Resource RU Viability Ranking

[Molk]

Alright, even though most people already know about this, both Yanmega and Zoroark reached both a simple and supermajority this vote, so i'll be updating this right now with the removal of both from S rank!

I have no real opinion on Durant myself atm, but i'd just like to point out that Durant's reliance on low BP moves actually makes it so it doesn't hit as hard as that attack stat suggests. Move BP is pretty important when it comes to sweeping, and imo it matters just as much as the actual Attack stat of the Pokemon thats using the move. Right now some of the terms being thrown around about Durant's power make it look like some power god like Mega Mawile in the higher tiers or something, but in reality its power is more along the level of.

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant X-Scissor vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 226-266 (62.6 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Primeape Close Combat vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 220-259 (60.9 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Not really weak by any means, especially for something so fast, but its no Medicham/Hitmonlee/Diggersby.

I'll be testing out Durant soon in the new metagame so i'll get back to you guys in a bit

 

[HypnoEmpire]

I would like to nominate Hitmonlee back up for S rank.

Honestly, I'm not sure why it was moved down in the first place. I guess it will get better after Yanmega is gone, but that isn't why I'm nominating it. First off, it basically 2HKOs everything bar a couple Pokemon, but it can actually find ways to get around them. I use a wallbreaking set of High Jump Kick, Knock Off, Sucker Punch / Mach Punch, Double-Edge and let me just say that nothing can switch into this thing safely. At all.

Gligar and Golbat can come in on Hitmonlee ONCE. After they get their Eviolites Knocked Off, they can't switch back in to Hitmonlee.

252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Hitmonlee Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gligar: 147-174 (44 - 52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Hitmonlee Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Golbat: 191-225 (53.9 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Amoonguss and Aromatisse can't switch into Hitmonlee well at all.

252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Hitmonlee Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 191-225 (44.2 - 52%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Hitmonlee Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 187-221 (46 - 54.4%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

After talking to a few people in the RU room on PS!, we found that the only Pokemon that can switch into Hitmonlee more than once is Defensive Spiritomb, since it can take Knock Off a few times and threaten to burn it. Also, Arikado informed me that pivot switching is a good way to wear down this set (Ex: switching into Amoonguss, then Alomomola, then Amoonguss again, etc. since LO recoil and Double-Edge recoil will eventually lead to Hitmonlee taking itself down and both carry Regenerator).

Okay, so Hitmonlee is an excellent wallbreaker. Most of us know that already. Is that enough to make it S rank? No. But Hitmonlee can do more than break walls. It can also run Choice Scarf and Endure + Liechi Berry + Reversal sets effectively, which means it can perform the role of a wallbreaker, a revenge killer, a cleaner, and a sweeper. I have definitely used its Choice Scarf set, and while I haven't used its Endure set, I have heard some good things about it.

Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

Let's look at this for a minute, shall we? While Hitmonlee definitely isn't walling anything anytime soon, being able to basically 2HKO everything in the tier except a Pokemon or two from NU counts as being able to sweep significant portions of the metagame to me. While its wallbreaking set is at a poor Speed tier, it can use priority in Mach Punch and Sucker Punch, both very useful in different instances, and it can run a Choice Scarf set to patch up its poor Speed. Also, its Endure set basically outspeeds and KOs everything that doesn't have a huge amount of bulk and HP left and anything that doesn't resist it.

Hmm, it can run multiple sets effectively (three), so that's okay. Now, substantial strengths. As said above, being able to 2HKO basically everything bar 1-2 Pokemon in NU counts as a substantial strength to me. Also, going back a bit, since it can 2HKO basically everything, Hitmonlee is actually pretty decent at getting rid of specific threats so something else on your team can come in and sweep. This thing has obvious flaws, like how damn frail it is, but I just feel like he deserves to be moved to S.

tl;dr, Hitmonlee is versatile enough and strong enough to be pushed to S rank, at least that's how I view it. I would love to hear your arguments though. :)

 

[Mew2]

I would like to nominate Hitmonlee back up for S rank.

Honestly, I'm not sure why it was moved down in the first place. I guess it will get better after Yanmega is gone, but that isn't why I'm nominating it. First off, it basically 2HKOs everything bar a couple Pokemon, but it can actually find ways to get around them. I use a wallbreaking set of High Jump Kick, Knock Off, Sucker Punch / Mach Punch, Double-Edge and let me just say that nothing can switch into this thing safely. At all.

Gligar and Golbat can come in on Hitmonlee ONCE. After they get their Eviolites Knocked Off, they can't switch back in to Hitmonlee.

252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Hitmonlee Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gligar: 147-174 (44 - 52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Hitmonlee Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Golbat: 191-225 (53.9 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Amoonguss and Aromatisse can't switch into Hitmonlee well at all.

252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Hitmonlee Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 191-225 (44.2 - 52%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Hitmonlee Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 187-221 (46 - 54.4%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

After talking to a few people in the RU room on PS!, we found that the only Pokemon that can switch into Hitmonlee more than once is Defensive Spiritomb, since it can take Knock Off a few times and threaten to burn it. Also, Arikado informed me that pivot switching is a good way to wear down this set (Ex: switching into Amoonguss, then Alomomola, then Amoonguss again, etc. since LO recoil and Double-Edge recoil will eventually lead to Hitmonlee taking itself down and both carry Regenerator).

Okay, so Hitmonlee is an excellent wallbreaker. Most of us know that already. Is that enough to make it S rank? No. But Hitmonlee can do more than break walls. It can also run Choice Scarf and Endure + Liechi Berry + Reversal sets effectively, which means it can perform the role of a wallbreaker, a revenge killer, a cleaner, and a sweeper. I have definitely used its Choice Scarf set, and while I haven't used its Endure set, I have heard some good things about it.

Let's look at this for a minute, shall we? While Hitmonlee definitely isn't walling anything anytime soon, being able to basically 2HKO everything in the tier except a Pokemon or two from NU counts as being able to sweep significant portions of the metagame to me. While its wallbreaking set is at a poor Speed tier, it can use priority in Mach Punch and Sucker Punch, both very useful in different instances, and it can run a Choice Scarf set to patch up its poor Speed. Also, its Endure set basically outspeeds and KOs everything that doesn't have a huge amount of bulk and HP left and anything that doesn't resist it.

Hmm, it can run multiple sets effectively (three), so that's okay. Now, substantial strengths. As said above, being able to 2HKO basically everything bar 1-2 Pokemon in NU counts as a substantial strength to me. Also, going back a bit, since it can 2HKO basically everything, Hitmonlee is actually pretty decent at getting rid of specific threats so something else on your team can come in and sweep. This thing has obvious flaws, like how damn frail it is, but I just feel like he deserves to be moved to S.

tl;dr, Hitmonlee is versatile enough and strong enough to be pushed to S rank, at least that's how I view it. I would love to hear your arguments though. :)

I'm supporting this; Double Edge hits like a truck and without Yanmega, Hitmonlee can spam his STABS easier also supporting this cause you're my friend :).

 

[x MAD AXES x]

Supporting, imo he is easy to place on any team, just like rhyperior but I feel he is better than rhyperior and on par with the other S tiers plus he doesn't have a massive flaw keeping him from S tier like moltres taking 50% from stealth rock or Shapedo's terrible bulk. His speed tier is bad like you said but mach/sucker punch make pokes like sharpedo switch out or they are dead.

I'm also going to nominate Rhyperior to move down to A+, I'll give my reasons after the mega and zoroark ban has taken place as some of my points are theorymoning atm.

 

[Molk]

Something that i'd like to bring up is moving Vivillon down from B+ to B/B- rank.

Yes, Vivillon is perfectly capable of sweeping under the right circumstances, but honestly i feel its just a little bit too flawed to be in B+ rank for a few reasons.

Firstly and most importantly: Stealth Rock. Vivillon's 4x weakness to Stealth Rock is an absolute pain, and heavily reduces the amount of opportunities it has to switch in, set up, or sweep. This also means that it *NEEDS* either Rapid Spin or defog support by default, which is quite annoying. Of course, this didn't hold back other top threats such as Moltres and Yanmega, but its quite a problem for Vivillon imo since it simply isn't as immediately threatening as these two.

Secondly, frailty. Vivillon's defenses are quite bad, sitting at a pretty mediocre 80/50/50. This combined with Vivi's very poor Bug/Flying typing (really weak to common attacking types such as Electric, Ice, Rock, and Fire-type moves. makes it exceptionally hard to really switch into*anything* safely, even if Stealth Rock isn't up. These same bad defenses make it all the easier to snipe with priority moves too, although i guess it can use Substitute to get around Sucker Punch and resists Mach Punch so that's something i guess.

Something else that's quite annoying about Vivillon is its Speed tier. Base 89 Speed isn't bad by any means, but unboosted it puts vivi below a lot of common offensive threats, such as Meloetta, Moltres, Cobalion, Virizion, and Delphox. Even with a Quiver Dance boost under its belt, it can *still be revenge killed by scarf varients of these Pokemon quite easily (Choice Scarf Moltres, Delphox, and Meloetta in particular are quite annoying).

Combine the above 3 things with the fact that Rock Blast Rhyperior and Registeel in general are quite common at the moment and absolutely demolish it if sleep clause is in effect, and the fact that it needs to set up to be truely threatening because of decent but not amazing offensive stats, and you have something that fits the lower B ranks much better than B+ imo.

This isn't to say Vivillon is bad though, i know from experience it can definitely be threatening and sweep effectively with the proper support, but that's the thing: It needs much more support than the rest of B+ to work effectively because of these aforementioned flaws imo.

 

[x MAD AXES x]

I have only seen vivilion once and it looks like it has to run a sash to be able to quiver sweep, which means if you have rocks up on your field you are good as dead sure, you might put someone to sleep (which amoongus does better) and get one quiver up but like you said they have to hope they their team have eliminated all priority, all scarf user and even then 1 quiver dance isn't enough to OHKO bulky pokemon, actually looking at calcs unless you have sharpedo like defences, you aren't getting OHKOed unless it hits you super effectively which all it can run is hurricane and bug buzz since the other 2 slots are covered with sleep powder and quiver dance, I would even say drop it down to C+.

That is unless the meta changes where psychics are dominating after the mega and zoroark ban, if so I could see it at B-, which I think will happen.

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

I have only seen vivilion once and it looks like it has to run a sash to be able to quiver sweep, which means if you have rocks up on your field you are good as dead sure, you might put someone to sleep (which amoongus does better) and get one quiver up but like you said they have to hope they their team have eliminated all priority, all scarf user and even then 1 quiver dance isn't enough to OHKO bulky pokemon, actually looking at calcs unless you have sharpedo like defences, you aren't getting OHKOed unless it hits you super effectively which all it can run is hurricane and bug buzz since the other 2 slots are covered with sleep powder and quiver dance, I would even say drop it down to C+.

That is unless the meta changes where psychics are dominating after the mega and zoroark ban, if so I could see it at B-, which I think will happen.

Vivillon is usually a sub QDer with lefties or life orb. Send it in on something it threatens, like Hitmonlee, and go from there.

but I agree, its not as antimeta as it was in the Shuckle meta. Drop it to B/B- imo.

 

[phantom]

The thing about Durant is that it's one of those rare Pokemon that requires quite literally zero support to function, and any further support is simply auxiliary. Furthermore, Durant's speed tier is fantastic, getting one point above Cobalion and Virizion is huge, and the fact that its physical bulk lets it stomach a Close Combat from the two of them if need be then outspeed and KO back makes it very useful to have on balance. The physical bulk also makes it very resilient to priority, allowing it to easily survive both of Hitmonlee's Mach Punch and Druddigon's Sucker Punch, doing both is a very impressive feat met by few offensive Pokemon that possess that combination of speed, power, and bulk. Just based on the fact that it requires almost no support, that's already a good case to move it up; however, it also possess the distinct advantage of being able to smash through almost the entirety of the S through A rank on its own, which is great. I've been using CB Durant on a balanced team to bust through stall and revenge kill a couple of key threats here and there and I honestly think it's pretty good right now if not a key anti-meta threat. The only thing that would keep durant from moving further is that every single one of its moves has the same accuracy as Stone Edge; I think everyone can get the idea as to why this would suck. :| For now, I think keeping Durant at A- wouldn't hurt at all, although I could see it moving up once we actually start playing the post-Zoroark and Yanmega meta and not just basing the nominations on pure speculation.

 

[mallpal]

nominating yanma for somewhere in the b ranks. it's no longer outclassed by yanmega, and it p. much does the same thing but not as well b/c frailer and weaker.

 

[EonX]

Something I've been thinking about for a while, but what do you guys think of giving Pyroar a rank.

I know that Pyroar faces a lot of competition from Delphox and Moltres, but it does have a few advantages over them. First, and foremost would be its typing. Normal / Fire doesn't seem great, until you realize it beats up Doublade really well. It also has pretty good STAB coverage, like both Delphox and Moltres, but with an accurate option in tight situations, unlike Moltres. It doesn't have amazing coverage moves, but HP Grass and Dark Pulse give it a couple of things to work with. HP Grass is especially notable since that takes care of Rhyperior fairly well. Hyper Voice is able to get through Subs, which is something Delphox and Moltres can't do either. Now, obviously, Pyroar has some issues. It's weaker than both Delphox and Moltres, (not by a ton, but still) lacks any usable setup moves (Fox has CM and Tres has Agility) it has much less bulk than the other two, and is only slightly faster than Delphox (not enough to beat out the musketeers) However, its ability to hit Doublade without getting sniped by Shadow Sneak, a secondary STAB that is both accurate and capable of hitting through Subs, and decent enough coverage options warrant a spot in C-/C.

 

[Molk]

nominating yanma for somewhere in the b ranks. it's no longer outclassed by yanmega, and it p. much does the same thing but not as well b/c frailer and weaker.

I'm sorry but Yanma doesn't seem rankable at all to me. Simply put the difference in power is way too massive for Yanma to be *really* worth it. Yanma's base special attack is a piss poor base 75 compared to Yanmega's pretty great base 116 Special Attack stat. Looking at the damage difference, you'll see that Yanma isn't *nearly* as threatening.

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 195-230 (54 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanma Bug Buzz vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 146-173 (40.4 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Taking a look at this, you'll see that even Yanmega's absolute minimum damage roll is still stronger than Yanma's absolute maximum damage roll, there's definitely a noticeable power difference that makes or breaks Yanma here.

Not to mention that unlike Yanmega, Yanma doesn't have access to Tinted Lens and is limited to using Speed Boost cleaner sets to be worth a shot at all, but because of this mediocre power compared to both the now banned Yanmega and Sharpedo, increased vulnerability to priority moves and a harder time switching in because of lower bulk, and the fact that just like Yanmega it absolutely needs hazard control to work to its fullest, and you have a pretty poor Pokemon on your hands.

To sum it all up, Yanma is nowhere near the offensive powerhouse Yanmega was, and because requires all the same support that Yanmega needed for a much, MUCH lower payoff, it simply isn't worth it in the grand scheme of things, especially not worth B rank of all things.

 

[Stinson]

Something I've been thinking about for a while, but what do you guys think of giving Pyroar a rank.

I'm on the fence with this one, pyroar can be a huge threat if you are unprepared, 252+ allows it to reach a mighty 342 speed, which means it can outspeed things that seriously threaten it such as sharpedo (although that point is null if sharpedo is running protect), and deal some huge damage with it's choice specs, but lets be honest, things like sharpedo are too frail for it to be worth calcing, so I'm gonna throw in some calcs against the biggest specially defensive mons in the tier and show some reasons for and against Pyroar getting a rank.

252 SpA Choice Specs Pyroar Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 142-168 (36.1 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I thought this was pretty pathetic, especially as that isn't even 252+ Slowking. However:

252 SpA Choice Specs Pyroar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 56 SpD Aromatisse: 246-291 (60.5 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Aroma would've really liked to switch in on Pyroar and wish pass.

252 SpA Choice Specs Pyroar Hyper Voice vs. 104 HP / 156 SpD Alomomola: 279-328 (56.1 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I think this is the calc which puts most in Pyroar's favour for a rank, the huge damage from a STAB hyper voice means even max HP alomomola can't deal with it.

EonX nominated Pyroar for C rank, but if we look at the description of S rank pokemon, it says 'either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks'. I would say aside from being within mach punch range from hitmonlee after a hit from rocks, pyroar has no crippling flaws. I mean, it has flaws, such as the difficulty it has in bringing down specially defensive cofagrigus, slowking etc, and the fact that the only viable set it has is a specs or life orb one. However due to the access to a STAB hyper voice and the coverage to deal damage to ghost types which think they can switch in, I would be inclined to say Pyroar is not completely eclipsed by other specs users in the tier, and therefore by definition I am nominating it for B+.

 

[aVocado]

I'm on the fence with this one, pyroar can be a huge threat if you are unprepared, 252+ allows it to reach a mighty 342 speed, which means it can outspeed things that seriously threaten it such as sharpedo (although that point is null if sharpedo is running protect), and deal some huge damage with it's choice specs, but lets be honest, things like sharpedo are too frail for it to be worth calcing, so I'm gonna throw in some calcs against the biggest specially defensive mons in the tier and show some reasons for and against Pyroar getting a rank.

252 SpA Choice Specs Pyroar Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 142-168 (36.1 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I thought this was pretty pathetic, especially as that isn't even 252+ Slowking. However:

252 SpA Choice Specs Pyroar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 56 SpD Aromatisse: 246-291 (60.5 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Aroma would've really liked to switch in on Pyroar and wish pass.

252 SpA Choice Specs Pyroar Hyper Voice vs. 104 HP / 156 SpD Alomomola: 279-328 (56.1 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I think this is the calc which puts most in Pyroar's favour for a rank, the huge damage from a STAB hyper voice means even max HP alomomola can't deal with it.

EonX nominated Pyroar for C rank, but if we look at the description of S rank pokemon, it says 'either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks'. I would say aside from being within mach punch range from hitmonlee after a hit from rocks, pyroar has no crippling flaws. I mean, it has flaws, such as the difficulty it has in bringing down specially defensive cofagrigus, slowking etc, and the fact that the only viable set it has is a specs or life orb one. However due to the access to a STAB hyper voice and the coverage to deal damage to ghost types which think they can switch in, I would be inclined to say Pyroar is not completely eclipsed by other specs users in the tier, and therefore by definition I am nominating it for B+.

Those calcs that you posted honestly don't give me enough reason to use Pyroar. It doesn't 2HKO AV Slowking.. that's bad if anything. Its Specs Fire Blast 2HKOs physically defensive Aromatisse.. so does Moltres's and Delphox's. It has a secondary STAB option that 2HKOes Alomomola.. so does Moltres and Delphox (although in Delphox's case its not a STAB; just a coverage move)

Regarding your last paragraph, Pyroar is eclipsed entirely by another Pokemon, which is Delphox. It's a few points faster, but those points don't matter now that the only Pokemon that mattered in the 104-106 range is Zoroark, which is now banned. I guess there is also Mismagius which Pyroar can counter/check, but that's not really worth it.

Delphox on the other hand, has Calm Mind which can decimate stall, a more powerful Fire Blast and a better movepool thanks to Psychic/Psyshock and Grass Knot (this is huge). The only thing that Pyroar has which Delphox doesn't is the ability to hit through Substitutes, which isn't really all that worthwhile to be honest. C- is ideal for Pyroar if it's ever going to be ranked, I guess.

edit: @ below: yeah I also forgot pyroar can check doublade. That's nice I guess.

 

[HypnoEmpire]

Pyroar can switch into Doublade with relative ease while Moltres and Delphox can't, Delphox for obvious reasons and Moltres because Shadow Claw + Shadow Sneak KOs Moltres after Stealth Rock. Though I agree, Delphox outclasses it in most ways. Pyroar isn't actually that bad though. Being able to hit through Substitutes with a STAB move is cool and it has good power and speed. I would actually say Pyroar can fit C+ since it has enough to differentiate itself from other Fire-types in the tier and it can support itself well enough offensively. Also, basically every special attacker in the tier has trouble with AV Slowking, so I wouldn't say that makes it a bad Pokemon choice.

 

[CyclicCompound]

In response to Stinson, I would like to point out that B+ would not be an appropriate place to put Pyroar based on the performance of the other Pokemon in that rank. Within B+, we have Accelgor and Omastar, two of the best hazard leads in RU, Gurdurr and Fletchinder, two of the best setup sweepers in RU, and Exploud and Clawitzer, two of the most dangerous wallbreakers in RU. Despite what the definition of B rank might be, Pyroar compares very poorly to the Pokemon in that category, so I'd be very hesitant to place it there. In fact, looking at the rest of the Pokemon in B rank, Pyroar doesn't stand out to me as a Pokemon that has enough of a niche to be ranked there. Looking at B and B-, there are still way too many Pokemon with far more unique niches than Pyroar. Pyroar isn't necessary an awful Pokemon, but it really doesn't stand out in any notable way - it's an average special attacker that has very little to distinguish itself. This is further hurt by the fact that Moltres and Delphox exist, as Arikado pointed out. When placed next to these two RU titans, I see no real reason to use Pyroar despite how "usable" it may be, so I think C- is best for it. It may not have any "crippling flaws" of its own, but it is most definitely without a doubt "completely eclipsed" by Moltres and Delphox.

 

[Stinson]

I think I meant to put B-, but regardless your points still stand. This was my first contributive post in RU so I'm glad for the feedback.

Arikado the first calc was intended to point out a flaw in pyroar, that AV slowking totally walls it. After seeing the points raised here, I think C- or C is fine.

 

[ss234]

can someone pls tell me why whimsicott is so low, I get that the sub seed set is bad but life orb with moonblast + giga and some support moves is an excellent momentum mon, plus it's not a half bad switch in to hitmonlee, claw and rhyp which are all p dangerous pokes last time I looked. Mite not be the best mon in the metagame but c is far too low lol.

 

[Stinson]

I agree, I recently ran a really successful specs set with moonblast, giga drain, [bold]hurricane[/bold] and u-turn. I'll post some calcs along with a rank nom when I finish work.

 

[Mew2]

This looks like a risky move but I think Sharpedo deserves S rank:

Recent bans: Without Yanmega, Sharpedo doesn't face any competition as a Speed Boost cleaner, not to mention that Yanmega made Psychic types less viable, something that Sharpedo loves to take on and while Zoroark didn't threat Sharpedo in any way, Zoroark shifted the metagame in a way were bulky Fighting types like Gurdurr were common and without Zoro less people are running them on their teams.

Psychic dominance: With the recent bans, Psychic types are more powerful than ever and are getting really popular among high ranked players (Meloetta, Reuniculs and Cresselia all come to my mind) and Sharpedo can take care of them easily thanks to his Dark STAB in the form of Crunch or Dark Pulse.

Hyper offense resurrection: Thanks to amazing suicide leads like Lord Helix and Accelgor and spinblockers like Doublade and M-Banette hyper offense is becoming more viable and powerful and Sharpedo becomes a necessary team member for this type of teams not to mention how easily he cleans after a couple of layers of spikes and rocks. He is also a pain in the ass for opposing HO teams thanks to his high offenses and Speed Boost.

Lack of offensive checks: Thanks to Speed Boost, it's extremely difficult to offensively check Sharpedo without relying on priority *cough* Mach Punch *cough* and he can easily bypass common priority moves with Aqua Jet. In other words, if you lost your Sharpedo counter and your priority user is gone just say GG and leave with honor.

Unpredictability: Sharpedo has a bunch of options and he can easily go Physical, Mixed or full Special and access to coverage moves like Ice Beam and Earthquake as well as access to Destiny Bond makes Sharpedo one of the most unpredictable pokes in the whole RU meta.

STAB combo: Dark / Water STAB is one of the best STAB combinations in the entire game hitting almost every RU poke for at least neutral damage not to mention the amazing STAB moves Sharpedo gets like Hydro Pump, Waterfall, Crunch, Dark Pulse and even Aqua Jet that only it hits RU's bulkiest pokemon for super effective damage like Slowking, Rhyperior, Gligar and Doublade but it also crushes offensive pokes like Meloetta, Moltres and Delphox using his STABS.

 

[CyclicCompound]

While I agree with most of your above points, I don't think we can say for sure that Sharpedo is S-rank. The metagame just underwent a fairly sizable change with the departure of two of its most influential members, so the metagame will likely need a little bit of time to settle.

With that said, however, Sharpedo has several flaws that may keep it from becoming S-rank no matter how the metagame shifts. First and foremost, it has trash defensive stats that means it can be beat by priority other than Mach Punch, as even common Sucker Punch users can often 2HKO it at worst, especially factoring in Life Orb recoil. And contrary to what you said, it has several offensive checks that cannot be beat without significant prior damage: Cobalion, Shiftry, Escavalier, Drapion, Gurdurr, and Virizion are all common, hardy attackers that easily check most Sharpedo sets (and there are definitely more out there). And of course, there exist more than enough defensive checks, such as Alomomola, Amoonguss, Aromatisse, Tangrowth, and Registeel, to name a few. None of these Pokemon are particularly easy to beat - it's not like using Yanmega where you could pair it with a Dugtrio and have all of your checks basically melt away.

Again, regardless of anyone's thoughts, because of the recent metagame changes, I don't think it's wise to re-rank Sharpedo just yet. Even if Sharpedo looks like it could fill a lot of holes left by the recent bans, with so many Sharpedo checks lying around I think it's best to wait and see how influential Sharpedo becomes.

 

[Mew2]

With that said, however, Sharpedo has several flaws that may keep it from becoming S-rank no matter how the metagame shifts. First and foremost, it has trash defensive stats that means it can be beat by priority other than Mach Punch, as even common Sucker Punch users can often 2HKO it at worst, especially factoring in Life Orb recoil.

Not really, even with trash defenses Sharpedo can take most priority attacks:

252+ Atk Choice Band Druddigon Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sharpedo: 138-162 (49.1 - 57.6%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sharpedo: 96-113 (34.1 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sharpedo: 129-153 (45.9 - 54.4%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
4 Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sharpedo: 56-66 (19.9 - 23.4%) -- 99.4% chance to 4HKO after hail damage

Let's see how Yanmega (who just got banned) would take these hits:

252+ Atk Choice Band Druddigon Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Yanmega: 153-181 (48.8 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Yanmega: 107-126 (34.1 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Yanmega: 144-171 (46 - 54.6%) -- 57.8% chance to 2HKO
4 Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Yanmega: 126-150 (40.2 - 47.9%) -- 3.5% chance to 2HKO after hail damage

Like you can see, both take similar damage even tho Sharpedo has trash defenses. And you're right Sharpedo has some offensive checks but he is a cleaner he is supposed to come in when everything has taken prior damage it's not like you send Sharpedo early/ middle game. Any good player will agree with me, you should keep your Sharpedo as healthy as posibble and wait for the late game. Sorry if this post isn't great but I just wanted to keep some stuff clear :]

 

[CyclicCompound]

In addition to your calcs:
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sharpedo: 159-187 (56.5 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
228+ Atk Skuntank Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sharpedo: 114-134 (40.5 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Shiftry, Skuntank, Doublade, and Druddigon can all beat Sharpedo easily if they are at a healthy HP. Just because Sharpedo can "take" the priority attacks doesn't mean it can get past them.

In response to your last point, I am completely aware that Sharpedo should be saved for the late-game, but the point I was making was that Sharpedo's checks are nowhere near easy to dispose of. All of the Pokemon I listed are fairly hardy and can be expected to be able to be kept at a high HP until late in the game. Because of this, Sharpedo needs a relatively high level of support to function, and I don't think it's deserving of S-rank right now.

 

[skies]

+

​

B- ---> B
Togetic had been discussed of moving up during the last suspect test because it countered both of the suspected Pokemon extremely well, which gave it a set niche. NastyPass had also seen a rise in usage in this time, with the recipient often being Sharpedo. After testing this strategy, I gotta say, it's really scary. Togetic is so bulky, it lives the strongest hits. Some examples of these strong hits are Delphox's Fire Blast, Meloetta's Psyshock, and even Jolteon's Volt Switch! It's quite bulk on both sides with a solid 55 / 85 / 105 backed by Eviolite. Its typing gives it many unique resistances and two immunities, along with only a few weaknesses. Nasty Plot + Baton Pass is what gives it its huge niche, along with Roost and a respectable Dazzling Gleam. I recently tested a bulky offensive set with Dazzling Gleam / Fire Blast / Roost / Thunder Wave and it actually was pretty good, not as good as NastyPass, but it was good nonetheless. Defog sets are alright, as are bulkier sets, but I'm an offense player and those never appeal to me. I do think it's more comparable to Combusken on its level of support and belongs with it (or even above it), not with the likes of Hitmontop.

A+ ---> S
Sharpedo is really scary. It definitely deserves to move up imo, for all of the reasons Mew2 has said. There's not much more to add, but I will voice my support for this move and will also input my experience with NastyPass featuring Sharpedo. Passing to Sharpedo is really scary, it accumulates its own Speed and has the powerful moves to back it up. A simple set of Protect / Hydro Pump / Ice Beam / Dark Pulse hits practically everything super hard. Hell, even Specially Defensive Aromatisse is mowed over by +2 Hydro Pump w/ Spikes support and a bit of prior damage. Due to Sharpedo's frailty, it actually is great Togetic is so slow, it almost always ensures that Sharpedo gets in safely. Definitely supporting this move.

 

[x MAD AXES x]

it has several offensive checks that cannot be beat without significant prior damage: Cobalion, Shiftry, Escavalier, Drapion, Gurdurr, and Virizion are all common

252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Zen Headbutt vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 309-364 (95.3 - 112.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Drapion: 270-320 (96 - 113.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Sharpedo Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shiftry: 312-369 (97.1 - 114.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

These pokemon have to find out which set sharpedo is running before they can come in, as if sharpedo is running zen he isn't running earthquake so drapion can come in and vice versa, shiftry cant switch into special sharpedo and has trouble with mixed versions who can get rid of zen headbutt/earthquake for ice beam

104 SpA Life Orb Sharpedo Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shiftry: 273-322 (85 - 100.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

and Sharpedo shouldn't be staying into a priority mach punch user anyway but Cobalion, Escavalier and Gurdurr are checks (unless for some reason your running hp fire, please don't though). Not saying its S rank material I want to see the meta stabilize before we see any rise or drops.

 

[g]

While Sharpedo is certainly a very threatening Pokémon, especially against offense who really risks being swept as Aqua Jet does a ton to Hitmonlee amd kills Fletchinder before they use Mach Punch or Acrobatics and conventional checks like Virizion and Shiftry lose to Ice Beam or Poison Jab, and fits very well in one of the better playstyles (Spikes offense) I really don't think that with Zoroark and Yanmega away has gained enough to be bumped to S but I might well be wrong.

Pyroar probably has a place in C/C- as it is the best offensive check to Doublade (#1 in 1760 stats last time I checked) and has a surprisingly good STAB combination in the tier only really resisted by Rhyperior who doesn't enjoy switching into an Hidden Power Grass or Wisp. Taunt is another thing that makes it good on offense a preventing Defog for Spikes stacking teams in a pinch is awesome and makes it worth using over Delphox sometimes.

And bump Shiftry to B+ come on