Metagame np: Stage 1 - We Might Be Dead By Tomorrow

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Calm mind or even curse musharna is a great baton passer. I haven't personally used it except I have spectated some battles from other people in the NU room and it's incredibly bulky, and is a good baton passer overall. It isn't great if u want something to get up a quick boost though, it's better to stay in and keep setting up because of its bulk. I would make sure there aren't any powerful knock off users or other strong dark type before setting up.

Musharna could possibly even use Colbur Berry effectively.

252 Atk Life Orb Liepard Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Musharna: 126-149 (28.8 - 34.1%) -- 3% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Musharna Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Liepard: 212-250 (78.8 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (dead after LO + SR)

And then you have no item so Knock Off isn't even a problem anymore due to Musharna's raw bulk. It does seem like Colbur + Dazzling Gleam allows Musharna to get past its best counters like Spiritomb, Liepard and... yeah that's it for counters. Sneasel and Pawniard are not even switchins. I'm starting to think that more people should start using Mushy again. You don't even need to Baton Pass, Mushy can sweep on its own with Moonlight and CM because it's so bulky and powerful with just one or two boosts. Mushy's only real issue is 4MSS because it would like to run Heal Bell/Dazzling Gleam/Psyshock/Moonlight/Barrier/Baton Pass but it can't.

 

[Swagalge]

Main problem with Mush is the abundance of steel types, especially those like Klinklang who are happy to set up alongside you


inb4 hp fire

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Main problem with Mush is the abundance of steel types, especially those like Klinklang who are happy to set up alongside you


inb4 hp fire

Ehhh you can take "abundance" with a grain of salt imo. There's Ferroseed/Steelix/Klinklang/Probopass which is 4 mons. Ferroseed gets setup on barring Toxic, same for Probopass and Steelix can really only phaze you out and lacks recovery (can potentially Toxic but eh). And it's not like you can't easily check Klinklang with stuff like Seismitoad, Gurdurr or Stunfisk anyways, so there's no need for HP Fire.

 

[ryan]

Ehhh you can take "abundance" with a grain of salt imo. There's Ferroseed/Steelix/Klinklang/Probopass which is 4 mons. Ferroseed gets setup on barring Toxic, same for Probopass and Steelix can really only phaze you out and lacks recovery (can potentially Toxic but eh). And it's not like you can't easily check Klinklang with stuff like Seismitoad, Gurdurr or Stunfisk anyways, so there's no need for HP Fire.

+6 0 SpA Musharna Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 108-128 (36.9 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
use spdef seed B)

for real though, it can leech seed and stall you out of moonlights, esp if it has protect. not to say that musharna isn't good, but it can't set up on seed that comfortably, even if it's not spdef, because of seeds.

 

[MrCookiepants]

+6 0 SpA Musharna Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 108-128 (36.9 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
use spdef seed B)

for real though, it can leech seed and stall you out of moonlights, esp if it has protect. not to say that musharna isn't good, but it can't set up on seed that comfortably, even if it's not spdef, because of seeds.

Is Ferroseed typically max SpDef though? Forgive my ignorance.

And I prefer Stored Power on Musharna, even though it can make it dead weight in some situations.

+4 0 SpA Musharna Stored Power (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 162-191 (55.4 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Basically you need a Dark type if you want to stall Musharna out.

+6 0 SpA Musharna Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 688-811 (96.3 - 113.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

lol

 

[Nozzle]

Helo guys i wanted to share this awesome set with you all that i think deserves more love :)

Uxie @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Dazzling Gleam
- Rest

ChestoCM Uxie :D
This set is truly amazing and way better than the standard SubCM set imo. Can set up on a ton of mons just as SubCM Uxie. People will often try to weaken it as much as possible so it's easily revenge killed when it attempts a sweep. Rest, however gives Uxie all of its health back and it will be extremely hard to kill with all that defense investment and spdef boosts so it can easily sit there for a while and try to plow through teams :)
Ofc it needs a lot of boosts do even do moderate damage but it's really not hard to set up. You only need to watch out for knock off since you need that Chesto Berry.



Also .9k posts so here are the shoutouts but i dont have time to give descriptions and stuff behind names :/ so heres a big ass clumped list of names. I love you all ;)

Hide

Aaron's Aron Adrian Marin Albacore absdaddy Aerow Aladyyn apt-get Arikado Assassin Rogue Ashley11 atomicllamas BandannaWaddleDoo Bazi Brawlfest Can-Eh-Dian cbt Charmander Celever Cherub Agent Chieliee cxinlee DeathxShinigami Demist Don Honchkrorleone Deej Dy Dracoyoshi8 Expulso Fallacies fleurdyleurse galbia Gale Wing Srock Goddess Briyella HJAD Hollywood Hulavuta Imanalt InsaneDragoniteHD iTeddeh Jonater Kavatika Kingler12345 Kushalos Laga Lasagne Lolk Mew MFF Monte Cristo Montsegur MoxieInfinite NotHyunation Oopa Politoed Pikachuun Punchshroom Quite Quiet QuoteCS Raseri Robert Alfons Rowan Scarf Buck scorpdestroyer Soulgazer shnen sieme Silvershadow234 skylight Slory Snaquaza Swagalge Superpowerdude shaymin tennisace The Unlucky one TheCanadianWifier Togie Trollax:3 Ultimathunder Turtleye Typhlito unfixable UCN xzern Zebraiken

I really really hope i didnt miss anyone
I wish i talked to some of you more than i currently do :(

 

[a$h trayy14]

Hello there guys. I'm a$h trayy, new to PS' NU and I'd like to share a set with y'all that has become my favourite in this metagame.

The Almighty Cactus!

Cacturne @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Giga Drain
- Sucker Punch

I've been using this set ever since I started playing PS' NU and it rarely let me down. Some of you guys might have seen me on the ladder with it. It easily surprises many opponents because this mixed set isn't really common. Many of my opponents bring a physical wall in on him thinking I'm going to SP or Seed Bomb but instead I click Giga Drain/Dark Pulse/Focus Blast and watch things lose major HP. Sucker Punch is never expected especially when my opponents bring in Cryo once they think its just the special kind, I just click sucker punch Cryo gets OHKO'ed (4 Atk Life Orb Cacturne Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cryogonal: 309-367 (109.5 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO). And it helps bring down mons that outspeed me and mons I've done major damage to.

 

[HJAD]

My main problem with cacturne is that it needs too much support in order to function well. I made a team not long ago around SD life orb cacturne based purely on the fact it can ohko physically defensive vileplume in one hit with sucker punch. During testing I found, you never find oppurtuinities to set-up and once you do, sucker punch is one of the easiest moves to play around if you know what you are doing. Cacturne is very powerful but also really slow, and really not that bulky. You can decide to bolster each stat at the cost of being easily checked or easily killed. I really do hope it gets some bulk (since cactus aren't fast by nature) or people forevermore will be running assault vest on it :(

 

[Punchshroom]

Having the most powerful Sucker Punch (and by extension, the strongest priority) in the tier is still worth a look at. Granted it's not as alluring as Shiftry's "strongest Knock Off in the tier", but it's something :/

Mixed Cacturne is probably the way to go for one simple factor: usable Dark STAB for non-attacking opponents. When it cannot use Sucker Punch, Cacturne's only good physical options consist of Grass + Fighting, which is pretty bad coverage on its own. Unlike Liepard, Cacturne cannot make use of Encore to punish foes dodging Sucker Punch, nor it can do Infiltrator shenanigans like Tomb can. Throw in a LO Dark Pulse in there and incline Cacturne towards special offensive investment, and the number of Pokes that would've rope-a-doped around Cacturne suddenly plummet. For starters, it lets you totally fuck up Vileplume and Weezing's shit. All while keeping that powerful LO Sucker Punch (albeit weakened).

 

[jake]

Since I've been laddering a lot lately using stall, I've seen about a katrillion forfeits and many stall vs stall matchups on the upper end of the ladder lately. I think the NU meta has settled to the point that stall is just turning into a great playstyle again - what's particularly awesome is that I've seen four or five different variants on stall teams with none of them really looking the same. But this merits us having a discussion: what exactly breaks stall in NU? Are we to the point that teams should be running dedicated stallbreakers?

I have a lot of experience with this so I'll be sharing my thoughts on particular stallbreakers that at least my teams had trouble with, but I'd like to see what everyone else has to share first. :O

 

[soviet]

from my experiences ho doesn't really have problems with stall. you can easily stop cryogonal from spinning if you carry a spin-blocker since all you need to do is stop it once and then pressure it accordingly. if they run a defogger it's not that hard to preserve your hazard setter and pressure their defogger and they're probably not running spikes so you can pivot around more freely with your set up sweepers and eventually find an opening. of course it's not fool proof and you can lose if you mispredict too many times, but generally stall is at a disadvantage when playing ho

balance probably has more troubles with stall but it's still beatable if you carry your own hazards and some form of offensive presence.

PS: fedoras own hard

 

[Yellow Cheese]

Mixmortar and MagVire poops on stall from my experience, and when the opponent has lost their audino stall becomes much easier to deal with. Also Specs omastar in rain destroys lives

 

[viol and bass]

Sawk still eats stall. This gen it has to pick its moves wisely, and it can struggle against other playstyles, but when facing stall it can still take out whatever the fuck it wants. Stall just doesn't really have the means to take advantage of a Sawk that's choice-locked like other playstyles do, and since it's not exceptionally vulnerable to hazards, it can just come in repeatedly and tear shit up.

 

[Nozzle]

Im pretty sure audino is the mon that holds stall teams together. I have yet to see a succesful stallteam without audino.

 

[HJAD]

For me, since I'm the guy who ran the stall workshop quite a long time ago, I've learnt a lot about how stall functions in nu and what other people do to break stall on this tier. It comes to me that how you beat stall is by making them play by your game and not by theirs. This means preventing hazards and trying to take out key parts of his stall team.
Personally, on the high ladder, I do run a dedicated stallbreaker on my teams to give me an upper hand vs. That play style.

Xatu @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP/ 252 Def/ 8 Spe
Bold Nature
-Calm Mind
-Roost
-Psyshock
-Dazzling Gleam

For me, this Mon is a fantastic stall breaker since it can't be status'd or encore'd. The only threat to this set is frost beat offensive cryogonal which is hardly ever used on stall teams and like life orb sheer force crunch steelix (who runs that anyway)
In my opinion, this is the limiting factor of stall since nu is such a diverse tier its difficult to prepare for every set of every Mon. Therefore, stuff like super power feraligatr (basically lures) pretty much shut down stall as the opponent basically has no switch ins for said threat.
Xatu also aids in keeping hazards off the field which is crucial when playing stall as well.

Edit: yes I have been asked what the best stall breaker is during the workshop, and during my testing phase xatu w/ psyshock was the best (since you beat cryogonal)

 

[Brawlfest]

Im pretty sure audino is the mon that holds stall teams together. I have yet to see a succesful stallteam without audino.

PM ill give you like 5 importables without audino for stall :[

Also people use defensive rotom please its so good..

 

[HJAD]

Sawk still eats stall. This gen it has to pick its moves wisely, and it can struggle against other playstyles, but when facing stall it can still take out whatever the fuck it wants. Stall just doesn't really have the means to take advantage of a Sawk that's choice-locked like other playstyles do, and since it's not exceptionally vulnerable to hazards, it can just come in repeatedly and tear shit up.

Spiritomb. Granbull. It doesn't eat stall :/

 

[marilli]

I don't think I'd be comfortable running stall in a tier with SmashPass being a really really viable strategy, especially when your only special wall is super setup bait. Special setup mons with a way to get past Cryogonal really sucks to deal with from my experience. Maybe I didn't have enough bases covered, because now I think of it a Steelix variant of some sort could probably just deal with Psychic CM users.

Building stall is really stressful especially when you've just started off because unless you actually teambuild properly you have no chance against some threats and it just sucks to lose the game in the teambuilder screen.

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Granbull: 164-194 (42.7 - 50.5%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Band Sawk can still break stall. Banders and Specs users really need to predict properly to win against stall. Note some stall mons have protect (ferro, audino, etc.) This has always been the case, and it should be a good thing. If something that's useful otherwise can post a big threat to stall just by mindlessly clicking 1 move, that's when stall really becomes bad.

 

[Deej Dy]

Stall is not as solved as easy as slapping on sawk, magvire, and hazards. A good stall player knows the movesets puts up appropriate entry hazards and will bait them going for obvious moves. Tbh i dont think I've ever lost a game due to magvire, audino walls them to pieces, even with focus blast, a simple knock off to mag will make its f blast do less than 50% then you can easily just protect and wish to stall or simply switch out to something that resists it, switch back in with regenerator. xatu is also easily solved with a steelix, scyther, gatr, or anything else that can set up with it. Stall is a great play-style now if you know how to use it and I'm not sure you guys are appreciating its power atm. Oh yeah and smashpassing never works vs max spc def cry so dont try that argument either ;)

 

[HJAD]

But deej, xatu sets up on steelix and stall doesn't run feraligatr or scythed to trouble it. The best stall teams in my opinion have an offensive presence to deal with other threats or sweep late game on a weakened team

 

[Deej Dy]

But deej, xatu sets up on steelix and stall doesn't run feraligatr or scythed to trouble it. The best stall teams in my opinion have an offensive presence to deal with other threats or sweep late game on a weakened team

Xatu will run out of roosts/die (maybe to a crit) before dazz gleam and psyshock will do anything (esp if the steelix is sheer force, which everyone should run and even more so if it has invested attack). and if you dont run gleam, tomb will eat you up.

 

[Deej Dy]

Point being if you play a staller who knows what they are doing and thought about common threats during teambuilding you're in for a very tough match.

 

[viol and bass]

Spiritomb. Granbull. It doesn't eat stall :/

Offensive Spiritomb is 2HKOed; defensive Spiritomb and Granbull are both 2HKOed (taking into account intimidate in Granbull's case) after rocks and a single layer of spikes. Hazards are not hard to keep up in this meta.

 

[glock in my toyota]

I wouldnt count on Sawk to break Stall. It is seriously not reliable, as something can easily scout your move first, and if you are choiced in any way, which you should be, they bring in the appropriate counter. For example, stall team has Audino out, Breaking team has Sawk. Stall team has Granbull and Spiritomb in the back. Audino protects to scout the Sawk's move. If you...

Close Combatted: Audino switches into Spiritomb and takes nothing in return.

Predicted Granbull and Poison Jabbed: Audino switches into Spiritomb and takes very little in return.

Went for Knock Off predicting Spiritomb: Audino switches into Granbull and takes nearly nothing in return.

In this situation, the Sawk User loses in all three scenarios after a simple scout. So unless you are using the (not as good) Life Orb Sawk set, a combination of 2 mons + Scout beats it. Simply put, Sawk is not reliable for breaking Stall.

 

[Deej Dy]

Agreed, if you play a stall player above rank 1300, they will take sawk and whoop your ass with it, using it to their advantage (similarly with other choice sets)