NU Marowak

[Ares]

Taken over from user: xzern

QC checks: [ TheCanadianWifier ] [ Hollywood ] [ Soulgazer ]
GP checks: [ Muk ] [ fleurdyleurse ]

Overview
########

Marowak has two unique traits that make it stand out: Thick Club and Bonemerang. Thick Club doubles Marowak's Attack, while Bonemerang hits twice and therefore through Sturdy, Focus Sash, and Substitute. This gives Marowak a niche in NU as a powerful Ground-type attacker, with Thick Club maximizing Marowak's Attack at 568. With access to Stealth Rock, Marowak can also function as a lead, and it has decent physical bulk between its high Defense and its average HP. However, despite its massive power and decent utility, Marowak's low Speed and mediocre special bulk often hold it back.

Offensive
########
Name: Offensive
Move 1: Bonemerang
Move 2: Double-Edge
Move 3: Substitute / Stealth Rock
Move 4: Knock Off
ability: Rock Head
item: Thick Club
evs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
nature: Adamant

Moves
========

Bonemerang is a STAB move that hits twice with 50 Base Power on each hit, allowing it to KO opponents through Sturdy, Focus Sash, and Substitute. However, it does not have perfect accuracy; Earthquake is an alternative with 100% accuracy. Double-Edge is a powerful coverage move with no recoil thanks to Marowak's ability, Rock Head. Substitute can be used to ease prediction, while Stealth Rock allows Marowak to function well as a lead. Knock Off is another great coverage move, hitting Ghost-types that use Levitate. Stone Edge can be used instead of Double-Edge to hit Flying-types super effectively.

Set Details
========

Maximum Attack investment is used for the largest possible damage output, while 216 Speed EVs allow Marowak to outpace uninvested base 70 Speed Pokemon and negative-natured Seismitoad. The remaining Evs are placed in HP to slightly increase Marowak's bulk. Thick Club doubles Marowak's Attack, while Rock Head prevents recoil damage from Double-Edge.

Usage Tips
========

Try to avoid being hit by Knock Off, because without Thick Club, Marowak has mediocre Attack. Bring Marowak in on Pokemon that it outspeeds, or on those that cannot do much to it offensively. If bringing it in on a slower offensive threat, do so through a double switch or a pivoting move such as Volt Switch and U-turn. Use Substitute on predicted switches or when you know a Pokemon is about to go for a support move. Marowak can be used as an anti-lead, breaking Focus Sash and Sturdy with Bonemerang and limiting Spike setters such as Garbador and Qwilfish to only one layer. However, be wary of Omastar, Torterra, and Seismitoad, as Omastar can always OHKO Marowak with Scald, and Torterra and Seismitoad can live Marowak's attack and hit back with super effective STAB attacks.

Team Options
========

Fairy-types such as Granbull and Slurpuff are good teammates for Marowak, as they can switch in on Knock Off. Special walls such as Audino and Lickilicky can switch into Water- and Grass-type moves aimed at Marowak. Entry hazard support from a Pokemon such as Omastar and Crustle can give Marowak an easier time KOing opponents. Sticky Web setters such as Leavanny and Ariados can give Marowak the ability to outspeed several threats that would otherwise outspeed it. Paralysis support also accomplishes this.

Other Options
########

Do not run any item other than Thick Club. Fire Punch is an option to OHKO Ferroseed and to hit other Grass-types slightly harder than with Double-Edge. Swords Dance boosts Marowak's Attack even more and can help it OHKO walls like Ferroseed or Vileplume, though Marowak will find few opportunities to use it.

Checks & Counters
########

**Removal of Thick Club**: Moves that result in the removal of Thick Club, such as Knock Off and Trick, effectively halve Marowak's Attack stat, seriously hampering its offensive capabilities.

**Special Sweepers**: Faster special sweepers such as Sceptile and Ludicolo can take advantage of Marowak's low Special Defense to OHKO it with super effective STAB attacks.

**Defensive Grass-type Resists**: Tangela and Quilladin resist Marowak's STAB moves and can threaten Marowak with their Grass-type STAB moves; note that Ferroseed and Vileplume do not fall under this category as both of them are 2HKOed by Marowak's STAB moves.

**Will-O-Wisp**: Burns halve Marowak's Attack, tremendously reducing its offensive presence.

 

[Ares]

Still going through and reworking things to my liking, I unslashed Bonemerang and Stone Edge and stuck to mentioning them in moves. Through testing I found that the best set was the one I have listed atm. If any QC members think either of those should be re-slashed I'll be happy to oblige.

 

[HJAD]

A little speed? I like a little speed on mine to out speed common walls Luke vileplume I believe 158 is the pure stat so I would consider ev'ing that so it can abuse its attack easier. Unless tr set some speed is reallynice

 

[Ares]

Added 48 speed to outpace uninvested vileplumes and other base 50s. If someone has a better or alternate spread they would like let me know.

 

[skies]

I'd at least mention Stone Edge somewhere on the set, it's in moves but not actually on the set which is a bit odd.

 

[Ares]

I'd at least mention Stone Edge somewhere on the set, it's in moves but not actually on the set which is a bit odd.

I found the best coverage was Double-Edge over Stone miss lol, leaving it as an options in moves means that it is still very viable choice to have on the set. And after rechecking with some calcs, pretty much the only KO that Marowak misses out on with rocks up is on Pelipper. The rest Marowak does at least 80% with Double-Edge meaning with rocks up it will get a guaranteed KO without having to rely on accuracy.

 

[Ares]

Think I got everything to my liking, ready for QC checks.

 

[Oshony PokeGod]

First off, marowak is too slow and knock off prone to be an effective tank.

236 speed lets it outspeed 0 speed toad, and everything under it.
Marowak actually needs a lot of speed, its a wallbreaker, but it needs to be faster than the walls it breaks.
This speed is crucial, because you can avoid knock offs from audino or some random wall with knock off.

Remove iron head it only has 10 more base power than ur ground stab, except on togetic, which stone miss does more. And steel should never be considered as a coverage move unless ur a fighting type.

Fire Punch should be listed on the main set, preferably before double-edge as it's Marowaks main coverage move vs grass types. Speaking if grasses, neither ferroseed not vileplume "wall" marowak, ferroseed is 2hkod and vileplume cannot even switch in, as it is also 2hko. Torterra and meganium are deserve the title of counters, while tangela avoids the 2hko from fire punch after rocks as long as its eviolite is intact.

In my experience double-edge rly only comes in handy with sub vs weezing, as weezing isnt 3hkod by Marowak. Weezing also cant break marowaks sub in 1 hit.

In my opinion the set should be:
Earthquake/Bonemerang
Knock Off
Fire Punch/Double Edge
Stealth Rock/Substitute

Also feel free to mention Stone Miss, as it not only hits pelipper, but phys. defensive rotom (air), who can tank a hit and force you out cuz if will-o-wisp or air slash "shenanigans". (Also vullaby, kinda)

 

[Ares]

48 speed allows it to outspeed base 50's including Audino and Vileplume, anymore sacrafices bulk and sometimes taking a hit is more important imo, if anyone on the QC feels like it should be max speed I'll change.
Iron head is in oo but after some calcing it only does like 3% more so I will remove that.
Fire punch does not get any OHKO on any grass type aside from Ferroseed, and Double Edge gets the 2HKO as well and provides more coverage outside of grass types.
Double-Edge comes in handy a lot more than fire punch does in my experience with Marowak
The set already looks similar to that, but without Fire punch as it like I said above doesnt really provide anything over Double Edge.
Bonemerang and Stone Edge are both mentioned in moves as other options to run on the set. Stone edge only really gets the kill on Pelipper with rocks up, Double-Edge has a possibility to KO.
Pls do not post links to other things you want checked, this is not the place for them and I will get around to it when I have time.

 

[Ares]

Removed physical walls cause after Calcing a bit Marowak 2HKO's a lot of common physical walls 0.o
Damn Marowak you scurry

 

[CanadianWifier]

Remove the line about stone edge in moves, or at least change it to "stone edge can be used to..." cause you don't have it slashed and you talk about it as if you do.
"while 48 base speed" ..it doesn't have base 48 speed, you're using 48 EVs
Elaborate a little more on how the special walls help Maro - by giving you switch-ins to grass / water moves aimed at it.

Just in general could use a bit more detail.

 

[Ares]

Remove the line about stone edge in moves, or at least change it to "stone edge can be used to..." cause you don't have it slashed and you talk about it as if you do.
"while 48 base speed" ..it doesn't have base 48 speed, you're using 48 EVs
Elaborate a little more on how the special walls help Maro - by giving you switch-ins to grass / water moves aimed at it.

Just in general could use a bit more detail.

yeah stone edge was slashed when I took it over from xzern, switched that and small mistake on the base speed thing :P

Will try to elaborate a little bit more on things. Also in write-up will also get more detailed

 

[CanadianWifier]

elaborate a little about the SD set in OO and you have yourself a
[QC 1/3]

 

[Ares]

implemented

 

[ryan]

ok cross-posting this from xzern's thread:

I agree with Montsegur--cut Stone Edge and mention it in Moves. Set should be more like:

Offensive
########
Name: Offensive
Move 1: Bonemerang
Move 2: Knock Off
Move 3: Double-Edge
Move 4: Stealth Rock / Substitute
ability: Rock Head
item: Thick Club
evs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
nature: Adamant

Marowak is not very bulky anyways, so outrunning stuff is better than having lots of bulk. The EVs outrun lots of important things! It outruns Adamant max Speed Rhydon and Jolly Carracosta. Bonemerang has roughly a 30% chance to KO Rhydon after Stealth Rock and a 100% chance to KO offensive Carracosta without hazards regardless of its ability. You also outrun other important stuff, including 0 Speed base 70s, Vileplume, and -Speed Seismitoad. I wouldn't even bother with Earthquake because killing Stealth Rock setters through Sturdy is huge, and Marowak has a good matchup vs. almost all of them barring Omastar (outspeeds even with Modest and kills 100% of the time with Scald), Torterra, and Seismitoad. You can also kill random Sash Garbodor and Qwilfish, preventing them from getting up more than one layer.

I wouldn't say that you should never stay in against Trick users. Mention that you should avoid them, but there might be times when killing off a Rotom is more useful than having Thick Club. Your Trick Room setters are also all kind of mediocre. If you're going to mention Trick Room support, which is fine, mention stuff like Musharna or Beheeyem, which are good at taking advantage of Trick Room themselves. Really, if you're running Trick Room, you should be using self-sufficient setters with some Pokemon that are good with or without it. Also, Scarf Magmortar? Go with Rotom-Spin or Typhlosion for that one.

Your examples for Fire Punch are odd because:
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 134-158 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- approx. 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 206-246 (58.1 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

Also, Bonemerang does just as much vs. Vileplume as Fire Punch does. I don't think Fire Punch is even worth the mention tbh.

Iron Head also hardly outdamages Fairy-types over Bonemerang. I don't think any other coverage is even worth using because it almost never outdamages its other coverage. The only one really worth the mention is Stone Edge, which is already in moves. I'd just say in OO that its coverage options are pretty poor because Bonemerang usually hits for nearly as much.

Again, don't even bother mentioning Ferroseed or Vileplume as checks in C/C because they can't even switch in. If you're trying to wall Marowak, you're doing it wrong.

Ignore anything that is irrelevant to yours :)

 

[Ares]

My only issue with Bonemerang is 90% accuracy, yeah ik its pretty accurate but I feel like I always seem to miss it in important situations. I will reslash it on the first set as there is next to no damage variation between the two moves, just the accuracy and being able to hit something twice.

 

[ryan]

Hitting twice is more important. Put EQ in moves for losers.

 

[Ares]

Hitting twice is more important. Put EQ in moves for losers.

Alright I'll just mention EQ in moves

 

[ryan]

2/3

 

[soulgazer]

Montsegur

/

 

[Ares]

Alright ready for GP checks. Once again writing the overview I feel like it needs work.

Also Soulgazer that QC check was legit as hell

 

[Muk]

ok ill do it shortly

Montsegur

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Overview
########

Marowak has two unique traits that make it stand out: Bonemerang and Thick Club ("Thick Club and Bonemerang" imo). Thick Club doubles Marowak's Attack, while Bonemerang hits twice and thus through Sturdy, Focus Sash, and Substitute. (maybe add in a sentence here about this giving it a niche in NU as a powerful Ground-type attacker or an Attack stat of X or something, this section is very short atm) With access to Stealth Rock, (AC) Marowak can also function as a lead, and it has decent physical bulk between its high Defense base stat and its average HP stat. However, despite its massive power and decent utility, Marowak's low base Speed stat and mediocre special bulk often hold it back.

Physical Offensive (we know it's going to be physical lol)
########
Name: Physical Offensive
Move 1: Bonemerang
Move 2: Double-Edge
Move 3: Substitute / Stealth Rock
Move 4: Knock Off
ability: Rock Head
item: Thick Club
evs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
nature: Adamant

Moves
========

Bonemerang is a STAB move that hits twice with 50 Base Power on each hit, which allows it to KO opponents through Sturdy, Focus Sash, and Substitute. However, it is only 90% accurate; Earthquake is an alternative with 100% accuracy. Double-Edge is powerful coverage move with no recoil thanks to Marowak's ability, Rock Head. Stone Edge can be used instead of Double-Edge for super effective coverage on Flying-types (you might want to move this sentence to the end of the paragraph). Substitute can be used to ease prediction, while Stealth Rock allows Marowak to function well as a lead. Knock Off is another great coverage move, hitting levitating Ghost-types.

Set Details
========

Maximum Attack investment is used for the largest possible damage output, while 216 Speed EVs allow Marowak to outpace uninvested base 70s and negative-natured Seismitoad. The remaining EVs are placed in HP to slightly increase Marowak's bulk. Thick Club is a unique item that doubles Marowak's Attack, while Rock Head prevents recoil damage from Double-Edge.

Usage Tips
========

Try to avoid Knock Off, because without Thick Club Marowak has mediocre Attack. Bring Marowak in on Pokemon that it outspeeds, or those that cannot do much to it offensively. Use Substitute on predicted switches or when you know a Pokemon is about to go for a support move.

(definitely expand on this section, imo ask a qc member or something about what to add)

Team Options
========

Fairy-types like Granbull and Slurpuff are good teammates for Marowak, as they can switch in on Knock Off. Special walls like Audino and Lickilicky can switch into Water-type and Grass-type moves aimed at Marowak. Entry hazard support from a Pokemon like Omastar or Crustle can give Marowak an easier time KOing opponents. Sticky Web setters like Leavanny and Ariados along with paralysis support can give Marowak the ability to outspeed several threats that are otherwise faster. Paralysis support also accomplishes this.

Other Options
########

Do not run any item other than Thick Club. Fire Punch is an option to OHKO Ferroseed and to hit other Grass-types slightly harder than Double-Edge. Swords Dance boosts Marowak's Attack even more and can help it OHKO walls like Ferroseed or Vileplume, though Marowak will find few opportunities to use it.

Checks & Counters
########

**Removal of Thick Club**: Moves like Knock Off and Trick that result in the removal of Thick Club, such as Knock Off and Trick, effectively halve Marowak's Attack stat, which seriously hampers its offensive capabilities.

**Special Sweepers**: Faster, (AC) specially offensive sweepers like Sceptile and Ludicolo take advantage of Marowak's low Special Defense stat and can OHKO it with super effective STAB attacks.

**Faster Pokemon That Resist Ground**: Pokemon that outpace Marowak and resist its Ground STAB are good checks. (AP) (definitely expand on this by giving examples, this is also pretty much the same as the above bullet)

**Will-O-Wisp**: Burns halve Marowak's Attack, tremendously reducing its offensive presence. (AP)

GP 1/2

 

[Ares]

Implemented and expanded upon suggested sections. Will have to calc a little bit when I get home for faster ground resists but otherwise this is ready for a second GP check.

 

[Ares]

I ended up removing faster ground resists from C&C because it was to similar to fast special sweepers, I changed it to defensive ground type resists as pokemon like ferroseed and vileplume get 2hko'd and can not switch in, I think its important to note this in there.

Ready for next GP check

 

[frenzyplant]

amcheck :)

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Overview
########

Marowak has two unique traits that make it stand out, Thick Club and Bonemerang. Thick Club doubles Marowak's Attack while Bonemerang hits twice and thus through Sturdy, Focus Sash, and Substitute. This gives Marowak a niche in NU, (remove comma) as a powerful Ground-type attacker, with Thick Club maximizing Marowak's Attack out at 568. With access to Stealth Rock, Marowak can also function as a lead, and it has decent physical bulk between its high Defense and its average HP. However, despite its massive power and decent utility, Marowak's low Speed and mediocre special bulk often hold it back.

Offensive
########
name: Offensive
move 1: Bonemerang
move 2: Double-Edge
move 3: Substitute / Stealth Rock
move 4: Knock Off
ability: Rock Head
item: Thick Club
evs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
nature: Adamant

Moves
========

Bonemerang is a STAB move that hits twice with 50 Base Power on each hit, which allowings it to KO opponents through Sturdy, Focus Sash, and Substitute. However, it is only 90% accurate; Earthquake is an alternative with 100% accuracy. Double-Edge is a powerful coverage move with no recoil thanks to Marowak's ability, Rock Head. Substitute can be used to ease prediction, while Stealth Rock allows Marowak to function well as a lead. Knock Off is another great coverage move, hitting levitating (what does Levitate have to do with it?) Ghost-types. Stone Edge can be used instead of Double-Edge for super effective coverage on to hit Flying-types super effectively.

Set Details
========

Maximum Attack investment is used for the largest possible damage output, while 216 Speed EVs allow Marowak to outpace uninvested base 70 Speed Pokemon and negative-natured Seismitoad. The remaining Evs are placed in HP to slightly increase Marowak's bulk. Thick Club is a unique item that doubles Marowak's Attack, while Rock Head prevents recoil damage from Double-Edge.

Usage Tips
========

Try to avoid being hit by Knock Off, because without Thick Club Marowak has mediocre Attack. Bring Marowak in on Pokemon that it outspeeds, or on those that cannot do much to it offensively. If bringing it in on a slower offensive threat, (comma) do so through a double switch or a pivoting move such as Volt Switch and (slash to "and") U-turn. Use Substitute on predicted switches or when you know a Pokemon is about to go for a support move. Marowak can be used as a good anti-lead (dash), (comma) breaking Focus Sash and Sturdy with Bonemerang and limiting Spikes setters such as Garbodor and Qwilfish to only one layer. Limiting spike setters like Garbador and Qwilfish to only one layer. However, (comma) be wary of Omastar, Torterra, and Seismitoad, as Omastar can always OHKO Marowak 100% of the time with Scald, (comma) and Torterra and Seismitoad can live Marowak's attack and hit back with super effective STAB attacks.

Team Options
========

Fairy-types like such as Granbull and Slurpuff are good teammates for Marowak, as they can switch in on Knock Off. Special walls like such as Audino and Lickilicky can switch into Water- (dash) and Grass-type moves aimed at Marowak. Entry hazards support from a Pokemon like such as Omastar or and Crustle can give Marowak an easier time KOing opponents. Sticky Web setters like such as Leavanny and Ariados and paralysis support can give Marowak the ability to outspeed (remove space) several threats that are otherwise faster. Paralysis support also accomplishes this.

Other Options
########

Do not run any item other than Thick Club. Fire Punch is an option to OHKO Ferroseed and to hit other Grass-types (dash) slightly harder than Double-Edge. Swords Dance boosts Marowak's Attack even more and can help it OHKO walls like Ferroseed or Vileplume, though Marowak will find few opportunities to use it.

Checks & Counters
########

**Removal of Thick Club**: Moves that result in the removal of Thick Club, such as Knock Off and Trick, effectively halve Marowak's Attack stat, which seriously hamperings its offensive capabilities.

**Special Sweepers**: Faster, specially offensive special sweepers like such as Sceptile and Ludicolo can take advantage of Marowak's low Special Defense and can to OHKO it with super effective STAB attacks.

**Defensive Grass-type Resists**: Tangela and Quilladin resist Marowak's STAB moves and can threaten Marowak with their Grass-type STAB moves a Giga Drain or a Wood Hammer; note that Ferroseed and Vileplume do not fall under this category as both of them are 2HKOed by Marowak's STAB moves.

**Will-O-Wisp**: Burns halve Marowak's Attack, tremendously reducing its offensive presence.