CAP 19 CAP 19 - Part 4 - Primary Ability Discussion

[ginganinja]

O.k, I am giving this a 24 Hour Warning.

Get any more remaining submissions in quickly, because I want to wrap things up. That said, Pwnemon and I had a quick chat, and so far these are some of the following abilities that I seem to enjoy

Static: Firstly, in general I agree that Iron Barbs / Rough Skin does risk being slightly anti concept since it can create situations where an enemy pokemon will attempt to suicide itself to prevent giving Gyarados a set up opportunity. That said, this doesn't apply to Static, which punishes people casually throwing out contact moves, by hopefully crippling them for Gyarados to sweep. The ability does have some downsides, as in general I don't believe its easy to paralyse the pokemon we actually want paralysed (faster revenge killers etc), but besides this, it seems to be an "ok" ability choice.

Water Absorb / Storm Drain: I shelved Dry Skin, simply because I think the core has enough issues with both forms of Charizard. Zard X can MEvo on a electric attack directed at its base form and DD (or just click EQ), while Zard Y can still carry the same move if it wishes, or rely on Drought boosted Fire Blast (and the sunlight destroying this CAPs health) to nuke past this CAP, while still having Solarbeam and sunlight reducing Gyarados's main STAB if it wants to take on the second member of the core. Its not even particularly safe for other partners instead of Gyarados, even Dragonite and opposing Zard X have to beware coming in on a Dragon Attack, especially if for whatever reason SR is up. This is why I greatly prefer Water Absorb and Storm Drain, because they retain the ability to switch into water moves and take no damage, while not opening ourselves up to pokemon that have a strong Fire STAB AND a secondly STAB move that hits Gyarados hard neutrally to discourage a free DD. I still fail to see any decent arguments against this ability, and its currently one of my favourite choices.

Sap Sipper: Yea, I am pretty sure this abilities just me, as it hasn't really received a lot of discussion, and would really love it if people discussed it, since I really want to decrease personal bias in slate creation, and reading other peoples opinions enables me to make a better slate. Anyway, I like Sap Sipper since it directly targets moves such as Spore / Sleep Powder / Leech Seed. Usually, I wouldn't care about Sleep moves (Gyarados has sub), but while this CAP resists grass attacks, Sleep Powder, Spore and Leech Seed are all very threatening "non attacking moves". In addition, the common abusers of these moves are slightly frustrating to Gyarados, with Breloom having Mach Punch to revenge a Gyarados that has Mega Evolved, and Ferrothorn having access to both Power Whip and Leech Seed to frustrate both CAP and Gyarados. Sap Sipper is much less of an abuse case when compared with, say, Magic Bounce, and it doesn't directly lock us into a physical direction (it does give us the ability to run a Physical set though if it wanted, or it could Baton Pass a Sap Sipper boost), so I kind of like it, but its hard to form a professional opinion so long as its just me talking about it.

Also note that I am still welcoming any and all future submissions. In the next 26 hour period you are not forced to only discuss my bolded abilities, I am just outlining my current thoughts on a small selection.

 

[Da Pizza Man]

Sap Sipper is quite nice. While it unfortunately does perceive us as more as a physical attacker, it also is incredibly nice to be immune to stuff like Breloom's Spore and Ferrothorn's Leech Seed. And since this technically more of an immunity ability, we shouldn't be to worried about having to be more of a physical attacker, while it would be nice to be able to use that +1 Boost, we don't necessarily have to if we need to go special. Unfortunately since it hasn't gotten much Discussion I have completely forgot about it, and with Dry Skin gone, this is my personal favorite now

 

[capefeather]

I'm going to go ahead and propose an ability that hits a surprising number of buttons: Trace.

Ever notice how we picked a typing partially to lose to Ground-types but then there are a couple that we kind of don't want to lose to? What about how some abilities like Prankster, Speed Boost and Regenerator might help CAP 19 out against certain threats, but they're kind of undesirable for being generically great abilities? Trace goes a surprisingly long way to address both of these. Here are some notable abilities that can be Traced:

Thundurus's Prankster
Excadrill's Sand Rush
Kabutops's Swift Swim
Heatran's Flash Fire
Ferrothorn's Iron Barbs?
Scolipede's Speed Boost
Intimidate
Levitate
Regenerator
Huge Power?

With one ability, we can stop sweepers like Excadrill (non-Scarf), Kabutops, and Mawile pre-Mega (pending stats and movepool, of course). We also screw with Scolipede. Regenerator Pokemon like Slowbro and Tornadus Therian are annoying even when you can counter them, but grabbing their Regenerator makes them easier to deal with. Heatran's various shenanigans make it hard for sweepers like Gyarados to justify trying to set up on it, so Flash Fire means we only lose to the uncommon Earth Power. Intimidate screws with opposing Gyarados and Landorus Therian (situationally). Thundurus's Prankster might also be good to grab depending on the movepool. An important point is that with Trace, we won't be able to fully utilize powerful abilities like Prankster, Speed Boost and Regenerator, but we could use them in situations where they would be relevant to the concept.

I don't know how I'd compare this ability to Static, Water Absorb, Storm Drain or Sap Sipper. Trace doesn't cover a lot in the grand scheme of things, but I guess the other abilities are the same way. I figure I might as well throw it out there because an ability like Trace will probably impact on stats, which is relevant with this being the primary ability stage.

 

[Ununhexium]

ok im spamming feedback for some abilities that have gotten discussion

Iron Barbs: I don't like this much. It lowers the chance for us to get our free switch in for our sweeper which really hurts the concept. In itself, it seems good because it keeps the opponent from attacking you, but if we're trying to dissuade the opponent by threatening the easy switch in and setup, this isn't a good route to go down.

Water-immune ability: This is a pretty cool idea. Scald is such an important move in the metagame, so having a Pokemon that can easily punish the users of the move is a cool idea. It makes it so easy to set up on common Water-types in the metagame, as it resists both STABs of Keldeo and Azumarill. Even without those, their coverage moves don't deal much damage to them. I don't like Dry Skin because we already take more from Fire-type moves than Flying-types moves by virtue of its typing.

Static: This is a cool idea. I would actually be happy to see an under appreciated ability see some use in CAP. I am one of those people who love spamming Thunder Wave so a slower sweeper can finish off the game. Also, if you get lucky, Mega Gyarados might get an extra turn to set up. Yes, it dissuades the opponent from attacking you; no, it does not remove your free switch.

Sap Sipper: This is actually really interesting as sleep inducers are really annoying. It also removes Breloom and Amoonguss' last-ditch option to deal with CAP. Also, if for whatever reason Gyarados is out against a Grass-type and CAP is still alive, it can make a cool switch-in. This may me just me, but I feel like CAP's typing promotes a special bias, and this would promote physical attacks, especially when the only really good physical Electric-type moves are recoil or disallowed. However, if we are using it solely for sleep absorption, Insomnia / Vital Spirit might be cool.

Trace: I'm going to sleep on this. Literally

 

[Phione]

Trace sounds very interesting. Being able to Trace things like Exca and Kabuto's speed boosts in their weather potentially lets us beat them at their own game. They'd be forced to switch to a Ground-type that can beat us, which in turn is set-up bait for Gyara. Tracing Prankster could put them at such an immediate disadvantage that they are forced to KO us, which in turn lets Gyara wreck stuff. I might write more on this tomorrow.

 

[Da Pizza Man]

ok im spamming feedback for some abilities that have gotten discussion

Iron Barbs: I don't like this much. It lowers the chance for us to get our free switch in for our sweeper which really hurts the concept. In itself, it seems good because it keeps the opponent from attacking you, but if we're trying to dissuade the opponent by threatening the easy switch in and setup, this isn't a good route to go down.

Water-immune ability: This is a pretty cool idea. Scald is such an important move in the metagame, so having a Pokemon that can easily punish the users of the move is a cool idea. It makes it so easy to set up on common Water-types in the metagame, as it resists both STABs of Keldeo and Azumarill. Even without those, their coverage moves don't deal much damage to them. I don't like Dry Skin because we already take more from Fire-type moves than Flying-types moves by virtue of its typing.

Static: This is a cool idea. I would actually be happy to see an under appreciated ability see some use in CAP. I am one of those people who love spamming Thunder Wave so a slower sweeper can finish off the game. Also, if you get lucky, Mega Gyarados might get an extra turn to set up. Yes, it dissuades the opponent from attacking you; no, it does not remove your free switch.

Sap Sipper: This is actually really interesting as sleep inducers are really annoying. It also removes Breloom and Amoonguss' last-ditch option to deal with CAP. Also, if for whatever reason Gyarados is out against a Grass-type and CAP is still alive, it can make a cool switch-in. This may me just me, but I feel like CAP's typing promotes a special bias, and this would promote physical attacks, especially when the only really good physical Electric-type moves are recoil or disallowed. However, if we are using it solely for sleep absorption, Insomnia / Vital Spirit might be cool.

Trace: I'm going to sleep on this. Literally

Sap Sipper also blocks Leech Seed, that and neither Vital Spirit or Insomnia raise your attack when you're hit by one of these moves

 

[turd bunny]

I don't like Iron Barbs much. A little bit of damage doesn't seem like it would make someone not want to kill you. It would make them kill you anyway because your annoying. Then Mgyara would come in to set up. Gyara kills the settup fodder then they come in with they're revenge killer and kill you or force you out. Didn't work.

Trace also doesn't make your opponent not want to kill you. You're even more threatening and they will have a more urgent desire to kill you. Then the iron barbs scenario happens.

A water or electric immunity move is cool for reasons previously explained. And with Static/Flame body you have a much more annoying effect but it doesn't always activate so I'm in the middle for those.

Sap Sipper blocks super effective moves on gyara and leech seed. That's all good. Doesn't make your foe not want to kill you though.

 

[Phione]

However, we don't want to be a total non-threat. We have to be threatening enough that the opponent feel like they have a duty to KO us, as bad as a Mega-Gyara free switch would be. Otherwise, having no reason at all to KO, they'd just stall us out and win. We're not trying to discourage them entirely, we're trying to punish them for KOing. At least, I think that's what concept assessment led to. That's why I support Trace.

 

[YellowAdminSilver]

I don't like Iron Barbs much. A little bit of damage doesn't seem like it would make someone not want to kill you. It would make them kill you anyway because your annoying. Then Mgyara would come in to set up. Gyara kills the settup fodder then they come in with they're revenge killer and kill you or force you out. Didn't work.

Trace also doesn't make your opponent not want to kill you. You're even more threatening and they will have a more urgent desire to kill you. Then the iron barbs scenario happens.

A water or electric immunity move is cool for reasons previously explained. And with Static/Flame body you have a much more annoying effect but it doesn't always activate so I'm in the middle for those.

Sap Sipper blocks super effective moves on gyara and leech seed. That's all good. Doesn't make your foe not want to kill you though.

If we're looking for the opponent to "not want to kill us" based on ability alone, then we should probably choose Truant or Slow Start and become complete setup fodder. That is not the concept.
The concept is to have a pokemon that is threatening in its own right, while also having the threat of giving a dangerous sweeper a free turn if it does go down. Also, as the TL said at the beginning, the ability needs to work for CAP as a standalone pokemon, not just as a MGyara/Dragonite/Randomsweepermon partner. I agree with Phione, the goal is to punish the opponent for KOing CAP while keeping CAP threatening.
That being said, I'll go ahead and jump on the Trace bandwagon. I agree that it does not directly lead to "not KOing CAP" (unless we trace Prankster and get to rock Prankster Destiny Bond which would be hilarious) but it does go a long way in making sure CAP isn't setup fodder which we can all agree is a good thing. Being able to switch in freely on Thundurus and avoid priority TWave is a big plus, as well as deterring Heatran from spamming WoW. As other people said, Swift Swim and Sand Rush would otherwise be big problems, and tracing an Intimidate would give MGyara all the more opportunities to set up.

 

[aim]

Agreeing with Iron Barbs. It weakens checks to Mega Gyarados as already mentioned by previous users putting threats like Superpower Mega Scizor in +1 Waterfall range and the like. Weakening Azumarill as well as Talonflame while being nice checks to them and threatening them with Electric or Poison STAB. Basically the idea of punishing a check or counter to Mega Gyarados is ideal is helping it set up. If said pokemon is taking damage turn per turn from not only Iron Barbs but from Hazards this just in turn allows Mega Gyara an easier sweep. So yeah for Iron Barbs.

 

[FireArrow]

Right now we mostly have defensive abilities, and since going offensive is a very viable way to take CAP19, I'd really like to see Sheer Force (or possibly serene grace?) be put on the slate (even if only for just that reason.)

Serene Grace is kinda hit or miss, because while many of the things we don't want to switch in will be deterred by a 60% poison chance, many of the things we are trying to bait won't appreciate it either. I'm still OK with this option, but it feels too risky.

There isn't much to say about Sheer Force other than it makes us into a wall breaker (which many people seem to want.) Electric and poison type attacks have no shortage of secondary effects, so this would be most the reliable way to boost our damage.

Sap Sipper is an interesting option, there isn't really any downside to picking it. There's just simply other abilities that would serve us much better.

I'm gonna wait before formulating an opinion on Trace. If it scares away things we don't want in, then great, but if it just helps us against a bunch of random threats, it's no better than regenerator. I'll need to look at the threat list, which I don't have time to do right now (I wanna sleep pls.)

 

[The Fennec Fox]

I'm gonna vote for either Static or Prankster. Because of Static paralyzingly you making your opponent regret killing you and Prankster due to (If it gets it) Piority Destiny Bond which can stop a sweeper dead in its tracks. But I think it's much better to wait for the final design to come so we can have an idea of the abilities even more.

 

[namemaker]

I am just back from a place without internet, so after being gone for over two weeks, (I missed typing vote AND discussion!?), I have think the following abilities make sense: Sticky Hold, Poison Touch or Aftermath.
I think Sticky Hold makes sense, helping to avoid knock off spam and so we can avoid roar problems.
Poison Touch is a "flavour" ability, but still, Poison Touch+Poison Jab is really annoying. Plus it can put a timer on a lot of mons.
Aftermath, I like cause it fits with the concept,it can cause problems for your opponent, plus, most mons with afterath are eithier poison or electric.

 

[hard]

Seeing that we got a bit away from the original concept with the focus on a gyarados supporter, I would use this stage to get back a bit.
Analyzing how the process of fainting changes the outcome of the match and how we can influence this situation was one of the main aims originally.
That´s why I would suggest to think again about an ability like Aftermath, which precisely only works in certain situations of fainting.

Aftermath creates an environment of pressure for every user of contact moves if they need to stay healthy to check or counter the setup sweeper(s) of your team. This pressure can be applied by our CAP whether its on the field or not, at 100% or 1% of health but only against specific Pokemon leaving some Counters viable at this stage of CAP creation.
An essential benefit of this is, that most special attackers except electric types(our type covers those to an extent) are not yet affected by CAP 19, leaving for example fast Psychic types and bulky Water types as checks to the setup attempt as long as they are up against the right member of the core we create.
Other obvious counters like some Ground types(Excadrill/ Gliscor) that should not be fullstops to our setup sweeper are better dealt with in there stages of the CAP process and are not affected by the other ability suggestions anyway.

Also flavourwise Aftermath fits an Electric/Poison Pokemon perfectly.

 

[nyttyn]

I'm going to go ahead and propose an ability that hits a surprising number of buttons: Trace.

Ever notice how we picked a typing partially to lose to Ground-types but then there are a couple that we kind of don't want to lose to? What about how some abilities like Prankster, Speed Boost and Regenerator might help CAP 19 out against certain threats, but they're kind of undesirable for being generically great abilities? Trace goes a surprisingly long way to address both of these. Here are some notable abilities that can be Traced:

Thundurus's Prankster
Excadrill's Sand Rush
Kabutops's Swift Swim
Heatran's Flash Fire
Ferrothorn's Iron Barbs?
Scolipede's Speed Boost
Intimidate
Levitate
Regenerator
Huge Power?

With one ability, we can stop sweepers like Excadrill (non-Scarf), Kabutops, and Mawile pre-Mega (pending stats and movepool, of course). We also screw with Scolipede. Regenerator Pokemon like Slowbro and Tornadus Therian are annoying even when you can counter them, but grabbing their Regenerator makes them easier to deal with. Heatran's various shenanigans make it hard for sweepers like Gyarados to justify trying to set up on it, so Flash Fire means we only lose to the uncommon Earth Power. Intimidate screws with Mega Manectric, opposing Gyarados and Landorus Therian (situationally). Thundurus's Prankster might also be good to grab depending on the movepool. An important point is that with Trace, we won't be able to fully utilize powerful abilities like Prankster, Speed Boost and Regenerator, but we could use them in situations where they would be relevant to the concept.

I don't know how I'd compare this ability to Static, Water Absorb, Storm Drain or Sap Sipper. Trace doesn't cover a lot in the grand scheme of things, but I guess the other abilities are the same way. I figure I might as well throw it out there because an ability like Trace will probably impact on stats, which is relevant with this being the primary ability stage.

I do like Trace as a niche option, but I think you'e overselling it Cape.

Of the abilities listed:

Prankster is semi-pointless if we don't already have it, as our movepool/general moveslots won't be built to abuse it.
Sand Rush and Swift Swim are good no matter what, but Sand Rush Excadrill is only 50% of Excadrill, and Kabutops is basically a non-factor as far as OU is concerned (1.6% usage, and for SOME reason that I cannot possibly discern, only 24% of Kabutops use swift swim).
Flash Fire sure, but Earth Power is actually far from uncommon (44% usage, and that'll only rise with CAP19 in OU).
Ferrothorn doesn't really care too much about iron barbs, save the occasional banded set or lucky gyro ball switchi-in.
Speed Boost, eeeeh. Kind of situational, but certainly on the 'good' side of trace abilities.
Intimidate, sure, but only pre-Mega Mawile and Landog use it, and the later will butcher us regardless (but makes Megados possible to switch in+set up so that's nice).
Nothing that uses Levitate also uses ground moves. Of the levitate users in OU, the Latis already wreck our shit (baring some redic bulk), Rotom-W will really depend on our stats (but i doubt we'll enjoy taking a hydro pump to the face, especially specs), and Gengar is pretty dependent on what our special bulk is (shadow ball might eat us, might not).
Regenerator is cool, yeah.
Huge Power is very, very unreliable, and requires us to be a physical attacker (Which, quite frankly, won't happen considering we need to kill Skarmory. If it does happen though, most hilarious mega mawile counter in existence).

so yeah, not nearly as nice as it appears.

 

[CerberusSONE]

Serene Grace is kinda hit or miss, because while many of the things we don't want to switch in will be deterred by a 60% poison chance, many of the things we are trying to bait won't appreciate it either. I'm still OK with this option, but it feels too risky.

There isn't much to say about Sheer Force other than it makes us into a wall breaker (which many people seem to want.) Electric and poison type attacks have no shortage of secondary effects, so this would be most the reliable way to boost our damage.

Right now, a lot of the Pokémon that we want to get rid of resist or are immune to our STABs. Electric and Poison are great types in terms of secondary effects, but if Wallbreaking is a path we want to take I will argue for Tinted Lens.

A lot of our checks are Grounds, and that type takes no damage from our Electric STABs, along with half damage from our Poison STABs. With Tinted Lens, CAP19 can hit things neutrally.
Will things be scared to come out against it? Of course, but if our goal is to really give our Dragon Dancer out back a free/optimal switch-in, I'd rather have our opponents take the neutral hits rather than wait for them to KO us while we give 'em a boop! of a resisted hit. (Excadrill will still screw us up…)
I'd like to remind people that literally any player can click EQ and KO us, so the more damage we inflict, the more likely Gyarados has an optimistic chance of setting up.

About Trace, I think this is viable. I have had a lot of experiences using Mega-Alakazam, and they had mixed outcomes. The downside of Trace is that the opponent can strategically turn your own game against you.

Concerning Prankster, I see this being abused if we give CAP T-Wave, but not necessarily Toxic. Priority Toxic might not affect all of the things we're trying to get rid of (see: Excadrill).
Healing Wish is the selling point for me. Priority Healing Wish can give Gyarados a second chance at setting up, as a few people already pointed out, and that would adhere to the concept a bit.

Sap Sipper is one of my more favorable abilities, since because no non-Grass type likes a Spore/Leech Seed to the face, in this case Gyarados, CAP can possibly take advantage of it. I'd don't know how physical an Electric/Poison type can be, however.

 

[capefeather]

I agree that some of what I listed (especially Prankster, Iron Barbs, Huge Power) is either not all that impressive (though I think still notable) or heavily dependent on stats and movepool. CAP 19 will have to outrun Excadrill at the base Speed level to have a chance at winning, in which case only Choice Scarf Excadrill can outrun (which is what I implied in my last post). I don't really imagine Trace CAP 19 trying very hard to grab a Levitate for reasons you mentioned, but I still think it's notable enough to mention. As for Heatran, it likes using moves like Substitute, Taunt and Toxic, and missing even one move slot for the sake of Earth Power makes it less effective against sweepers like Dragonite and Gyarados (though kind of screws over Mega Charizard X). In fact, the point is moot if CAP 19 has an Air Balloon.

I do kind of wish that an ability choice like Trace were more "ideal" (e.g. I'm not sure if the ability to possibly Trace Levitate is a good thing), and I'm honestly kind of surprised by the support that it's gotten, but we're working with what we have. Static banks on paralyzing stuff that uses contact moves (and as srk mentioned, not many Pokemon will aim a contact move at CAP 19), while Water Absorb and Storm Drain focus on neutering dangerous Water-types and especially Scald. Sap Sipper does the same for Sleep Powder / Spore / Leech Seed. Trace simply takes the same idea of dealing with a collection of threats that aren't quite addressed in the typing. It's just that that collection is very disparate due to how Trace works, making it perhaps seem like it's doing less than other abilities.

 

[FireArrow]

Right now, a lot of the Pokémon that we want to get rid of resist or are immune to our STABs. Electric and Poison are great types in terms of secondary effects, but if Wallbreaking is a path we want to take I will argue for Tinted Lens.

A lot of our checks are Grounds, and that type takes no damage from our Electric STABs, along with half damage from our Poison STABs. With Tinted Lens, CAP19 can hit things neutrally.
Will things be scared to come out against it? Of course, but if our goal is to really give our Dragon Dancer out back a free/optimal switch-in, I'd rather have our opponents take the neutral hits rather than wait for them to KO us while we give 'em a boop! of a resisted hit. (Excadrill will still screw us up…)
I'd like to remind people that literally any player can click EQ and KO us, so the more damage we inflict, the more likely Gyarados has an optimistic chance of setting up.

Tinted lens is sort of like serene grace in that it helps out against both what we want to bait and what we want to check. That's why I really like sheer force, it basically increases the potency of our movepool, whereas tinted lens is much harder to control. Nonetheless, I still thinks it's a valid option.

 

[OverlordDerp]

Right now, a lot of the Pokémon that we want to get rid of resist or are immune to our STABs. Electric and Poison are great types in terms of secondary effects, but if Wallbreaking is a path we want to take I will argue for Tinted Lens.

A lot of our checks are Grounds, and that type takes no damage from our Electric STABs, along with half damage from our Poison STABs. With Tinted Lens, CAP19 can hit things neutrally.
Will things be scared to come out against it? Of course, but if our goal is to really give our Dragon Dancer out back a free/optimal switch-in, I'd rather have our opponents take the neutral hits rather than wait for them to KO us while we give 'em a boop! of a resisted hit. (Excadrill will still screw us up…)
I'd like to remind people that literally any player can click EQ and KO us, so the more damage we inflict, the more likely Gyarados has an optimistic chance of setting up.

About Trace, I think this is viable. I have had a lot of experiences using Mega-Alakazam, and they had mixed outcomes. The downside of Trace is that the opponent can strategically turn your own game against you.

Concerning Prankster, I see this being abused if we give CAP T-Wave, but not necessarily Toxic. Priority Toxic might not affect all of the things we're trying to get rid of (see: Excadrill).
Healing Wish is the selling point for me. Priority Healing Wish can give Gyarados a second chance at setting up, as a few people already pointed out, and that would adhere to the concept a bit.

Sap Sipper is one of my more favorable abilities, since because no non-Grass type likes a Spore/Leech Seed to the face, in this case Gyarados, CAP can possibly take advantage of it. I'd don't know how physical an Electric/Poison type can be, however.

Remember, when you have Trace, the enemy can work around it, but the entire point is that you've physically forced them into a situation where they have to use some sort of a detour strategy to deal with the new threat. This is the prime example of discouraging KOing this CAP.

At the same time, however, Sap Sipper is also really good, as it makes this CAPmon nigh un-status-able outside of burns and maybe Psycho Shift. It has the great niche of being able to stop clutch Grass coverage 'mons like Manaphy (Energy Ball) or Greninja (HP Grass/Grass Knot), and of course, the ever-feared Spore/Sleep Powder. However, unless our CAPmon is physically oreinted if it runs an attack or two, I don't really see Sap Sipper doing much outside of taking the Sleep problem away. Honestly, I'd go for Overcoat instead, since it both blocks powder moves AND blocks residual sandstorm/hail damage.

 

[Phione]

Did anybody thought about a Prankster & Magnet Rise Combination?
It would be an awesome opportunity for CAP19 to avoid earthquake and earth powers and it wouldn't be as overpowered as Levitate.
Furthermore there are many other moves that help to support MGyara like Twave or Toxic.

Except that the purpose of this concept isn't JUST to help M-Gyara. I don't really see how Prankster Magnet Rise would particularly discourage things from KOing us, and although Levitate easily outclasses Magnet Rise, Prankster is just a really good ability that lets us do so much more than Levitate. Not so sure about this one.

 

[Vann Accessible]

I understand people's desire to have CAP19 to absorb Spore/Sleep Powder as it is intended to be a grass check against the likes of Breloom, but I also think people are overstating the need for Sap Sipper/Overcoat over Water Absorb/Storm Drain.

Here is my reasoning: Safety Googles.

Consider that its typing already grants CAP19 grass, poison, steel and fighting resists to switch into the likes of Ferrothorn, Breloom, Venusaur and Amoongus, it's only natural to want it to be immunity
to their status moves. But the only mon CAP19 will be able to retaliate against with a SE STAB is Breloom.

Electric/Poison is better suited to be a special attacker, leading the attack boost from Sap Sipper to be unnecessary.

Furthermore, Electric types typically don't fear leech seed so much, as they tend to have Volt Switch, which is what CAP19 is likely to do (or Taunt?) to Ferrothorn, Venusaur or Amoongus, given that the typings result in sort of a stalemate.

An item like Safety Googles provides a pseudo-Overcoat, while still allowing CAP19 to retain the essential water immunity ability allowing it to be effective against such other common Gyarados counters like Scald Keldeo, Azurmarril, Suicune, and Manaphy.

SG has allowed other poison types like Crobat and Liquid Ooze Tentacruel to be great grass counters. There's no reason it couldn't do the same here.

Furthermore, a water immunity ability for CAP19 is useless against Mega Gyarados given that it A.) has Mold Breaker and B.) usually runs EQ regardless.

I support Water Absorb / Storm Drain.

 

[CerberusSONE]

Tinted lens is sort of like serene grace in that it helps out against both what we want to bait and what we want to check. That's why I really like sheer force, it basically increases the potency of our movepool, whereas tinted lens is much harder to control. Nonetheless, I still thinks it's a valid option.

Here's how I see it:
Serene Grace: same power, higher chance of secondary effects

Sheer Force: higher power, no secondary effects

Tinted Lens: neutral power against types that normally resist our STABs, constant chance of secondary effects

Are any of these Wallbreaking abilities? Yes, actually, all of them.
Do any of these 'scare off' threats that we want to eliminate to create a clean setup opp for Gyarados?
Yes, more of Tinted Lens and Serene Grace, and to a lesser extent, Sheer Force.
Tinted Lens can scare off Ferrothorn with neutral Electric STABs, and Grounds not named Excadrill with Poison STABs (since Rock/Ground types don't do well in the metagame, the issue of Poison's half-damage to them can be ignored).
Serene Grace makes the threat of being Paralyzed and Poisoned through its STABs more real to opponents.

Sheer Force removes the threat of secondary effects from the opponent and powers up moves that have them, especially CAP's STABs.

I'm at the point where I would really like CAP19 to take on a Wallbreaking ability. Given its above-average defensive typing, and questionable offensive typing (Poison is resisted by/doesn't affect a few types), I think making it a wallbreaker can alleviate the problem of being resisted by many opponents.

If we really want a defensive ability, then I still support Dry Skin (baits Fire moves) and Storm Drain (because typing looks Specially-oriented) of the Water-Immunity abilities.

Did anybody thought about a Prankster & Magnet Rise Combination?
It would be an awesome opportunity for CAP19 to avoid earthquake and earth powers and it wouldn't be as overpowered as Levitate.
Furthermore there are many other moves that help to support MGyara like Twave or Toxic.

This combination sounds a bit niche.
Yes, we become unaffected by Ground moves from things that don't have Mold Breaker.
And while the temptation to draw out Psychic moves remains, unless Gyarados has gone Mega already, Priority Magnet Rise sounds a bit pointless.

 

[ginganinja]

Slate

Iron Barbs / Rough Skin
Water Absorb
Storm Drain
Sap Sipper
Static

 

[Stratos]

As with typing, ginganinja and I discussed this slate on IRC before he posted it, so I will not be using my ±1 powers. For most of the abilities, we can simply look at ginga's earlier post to see why they are slated, so I'll just talk about Iron Barbs here.

First to note, "Iron Barbs / Rough Skin" is a single option, as they are competitive clones. The one that will be chosen in the end is the one which better fits the winning art. This is to give artists more freedom, should it win.

We changed our minds on Barbs because of the original concept of "discouraging the opponent from trying to KO the CAP." When exploiting the CAP's Ground-type weakness would get you set up on, it seems plausible to chip it to death instead. However, trying to do so would chip yourself to death as well, weakening possible Mega Gyarados counters to the point that it can sweep. The fact that ground moves aren't contact actually works in this CAP's favor, because it means it won't accidentally KO any setup fodder with the ability, it will just discourage trying to knock it out through certain other means.