Megas For All (Read the whole 1st post and check current slate)

[JayHankEdLyon]

What about Defog for Tornadus? That would give it a niche over Thundurus and certainly fits with flavor.

Standard Tornadus-T would then have Defog and Regenerator, a combination only found in Ho-Oh. Tornadus-T is immune to all hazards but Stealth Rock, regenerates whatever SR damage he takes upon switching out, and is aided by a wicked fast U-Turn and no weakness to Bisharp's deadly Pursuit regardless. He can also run great support moves for himself and his team, like Rain Dance (which helps his Hurricane), Tailwind, and Knock Off, before pivoting away. Essentially, the only thing that keeps Tornadus-T from being the best offensive defogger in the game is that, well, he doesn't get defog.

And considering the purpose of this meta is to make better megas, not make their standard forms more viable, I'm against that. Stuff like this, that seems innocuous but would have major ramifications, is why we have to treat new moves with great caution, particularly when the poke's non-mega form has a BST of 580.

 

[GG Unit]

So we'll do submissions for these Pokemon at some point. Looking ahead, are we really going to do a Mega Kyurem-Black? 800 BST is going to be too much without a detrimental ability that would make using it over normal Kyurem-Black pointless.

 

[nightsitter]

So we'll do submissions for these Pokemon at some point. Looking ahead, are we really going to do a Mega Kyurem-Black? 800 BST is going to be too much without a detrimental ability that would make using it over normal Kyurem-Black pointless.

I think I have a few ideas to make MKyuB balanced yet viable. Regardless, it's not quite the discussion period for that yet, so we should probably wait for acestriker19 to give us the go.

 

[AM]

So we'll do submissions for these Pokemon at some point. Looking ahead, are we really going to do a Mega Kyurem-Black? 800 BST is going to be too much without a detrimental ability that would make using it over normal Kyurem-Black pointless.

I think mega kyurem-b is pushing it. I personally wouldn't bother doing that.

 

[zerobreaker000]

Wait, it's STILL not the next slate? It's been, like, two days.

Also, duscussion about the metagame? I don't really know that much about the metagame, so I'll just try and point out what I see.
Weather hasn't changed much. The amount of weather-abusing megas is less than what I expected; Hail only has the three starters (Mega Abomasnow, Mega Articuno Y and Mega Rotom-F); Sun gained Mega Sunflora which should be a better starter than the other two due to its greater physical bulk, as well as Mega Leafeon with Chlorophyll, but using that forces you to use either Ninetales or manual weather; Rain gets Mega Pelipper which would rather abuse the Rain it started than letting others use the Rain, as it's only slightly bulkier on the physical side when compared to Politoed while being much frailer special wise. There's also Mega Omastar which works pretty much like the non-mega forme, Mega Swanna that can abuse both Hurricane and Rain-boosted Water moves, Mega Lapras who should be using Rain Dance for defensive sets, and Mega Jynx with Dry Skin which... is better off in Rain teams, I guess? It'd be murdered by Fire moves outside Rain. Sand hasn't changed much aside from Mega Hippowdon turning from a Sand starter into an abuser, allowing it to start its own weather without wasting a turn. Mega Mothim will probably be problematic when using Sand teams, as it can freely switch into both Rock and Ground moves and remove the Sand; Thankfully, it lacks a bit of offensive presence, and good prediction should be able to take it out. Mega Drifblim and Mega Rotom-S (both of which are my submissions, yay) are actually tailored to take out the weather starters, so be sure to pack checks/a counter for them.

EDIT: Mega Kyurem-B is definitely going to be shot into Ubers, so I may as well have some fun doing it.

 

[FireArrow]

IMPORTANT​

acestriker19 is MIA, sorry about that folks! Hopefully whatever is keeping him away from the internet is short lived.

I'll start moving the thread forward, because sitting here isn't any fun now is it?


So, many of us have been concerned about "sets" of pokemon (like the revolutions or legendary bird trio) getting irregular megas, so, similar to the forme issue, we'll be holding a vote.

For reference here's what the poll will look like:

1. Grouped pokemon should not be redone and the system should remain the same.
2. All groups of pokemon are grouped together and everyone can only vote for one person for each group (same solution as form changes.)

Also, the other options if option 2 is chosen.

1. Old megas should not be changed to fit this new rule
2. Old megas should be changed to fit this new rule.

So, discuss! Voting will open tomorrow night.

 

[nightsitter]

I think we should handle sets on a case-by-case basis. The only example of a set in the actual games, though unofficial, is Lati@s. The eon twins retain their parallel stats upon MEvo, so there's a precedent for set-based submissions. However, I sincerely doubt that GameFreak would do the same for every single set like that if presented with a MFA-esque task. It would just get repetitive after a while.

It seems that the majority is in support of full sets of similar Musketeers and Genies, so we should most likely follow through with that (yay for Fire Absorb Musketeers). However, there should be a discussion regarding potential similarities in each discussion period preceding submissions.

 

[GG Unit]

Yeah, I think if it's agreed upon beforehand it's fine. Something playing into the current ones is that we don't need to get super creative to make an OU-viable Mega Terrakion/Keldeo/Thundurus.

If a submitted one is already good, I think we should move on. We need go back and change the Eeveelutions, for example, just for the sake of keeping things parallel (also, they don't have the same base HP like these other Pokemon do so doing stuff like "give +25 to the highest stat" doesn't work as well).

 

[FireArrow]

Well, that was a very engaging discussion. PM your votes, voting is open for 24 hours.

poll:
Option 1. Grouped pokemon should not be redone and the system should remain the same.
Option 2. All groups of pokemon are grouped together and everyone can only vote for one person for each group (same solution as form changes.)

If voting for option 2, choose one of these:
1. Old megas should not be changed to fit this new rule.
2. Old megas should be changed to fit this new rule.
3. Another vote will be held, deciding which, if any, old megas will be changed.

 

[nightsitter]

Can there be an option for a case-by-case basis?

 

[Darth Manaphy]

Can there be an option for a case-by-case basis?

I think that SHOULD would fall under the third option of the second option

 

[JayHankEdLyon]

We really need to just have a slate, this thread will otherwise die.

 

[Dilasc]

We really need to just have a slate, this thread will otherwise die.

Maybe we could even skip past this rough spot for now and come back to it when concensous is reached?

Although the next 3 slates are groups of sorts and that leads to Gen6.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

If we want to, we can just start off with the Kalos Dex and go from there. That'll keep us busy for a few weeks

 

[AM]

If we want to, we can just start off with the Kalos Dex and go from there. That'll keep us busy for a few weeks

Yes please :)

 

[FireArrow]

Can there be an option for a case-by-case basis?

Option 3 is that, sorry If I worded it wrong.

If someone can pull up the next slate, or the first kalos slate, we can begin submissions along side this voting fiasco.

 

[JayHankEdLyon]

Chesnaught
Delphox
Greninja
Diggersby
Talonflame

Holy smokes this'll be fun. Although the only thing I really want to give Chesnaught is Horn Leech and Drain Punch (come the hell on, it's the only type combo with dual stab on the physical draining moves, it fits the flavor for both, it would really appreciate both for its tank sets as well as allowing it to patch up its shit special defense with Assault Vest, and it somehow gets neither), but that would be an entirely different shift from a mega form.

 

[nightsitter]

Delphox has already been done (check spreadsheet), so we'll be doing Talonflame instead.

Also, are we permitted to discuss this slate now? I would wait for Mew King to give us the go.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

Go for it. If we are stuck in this rut waiting, then go for it. The question is do we want to discuss JUST until tomorrow or do we want to be fair and discuss through tomorrow and start submitting on Tuesday?


EDIT: As for me, this is a really nice slate because ALL the Pokemon are OU Viable. And with Greninja and Talonflame keeping their respective roles and just adding 100 points (nearly anywhere) is going to make them probably too good.

Personally, I've been thinking about Talonflame for a bit. I want to make Bulkyflame. I'm going to "downgrade" it's ability and reduce its speed by a bit and make it a mixed wallbreaker. Its two offenses are practically identical anyways. The only hard part to imagine is the speed drop but flavorwise I'm going for a bulky fluffy bird over a sleek and fast bird.

Chesnaught and Diggersby are probably fine in their niches already. They just could use a stat upgrade and they should be decent.

 

[AM]

Mega Chesnaught is going to be such a great physical wall. Maybe a special defense boost to make it a greater tool to stall and balanced.

Not sure what direction for Talonflame I want to go for. I feel like it doesn't need to much improvement if you keep Gale wings. The loss of a band though can kind of help with that. Maybe some more bulk.

Greninja is going to be pretty fun. Might actually make it realistically possible to run a physical set as well (lol no physical greninja is not good right now).

As for diggersby idk. It's kind of has a stupid amount of power behind it so maybe a slight speed boost and a bit of bulk.

 

[yikes]

/me makes greninja physical and gives it Knock Off, Ice Punch, and Close Combat
What? Ninjas are good at close combat, Knock Off would be a great move for Greninja, and Ice Punch also makes sense.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

Mega Chesnaught is going to be such a great physical wall. Maybe a special defense boost to make it a greater tool to stall and balanced.

Not sure what direction for Talonflame I want to go for. I feel like it doesn't need to much improvement if you keep Gale wings. The loss of a band though can kind of help with that. Maybe some more bulk.

Greninja is going to be pretty fun. Might actually make it realistically possible to run a physical set as well (lol no physical greninja is not good right now).

As for diggersby idk. It's kind of has a stupid amount of power behind it so maybe a slight speed boost and a bit of bulk.

The problem with Physical Greninja is that its physical movepool is full of low power moves compared to its special movepool. It's certainly viable (mostly as a usable lure), but we could boost its attack well above life orb status and give it more defenses. For some reason I feel Greninja and Talonflame would both be nice if we remove speed down to around 100. We have more points and more ways to make it useful

 

[yikes]

The problem with Physical Greninja is that its physical movepool is full of low power moves compared to its special movepool. It's certainly viable (mostly as a usable lure), but we could boost its attack well above life orb status and give it more defenses. For some reason I feel Greninja and Talonflame would both be nice if we remove speed down to around 100. We have more points and more ways to make it useful

Why not give Greninja more high-power physical moves? Knock Off, Close Combat, and the Elemental Punches are all possible.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

Why not give Greninja more high-power physical moves? Knock Off, Close Combat, and the Elemental Punches are all possible.

Then regular Greninja will get them. We want to avoid changing the base form as MUCH as possible. Ice Punch is reasonable, but the others would make Physical Greninja too useful in non-mega form

 

[Valmanway]

I don't think Knock Off and Ice Punch would be that dramatic of a change for regular Greninja. Close Combat for sure would be going overboard, while the other two elemental punches don't really make sense for Greninja, but that might just be me.