Other OU Theorymon [Revamped]

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Credit to Zebraiken for the original idea
original: alexwolf
approved by alexwolf

Welcome to the Theorymon Project of 6th gen's OU. Here, every few days, we will be discussing a list of 4 Pokemon, all of which will have little to zero viability in OU, and all of which have an additional move / ability / typing that they didn’t originally have. After all the theorymons have been sufficiently discussed, the voting will commence, which will last exactly one day.

How will this list of Pokemon be created each time? I will be accepting ideas from the community and i may also put some of my own ideas into a relatively small slate (4-5 Pokemon) each time. Every Pokemon that wins on each voting will be recorded in the archive, together with the name of the person who submitted it.

At the end of every month, we will have roughly ~6 new Pokemon. And this is where things will get interesting: if we have enough participation and discussion going on, a ladder will be created with OU + the 6 Pokemon we made. After exactly one month, the ladder will be reset, the old 6 Pokemon will be removed, and the new Pokemon that we will have voted on and discussed during this month will take their place. Finally, the names of the top 3 players at the end of each month will be saved in the Hall Of Fame (this number may be increased depending on popularity).

NEW: The ladder has been created. If you want to play it, go to the battles format > OM of the Month > OU Theorymon, and then click Find Battle. All the new typings are set automatically, and you can choose manually the added moves or abilities even if they are listed as illegal. If a new Ability is added only for a Mega Evolution, then just pick the regular forme and upon MEvolving it will have it automatically.

REVAMP EDIT: alexwolf is no longer continuing this project, so PM / VM me your ideas from now on! Please improve on good posts, good suggestions, and activity! We don't want this thread to be shut down again, now do we? All the same rules apply of course!

If you want to talk about the ladder, you can do so here.

Here are some general rules that each theorymon suggestion should follow:
  • Don't suggest changes about Pokemon that are already pretty viable in OU. Of course the term 'pretty viable' is open to interpretation, so to be more specific, everything in C+ rank and below in the viability ranking thread is fair game.
  • Don’t suggest changes that make or may make a Pokemon broken
  • Only theorymon ideas that bring positives to the OU metagame and have useful implications will be picked, which means no Huge Power on random Pokemon and other similar buffs.
  • You can only add a secondary typing to Pokemon of one type, or change the second type of a dual-typed Pokemon. Eg. Adding a Grass type to Florges, or changing Togekiss from Fairy / Flying to Fairy / (insert other type)
  • Those changes should at the very least not contradict flavor. They don’t have to fit a Pokemon’s flavor perfectly, but don’t suggest a secondary Fire-type for Grass-types for example.
And here is a suggestion to make your theorymon more likely to get picked and give you a better idea of what we are looking for in this thread:
Also, an advice to anyone that wants to submit a theorymon. Don't suggest mindless offensive buffs. The metagame is already very offensive and we don't need more powerhouses, such as Boomburst Meloetta and Shell Smash Lapras. If you want to suggest something offensive, you should be sure that it adds something positive to the metagame and is not just one more powerful attacker. For example, Latios is a strong and fast special attacker that brings a lot to the table other than offensive presence, thanks to its good resistances, special bulk, and Defog.

For this reason, defensive buffs are more what i am looking for. Giving to not so viable Pokemon buffs that will allow them to successfully fill a defensive niche in the OU metagame. If your suggestion does that and doesn't contradict the flavor of the Pokemon, it's very likely to get slated. This doesn't mean that suggestions about offensive buffs won't get slated, just that i will be much more careful about them, and i will only pick them if they come along with some utility instead of sheer force.

So, please before submitting your suggestion, take a second to think about how this suggestion will fit in the metagame. This thread is not so that we can talk about mindless buffs to random Pokemon, but for us to find ways to improve the OU metagame by giving buffs to not so viable or completely unviable Pokemon.
Here's the current slate:

-TBA-

Archive:
none!
 
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First!


Anyway, I LOVED the OU theorymon thread, and can't wait to see all these fresh and new interesting ideas, and maybe I will submit ideas of my own!
 
Nice to see this back again. Are there any changes which have been made to keep this more interesting and to prevent this thread from dying again?
 
Sounds really interesting, can this thread be used for discussing general ideas regarding the topic or is it purely for submissions regarding specific pokemon?
 
It'll be like submissions ---> discuss submissions ---> vote on submissions ---> repeat :] You can talk about ideas in here as well, yes.
Ok, so secondary discussion about general ideas can be hosted here along with submissions, that's all I needed to know.

Guess I've got some stuff to start looking at.
 
I was THIS close to asking alex if I could make the new thread.........


But glad to see this back up (first actually job I had on Smogon if you can call it that). Look forward to working on this again :D
 
Sets:

Electivire (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Motor Drive
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SpA/252 Spe or 252 SpA/4 SpD/252 Spe or 252 Atk/4 SpA/252 Spe
Nature: Naive/Timid
-Thunderpunch/Discharge
-Flamethrower
-Psychic
-Ice Punch/Focus Blast/Earthquake/...

An electric STAB can be used to dismantle water and flying-types as a STAB move, always helpful. Flamethrower is good for Ferrothorn and Mega-Heracross. Psychic nails Fighting-types, and from there you've got options. Electivire outspends Mega-Garchomp and nails it with Ice Punch (after the turn of mega-evolving). Focus Blast can be used for Dark-types but is somewhat unreliable; Earthquake hits Victini, Chandelure, and so forth.

Basically, Electivire gets a buff to almost all its main moves and makes it usable. Earthquake and Wild Charge are the main ones that don't.


Seismitoad (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA/4 SpD/252 Spe
Nature: Modest
-Hydro Pump
-Earth Power
-Hidden Power Flying/Focus Blast/Sludge Wave
-Recover

This Seismitoad is designed to be used with Rain Support, as now it has STAB Earth Power to differentiate itself from Omastar and Ludicolo. Plus unlike these two, it has reliable recovery and can try to heal up to tank attacks after the rain fades or on predicted switches. Hydro Pump is the nuke, with great neutral coverage. Earth Power is more reliable against some other targets, such as Electric types besides Zapdos and Thundurus-T. HP Flying is good for hitting Grass-types, but is preferred over Sludge Wave as the two most common ones (M-Venusaur and Ferrothorn) take more damage from HP Flying and it hits Fighting-types reliably, such as Keldeo. Focus Blast is specifically for Ferrothorn. Sludge Wave hits Celebi and Fairy-types harder. I already explained Recover.
 
Glad to see this starting up again. Anyways gonna present my thoughts in hide tags cause why not(its gonna be incomplete for a while til i get it all written up
I honestly don't believe this is a big enough boon for Electivire. Electivire has amazing coverage, with the viable coverage options that it gets are(bolded ones are boosted): Flamethrower, Elemental Punches, Earthquake, Cross Chop, and Rock Slide. Let's see what Electivire's best set would probably be in OU:
Electivire @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive / Jolly / Naughty / Adamant Nature
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Flamethrower / Cross Chop / Earthquake / Iron Tail
- Flamethrower / Cross Chop / Earthquake / Iron Tail
Thunder Punch is stronger than Wild Charge after Sheer Force, which is pretty neat. The third slot is your coverage vs. Cross Chop hits Heatran, Ferrothorn, and Chansey. Earthquake hits Heatran, Mawile and Zard X(though you aint beating it if +1). Flamethrower hits Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Mawile and Scizor. Iron Tail purely beats Clefable.

This set has good coverage, however it still doesn't fix Electivire's unfortunate speed tier(95), which lets it be revenge killed rather easily, and mediocre bulk, as well as 4MSS so it misses out on a target depending what it chooses for coverage. To be quite frank I don't think Electivire would see OU usage with Sheer Force. (i might post some calcs later)

I don't know how I feel about this. It's basically Gastrodon with slightly more physical bulk and less special bulk. It gets knock off which is cool I guess.

Steel/Fairy Jirachi is interesting. On one hand it has a phenominal defensive typing, coupled with good 100/100/100 bulk. However its' strongest Fairy STAB is either Dazzling Gleam or Moonblast(event). Moonblast has a nice 60% chance to lower special attack thanks to serene grace. However, you miss out on moves such as Iron Head, Stealth Rock, Icy Wind and the Elemental Punches. Granted most of these moves are physical. Anyways I can see Superachi becoming a thing again, something like:

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe(filler spread)
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast / Flash Cannon
- Grass Knot / Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ground]

But yeah. Moonblast would be pretty nifty for Sp.Def Rachis but too bad it's illegal with iron head

Give Archeops any ability that isnt Defeatist and it will be good. In the case of vital spirit you can completely counterlead looms. You die to a lot of priority but you're going to be nuking shit left and right.
 
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Steel/Fairy Jirachi looks the most interesting. Steel Fairy is currently the only existing type combination that resists the attack combination of dark/fairy, and it also currently belongs to only the suspect Mawile, and the subpar Klefki. On top of this, Fairy typing transforms Moon Blast from a niche coverage move into a STAB move with a 60% chance of reducing the enemy's special attack, which meshes perfectly with calm mind, a common Jirachi set. You're now also resistant to pursuit and knock off rather than weak to it while keeping the fighting neutrality.
 
Sheer Force Electivire: Sheer Force is okay, but the only notable moves it gets boosts on are the elemental punches. Thunder Punch isn't that much more powerful than Wild Charge even with the Sheer Force boost, so I don't see the ability dramatically helping Electivire.

Seismitoad + Recover: Seismitoad basically becomes a buffed Gastrodon with Knock Off and Stealth Rock. I don't know if this is really amazing, but it sounds interesting.

Steel / Fairy Jirachi: I suggested this, so I'm probably a little biased towards it. Jirachi sheds that crappy Psychic typing for a good Fairy type. Jirachi loses the Ghost and Dark weaknesses and gains a resistance to Dark and a 4x resistance to Bug at the cost of only losing its resistance to Steel type attacks and only being 2x resistant to Psychic instead of 4x. It can now stop threats like Bisharp and TTar without EQ.

Vital Spirit Archeops: Definitely the most powerful of the four. My only concern is that 140 attack with 110 speed seems a little overpowered with no negative ability, especially since Archeops gets STAB Head Smash which can nuke almost anything which doesn't resist it. Combine that with Knock Off and Switcheroo along with numerous support options like Taunt, Stealth Rock, and Defog, and it just seems a little too good for OU.

StairFall, Jirachi doesn't learn Moonblast unfortunately.
 
Yeah!!! Discussion!

Sheer Force Electivire: A mon cursed with fairly decent coverage but slightly underwhelming power but no longer! With access to the elemental Punches (T-Punch now outdamages Wild Charge, making you no longer need to take recoil) other accessory moves and the like, Electivire now make pack a punch and even more of one with a LO equipped. We've seen what happens when using the SF + LO combo with special monsin the OU Tier but to test it with a Physical one makes this exciting as well (not to mention the fact Electivire can easily go special attacker if it wishes). Its flaws are still their in low speed, missing out on the electric immunity of Motor Drive and all, but it will become a threat to be trifled with at the least instead of a simple joke.

Recover Seismitoad: basically a less bulky Swampert with an immunity (not grass sadly) and now with recovery and for now (Mega Swamp inbound of course) access to Swift Swim. He would be one of Rain's better assets with offensive pressure and the ability to recover himself and act as a defensive mon as needed. He competes with many in the utility role tho,, as Quagsire fills a niche of bulky water better due to unaware, but it in turn actually has access to SR to use. Basically I see Seis gaining some new life in SS teams just due to the fact he can begin acting as a defensive mon if/when the rain ends or is still in effect.

Steel/Fairy Jirachi : Only issue i'll have with this is that lot of Jirachi's moves come via move tutor (or more used ones) and its only getting moonblast via event...Other than that, stupidly good defensive typing with back to its status last gen pretty much. Just wonder how best this thing will go as it has a lot that it can do.

Vital Spirit Archeops: This could be evil, nice lead to fight Breloom, doesn't get useless after 50%, but it wont be game breaking. It still cant abuse its Flying STAB well but the idea of this thing being throughout the match makes me think of it just being a slightly less bulky Mega Aero with almost worsese utility (cant be defensive and offensive in one set, cant get past somemons like he can, etc.) so he is my least liked of the slate cause I don't know how well he can get out of Mega Aero's shadow.
 
I really like Vital Spirit Archeops. Maybe it's just a combination of Defeatist being stupid and the fact that it looks like it has ADHD and can't sit still but whatever. It would work greatly as an anti-Smeargle lead with Taunt and an immunity to Spore.

I can't see Seismitoad being too great as an offensive set just due to the fact that this stupid thing can't learn Waterfall, but maybe a defensive set somewhat like Swampert would work. It has similar bulk, same typing and uses Stealth Rock, and it's actually way faster than Swampert. I might post a set here later but I'm on my phone and can't do calculations u-u

Jirachi looks pretty interesting. That might bring the special set up in viability since Moonblast will be a thing, but that's about it. It is a fantastic typing however, and with Serene Grace, the SpA drop on Moonblast would happen more often. So maybe a physically bulky set would work. I'd have to think of a set ._.

Electrvire is pretty decent with Motor Drive anyways in lower tiers. Maybe Sheer Force will make a special set more viable? It doesn't really get many moves that help it. I think it gets Rock Slide and the elemental Punches, but I'd probably need to familiarize myself a little more with this Pokemon before I make a move.

Happy Theorymoning!
 
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Our FIRST Slate :D
  • Sheer Force Electivire
  • Seismitoad
    + Recover
  • Steel / Fairy Jirachi
  • Vital Spirit Archeops
Hey man, for good credibility, we should give credit to the creators of the idea.

I'm probably biased here because we already discussed this between the council members, but I think vital spirit helps archeops a ton. No defeatist is just legendary. Vital spirit is also nice flavor wise too. As a matter of fact, with no defeatist, stealth rocks aren't as much as a problem. Archeops can consistently hit a good chunk of non priority users meta. Stone edge will be literally the scariest STAB ever, as well as earthquake for good coverage (gotta get dat edgequake).
 
Hey man, for good credibility, we should give credit to the creators of the idea.

I'm probably biased here because we already discussed this between the council members, but I think vital spirit helps archeops a ton. No defeatist is just legendary. Vital spirit is also nice flavor wise too. As a matter of fact, with no defeatist, stealth rocks aren't as much as a problem. Archeops can consistently hit a good chunk of non priority users meta. Stone edge will be literally the scariest STAB ever, as well as earthquake for good coverage (gotta get dat edgequake).
Yet will he be able to differentiate himself enough from Mega Aero? Yes I realize its being to be run over a Mon that takes a Mega Slot but the fact Aero can run Adamant and actually deal with a lot of powerful threats alongside serve a defensive role I don't know if its quite my favorite and all.
 
Yet will he be able to differentiate himself enough from Mega Aero? Yes I realize its being to be run over a Mon that takes a Mega Slot but the fact Aero can run Adamant and actually deal with a lot of powerful threats alongside serve a defensive role I don't know if its quite my favorite and all.
Yeah, that is a big problem. However, archeops can hold a choice band or LO, while mega aero cant, and will hit harder than mega aero could at the max. Alongside this, it gets fucking head smash. That is a base 275 power (with STAB) move that hits harder than mega aeros stone edge. This thing will be stupidly powerful without having to become absolute crap once it's knocked under 50%
 
non-defeatist archeops is a threat in itself, but thats where the benefits end. sash loom, the most common user of spore, beats it, and amoonguss foul plays it. although it doesnt ohko, it does a number. anyways, new sets for archeops

Archeops @ Leftovers
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Roost
- Stone Edge
- Taunt
- Earthquake

aerodactyls fellow fossil bird stall breaker

anyways, archeops is far too frail to make running defensive EVs worthwhile, so just maximum speed and power. archeops is really fucking strong without a boosting item, and it has great coverage. it might be a little on the frail side, but nonetheless it works(in theory)

a mixed wall breaker set inc

Archeops @ Life Orb
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Heat Wave
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- Earth Power

working on the EVs atm, basically coverage+power+knock off

and finally, here's an SR pivot set(somewhat outclassed by lando-t)


Archeops @ Leftovers
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 248 HP / 124 Atk / 136 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
- Roost

sets SR, takes mega pinsir(EV'd specifically to avoid a 2hko from CC) and has recovery, an advantage over lando-t. they have base 145 attack stats, which is absolutely massive. lando-t has intimidate, so it is bulkier, and has less 4mss. archeops pretty much beats bird spam, and has great pivoting potential. i would actually love to test this out, so lets hope this thread has good activity.

now for a double dance set, working on evs so just a simple 252/252 spread

Archeops @ Life Orb/No Item
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Hone Claws
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake/Acrobatics
archeops is strong. now its faster AND strong. hone claws means stone edge actually hits, and rock polish allows it to demolish offensive teams. acrobatics is slashed because strong flying STAB. faces competition from lando-t yet again, but i want to test this out too.

here's some choice sets:

Archeops @ Choice Band
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Aqua Tail/U-turn
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
wow. the power is too fucking real. like what can legit switch into this thing without getting 70% ripped off? head smash is all you really need, but we have 3 other moveslots that allow us to not kill ourselves. aqua tail allows us to beat lando/scor/etc without taking calamitous recoil. knock off because its knock off. earthquake because head quake.

here's a scarf set

Archeops @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- U-turn/Aqua Tail
- Head Smash
- Earthquake

still hard to switch into, but not as hard. has knock off, u-turn, and earthquake. just read the band description for more info.

now onto electivire. electivire had the coverage, but was piss weak. now it has sheer force, and its a fucking monster. it can break so much shit its not even funny. it can single-handedly break almost every wall in OU:


96 Atk Life Orb Electivire Cross Chop vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 322-380 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

212+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Electivire Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Alomomola: 788-928 (147.5 - 173.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO(actually ohkos by a good margin)

212+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Electivire Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 507-601 (128.6 - 152.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

96 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Electivire Ice Punch vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 395-468 (112.2 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

212+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Electivire Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 564-665 (168.8 - 199.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

96 Atk Life Orb Electivire Earthquake vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 221-263 (66.3 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

96 Atk Life Orb Electivire Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 463-546 (120.2 - 141.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

96 Atk Life Orb Electivire Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Victini: 242-286 (60 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

96 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Electivire Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 148-177 (38.9 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery(literally one of the few things not broken, and it needs just a bit of prior chip damage, not to mention you could run flamethrower)

venusaur walls it no matter what it runs, only thing that does this, apart from mixed clefable and physically defensive sylveon spreads

96 Atk Life Orb Electivire Cross Chop vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 164-195 (46.5 - 55.3%) -- 15.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery(just a bit of prior chip damage)

96 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Electivire Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 216-255 (50 - 59%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery(this is max def a moon)

so a guess you are tired of all the calcs? heres the set.

Electivire @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 96 Atk / 212 SpA / 200 Spe
Rash Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch/Flamethrower/Iron Tail/Rock Slide
- Cross Chop

just pick what cores you want to break. EVs are to 2HKO chansey, and speed jumps exca. just pick and choose what to break.

gonna say that special based mix outclasses pure physical because a. its stronger and b. it breaks the same stuff in 2 hits instead of 1 and c. its hit by intimidate and burns harder than special

i'm not a defensively minded player, but seismitoad+recovery=good. physically defensive spreads with water absorb bone keldeo, azumarill, and some other misc shit. i'll add more description once i feel like it, but here's a set

Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Recover
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Earth Power

scald for burning and shit, SR because its SR, and earth power so u don't have to run a -speed nature. i'll add more if i can test it.

now for jirachi, i'm not really defensively versed, but steel+fairy jirachi is godlike imo. you can counter bisharp w/ a physically defensive spread, beat garde w/ a specially defensive spread, but 4 now, i'll just post a set

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast(a moonblast jirachi came from an event in japan http://www.serebii.net/events/2014.shtml scroll down till you see it)
- Protect

basically, an improved(somewhat) version of CM clefable. mono-fairy is good enough coverage, can cleric/heal for itself, and can check gardevoir if it gets a CM up. its a shaky garde check, but it works.

thats all for now, i want this to be a ladder
 
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Yeah, that is a big problem. However, archeops can hold a choice band or LO, while mega aero cant, and will hit harder than mega aero could at the max. Alongside this, it gets fucking head smash. That is a base 275 power (with STAB) move that hits harder than mega aeros stone edge. This thing will be stupidly powerful without having to become absolute crap once it's knocked under 50%
Yah Head Smash but with base 75 HP univested that's not helping a lot of people. Still, I think it will be powerful but just saying my two cents :P
 
So, everyone knows about electivire's great coverage, and this would probably do a lot for it. I'll post some relevant calcs when I'm able, but the biggest things for me are no more recoil from STAB, and that fantastic SE coverage will be even harder to switch into

Seismitoad doesn't ring as a swift swimmer to me. I'd use water absorb and use it more like people use quagsire. Maybe a toxic staller? I'll have to think about it.

Fairy's obviously better typing than psychic, but what exactly does it do with it? It still has fast fire types and bulky ground types that make it run scared. Without aegislash, that ghost weakness isn't so bad, but dark resistance will be helpful. All in all, this will just make him a more effective support mon, which is good, but not interesting.

Archeops makes me giddy. It can now afford a life orb, so it can sweep some. It no longer sucks without defog support, so it can realistically support with U-Turn, and a lot more. It still misses that flying gem for flying stab, but its move pool is so much better than aerodactyl that it can probably manage with just what it has
 
So, everyone knows about electivire's great coverage, and this would probably do a lot for it. I'll post some relevant calcs when I'm able, but the biggest things for me are no more recoil from STAB, and that fantastic SE coverage will be even harder to switch into

Seismitoad doesn't ring as a swift swimmer to me. I'd use water absorb and use it more like people use quagsire. Maybe a toxic staller? I'll have to think about it.

Fairy's obviously better typing than psychic, but what exactly does it do with it? It still has fast fire types and bulky ground types that make it run scared. Without aegislash, that ghost weakness isn't so bad, but dark resistance will be helpful. All in all, this will just make him a more effective support mon, which is good, but not interesting.

Archeops makes me giddy. It can now afford a life orb, so it can sweep some. It no longer sucks without defog support, so it can realistically support with U-Turn, and a lot more. It still misses that flying gem for flying stab, but its move pool is so much better than aerodactyl that it can probably manage with just what it has
To answer your question about jirachi: KNOCK OFF


Like literally. That's the whole entire reason I lost my marbles when I was giving red cat feedback. It loses its item, yeah, but pokemon like bisharp rely on knock off as a STAB. I also want to say, it's not weak to any priority super effectively now, which means sucker punch is now a dumb play against it. On top of all this, it now counters prominent threats such as mandibuzz and mega venusaur
 
My only problem with Electivire is that nothing has really changed in terms of how he plays. He has way more power now and no LO recoil, but he still runs the exact same moves and the exact same spread. Archeops is a much much better offensive change, because now the actual way he plays has changed. He can switch into SR as much as he wants, he doesn't care if he drops below half. He can use head smash as a last resort without its power being axed in half, and now he's capable of much more liberal U-turn use. Choice set potential just sky rocketed. His new ability makes him a potential check to breloom and M-venu, plus he's just really cool.
 
Archeops Life Orb
Adamant/Jolly
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 Atk 252 Spd 4 SDef
-Head Smash/Stone Edge
-Earthquake
-U-Turn
-Roost

LO STAB Head Smash coming off 140 base attack. Nuff said
 
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