XY Ubers Ubers stall

[AlphaNeria]

I built this team because of the sheer amount of varied and insane threats on the ladder. Everyone out there knows how crazy things can be. Things such as switching in Ferrothorn on Zekrom only to be met by Substitute + Hone Claws, or EQ Rayquaza (who the heck runs this anyway), and so on, leads to a very treacherous metagame in which one bad turn leads to a sweep. Trying to handle this metagame I originally tried some of Donkey's stall teams, but they didn't work very well, and as I tweaked around eventually this team happened.

This team got me to ~1450 ELO pretty smoothly and I don't doubt if I keep playing it can go significantly higher, but another part of me is happy with the team and is ready to build a new team :)

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

I think every team needs Stealth Rock, and Landorus-T is one of the more reliable SR setters in the tier. Having Intimidate helps a lot too if I for example judge a Ghost Arceus to be CM instead of SD. Checks a lot of physical threats in the tier, including Blaziken, Mega Kangaskhan, and more. The set is rather standard. I miss having U-turn and Knock Off, but the other moves are just too valuable to give up ...

I have been considering Lugia instead of Landorus-T. It's the other Great Wall in the Ubers tier, and it would help against Rayquaza (more on this at the end of the RMT). However I will miss out on Stealth Rock (this same issue applies to almost all other physically defensive walls I could use, such as Yveltal). I could slot that onto Blissey instead over Aromatherapy, but I lose all the utility associated with that move. Opinions?

Scizor (F) @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 244 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- Defog
- Roost

Xerneas check #1. I took the specially defensive spread off Donkey's team, which is actually very sensible since it helps Scizor survive Xerneas's Moonblasts. Defog is necessary because, again, of the sheer amount of crazy threats out there. Losing because of Sticky Web (which incapacitates 2/6 of my team's Pokemon, even though it is a stall team) is very annoying, as is Toxic Spikes. Bullet Punch provides some priority to check Pokemon such as EKiller if my other checks fail. Roost has been rather underwhelming for me since I seldom get the chance to use it, but it feels rather disturbing to not have instant recovery on a defensive Pokemon that has it available, so ...

Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Tail

Physical check #2. Landorus-T is great and all that but lacking reliable recovery means it's not THAT reliable and can be worn down. Giratina's titanic defenses means it can take things like LO Brave Bird from Ho-Oh. It's a great initial switch-in to Mewtwo, tanking Psystrike without problems and even Ice Beam doesn't do THAT much. MMX is outright walled. There's nothing more to say about this set, it's a very reliable wall that can even check special attackers in a pinch.

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Aromatherapy
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic

Xerneas check #2. There's nothing much to say about Blissey, it just walls almost every special attacker out there. Switches into Palkia with generally no problems, which is important since Palkia is one of the most common switch-ins to Kyogre. Aromatherapy is helpful to sometimes wake my Giratina up or to cure Scizor of burn, Landorus-T of toxic, and paralysis off Kyogre. Seismic Toss to do consistent damage. Yes it does leave me more vulnerable to Mega Gengar, but I'm not afraid of that Pokemon. Blissey instead of Chansey because I like having Leftovers recovery. There're also a fair amount of Knock Off users out there (including me, since I have that move on Scizor).

Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Surf
- Thunder
- Ice Beam

Kyogre is usually a revenge killer that can eventually sweep. It packs the most immediate power out of all Scarf Pokemon. Being able to kill Arceus from 100% HP, or Mewtwo, etc, is a big boon. The rain is usually appreciated too - softens Scizor's fire weakness and Ho-Oh's Sacred Fires (which is great since Ho-Oh is such a threatening Pokemon). Water sweepers, which are usually special, are generally covered well by Blissey even in the rain. Not much more to say about Kyogre. It kills stuff.

Zekrom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Outrage
- Volt Switch
- Draco Meteor

Who the heck runs two Choice Scarf Pokemon!?!? Well, the problem is that there are so many varied threats out there that I find often one Scarfed revenge killer isn't enough, especially since there are many threats that Kyogre cannot revenge kill, and even more so since Kyogre can be paralyzed, weakened (aka. weak Water Spout, although Surf is still big damage), and so on. The second Choice Scarfer gives me some security in that respect. Zekrom also breaks through CM RestTalk Kyogre + CM Refresh Water Arceus, which the rest of my team cannot handle, and can switch in on Ho-Oh's Brave Bird while threatening a return kill.

Short threat list:
You'll note that this team carries multiple checks to the tier's most dangerous Pokemon. This is by design. GeoXern for example is incredibly dangerous with the capability of running lots of different coverage moves. I don't want to be swept if my only check is weakened or if it has the coverage to kill that check, so I have two Xerneas checks. The same goes for EKiller (Shadow Force + Lum Berry / Will-O-Wisp miss breaks through Giratina, for example, as does simply attacking Giratina such that it's low on HP before bringing in Arceus). For other threats, in the worst case scenario, I have two Choice Scarfed Pokemon that can usually revenge everything.

Nonetheless there are still some points this team could use help with:

1) I want to include a SubPlot Darkrai somewhere. Main reason is to deal with the stupid Baton Pass team out there which I'm sure everyone is familiar with. The idea is to lead with Darkrai and set up while Scolipede accumulates its speed boosts, then sweep everything. The threat of Sleep helps a lot as well. Darkrai would also be helpful against other stall teams since I don't exactly have much offensive power on this team (stall is bound to have Zekrom and Kyogre that can't boost their offenses covered). Finally Darkrai would put in work against things like Shuckle and Smeargle leads before they can get whatever their strategy is going, and could also serve as a last-ditch check to many Pokemon. SubPlot Darkrai can even sweep Xerneas if RNG works in its favour.

2) I also want to include a Ditto somewhere, just so I never get swept by the crazy threats on the ladder again. There are so many unconventional sets out there that sweep everything based off one free turn. For example I have two pretty reliable Xerneas checks but I've still been swept by a Xerneas who had Psyshock + Substitute + Moonblast + Geomancy, he Sub'ed on my Blissey and then swept through Scizor. Jeez. Ditto would be the ultimate "screw you all" to these set up sweepers. I've been considering replacing Kyogre with Ditto, but the power loss is immense. Zekrom's up-front damage is simply not comparable to Kyogre's.

3) Of the more mainstream threats the biggest one I've encountered is Rayquaza. If it gets a free turn off e.g. Blissey, I'm in trouble. It survives Scizor's Bullet Punch, it survives Landorus-T's Stone Edge and can get a second SD off it. I pretty much have to revenge it. Ouch. I have two revenge killers for a reason, but to have to use a revenge killer since none of my walls can handle Rayquaza is not good. The obvious way to fix this problem would be to use a physically defensive fairy in place of one of the walls, but both walls are important to check the far more common EKiller (and I have to have two checks to it, since one is often not enough). Any ideas?

4) Mega Gengar is another threat to this team, obviously, and it gets free switches into Blissey. I simply deal with it. If I'm able to predict the incoming Mega Gengar and switch to one of my Scarfers, great, but if not, I still have two Scarfed Pokemon and a Scizor to revenge whatever my opponent sets up with. It is a threat, but not one that I'm as concerned about as Rayquaza.

And that's it. Comments appreciated!

 

[ApplepieFTW]

placeholder, no sniping this time n-n
will edit in rate later
haxiom sukkit imo
:]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

 

[haxiom]

Hey AlphaNeria,

This is a solid team. That said, there are a number of issues that lessen the teams effectiveness. One of the two major weaknesses of the team is Yveltal. It is able to threaten and break through the majority of the team, using taunt to bypass Blissey and a powerful priority Sucker Punch to break Kyogre and Zekrom if they are weak enough, while nothing really switches in to its moves all that well. The second major weakness I can see is opposing stall, seeing as you don't really have a quick way to overwhelm it and you will be locked in a stall war, unless of course the opposing stall team has a stallbreaker in which case you will most likely lose. Also, I mean I guess you lose to some stallbreakers like SD Ray and Darkrai stuff like you said, but this is difficult to avoid on stall teams.

I do have a few suggestions for this team. The first suggestion I have is to run Ghostceus over Giratina. Giratina is not really that good this Gen, and Lando-T already does a good job of checking Blaziken. Running Ghostceus is going to give you a lot more reliability versus things like Mewtwo. Due the the fact that you have Ghostceus dealing with Mewtwo, this much lessens the need to be running dual scarfers, if scarfers at all. Because you do lose some security versus Kyogre, I suggest that you run a Specially Defensive Kyogre over your current Scarf set. Next, I suggest you use Sylveon over Blissey, because this helps you beat Yveltal better, and will help aid Lando-T by providing it with Wish support. At this point, you still have not quite figured out the stallbreaking problem, so you could try a few things. One possibility is running Gliscor over Lando-T, which is good at breaking stall, or alternately you could run some sort of mixed Zekrom. Both of these are potential options. Finally, you now have defog on Arceus, so you can afford to run Toxic and Pursuit on Scizor over Knock Off and Defog, which will help versus CM Arceus and Gengar, which threatens Sylveon and even Kyogre to a lesser extent.

Sets

Arceus @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog

Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell

Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Roar
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 Spd
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Substitute / Taunt / Roost
- Toxic
- Earthquake

Zekrom @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Tailwind

OPTIMIZATION:

Lando-T: 248 HP is optimal for a better hazard/status number, you could definitely speed creep more if you want though

Scizor: Bullet Punch / Pursuit / Roost / Toxic

Kyogre: 4 (S)Def > 4 HP

Blissey: Shed Shell is the only reason you should use blissey to escape from stag mons.

Good luck!

ApplepieFTW wow lame

 

[Krauersaut]

Reserved for rate n_n, let's see what Haxiom missed.

 

[tutterydiglett]

Hi AlphaNeria p cool team

I second Haxiom's suggestion to change Blissey -> Sylveon and Scarf Ogre -> Bulky RestTalk. However, I don't see how LO Zekrom would help your team. Scarfed variants tend to be much more reliable.
Another nitpicky thing I would like to suggest is to change the speed EVS on Lando-T to 88 EVS. This allows you to outspeed most Ho-ohs who speed creep.
Also, you definitely want to remove Dragon Tail on Giratina (if you're not going to use Ghostceus). Roar is much, much better this gen due to the existence of Xerneas. With Dragon Tail, your opponent can easily set up Geo and just steamroll through your team if your checks have been removed. Dragon Tail's accuracy also sucks and the damage is terribad.

 

[haxiom]

Hi AlphaNeria p cool team

I second Haxiom's suggestion to change Blissey -> Sylveon and Scarf Ogre -> Bulky RestTalk. However, I don't see how LO Zekrom would help your team. Scarfed variants tend to be much more reliable.
Another nitpicky thing I would like to suggest is to change the speed EVS on Lando-T to 88 EVS. This allows you to outspeed most Ho-ohs who speed creep.
Also, you definitely want to remove Dragon Tail on Giratina (if you're not going to use Ghostceus). Roar is much, much better this gen due to the existence of Xerneas. With Dragon Tail, your opponent can easily set up Geo and just steamroll through your team if your checks have been removed. Dragon Tail's accuracy also sucks and the damage is terribad.

Eh my thought process was that mixkrom beats stall better, imo gliscor is the better change unless you are that afraid of ho-oh. Idk about roar because you choose between being geoxern setup bait and taunt bait, I feel like Scizor and Kyogre should fare p well vs xern while taunt is annoying for stall but meh.

On phone, soz for grammar and stuff.

 

[tutterydiglett]

Eh my thought process was that mixkrom beats stall better, imo gliscor is the better change unless you are that afraid of ho-oh. Idk about roar because you choose between being geoxern setup bait and taunt bait, I feel like Scizor and Kyogre should fare p well vs xern while taunt is annoying for stall but meh.

On phone, soz for grammar and stuff.

well you wouldn't stay in on a taunt user w/ gira anyway might as well use roar in case of geo xern *~*

 

[AlphaNeria]

Hi haxiom,

Thanks for the rate. Yveltal isn't that big of a threat actually since Blissey walls it nicely: Foul Play does zilch for damage while Oblivion Wing and Dark Pulse just slide off Blissey's endless rolls of fat like nothing. Sucker Punch would actually do damage, if I attacked it, which I usually wont. It could Taunt, but then I could still alternate Seismic Toss and Softboiled. Plus if it gets predictable it's not too difficult to switch out to Landorus-T for the Intimidate (back to Blissey to absorb the Dark Pulse) or to either Scarfer, both of whom OHKO while surviving Sucker Punch even after SR.

I'll give Ghost Arceus a try. Losing the Fire / Water / Electric / Grass resist will undoubtedly hurt, as will losing Leftovers recovery, but losing the Ice and Dragon weakness can only be good. Good point too about how that opens up a slot on Scizor's moveset. Scizor has no lack of useful moves to run so that will undoubtedly help. About Sylveon, I'm actually skeptical because Blissey does wall almost all special attackers that Sylveon cannot. For example, Electric Arceus would break through Sylveon, but not Blissey. Palkia with Thunder would be troublesome especially in the rain, and so on. I've certainly had games where Landorus-T could use the Wish support, but Blissey can provide that too. SpD Kyogre is a Pokemon I've yet to try, although I've faced several of them. It's something I'll experiment with.

If I use Gliscor over Landorus-T I'd be crushed by Blaziken? Landorus-T is already a rather shaky check to Blaziken to be honest, I've had games where I switch in as he SDs, then EQ as he Baton Passes, and then I lose a Pokemon. Finally I'm really not afraid of Mega Gengar (in maybe 100+ ladder games with Blissey it's only ever gotten trapped like once, and I have two revenge killers) so screw Shed Shell.

Thanks for the rate! I'll try out some of your suggestions when I get the chance.

justinjiaxinghu - Dragon Tail gets valuable chip damage, while Roar does not. Xerneas can come in and set up, but I do have Blissey + Scizor for a reason. The damage done by Dragon Tail isn't too bad; things like 20% damage onto Kyogre quickly adds up if Stealth Rock is up. I think Dragon Tail is in general better than Roar.

 

[haxiom]

Hi haxiom,

Thanks for the rate. Yveltal isn't that big of a threat actually since Blissey walls it nicely: Foul Play does zilch for damage while Oblivion Wing and Dark Pulse just slide off Blissey's endless rolls of fat like nothing. Sucker Punch would actually do damage, if I attacked it, which I usually wont. It could Taunt, but then I could still alternate Seismic Toss and Softboiled. Plus if it gets predictable it's not too difficult to switch out to Landorus-T for the Intimidate (back to Blissey to absorb the Dark Pulse) or to either Scarfer, both of whom OHKO while surviving Sucker Punch even after SR.

I'll give Ghost Arceus a try. Losing the Fire / Water / Electric / Grass resist will undoubtedly hurt, as will losing Leftovers recovery, but losing the Ice and Dragon weakness can only be good. Good point too about how that opens up a slot on Scizor's moveset. Scizor has no lack of useful moves to run so that will undoubtedly help. About Sylveon, I'm actually skeptical because Blissey does wall almost all special attackers that Sylveon cannot. For example, Electric Arceus would break through Sylveon, but not Blissey. Palkia with Thunder would be troublesome especially in the rain, and so on. I've certainly had games where Landorus-T could use the Wish support, but Blissey can provide that too. SpD Kyogre is a Pokemon I've yet to try, although I've faced several of them. It's something I'll experiment with.

If I use Gliscor over Landorus-T I'd be crushed by Blaziken? Landorus-T is already a rather shaky check to Blaziken to be honest, I've had games where I switch in as he SDs, then EQ as he Baton Passes, and then I lose a Pokemon. Finally I'm really not afraid of Mega Gengar (in maybe 100+ ladder games with Blissey it's only ever gotten trapped like once, and I have two revenge killers) so screw Shed Shell.

Thanks for the rate! I'll try out some of your suggestions when I get the chance.

justinjiaxinghu - Dragon Tail gets valuable chip damage, while Roar does not. Xerneas can come in and set up, but I do have Blissey + Scizor for a reason. The damage done by Dragon Tail isn't too bad; things like 20% damage onto Kyogre quickly adds up if Stealth Rock is up. I think Dragon Tail is in general better than Roar.

Yveltal taunts and breaks through Blissey easily, as it can either spam owing or sucker. As for sylveon, it makes you firstly not lose to yveltal, and second provides both wish support AND cleric. Palkia's thunder doesn't do much to sylveon, and toxic scizor enables you to beat cm electiceus. Gliscor deals with Blaziken fairly well, in a pinch you can just get rain up and the bp set is not common at all. You could say the same for any check, since it just passes out to ultimately the same result. The Blissey argument is not valid as the only reason to use blissey is shed shell and just because your opps can't play well does not mean you are not stag weak. Also you revenge killers don't matter as 1) Gengar can switch and 2) the point is that you lose your check to x so x can sweep now.

EDIT: @ below, I still disagree, you can ask another established player if you want idc I'm not in the mood to argue rn feel free to pm me though.

 

[AlphaNeria]

Just a quick response (don't have much time):

Yveltal Taunt does not break through Blissey, because I can switch out to Kyogre or Zekrom and OHKO it through Sucker Punch. Blissey can run both Wish support and cleric as well, although I'd never do that since Toxic is such a good move on Blissey (and Sylveon not having it should have some bad consequences, although I'll have to try it out to see). Palkia's Thunder doesn't do much to Sylveon, but if it's raining Hydro Pump certainly would, and since Palkia has Thunder SpD Kyogre can't check it either. Toxic on Scizor wouldn't matter much since Electric Arceus's Judgement is type-neutral + STAB vs. Scizor and does so much damage in return. Arceus is also a bad Pokemon to try to revenge with Zekrom since it doesn't do enough damage (Outrage does about 50-60%), while CM reduces the damage from Kyogre, so it comes to playing around with resistances to rack up Toxic damage against a Pokemon that has reliable recovery and can switch out - not exactly appealing. Giratina doesn't care about BP because Dragon Tail knocks the recipient out as well, or he can use WoW and catch the receiver on the switch. Since Giratina resists Fire Blaziken really is no threat, unlike vs. Ghost Arceus. BP sets aren't common but they're still out there; things like that are what I'm referring to when I wrote about "crazy threats". And finally I am really not afraid of Mega Gengar. Revenge killers are still good even against Mega Gengar since they provide multiple checks to X so X still can't sweep, for example if Mega Gengar traps Blissey and kills it aiming for a Scarf Kyogre sweep, Zekrom can revenge Scarf Kyogre, or if it traps Blissey aiming for a GeoXern sweep, Scizor still kills Xerneas (up to HP Fire). I am really not afraid of Mega Gengar and will not use Shed Shell over Leftovers; it's just a total waste of an item. In a similar vein I value Leftovers enough that I find Chansey inferior to Blissey, and will not use Chansey.

 

[truedrew]

im js if greninja can take out 2-3 members of yer team one must be careful

 

[ApplepieFTW]

stuff

Heya, I'm working on a rate for this team right now, but I saw this response to established user haxiom's (:]]]]]]]) rate. I think he actually is right about what he is saying. I'll just copy paste your comment and add my comments to try to explain why haxiom is right.

Just a quick response (don't have much time):

Yveltal Taunt does not break through Blissey, because I can switch out to Kyogre or Zekrom and OHKO it through Sucker Punch. Blissey can run both Wish support and cleric as well, although I'd never do that since Toxic is such a good move on Blissey (and Sylveon not having it should have some bad consequences, although I'll have to try it out to see).

So lets imagine this. Yveltal faces Blissey 1v1. Every skilled player will use Taunt immediately, you could either toxic or seismic toss. If you toxic nothing happens that turn, if you seismic toss yveltal takes damage. However the next turn, if you stay in you'll get hit by sucker punch and you'll lose your Blissey. That is very bad because you lose an essential part of the team (special wall, cleric) so that would be a very bad idea. You said this isn't an issue however, because you can switch to Kyogre or Zekrom. What you fail to see is that this is a 50/50 situation of sorts, because what if Yveltal goes for dark pulse on your switch-out to Zekrom or Kyogre? Especially if Yveltal goes for oblivion wing he has next to nothing to lose, as he could regain a lot of hp (it may not do much damage percentage wise, but Blissey just has so much hp) versus Blissey and do a lot of damage to both Zekrom and Kyogre, look at the damage outputs:

• Oblivion Wing vs Zekrom: (30.4 - 36%), Sucker Punch vs Zekrom: (48 - 56.3%), Dark Pulse vs Zekrom: (82.4 - 97%)
• Oblivion Wing vs Kyogre: (41.5 - 49.1%), Sucker Punch vs Kyogre: (60.8 - 71.9%), Dark Pulse vs Kyogre (54.6 - 64.9%)

(standard naughty zekrom, standard timid kyogre, standard mild life orb yveltal)
Yeah, these switch-ins can't really switch in at all. Kyogre always dies to a combo of owing+spunch, owing being Yveltal's most optimal play. Zekrom can only switch in once, and even if it switches in on an owing it still has a decent chance to get knocked out after stealth rocks (average rolls do 85% damage, 87.5% will knock it out after rocks). I wouldn't call tihis reliable at all.

Palkia's Thunder doesn't do much to Sylveon, but if it's raining Hydro Pump certainly would, and since Palkia has Thunder SpD Kyogre can't check it either.

Palkia basicly never carries thunder. Thunder is only seen on the rare/very mediocre Assault Vest Palkia. Since this is so uncommon, and the standard moves Palkia carries are Hydro Pump/Special Rend/Fire blast and possibly Dragon Tail Kyogre easily walls Palkia. Even if it carries Thunder, Sylveon still walls it. Because it doesn't carry Lustrous Orb Hpump in rain only has a 4.7 chance to 2hko after Leftovers(45.8 - 54.1%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery), and since you will most likely come in on a Thunder this should be the last thing you'll have to worry about.

Toxic on Scizor wouldn't matter much since Electric Arceus's Judgement is type-neutral + STAB vs. Scizor and does so much damage in return. Arceus is also a bad Pokemon to try to revenge with Zekrom since it doesn't do enough damage (Outrage does about 50-60%), while CM reduces the damage from Kyogre, so it comes to playing around with resistances to rack up Toxic damage against a Pokemon that has reliable recovery and can switch out - not exactly appealing.

I'm assuming this is about the CM Arceus weakness? Yeah, Blissey would help here I guess, but thats about the only thing. Kyogre walls CM Waterceus, CM Steelceus and also roars out CM Poisonceus. These are common stallbreaking Arceus formes, Arceus Electric is a problem, can't deny that I guess.

Giratina doesn't care about BP because Dragon Tail knocks the recipient out as well, or he can use WoW and catch the receiver on the switch. Since Giratina resists Fire Blaziken really is no threat, unlike vs. Ghost Arceus. BP sets aren't common but they're still out there; things like that are what I'm referring to when I wrote about "crazy threats".

Dtail is much, much more useless vs Baton Pass than the already useless Roar. Dragon Tail can miss (especially bad vs evasionpass) and doesn't go trough Substitute. Ever full baton pass chain carries a Fairy type (Sylveon) which walls Giratina. Giratina also is significantly weaker vs Knock Off Blaziken. In an earlier reply you say that you are in trouble when Blaziken Baton Passes its boost, but this isn't checking Blaziken, that is checking the mon it Baton Passes to (also BP blaze isn't very good/match-up reliant and also gimmicky to an extent). Gliscor walls Blaziken much better as it can reliably recover health with Poison Heal. Currently you can't even support Landorus-T with Wishes right now, so it gets worn down super easily.

And finally I am really not afraid of Mega Gengar. Revenge killers are still good even against Mega Gengar since they provide multiple checks to X so X still can't sweep, for example if Mega Gengar traps Blissey and kills it aiming for a Scarf Kyogre sweep, Zekrom can revenge Scarf Kyogre, or if it traps Blissey aiming for a GeoXern sweep, Scizor still kills Xerneas (up to HP Fire). I am really not afraid of Mega Gengar and will not use Shed Shell over Leftovers; it's just a total waste of an item. In a similar vein I value Leftovers enough that I find Chansey inferior to Blissey, and will not use Chansey.

There is absolutely no way you can not be afraid of Mega Gengar. MGengar is single-handedly the biggest problem to stall (outside of Gothitelle actually, tbf). It traps Blissey (which you should change to much more optimal Sylveon), it can suicide kill Landorus-T which opens up big holes for physical sweepers, and forces constant 50/50 with Scizor (which just loses if it carries Hidden Power Fire). If you really despise Toxic that much (you shouldn't, its great for toxic spreading and also racks up damage on common switch-ins) I guess you could Knock Off and Pursuit to make the 50/50 a bit easier. You absolutely need a way to deal with mgar. Shed Shell on Blissey is standard, this way you can switch out to Scizor and trap it without it taking out a key mon on your team for free.

Hope this cleared things up a bit, I will soon (I hope) rate this team, and a way to should make it even more solid than haxiom's rate. He is right about Giratina being sub-optimal, and about the Gliscor>Landorus-T change and about the Sylveon change as well, and his change to spdef Kyogre is right as well. You seemed iffy about these things, but I hope I showed to you why he is right :]

Good luck with the team, expect rate soon :)

Also tagging haxiom to see if he agrees with this and/or has something to add

 

[AlphaNeria]

Greninja is generally walled by Blissey and isn't very common anyway, so ...

About Yveltal: I think you rather overestimate this Pokemon. Blissey doesn't die to standard Yveltal's Sucker Punch: 4 Atk Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 374-442 (57.3 - 67.7%). If I feel I need to, I can risk the Sucker Punch and stay in to Seismic Toss it once. I can also go to Landorus-T to get the Intimidate on it, then switch back to Blissey. And if it Dark Pulses, well LO Dark Pulse does like 25% to Blissey while Seismic Toss does 25% back. This means Yveltal can't get cocky and constantly predict switches, because factoring in Leftovers and Life Orb, it's Blissey that wins. Yveltal has to Sucker Punch at some point and that means I'll have a chance to switch. Sure, it might predict perfectly (and if it does that's why I have two revenge killers), but then again I could also outpredict him.

About Palkia vs. Sylveon: perhaps it's my previous-gen experience that makes me paranoid of Thunder Palkia ... still if my calculations aren't wrong I'm seeing 252 SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon in Rain: 217-256 (55 - 64.9%). Sylveon doesn't OHKO in return either. So after switching in on Thunder I kind of have to Wish (if I attack and he Hydro Pumps, 64% chance I die), which is risky because his switch-in gets in unmolested (if he switches) or Sylveon takes big damage (if he attacks) and is forced to Protect the next turn (which again lets him switch unmolested). I'll grant that Sylveon should have an advantage here, but there's a definite cost associated with using Sylveon since Palkia isn't nearly as walled.

About Dragon Tail: I was referring to BP Blaziken. The question is what happens if Blaziken comes in on Blissey / after a KO and SDs as I switch to Blaziken counter. If I have Gliscor, then it would be +2 Attack +1 Speed. What is Gliscor going to do? If I EQ as he Baton Passes, the recipient is going to punch holes big time if not outright sweep especially if the recipient is immune to Ground. Giratina does not have this issue because I can Dragon Tail, so no matter what Blaziken does it achieves nothing (unless it BPs to a Fairy-type, but in my experience Fairy sweepers are all special so the +2 Attack doesn't matter). To be fair Landorus-T has the same issue as Gliscor, but it does have Intimidate, so Blaziken would be +1 Attack instead of +2 - this can be a big deal. Also I just calced +2 252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 310-366 (87.5 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO ... not reassuring.

About Mega Gengar: Like I said I'm not afraid of Mega Gengar. Sure it can suicide trap Landorus-T, but there's still Giratina. How many physical sweepers break through Giratina and can't be revenged with Scarf Kyogre / Scarf Zekrom / Scizor BP? I can't think of any off the top of my head. Shed Shell may be standard on Blissey, but in my experience Leftovers is infinitely better so I will not use Shed Shell.

Looking forward to the rate! We may not agree on many things, but I still appreciate your ideas and will definitely be trying out some of them, especially Ghost Arceus over Giratina -> change Defog on Scizor into something else!

 

[Edgar]

Hello fren, nice team. haxiom with the solid TR badge already covered what I thought they would be some optimal options. A few things I don't really agree with are Gliscor > Landorus-T, although Gliscor does help with status, Landorus-T helps a lot more with threats like Zekrom and Ho-Oh and besides, from my experience, Gliscor can only do well against stall if it has Toxic and Substitute at the same time, which is something you can't really accomplish here, Gliscor also adds more pressure on Arceus-Ghost as it needs to check both Mewtwo and Extremekiller Arceus, which I don't think it's optimal. Another thing I don't agree with is the Zekrom set, no Focus Blast makes you insanely weak to Ferrothorn so, I think running full mixed over Tailwind would be the most optimal set here. The EVs haxiom posted are also kinda messed up I feel like. I really think this is the optimal EV spread: 160 Atk / 252 SAtk / 96 Spd with a Naughty nature. This allows you to 2HKO max HP Groudon with Draco Meteor, it also allows you to 2HKO Ferrothorn with Focus Blast, which is really important as it fulfills the role as wallbreaker, and I feel like haxiom's EVs don't really accomplish that. Naughty nature is prefered as you may need Zekrom to take some priority hits and most priority users are physical. I don't think you need to worry about speedy threats such as Darkrai and Mewtwo, Arceus-Ghost and Sylveon do a good job handling them.

Zekrom set

Zekrom @ Life Orb
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 160 Atk / 252 SAtk / 96 Spd
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Bolt Strike
- Focus Blast
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Claw

Nice team, good luck :]

 

[haxiom]

Hello fren, nice team. haxiom with the solid TR badge already covered what I thought they would be some optimal options. A few things I don't really agree with are Gliscor > Landorus-T, although Gliscor does help with status, Landorus-T helps a lot more with threats like Zekrom and Ho-Oh and besides, from my experience, Gliscor can only do well against stall if it has Toxic and Substitute at the same time, which is something you can't really accomplish here, Gliscor also adds more pressure on Arceus-Ghost as it needs to check both Mewtwo and Extremekiller Arceus, which I don't think it's optimal. Another thing I don't agree with is the Zekrom set, no Focus Blast makes you insanely weak to Ferrothorn so, I think running full mixed over Tailwind would be the most optimal set here. The EVs haxiom posted are also kinda messed up I feel like. I really think this is the optimal EV spread: 160 Atk / 252 SAtk / 96 Spd with a Naughty nature. This allows you to 2HKO max HP Groudon with Draco Meteor, it also allows you to 2HKO Ferrothorn with Focus Blast, which is really important as it fulfills the role as wallbreaker, and I feel like haxiom's EVs don't really accomplish that. Naughty nature is prefered as you may need Zekrom to take some priority hits and most priority users are physical. I don't think you need to worry about speedy threats such as Darkrai and Mewtwo, Arceus-Ghost and Sylveon do a good job handling them.

Zekrom set

Zekrom @ Life Orb
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 160 Atk / 252 SAtk / 96 Spd
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Bolt Strike
- Focus Blast
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Claw

Nice team, good luck :]

I agree here. I just want to mention a thing or two real quickly. Ghostceus would not have to 100% check Ekiller, as Scizor can definitely take a little pressure off, granted it would be moreso than with Lando-T. Edgar's MixKrom set is also much better (I just took mine from the analysis).

 

[AlphaNeria]

I tried the new modified team in its entirety (using Sylveon, mixed Zekrom, etc) and my first impressions is wow it's stable: using a new account I've won twelve games on a trot, admittedly not something that impressive since the lower end of the ladder isn't very competitive, but still something. I didn't run into anything I couldn't handle. I did feel iffy about Sylveon, but what Sylveon does not check, SpD Kyogre does and does very well (usually).

However there were some issues:

1) Mega Gengar becomes a huge huge threat. I have zilch for speed to revenge whatever it sets up with. Granted I only ran into one Mega Gengar (which was outsped and OHKOed by Ghost Arceus ... what) but still. If it traps something, kills it and sets something else up, I have nothing to kill that something else with. I kind of have to bring Scizor in on Mega Gengar immediately and hope it doesn't have HP Fire; if it does I don't see how I can get out of the sticky situation. Without my dual Scarfers I feel a lot more naked against Mega Gengar.
2) I didn't run into any, but I imagine Electric Arceus is a weakness for the new team with no Toxic on Sylveon. With no speed I can't sacrifice something to revenge it either. I considered switching out Zekrom for Darkrai, which would also be a good stallbreaker that outspeeds Arceus to boot, but that gives up coverage against CM Kyogre and Water Arceus.
3) Ghost Arceus doesn't check Mewtwo ... in one game it got 2HKOed by Psystrike (did ~48%) followed by Shadow Ball ... for whatever reason I was faster and did Judgment on it, but didn't OHKO it either. Thankfully Scizor revenged it.
4) Screw the stupid Baton Pass team, because I don't seem to have any way to beat it. Kyogre can Roar, but it's easily stopped by Taunt. I think the only reason I didn't lose that game was because my opponent dc'ed.

EDIT: Played a few more games and I've been swept a couple of times by CM Fairy Arceus now. There's a real opportunity cost in running Sylveon. I'll have to think about this weakness.

EDIT #2: Couple more weaknesses - bulky Deoxys-S gets up multiple layers of hazards against me since I don't have Knock Off anymore. Also even mixed Zekrom is rather easily walled, I ran into a team that had Giratina + Chansey + physically defensive Xerneas, made little progress for a very long time and came dangerously close to running out of PP on Bolt Strike (thanks to Giratina's Pressure, I was predicting the switch to Xerneas). Again something I'll have to think about, first putting this here though.