turns.
Instead of using Infestation, you should be using sets like these:
Rotom @ Leftovers | Levitate
248 HP / 172 Def / 88 Spe | Bold Nature
Will-O-Wisp / Pain Split / Volt Switch / Shadow Ball
Cradily @ Leftovers | Storm Drain
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD | Sassy Nature
Recover / Giga Drain / Stealth Rock / Rock Slide
As I said earlier, Dusknoir isn't a very good Pokemon. It's really weak and offers little utility outside of a bulky spinblocker. For that reason, I went with an entirely different Pokemon to fill the bulky Ghost-type role. Rotom is a pretty cool defensive pivot, and it can spread burns and offer momentum for balanced teams with Volt Switch. As for Cradily, it is actually a fine Pokemon. I haven't used it at all this gen, so I don't even know if it should be running specially defensive, physically defensive, or some mixed spread. Either way, this set is about as good as it gets. Unlike the Infestation spread, you can actually retaliate against most non-Steel-type Pokemon, and you get Stealth Rock support, which is crucial for nearly every good team. If you really like Toxic, you can still run that as well.
Gourgeist is another option for a solid bulky Ghost-type if Rotom isn't your thing. It offers the passive damage from Leech Seed that Infestation users love, so it might be better suited their needs. Something like Leech Seed / Will-O-Wisp / Seed Bomb / Protect works well for it.
Give me an alternative to this:
Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Giga Drain
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Giga Drain
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Fire]
I love running Water / Normal teams and whenever I face Cradily with those I die a little inside. Not exactly the best, but most definitely worth using.
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Fire
Lilligant outclasses Serperior when it comes to boosting and sweeping with a purely offensive spread. Lum Berry is there to guard against status, which is what Substitute is mostly good for anyways. You get Sleep Powder, so you have a lot more setup opportunities, and you become faster than Serperior after the initial boost. She also hits significantly harder off the bat.
If you want the advantage over Lilligant you might want to do a little bit of EV shifting and make it more durable. Serperior is most definitely bulkier, which I guess is the merit in its SubCM set. But with that frail spread, he isn't going anywhere, and the minor increase in bulk isn't as good as Sleep Powder when it comes to free turns to set up.
Lilligant @ Lum Berry
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Fire
Lilligant outclasses Serperior when it comes to boosting and sweeping with a purely offensive spread. Lum Berry is there to guard against status, which is what Substitute is mostly good for anyways. You get Sleep Powder, so you have a lot more setup opportunities, and you become faster than Serperior after the initial boost. She also hits significantly harder off the bat.
If you want the advantage over Lilligant you might want to do a little bit of EV shifting and make it more durable. Serperior is most definitely bulkier, which I guess is the merit in its SubCM set. But with that frail spread, he isn't going anywhere, and the minor increase in bulk isn't as good as Sleep Powder when it comes to free turns to set up.
Fire Types AND Dragon Types wall your set; and, with Fire Spam becoming so common, your set is even worse. It's better to run Hidden Power ROCK instead as it covers its weaknesses better. (Flareon would wall your set to hell and back and is the best in my opinion due to Physical Fire-Type and gargantuan special defense; and Dragalge fears nothing.) Although you don't have the ability to hit Ferroseed, you lack a lot of coverage without it. Rock hits Flying, Ice and Fire Types that would otherwise bulk a Giga Drain. Serperior also gets access to Taunt, which is always helpful in any situation, especially for stuff that tries to wall or set up on you (AUDINO)
Personally, I think that Serperior is outclassed by Simisage as a setup sweeper. Simisage has the ability to boost its special attack faster than Serperior, also has access to Overgrow for Giga Drain, and can run three moves because of it. It doesn't need to require Substitute to be effective.
Here's a set I recommend using:
Simisage @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Rock]
Why it's better: The reason why I think it's better because it doesn't require Substitute to set up effectively; Hence, like most Nasty Plot sweepers, it can use three moves. This set only gets resisted by Croagunk and Honedge (the only pokes allowed in the Neverused Tier and are both BAD?) and that it provides neat coverage against threats. It can take on the Ferroseed/Seismitoad core with Focus Blast and Giga Drain, respectively; It also has the ability to outspeed Typhlosion by one base point (amazing feat, considering many of them nowadays run Specs instead of Scarf) and that it generally dents walls better than Serperior AND Lilligant without having to worry about coverage. With focus Blast, it can dent steel types that attempt to wall this set. Giga Drain is staple. Hidden Power [Rock] is chosen because it finishes off its almost-perfect coverage and to take out slower threats. Overgrow is amazing on this set to gain back all its HP with a 1.5x boost, which is neat. This poke works like Sceptile but it has the ability to set up in the face of its opponent. It also finds a rather easy time setting up due to its coverage as well and that it can do a lot of damage if unprepared. If it were up to me, it also outclasses Sceptile for the same reasons. It also hits harder than Serperior after a few boosts as well with a naturally higher attack set and a very decent speed stat; meaning that it can outspeed stuff like Serperior. It does have a little trouble with status; but it is able to run a Lum berry if that's a problem. It'll dent, or even sweep unprepared teams if you play it correctly.
Although Lilligant gets Sleep Powder, it's very predictable now-a-days and due to its two-move coverage, many people have answers to it. (e.g. HP Fire = fire types, HP Rock = steel types). In Simisage's case, many people switch out to an appropriate threat thinking that it'll just Giga Drain. Nasty Plot becomes the suprise factor that can rip through teams and that its speed is rather hard to come past. Also, it can OHKO Swellow on the switch with HP rock, meaning that it has one less threat. It can also take out threats that would think they can wall it, such as most steels; whereas Lilligant struggles to take out WHOLE TYPES in its coverage.
Personally, I think that Serperior is outclassed by Simisage as a setup sweeper. Simisage has the ability to boost its special attack faster than Serperior, also has access to Overgrow for Giga Drain, and can run three moves because of it. It doesn't need to require Substitute to be effective.
Here's a set I recommend using:
Simisage @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Rock]
Why it's better: The reason why I think it's better because it doesn't require Substitute to set up effectively; Hence, like most Nasty Plot sweepers, it can use three moves. This set only gets resisted by Croagunk and Honedge (the only pokes allowed in the Neverused Tier and are both BAD?) and that it provides neat coverage against threats. It can take on the Ferroseed/Seismitoad core with Focus Blast and Giga Drain, respectively; It also has the ability to outspeed Typhlosion by one base point (amazing feat, considering many of them nowadays run Specs instead of Scarf) and that it generally dents walls better than Serperior AND Lilligant without having to worry about coverage. With focus Blast, it can dent steel types that attempt to wall this set. Giga Drain is staple. Hidden Power [Rock] is chosen because it finishes off its almost-perfect coverage and to take out slower threats. Overgrow is amazing on this set to gain back all its HP with a 1.5x boost, which is neat. This poke works like Sceptile but it has the ability to set up in the face of its opponent. It also finds a rather easy time setting up due to its coverage as well and that it can do a lot of damage if unprepared. If it were up to me, it also outclasses Sceptile for the same reasons. It also hits harder than Serperior after a few boosts as well with a naturally higher attack set and a very decent speed stat; meaning that it can outspeed stuff like Serperior. It does have a little trouble with status; but it is able to run a Lum berry if that's a problem. It'll dent, or even sweep unprepared teams if you play it correctly.
Although Lilligant gets Sleep Powder, it's very predictable now-a-days and due to its two-move coverage, many people have answers to it. (e.g. HP Fire = fire types, HP Rock = steel types). In Simisage's case, many people switch out to an appropriate threat thinking that it'll just Giga Drain. Nasty Plot becomes the suprise factor that can rip through teams and that its speed is rather hard to come past. Also, it can OHKO Swellow on the switch with HP rock, meaning that it has one less threat. It can also take out threats that would think they can wall it, such as most steels; whereas Lilligant struggles to take out WHOLE TYPES in its coverage.
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