3v3 Singles Metagame Discussion Thread

EnGarde

Not Dead Yet
That is kinda what I have been doing. I have pretty much two separate 3-man teams. One is a quick pass Scolipede with two receivers (Whom are counters to what I have trouble with in BP) and the other team is a Geomancy Smeargle BPing to Espeon. I usually go with the Smeargle/Espeon team unless I see a certain 4 or 5 specific Pokemon. Talonflame is a huge problem for me.
I'm not an expert on BP teams, but I would imagine that the geomancy smeargle is a problem. By running geomancy, smeargle needs to hold power herb, which makes smeargle prone to OHKOs because no focus sash. Is that your problem? Because that's what I'd be worried about.

If you want to keep smeargle, I'd recommend toning down to quiver dance (which lets you hold focus sash), and since this is battle spot, make sure your smeargle has moody to try and drum up some good moody boosts to pass to espeon (stat drops below 0 don't drop the power of stored power, if that's what you're using with espeon to attack--which you should), which gives you a reason to stall a bit with spiky shield.

Truthfully, though, I'd focus on pairing scoli and espeon, since those 2 have more synergy. Try to get +2 defense +2 speed from scoli to espeon, set up a bit with calm mind, and then wipe the board with stored power. Have a third that can receive from either espeon or scolipede, or that also has baton pass and can heal up the other 2 with wish (like vaporeon or sylveon).

As for talonflame: good counters include rotom-w and rotom-h, zapdos (part of dEnIsSsS's original BP team) as well as ttar (though your teammates have to watch out for sandstorm damage there). You could lead with a counter if you see talonflame in team preview.

Lastly, have you read up on the different types of bp teams from the OU world? (they've since been banned, but ehh) Here is a link to the original iteration, and there is a lot of information in this thread discussing the effectiveness of baton pass after the nerf.

EDIT: Just found dEnIsSsS's RMT for the 1-man bp team. Linking that as well, in case someone else want to try and modify a BP team for battle spot. :)
 
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I used to run lead Smeargle a lot in singles, for months, in fact. Generally speaking, it would depending on your ranking as to how people would react to seeing him. The vast majority of people will assume you have Spore or DV with a Sash, as the vast majority of Smeargles (in singles) do. People on higher rankings will generally only go for the kill if they have a backup for spore (maybe a heal bell Chansey or a grass pokemon lead) so you'll find you lose more often to lower ranks, who will just go for the kill, not being that experienced at fighting against him. It's very rare in this meta to not have a counter something like Smeargle, primarily because of his shitty defense and speed, not to mention weakness to Mach Punch.

It's all the luck of the draw, but I have a strong feeling that he would lose out more often than not due to 3 factors. First, Smeargle's speed is not great at base 75 and he needs to not only outspeed the lead pokemon, but whatever is sent out assuming a switch. Second, due to singles being only 3v3 and by nature, if you lose one of those you are already a long way behind, it's very heavily populated by 'safe' leads. That is to say, leads fast leads and volt switch/heavy powered nukes or even trick/taunt - making it hard for you to predict what comes next. Thirdly, a huge amount of your success will depend on Smeargle's remaining 3 moves. For example, if you run king's shield, you can cripple their physical lead's attack which gives you the longevity to get off your combo, if he runs spore and they have no grass but then opens with a slow pokemon, you can get off your combo and a free swap.

Ultimately, I can't see it doing very well simply because of the meta in singles right now. Lead Smeargle can be quite good, and a huge pain in the ass but without sash, there's just won't be enough opportunities to set up and of the times that you are able to, too many of them will be countered since they will see the BP coming as soon as you Geomancy and unless you can control that, you'll likely lose.

Both HP Rock Heatran or a Thundorus can help against talon and work quite well with +2 speed/spa BP.
 
I'm not an expert on BP teams, but I would imagine that the geomancy smeargle is a problem. By running geomancy, smeargle needs to hold power herb, which makes smeargle prone to OHKOs because no focus sash. Is that your problem? Because that's what I'd be worried about.

If you want to keep smeargle, I'd recommend toning down to quiver dance (which lets you hold focus sash), and since this is battle spot, make sure your smeargle has moody to try and drum up some good moody boosts to pass to espeon (stat drops below 0 don't drop the power of stored power, if that's what you're using with espeon to attack--which you should), which gives you a reason to stall a bit with spiky shield.
Honestly Smeargle was never my problem. My three man team is more based off of Denissss's one man baton pass team than his previous iterations (three and six man BP teams). Screens+Memento ensures he's living just about anything short of Mega Lucario Close Combat or an untimely crit. If I were to drop the power herb and switch to QD I'd switch to a mental herb as I have lost to taunt. Usually I'm able to Geomancy on their switch/feeble attempt to attack, Spore whatever comes out (Because at +2 I outspeed everything), and go to town setting up.

You do have a great point about using Moody on Smeargle. Honestly I forgot he even had that as his hidden ability. I'll Pokegen one and swap it out right away!

As for talonflame: good counters include rotom-w and rotom-h, zapdos (part of dEnIsSsS's original BP team) as well as ttar (though your teammates have to watch out for sandstorm damage there). You could lead with a counter if you see talonflame in team preview.
Currently using Ttar as my Talonflame counter. While I did give Zapdos a shot, I felt he was rather underwhelming as all he could do was contribute special defense boosts via Charge and counter Taloneflame/Mega Pinsir. Maybe I can give one of the rotoms a shot, but I've been really pleased with the way Tyranitar has been working out thus far.

I used to run lead Smeargle a lot in singles, for months, in fact. Generally speaking, it would depending on your ranking as to how people would react to seeing him. The vast majority of people will assume you have Spore or DV with a Sash, as the vast majority of Smeargles (in singles) do. People on higher rankings will generally only go for the kill if they have a backup for spore (maybe a heal bell Chansey or a grass pokemon lead) so you'll find you lose more often to lower ranks, who will just go for the kill, not being that experienced at fighting against him. It's very rare in this meta to not have a counter something like Smeargle, primarily because of his shitty defense and speed, not to mention weakness to Mach Punch.

It's all the luck of the draw, but I have a strong feeling that he would lose out more often than not due to 3 factors. First, Smeargle's speed is not great at base 75 and he needs to not only outspeed the lead pokemon, but whatever is sent out assuming a switch. Second, due to singles being only 3v3 and by nature, if you lose one of those you are already a long way behind, it's very heavily populated by 'safe' leads. That is to say, leads fast leads and volt switch/heavy powered nukes or even trick/taunt - making it hard for you to predict what comes next. Thirdly, a huge amount of your success will depend on Smeargle's remaining 3 moves. For example, if you run king's shield, you can cripple their physical lead's attack which gives you the longevity to get off your combo, if he runs spore and they have no grass but then opens with a slow pokemon, you can get off your combo and a free swap.

Ultimately, I can't see it doing very well simply because of the meta in singles right now. Lead Smeargle can be quite good, and a huge pain in the ass but without sash, there's just won't be enough opportunities to set up and of the times that you are able to, too many of them will be countered since they will see the BP coming as soon as you Geomancy and unless you can control that, you'll likely lose.

Both HP Rock Heatran or a Thundorus can help against talon and work quite well with +2 speed/spa BP.
I don't lead with Smeargle. Like my reply above, with Dual screens/Memento I'm not to worried about getting Geomancy off. Never thought about using Heatran though, I'll have to mull over that one for a few hours and see what I come up with. Thanks!
 
Gen 6 has introduced a lot of new things, Faries, the Steel Nerf, easier accessible hidden abilities, new abilities, and of course, Mega Evolutions. This article is going to take a look at how the above have changed 3v3 from the gen 5 meta.

How Gen 6 Changed 3v3 Singles.

I haven't played years of GBU Singles, but I do remember seeing a hellalotta fighting types and dragon types. Latios, Heracross, Blaziken, and Hydriegon were top tier threats back in gen 5, but the introduction of fairies has significantly chopped the use of the aforementioned Pokemon. 3 of those were because of the introduction of fairy types. In singles, Azumarill and Mawile (mega) are the most common fairies, Gardevoir not that far behind. All 3 of those knock out Dragonite, Garchomp, Heracross, Hawlucha, Hydreigon, Latios, (sometimes) Latias, (the physical ones) TTar (Mega), Noivern, and Scrafty. This means and is proven to create a drop in the usage of these Pokemon, the last that were in gen 5 were decently popular in 3v3.
(maybe not Latias or Scrafty) My point is, the fairy type has really downsized the amount of Dragon, Fighting, and Dark types we see in today's 3v3, and weather you consider the steel nerf a factor or not, that's what happened.

Kangaskhan and Mawile weren't good at all last gen, give Mawile around 300 base Atk and Kanga's moves 1.5 damage, and they'll rise in usage a bit. The fact that Mawile has a solid typing also gives it an Advantage. Kangaskhan is probably the most used mega in 3v3, and that's for a reason. 100 speed, 100 defenses, 125 attack, 105 hp, and the fact that it can get +2 attack and still do damage is insane. Of course don't leave out Mega Gengar, Blaziken, and Gardevoir. Gengar has 130 speed, 150 Satk, and the ability to trap. Sub Gengar is an amazing way to annoy Kangaskhan, and play the Sucker Punch mindgame and Kanga can't even switch! Blaziken has 100 speed and 160 attack! It even still keeps Speed Boost. If you can eliminate any kind of flying or water priority, Mega Blaziken will easily take over. Gardevoir is the hardest hitting fairy special attacker, with an amazing 165 base special attack + pixilate.

The last thing I'm going to cover will be 3 new Pokemon that are thriving this year due to their new abilities.

Talonflame: The big bad ass birdy of gen 6, Talonflame has impacted and influenced the meta quite a lot. He's Mega Blaziken's biggest rival, the only thing is, with his new ability Gale Wings, he easily wins. Choice Banded Talonflame is one of the best Pokemon to either get early game damage or revenge kill. He's even more fearsome in this meta with the lack of Stealth Rock. Talon's worst checks and counters are Mega Kanga, Tyranitar, Garchomp, Landorus, other Talonflame, and Rotom.(W/H)

Greninja: This frog packs the new ability Protean, which changes Greninja's type to the type of the move it's using. This is great for the offensive purpose of unlimited STABs and the defensive purpose of switching types to avoid being hit with an SE attack. Blaziken, Talonflame, Mega Kanga, Mega Mawile, and Rotom are the most notable checks and counters, so beware of those if you're running the froggy.

Aegislash: Aegislash is a mon of many mysteries. 1st off, you have to determine if it's a sub set, physical set, or mixed set. After that, you have to be smart about it using King's Shield or hitting you with a powerful attack or setting up a sub. Its near deadly BST leaves it at 150 defense and attack. Anything you attack with or take from this spirit-sword is going to hurt. Its plethora of resistances also comes in handy, especially with trying to mindgame Mega Kangaskhan.
 

Feliburn

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You should also have in mind that sashed breloom also counters talonflame (If no SR that is), Ferrothorn is a good check on Mega Kangaskhan and well, Greninja pretty much dies to anything that survives its attacks or outspeeds, like a scarfed garchomp for example.
 

Hulavuta

keeps the varmints on the run
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Yo guys, I merged the thread with the above 2 posts into this one as this is the place for 3v3 discussion. If you want to do an official article on the subject, I'd recommend checking out the articles section of C&C and getting one approved there!
 
Yo guys, I merged the thread with the above 2 posts into this one as this is the place for 3v3 discussion. If you want to do an official article on the subject, I'd recommend checking out the articles section of C&C and getting one approved there!
It's fine here, my fault for not viewing the rules
 

Deleted User 220884

Banned deucer.
Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
- U-Turn
- Roost or Sleep Talk (??)

Yeah, I haven't played battlespot singles since August 2nd, but I have always had this question. When I was peaking around the 1700's singles format, Talonflame tend to run Sleep Talk for some reason. I think Generally for Breloom who usually Spores everything. I always go for rock tomb for Talonflame leads, but one time against a JPN kid I went for the spore, as one time I remember trying to Rock Tomb a Zard-Y, which missed making me in a bad situation. So I decided to spore in the probability of missing. He went for BB, and I spored him. Magically he had Sleep Talk..and went for the u-turn, before I was able to kill him. So is this possible with a choice band? (My talonflame won the game for me against his since, his was asleep. heh)
 
Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
- U-Turn
- Roost or Sleep Talk (??)

Yeah, I haven't played battlespot singles since August 2nd, but I have always had this question. When I was peaking around the 1700's singles format, Talonflame tend to run Sleep Talk for some reason. I think Generally for Breloom who usually Spores everything. I always go for rock tomb for Talonflame leads, but one time against a JPN kid I went for the spore, as one time I remember trying to Rock Tomb a Zard-Y, which missed making me in a bad situation. So I decided to spore in the probability of missing. He went for BB, and I spored him. Magically he had Sleep Talk..and went for the u-turn, before I was able to kill him. So is this possible with a choice band? (My talonflame won the game for me against his since, his was asleep. heh)
Not with a Choice band. Probably had a sharp beak.
 
Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
- U-Turn
- Roost or Sleep Talk (??)

Yeah, I haven't played battlespot singles since August 2nd, but I have always had this question. When I was peaking around the 1700's singles format, Talonflame tend to run Sleep Talk for some reason. I think Generally for Breloom who usually Spores everything. I always go for rock tomb for Talonflame leads, but one time against a JPN kid I went for the spore, as one time I remember trying to Rock Tomb a Zard-Y, which missed making me in a bad situation. So I decided to spore in the probability of missing. He went for BB, and I spored him. Magically he had Sleep Talk..and went for the u-turn, before I was able to kill him. So is this possible with a choice band? (My talonflame won the game for me against his since, his was asleep. heh)
Tailwind is probably the best filler move on a Talonflame, it's been quite popular recently and it works well when you need it
 

EnGarde

Not Dead Yet
I think sleep talk is good on a CB set, as talonflame can still switch in on breloom on the predicted spore and attack with sleep talk,and if breloom doesn't use spore on the switch, it can use BB and outspeed even mach punch. Checkmate.
 

SilentVerse

Into the New World
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Sleep Talk also makes Talonflame a more reliable answer to Mega Venusaur, since it lets you absorb that thing's Sleep Powder and possibly KO with CB Brave Bird, so it's a fairly solid option on CB sets which don't have too many good options in the last slot (Tailwind is ok, but since you can't switch moves it's harder to use effectively). For sets like Sharp Beak, I'd personally rather use Tailwind or Roost or even SD, since now that you can switch moves, you can use those moves much more effectively.
 
It's official. Moody Smeargle has lost me more games than he has contributed to. Accuracy drops and attack boosts are the WORST. It was fun getting an evasion boost that one time though... That ONE TIME.

Own tempo it is!
 

EnGarde

Not Dead Yet
It's official. Moody Smeargle has lost me more games than he has contributed to. Accuracy drops and attack boosts are the WORST. It was fun getting an evasion boost that one time though... That ONE TIME.

Own tempo it is!
Thanks for sharing. I would have thought that moody would've been beneficial, but I can see where the unpredictable nature of the boosts could end up being a double-edged sword. I'm curious about your BP team, so I'd be interested to hear how far it's able to take you. :)
 

Deleted User 220884

Banned deucer.
I have a moody smeargle, and I always get Evasion boosts. (i use this for doubles), aswell with the accuracy boosts, dark void spam. I ran into a moody Glalie a few days ago against a JPN kid. He lost badly because he didn't get the boosts he wanted (-speed, +sp.atk) like 3 times in a row. I guess your aint lucky, then again this game is practically hax. I have a Smeargle set for doubles, but I'm deciding to bring gimmick teams in the upper ladder on Battlespot, so I'm thinking of using my Moddy doubles smeargle for singles:

Smeargle Focus sash
Ability: Moody
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Darkvoid (Spore will be put here)
- Transform
-Filler --need an attacking move from being full taunt bait, any suggestions?

Its fun to play with moody, but getting the occasionaly crappy boosts might screw you the game, but I take the chances anyways.
 
I know this seems kinda gimmicky, but I've been using a sharpedo with the following set quite well

Sharpedo-life orb
Ability-speed boost
Nature-jolly
EVs-252atk 252speed 4hp
-protect
-destiny bond
-waterfall
-crunch

I haven't played a whole ton of 3v3 (cause 6v6 is waaaay better), but I'm currently in the high 1600s. the strategy is to send sharpedo out against something that I do not have a good matchup against or might be hard/annoying to take down (usually the opponents mega), then protect for the speed boost and to scout out their move, then destiny bond. No one expects it and I get to trade off the death of my sharpedo for their troublesome mega khan or chomp. It works about 80% of the time, but can get screwed up by Mach punch users (of which I've only faced conkeldor so far), choice scarf users (above base 95),and of course if they don't ohko you and your plan is revealed.
 
Thanks for sharing. I would have thought that moody would've been beneficial, but I can see where the unpredictable nature of the boosts could end up being a double-edged sword. I'm curious about your BP team, so I'd be interested to hear how far it's able to take you. :)
BP team is Smeargle, Uxie, Scolipede, Espeon, Tyranitar, and Togekiss. It's based on a modified version of Denissss's 1-man Baton pass team. Usually it's Uxie for screens-->Smeargle for Geomancy/Cotton gaurd-->Espeon for sweep. Quick passing Scolipede works well with Togekiss as I can flinch my way to many victories. Tyranitar to counter Gengar and Talonflame. Mix and match what you need. It's taken me to the high 1700, low 1800's.

I have a moody smeargle, and I always get Evasion boosts. (i use this for doubles), aswell with the accuracy boosts, dark void spam. I ran into a moody Glalie a few days ago against a JPN kid. He lost badly because he didn't get the boosts he wanted (-speed, +sp.atk) like 3 times in a row. I guess your aint lucky, then again this game is practically hax. I have a Smeargle set for doubles, but I'm deciding to bring gimmick teams in the upper ladder on Battlespot, so I'm thinking of using my Moddy doubles smeargle for singles:

Smeargle Focus sash
Ability: Moody
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Darkvoid (Spore will be put here)
- Transform
-Filler --need an attacking move from being full taunt bait, any suggestions?

Its fun to play with moody, but getting the occasionaly crappy boosts might screw you the game, but I take the chances anyways.
The only thing I REALLY get scared about is accuracy drops. I swear every time I get a -1 in accuracy my 100% accurate moves become Focus miss accuracy. Usually my Espeon has enough defensive boosts to handle a miss, but if I miss a Spore with Smeargle it's game over.
 
This website has been really helpful. It's like the japanese smogon. With a little Google translate+Bulbagarden help, you can get thru some really interesting sets:

http://yakkun.com/xy/theory/
That's a great find, and it's pretty easy to get around with google translate, like you said. Cool!

EDIT: First impression that I had was that even with familiar sets, the EV spreads are generally different. Better balanced for 3v3 as opposed to 6v6 I suppose?
 
Smeargle Focus sash
Ability: Moody
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Darkvoid (Spore will be put here)
- Transform
-Filler --need an attacking move from being full taunt bait, any suggestions?

Its fun to play with moody, but getting the occasionaly crappy boosts might screw you the game, but I take the chances anyways.
Although it's off subject for the thread, as a lover of Moody Dark Void Smeargle, I'll offer two suggestions:

1) There is no reason to run Protect over Spiky Shield. Replace that.

2) Sheer Cold is your filler/Taunt move. Use it to great success. Smeargle has zero offensive presence, but tossing out OHKO moves (especially if you have some Evasion or Defense boosts stacked up), means he continues to be a threat to the opponent. It also gives you another option when both the opponent's Pokemon are asleep.

If Sheer Cold seems too shaky for singles and that's what you're going for (I like it for doubles because there's a partner to use reliable attacks), go for something with set damage. Maybe Super Fang.
 
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I actually see kanghaskan only with return. My ladder spot place is 1550 now for the most time, maybe youre somewhere else? And the japanese site is a bit too chaotic for me, i dont see how to navigate in it, can anybody help me?
 

EnGarde

Not Dead Yet
Anyone else noticing a shift of Kangaskhan using double edge over return now?
My observation is that it comes and goes. My personal thought is that while double edge does have a greater BP, it comes at the cost of greater consistency, since kanga takes recoil from it.
 
My observation is that it comes and goes. My personal thought is that while double edge does have a greater BP, it comes at the cost of greater consistency, since kanga takes recoil from it.
Isnt kanghaskan getting the recoil twice? As for one of the frequenter used methodes of knocking kanghaskan out is with passive damage as for rocky helmet and rough skin or iron barbs, kanghaskan could knock himself out of battle with moves like double edge. I use my avalugg for it, who holds rocky helmet and has massive defense to withstand the 2 hko of all his physical moves.
 

EnGarde

Not Dead Yet
Isnt kanghaskan getting the recoil twice? As for one of the frequenter used methodes of knocking kanghaskan out is with passive damage as for rocky helmet and rough skin or iron barbs, kanghaskan could knock himself out of battle with moves like double edge. I use my avalugg for it, who holds rocky helmet and has massive defense to withstand the 2 hko of all his physical moves.
Exactly. One of the 2 main reasons to use double-edge is because it has greater BP, but also because you don't have to worry about raising your pokemon's happiness level for return. However, if you raise your own kangaskhan, leveling and EVing it is enough to max out happiness. Also, EV berries on non-EV'd stats (sp.atk reducing Hondew Berries and Def reducing Qualot Berries work great) and giving it the soothe bell and then doing some in-game battles with it are good ways to max happiness on a kanga you didn't personally raise.
 

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