CAP 19 CAP 19 - Part 4 - Primary Ability Discussion

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DetroitLolcat

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Okay everyone, we've finished the Threats Discussion and it's time to start Primary Ability! This thread's purpose is to discuss Abilities that will allow CAP19 to fulfill its concept. Afterwards, our Ability Leader and Topic Leader will create and finalize a slate of Abilities that the community will vote on. Our Ability Leader is ginganinja, so make sure to pay attention and respond to the posts and arguments he makes.

Some general rules for this discussion:
  • Custom abilities are banned. No exceptions. Posts suggesting custom abilities will be deleted.
  • There are ability banlists for the different stages of ability discussion. Posts suggesting banned abilities will be deleted.
  • Flavor abilities do not have any place in this thread. Do not bring up flavor reasoning. Posts that rely on flavor reasoning will be deleted.
The following abilities are banned from this discussion:

Air Lock
Aura Break
Bad Dreams
Color Change
Dark Aura
Defeatist
Fairy Aura
Forecast
Fur Coat
Huge Power
Illusion
Imposter
Moody
Multitype
Parental Bond
Protean
Pure Power
Shadow Tag
Slow Start
Stance Change
Teravolt
Truant
Turboblaze
Victory Star
Wonder Guard
Zen Mode

Be careful not to discuss any of these abilities. If you want to learn why they're banned from discussion, you can check out the Policy Review threads that created this list here and here.

This thread will be open for discussion once ginganinja has posted his opening remarks and questions.

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CAP19 So Far:

Concept:
Yilx said:
Name: Einherjar ~Acta Est Fabula~

Description: A Pokemon that dissuades your opponent from fainting it, or can even leave it's presence on the field felt even after it faints.

Justification: When a Pokemon faints, it's usually thought of as the battle having gotten down to a 5-6. However, we've yet to discover if a Pokemon can leave a lasting impression on the battle even after having fainted; be it through moves like Healing Wish and Destiny Bond, placing hazards that the opponent can't remove as their removal has been taken care of, or by leaving an opponent's key member weakened and/or taken out.

Questions To Be Answered:
  • How can a Pokemon leave a long-lasting effect on the rest of the battle with just it's moves?
  • How the hell is it different from simply ramming a sacrificial martyr into your opponent's team and hoping it punches holes in it?
  • Building on the previous question, is it possible to build this Pokemon as a defensive threat rather than a "Glass Cannon"?
  • Is it even possible for a Pokemon to leave a lasting effect on on the battle, even after it faints?
  • Could changing your opponent's way of thinking even be plausible? From, "I need to take CAP X out!", to, "Damn, if I take CAP X out, I'll be in trouble...!"
Type: Electric/Poison

Leadership Team:

Pwnemon- Topic Leader
ginganinja - Ability Leader
srk1214 - Typing Leader
alexwolf - Movepool Leader
Deck Knight - Stats Leader
 
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ginganinja

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O.k, so I’m assuming most of you have read the provisional threat list and are aware that we have a few pokemon we want to be beaten by, and a few more that we want to handle.

Firstly, I want people to look at submitted abilities both in an individual sense, and how the ability relates to engineering set up opportunities for a partner such as Gyarados. In one sense, I want this CAP to be able to function in a vacuum, because I don’t wish to go down a “GyaraVire” route where we create a CAP that is only viable so long as people continue to let it lure in pokemon that people just won’t use. I highly doubt any competent player in the playtest will deliberately use pokemon that Mega Gyarados can set up all over, so I guess I would prefer abilities that benefit both our actual CAP, but also have some synergy for assisting a partner (such as Mega Gyarados) in finding an opportunity to sweep.

Lastly, please look at the threat list. We have ground types we want to lure in, as well as ground types we actually want to handle (or prevent from setting up), so look at the individual pokemon rather than looking at them as a collection of typing. If you want to submit an ability that assists this CAP in walling Excadrill (for instance), then consider how this same ability might affect say, Landorus, which Pwnemon indicated would be a good ground type to lure. As a side not, I suggest most of you ignore the trash pokemon on that list (such as Weavile and Rhyperior….) and actually look at like the six or so viable pokemon on that list worth talking about within this metagame.

Any questions can be directed to me via IRC, any bitching can be sent towards Birkal who enjoys that sort of thing.


Birk-a-dit: Here's the threatlist for those of you who missed it.

alexwolf said:
  • Landorus
  • Keldeo locked into anything except from Hidden Power Electric / Scald
  • Excadrill outside of sand
  • Landorus-T
  • Garchomp
  • Greninja
  • Mega Scizor and regular Scizor
  • Choiced Fire-types (Choice Band Talonflame locked into Flare Blitz, Scarf Heatran, Scarf and Band Victini locked to anything other than Bolt Strike)
  • Hippowdon without phazing
  • Gliscor that lacks Toxic and is not faster than Mega Gyarados + Taunt (EQ + Knock Off SpD Gliscor, SR + Taunt + U-turn Gliscor)
  • Dragon Dance Dragonite
  • Mamoswine
  • Starmie without Thunderbolt
  • Weavile
  • Rhyperior without Toxic / Roar
  • Tyranitar and Mega Tyranitar (except from CB Stone Edge, which does over half)
 
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Serene Grace seems like a good ability for our Pokemon to have. Keep in mind that a good number of Pokemon that shut Gyarados down don't actually want to get statused. It has the perfect typing for Serene Grace as well, as many good STAB moves for Poison and Electric can have 30% chances of doing something significant, which is then increased to 60% by the Grace. We also hypothesized that CAP could fit into the Gyarados team as a good wallbreaker, and having Serene Grace to pull status drops and debuffs is pretty insane.

This also helps us deal with Taunt users that could give Gyarados trouble. We now no longer need Toxic or Thunder Wave to get poison or paralysis off consistently.
 

HeaLnDeaL

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Alright, I'd just like to get this out of the way and mention an ability that I do NOT think is something we should have. Aftermath may seem like it fits the concept because it gives a nasty repercussion to physical attackers that knock it out, as nothing really appreciates losing 25% of it's health. However, I believe that Aftermath is actually detrimental to our chosen direction with Gyarados. Particularly, Aftermath only works with contact moves, which are way more often than not physical, and Gyardos's intimidate handles physical attackers decently well already. However, most importantly, if the physically attacking foe is at 25% or less health upon KOing CAP19,then we lose out on getting our free switch as the opponent gets a switch in as well. If it's a physically attacking Pokemon with Life Orb, then they only have to be at 35% HP or less in order for the same situation to occur. The concept, as it stands now, is to try to get Gyarados in and allow him to get a free turn of set-up. If the opponent faints due to Aftermath before Gyarados comes out, then this plan is essentially ruined.
 

Deck Knight

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Iron Barbs seems like an ideal ability to both foster independence from Gyarados and align with the concept's notion of creating a Pokemon your opponent does not want to faint immediately. Electric/Poison resists the most ubiquitous forms of priority in the tier in FlySPAM, Bullet Punch, and Mach Punch - and Iron Barbs also does nothing to discourage the Ground types we want CAP to lure in. Earthquake and Earth Power are both non-contact.

By giving CAP the opportunity to switch into these moves which so commonly threaten a Mega Gyarados sweep (well, FlySPAM and Mach Punch anyway), and weaken or even KO the threats with recoil, we facilitate its role both as a Gyarados partner and a threat unto itself. The fact Iron Barbs also punishes U-turn given CAP's Bug resistance also reduces the ability of U-turn users to dissuade Gyarados from Mega Evolving. Gyarados also enjoys facing threats that have suffered residual damage, and Iron Barbs can act as a psuedo-Stealth Rock or Spikes layer with proper prediction.

As to Iron Barbs vs. Rough Skin, I just like the idea of Barbs for a Poison type...
 

alexwolf

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Here are some abilities that help the CAP not be set up bait for the Pokemon it wants to lure for Mega Gyarados to set up or provide some useful overall utility:

Prankster

Prankster gives a ton of options to the CAP, including priority Taunt to stop any set up from faster Pokemon, priority Thunder Wave to check some of the faster Pokemon that trouble Gyarados (Mega Aero, Scarf Terrakion, Scarf Keldeo), and priority Healing Wish to assist Mega Gyarados no matter how low on life the CAP is. Of course there are endless options with such an ability and we should be careful at the movepool stage, but i think that Thundurus has already showed us that a Prankster user can be primarily offensive if it has the right tools, so i don't think that by choosing Prankster we are shoehorning ourselves to the support route.

Speed Boost

Speed Boost could make the CAP a significant threat and force the opponent to hurry up and KO it instead of setting up. There are multiple ways a Pokemon can take advantage of the speed boosts, such as to sweep, wallbreak, quickstall, and Baton Pass, and all of them pressure the opponent to KO us, which is exactly what we want from our checks and counters.

Water Absorb / Dry Skin / Storm Drain

Seeing as how we want the CAP to be able to deal with Keldeo, Azumarill, defensive Water-types, what better ability to do this than those three? Mega Gyarados has Earthquake to get past CAP, so we don't wall the Pokemon we are supposed to support. I know that by going with one of those abilities we will lose one set up target for Mega Gyarados (choiced Keldeo locked into Water-type moves), but the ability to switch into Water-types easily could be worth it, as they are some of the biggest troubles to Mega Gyarados.

Iron Barbs / Rough Skin

See Deck Knight's post.
 
There isn't any ability out there that would consummate... dying to what we want to die to - instead, I think we should focus on something to better accomplish this:

Pwnemon said:
As for what CAP19 should threaten—it should threaten defensive Pokemon and pivots which Gyarados has trouble handling. These include but are not limited to Ferrothorn, Slowbro, physically defensive Amoonguss, Alomomola. If possible, it should also be able to beat Gyarados's more offensive counters such as Thundurus, Mega Aerodactyl, and Mega Manectric, but these are a secondary priority.
A damage boosting ability, such as tough claws or sheer force could help. Serene Grace, as number cruncher suggested, could work, but may make us threatening to to things we don't intend. Basically, we want a wall breaker ability.
 
I'd like to discuss Tinted Lens. This ability is like the Unaware of typing and can allow CAP19 to land neutral STAB-Poison moves on Landorus, Therian, and Garchomp, Gliscor, Hippowdon, and Tyranitar.
We may still be checked by these Pokémon, but at least we can deal a good amount of damage with neutral STABs to let Gyarados set up, as well as be threatening enough to them to prevent them from setting up.
Its STAB-Electric moves will hit neutrally on Ferrothorn.

As for Iron Barbs, I believe that is a good defensive option for CAP19 as it create consequences for contact attackers.
 
Effect Spore could be an interesting option because as Deck Knight said we can punish U-Turn users using either passive damage or we can utilize the possibility of status after contact. It also requires contact to activate, which would naturally attract ground types with EQ that don't fear it. It even has the additional bonus of further discouraging the use of priority moves that CAP 19 already resists. The possibility of spreading crippling status around also benefits Gyarados by giving it the potential to have an easier time setting up.
 
Just stating a few other possible abilities that haven't been touched upon yet...

First off, when I first saw the typing for this CAP, one ability that instantly came to mind was Water Veil, as that would guarantee a Pokemon that could take in all three non-immobilizing major status conditions, which would assist MGyra very well. Even more helpful, It could even be Flash Fire to not only take in will-o-wisps, but gain attack bonuses in doing so, which a slight downside to being kinda more susceptible to freezing, which isn't that much of an issue.

Alternatively, it could also be Magic Bounce to not only be immune to Toxic/Thunder Wave/Will-o-Wisp, among other things, but will even send them back to the opponent, making MGyra less cautious about things like entry hazards, as well, making it easier to set up.

Other than that, I guess it could also have Drizzle, which would give MGyraa better time against the ground- and fire-type threats on the list, but it may not really compare.
 
Another possibility I can see is Sap Sipper, which would allow CAP 19 to sponge incoming Spores and Leech Seeds from Ferrothorn and Amoonguss and boost its Attack. Alternatively, Electric-absorbing abilities like Lightning Rod or Motor Drive could benefit CAP while helping it check some of the offensive checks to Mega Gyarados, like Thundurus and Mega Manectric.
 
I think these abilities can be put to good use on CAP 19:

Bulletproof
  • Why Bulletproof?
Bulletproof is the signature ability of Chesnaught's Line. It protects the user from some ball and bomb moves. The list of moves that Bulletproof blocks is here:- www.serebii.net/abilitydex/bulletproof.shtml
The notable moves it block are:-
Electro Ball
Seed Bomb
Focus Blast
Aura Sphere
Energy Ball
Bullet Seed
Zap Cannon

Whats so common in these moves...Well, Gyarados is weak to them. An immunity to these moves will make it easier to be a great partner for Mega Gyarados. Safe Switches to super effective moves is a great teammate to Mega Gyarados and other Pokemon. As Bulletproof makes the CAP a safe switch to some some super effective moves having bulletproof will be really help Mega Gyarados.

edit: Removed Poison Heal
Static
can also be an option as a quick Paralysis on the opponent can really help Gyarados in taking the opponent out
 
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ginganinja

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Serene Grace
Not that sure on this. Its a generically "good" ability but I don't really see this CAP really abusing status causing moves. I guess it can spam Thunder and Sludge Bomb to act as a mini status platform, but I would counter your argument that pokemon that switch into this CAP "don't like Status", as the majority of ground types take bullshit from Thunder Wave, and a select few of them are also immune / don't care about poison as well. I feel like the arguments for this ability needs to be a little more developed. Also, the ability to status a few pokemon does not automatically make you a wallbreaker js.

Iron Barbs
I rather like this ability as it plays into the heart of the concept, is well balanced, and as you pointed out, fulfills my current ideologies as to working both for Gyarados and for the CAP itself. I don't have strong criticisms towards it currently, and would consider it one of my favoured options atm.

Prankster
I'm a little leery of Prankster, mostly because I am fully aware there is a not insignificant portion of the playerbase that believes Thundurus-I should be suspect tested and I would prefer to stay away from something a little similar to Thundurus. Its already got pretty solid neutral coverage, and everyone already knows how much of an arsehole priority T-Wave is to fight against, so its not hard for me to see the similarities. I also have the rather cynical opinion that there are a select group of people in the CAP community that lack a basic understanding as to what is a balanced movepool, and the fact that Prankster is just one of those supremely strong abilities makes me uncertain in the ability of certain people to prevent powerful movepool combinations that end up breaking said CAP. If I was more confident that this people could balance around this ability, I would be much more favourable towards it.

Speed Boost
I don't like this on multiple levels. Firstly, Speed Boost is like in the top 5 of lamest abilities in the game and actually promotes selfish play over supportive play for this CAP since with Speed Boost you are effectively unrevengable from revenge killers. When you factor in an Electric / Poison typing that happens to take bullshit from some of the most common forms of the priority out there, already strong neutral coverage and the possibility of coverage moves, just threatens to make it an overpowered sweeper. Furthermore, Speed Boost doesn't actually discourage you from wanting to kill it, in fact, Speed Boost is one of the few abilities that skews the Risk Reward situation heavily, because if you don't stop it from gaining a free speed boost every round, then you lose, period. It just creates this dynamic where you HAVE to attack it CAP with whatever you have just to stop the boosts, irrespective as to whether Gyarados will come in on a ground move or whatever. Strictly speaking this is technically pro concept since its engineering free set up opportunities, but on the other hand, Speed Boost puts so much pressure on the opponent it ends up potentially being an unhealthy influence specifically to Risk vs Reward (since you cannot really risk over predicting against Speed Boost) that again, you end up creating an uncompetitive CAP. Nor do I really like Baton Pass. You have a Majority decision of OU players calling the BP metagame unhealthy, while I know of several highly respected players that would also add adjectives such as "bullshit", or "toxic" (and thats just the nicer ones!). I have no inclination to make something with excellent dual coverage and blazing fast speed that simply baton passes (when up against a counter) into Gyarados who then knocks your sweeper down -1 atk, has +2 speed already thanks to speed boost, and proceeds to get a free DD, now outruns everything and sweeps cold. You don't have the security of Unaware mons, because Gyarados specifically breaks past them, it has the option of Taunt as well to bypass phazing / recovery, and the CAP itself possesses good enough STABs to hurt some of the more common phazers in the metagame. Its pretty Toxic to be up against, Heatran even has to tank hits from Thunder/bolt, since it cannot rely on Earth Power with a BP to Gyarados far too likely.

Water Absorb / Dry Skin / Storm Drain
I actually like this a lot, simply because I always scoffed at the idea that Gyarados will set up on water types. Most of them have Scald (and pack a boosting move), making it risky to switch in on / set up on, and the ones that don't pack so much power its difficult to switch into anyway (hi Specs Keldeo). Its just a solid, well targeted ability that I think would work perfectly fine.

Tinted Lens
Works as a strong wallbreaker ability, but care has to be taken to ensure that we don't scare off the pokemon that we would like to switch in. Its a fine line I know, but when you take resists out of the equation, 80% of our threa tlist doesn't really like switching in anymore :/. I think this ability could still work, and I like it better than say...speed boost, so wouldn't be opposed to seeing some more well reasoned arguments I guess.

Water Veil
Just seems pointless. Whee, we can switch into any status and...then what. Its a "cool" thing, but its not really relevant to the concept as a whole.

Magic Bounce

Pretty much one of the strongest abilities in the game, and as such part of me shy's away from it. Its really nice for shutting down Ferrothorn as well as Breloom, which is SUPER helpful, but on the other hand, the ability itself is so generically strong it risks impacting on our threatlist, although not as much as some of the other stronger abilities I think.

**********************************************************************

Its late, I might do some more tomorrow.
 
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nyttyn

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I honestly do not think we need an overtly powerful ability to do what this CAP would like to do, regardless of role. That being said, here are a few abilites that are cool in my eyes:

Mummy
Dissuades contact attackers from killing CAP19, as a lot of them nowadays rely on their ability (gale wings, technician, iron fist) and really do not like having said ability gone. It's not a huge difference, but it very much can make the difference, and very much is a dissuasion.

Rough Skin
As prior mentioned Iron Barbs reasoning, but I prefer rough skin because it sounds cooler. Cool option all in all.

Gooey
Filling out the "screw you for hitting me" trilogy, Gooey is also a very solid option, as -1(/-2/-3) speed pokemon are at a severe disadvantage, 9 times out of 10. Definitely would be a discouragement.

Magnet Pull
A number of sweepers in OU, Mega Gyarados included, aren't particularly fans of Steel types (especially ferrothorn and skarmory), and would like to see them deleted. Magnet Pull is more of a "team synergy" option then Rough Skin or Mummy, but is definitely an option that deserves to be at least considered IMO.
 
What we do NOT want is something like Tinted Lens, or any offensive ability really. Gyarados is the sweeper, CAP should provide support by dealing with his threats primarily. For this respect, I'm a big fan of Static. It does a better job of discouraging U-turners than Gooey, Mummy, or Iron Barbs, because the effect, while not always activated, inflicts a permanent and hugely crippling status upon the victim. Slower things can get wrecked by our partner far more easily.

Another, probably less useful option not considered until now is Soundproof. With Soundproof, CAP would no longer need fear being phased out by the occasional Hippowdon or Rhyperior. It also creates some mind games to be had with Mega Gardevoir and other users of Hyper Voice.
 
Gonna throw my support behind Prankster IMO it helps the concept alot, when you think about being bad to faint an opposing pokémon normally the momentum swing is what comes to your mind, but even worse than KOing a mon and maybe giving some momentum to a powerful sweeper (in our case Mgyara) is when you kill a mon but in his last turn he setups something dangerous for the next mon to abuse, like a taunt on your wall or a burn (i know it's unlikely but just as an example) on your physical attacker or even a field effect, really IMO Prankster can create those last turn scenarios where the opponent will really regret killing this CAP.
 
Not that sure on this. Its a generically "good" ability but I don't really see this CAP really abusing status causing moves. I guess it can spam Thunder and Sludge Bomb to act as a mini status platform, but I would counter your argument that pokemon that switch into this CAP "don't like Status", as the majority of ground types take bullshit from Thunder Wave, and a select few of them are also immune / don't care about poison as well. I feel like the arguments for this ability needs to be a little more developed. Also, the ability to status a few pokemon does not automatically make you a wallbreaker js.
The problem is that if the opponent actually switched a Ground type into us, then we've already succeeded in what we were trying to do. What we're trying to do at this point is keep neutral mons (Like Gengar, Mandibuzz, and Venusaur) from just beating it and ruining everything, while also statusing mons that would usually eliminate our entire team (Defensive Water types, Mega Medicham, ect.) and mons that could attempt to set-up themselves (Dragonite, Charizard X, Kyurem-B)
 
Flame body: This could be an interesting ability as it would essentially allow CAP 19 to threaten status on anything it wanted regardless of immunity. And knock their attack down -1 with burn. (if it burns)

TBH I like the idea of Gooey more though. Like a reverse Speed Boost that turns our bait Pokemon into even better setup bait.
 

Bughouse

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I don't like the idea of almost any of these after-contact effects, when Ground attacks that hit CAP 19 won't be making contact.

Instead, I have a somewhat radical proposal: Arena Trap

With Arena Trap, we can make Gyarados's ability to set up a lot more secure by first removing Breloom from the field. Want to weaken or maybe even remove some Bulky Waters or Clefable? Want to force Greninja to be the thing that kills you? Simple, don't let them switch out.

I think what this idea of enabling a Mega Gyarados sweep needs to succeed is some removal of choice. Prankster support moves are great and all, but not if you use them on the wrong Pokemon because it could switch out. If we want to go that sort of route, it'd be better to use Arena Trap and simply give high enough speed to grant support when we get to stats.

This ability arguably is also the best in terms of general aid to a set-up teammate because you can trap and weaken/status/remove anything grounded. Want that Heatran gone for your Mega Mawile? Maybe it has a Ground move, or if nothing else Specs HP Ground (lol).

While Arena Trap is a very powerful ability I think it's important to remember its weaknesses in the context of OU and the type we chose.

Mons we cannot trap or don't easily beat with our typing:
S rank: Mega Charizard-X, Landorus, Thundurus, Mega Mawile
A rank: Mega Charizard-Y, Excadrill, Garchomp, Latias, Latios, Mega Pinsir, Talonflame, (Mega) Tyranitar, Mega Venusaur, Dragonite, Ferrothorn, Gliscor, Hippowdon, Landorus-T, Mamoswine, Mandibuzz, Rotom-W, Diggersby, Kyurem-B
etc, etc.

We will need to be cautious in stats and movepool (particuarly stats) if we go this route, but I think it is the most pro-concept in terms of "leaving its presence on the field even after it faints" in that it can pick and choose what opposing Pokemon will be the one to take it out.
 
What about Cursed Body?
It's not incredibly reliable, but it could be used to take an attack that would otherwise cripple/defeat Gyarados, disable it, and give Gyarados a great set-up opportunity. It deters the opponent from attacking, like Iron Barbs; both abilities fit the concept really well.
 
I'm in support of any abilities nullifying electric moves so Volt Absorb, Lightningrod and Motor Drive. I think the first two would be better for CAP 19 as I think HP and Special Attack boosts will benefit it more than Speed boosts. The ability to take electric moves would be great because not only would it eliminate Non-Mega Gyarados' main weakness, there is also the fact that only Electivire and Stunfisk (lol) can run Earthquake/Earth Power, encouraging a Ground type to switch in. It also stops any Pokemon wanting to Volt Switch, especially Scarfers that use said move.
 
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Da Pizza Man

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Going to throw my support behind Dry Skin. This ability is actually quite awesome, because not only does this ability really help us out by making us immune to the scalds from Keldeo and forces it and other water types to run different water type moves here, but it actually encourages our choiced fire type threats to come in. With the huge temptation to use a choiced fire type move, we have opened the window for us to be kod and give Mega Gyarados a nice setup opportunity. Water Absorb and Storm Drain would also be nice, but for the reason I just said I would prefer Dry Skin.
 
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alexwolf

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I don't like the idea of almost any of these after-contact effects, when Ground attacks that hit CAP 19 won't be making contact.

Instead, I have a somewhat radical proposal: Arena Trap

With Arena Trap, we can make Gyarados's ability to set up a lot more secure by first removing Breloom from the field. Want to weaken or maybe even remove some Bulky Waters or Clefable? Want to force Greninja to be the thing that kills you? Simple, don't let them switch out.

I think what this idea of enabling a Mega Gyarados sweep needs to succeed is some removal of choice. Prankster support moves are great and all, but not if you use them on the wrong Pokemon because it could switch out. If we want to go that sort of route, it'd be better to use Arena Trap and simply give high enough speed to grant support when we get to stats.

This ability arguably is also the best in terms of general aid to a set-up teammate because you can trap and weaken/status/remove anything grounded. Want that Heatran gone for your Mega Mawile? Maybe it has a Ground move, or if nothing else Specs HP Ground (lol).

While Arena Trap is a very powerful ability I think it's important to remember its weaknesses in the context of OU and the type we chose.

Mons we cannot trap or don't easily beat with our typing:
S rank: Mega Charizard-X, Landorus, Thundurus, Mega Mawile
A rank: Mega Charizard-Y, Excadrill, Garchomp, Latias, Latios, Mega Pinsir, Talonflame, (Mega) Tyranitar, Mega Venusaur, Dragonite, Ferrothorn, Gliscor, Hippowdon, Landorus-T, Mamoswine, Mandibuzz, Rotom-W, Diggersby, Kyurem-B
etc, etc.

We will need to be cautious in stats and movepool (particuarly stats) if we go this route, but I think it is the most pro-concept in terms of "leaving its presence on the field even after it faints" in that it can pick and choose what opposing Pokemon will be the one to take it out.
Arena Trap is too radical. We will have to seriously limit the CAP in every single other suspect, to the point where we are just trying to keep the CAP balanced. Being able to trap and KO Pokemon such as Azumarill, Keldeo, Clefable, Greninja, Ferrothorn, Mega Heracross, (Mega) Scizor, Breloom, Slowbro, Alomomola, and many more has huge implications and is too influential to fly within our concept. And the Pokemon i mentioned can be trapped even assuming very bad stats and a bad movepool (HP Fire for Scizor and Ferrothorn), with actual stats and movepool the possibilities are endless (Scarf to fuck up faster grounded Pokemon, Focus Sash to trap Pokemon that should be checking us, type-resist berries). If Dugtrio was OU at one point because of Arena Trap, a Pokemon with 405 BST and lack of useful resists (only Electric immunity matters with that frailty), imagine what a Pokemon with such a great defensive typing could do, and i really hope you don't expect us to make a CAP with such a low BST, because that's historically impossible. It's another thing to explore the concept of a lose-lose situation and another thing to completely flip the tables in our favor. If CAP has Arena Trap then Mega Gyarados will end up being broken (or the CAP itself), as without Azumarill, Keldeo, Alomomola, Slowbro, Ferrothorn, and Breloom what is the opponent supposed to use to deal with it?

ginganinja said:
I'm a little leery of Prankster, mostly because I am fully aware there is a not insignificant portion of the playerbase that believes Thundurus-I should be suspect tested and I would prefer to stay away from something a little similar to Thundurus. Its already got pretty solid neutral coverage, and everyone already knows how much of an arsehole priority T-Wave is to fight against, so its not hard for me to see the similarities. I also have the rather cynical opinion that there are a select group of people in the CAP community that lack a basic understanding as to what is a balanced movepool, and the fact that Prankster is just one of those supremely strong abilities makes me uncertain in the ability of certain people to prevent powerful movepool combinations that end up breaking said CAP. If I was more confident that this people could balance around this ability, I would be much more favourable towards it.
While i definitely agree with you about the dangers of Prankster, OU having Thundurus, a Pokemon regarded broken by many, could actually be a point in favor of Prankster. We have a fellow Electric-type with the same ability that is potentially broken in OU, so we know exactly what not to do in order to keep the CAP balanced, such as lower Speed and SpA. Imagine if Thundurus couldn't threaten almost every single of its defensive switch-ins with its amazing coverage, great mixed stats, and access to Nasty Plot. Or imagine if Thundurus couldn't outspeed almost the whole unboosted metagame. Imagine we take a bit from Thundurus power and Speed and move it to its bulk, while also limiting the offensive movepool a bit... We can make a perfectly balanced Pokemon that fits the concept very well. (the last part is just en example to illustrate how the CAP could be balanced with Prankster, didn't mean to polljump).

I agree completely with everything else ginganinja said btw.
 

Da Pizza Man

Pizza Time
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Personally I'm thinking Magnet Pull would be a better option than Arena Trap. While Arena Trap does basically almost always create a situation where the opponent is basically must KO CAP19 and become setup bait for us, we also need to consider what alexwolf just said, effectively turning us into a powerful core instead of a setup bait lure pokemon. Magnet Pull doesn't really do this. The only poke that alexwolf mentioned that is trapped by Magnet Pull is Ferrothorn, who is a big threat to Mega Gyarados. Mqgnet Pull doesn't create a "You must kill me" situation to nearly asmany setup bait pokemon, it does do so to some, namely Excadrill and Heatran. These two pokes can be great for setup depending on the situation and trapping them but not to many others is very nice.
 
Backing Dry Skin. The power to almost completely nullify water types (and therefore scald) and bait out the choiced fire types for Gyara is extremely helpful for this CAP as a whole.

I'd also like to dissuade anyone from picking overly offensive abilities. I have no problem with possibly making CAP 19 an offensive poke, but at the end of the day it is more important that its ability creates a healthy environment for Gyara than it is for CAP 19 to receive a power boost.
 
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