I dunno how well it might work in OU because of Sand, but in UU I ran 28 HP EVs which brought me to 304 (which were leftover from aiming to outspeed base 100s), and that allowed me to get the boost after two Subs or one Sub + 2 SR switchins (I even won a game once thanks to that, my Lucha had been forced out by a Klefki and I could revenge an Outraging Haxorus because of that second SR hit). In this case, since you kinda want to outspeed up to Garchomp, it could be recommended to run 30 HP IVs (so 296) to not waste so many Attack EVs. That's divisible by 4 and 8, but not by 16 (unlike 304), meaning that Sand could potentially screw your set up. Otherwise you have to run 232 Attack EVs with 28 HP to still outspeed Garchomp, so pick your poison I guess.
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Pokémon Hawlucha
- Thread starter Molk
- Start date
- Status
robin williams, the best panic button in the game make hawlucha and only hawlucha shit.
no. robin williams thunder waves basically every non ground sweeper.
but jokes aside, after aegislash got banned, it can be a p sick lure to burd spam and it allows it to muscle through zapdos, one of the best counters to it.
Obligatory calcs:
From looking at it, Jolly LO Stone Edge, unboosted can guarantee a 1HKO on an uninvested Thundurus (and Limber fears no Thunder Wave), but can't quite hit a 1HKO otherwise. Unboosted it doesn't come anywhere near a KO on physically defensive Zapdos, but guarantees a OHKO if Stone Edge actually hits at +2.
Stupid Crap Time:
Jolly Hawlucha/Limber/Life Orb, Stone Edge/U-Turn/Bounce/Swords Dance?
Hah, man, I realized halfway through how dumb that sounded. But on the other hand, even Jolly Hawlucha's +2 Bounce is pretty painful and few things want to switch into a 30% paralyze chance.
I'm not going to lie, that's a goofy set, but it'd do the job of luring out Zapdos or Thundurus, neither of which come anywhere near outspeeding a Hawlucha. On the other hand, unless you swap U-turn for Brick Break/HJK, the set would get walled by Rock or Steel types if they caught on to the lack of Fighting moves.
I don't think U-turn is that great of an idea on a boosting set. I think putting Brick Break/HJK would be better than U-turn on that set. Hawlucha may be the only Pokemon that Bounce actually works for now that Aeigislash is gone.
i mean you don't have to run limber, but if you do, it can absorb twaves which are more important in on thundy.
unburden is a much better ability anyway so i think adamant is more useful.
Probably depends if Hawluchas your sweeper or what. Choose either normal speed without being scared of paralysis, or take the risk and decide to go for more speed.
What about Lum berry and unburden? Lum comes ing when you get hit by status, and then Unburden kicks in, giving you the speed boost. It requires you to get hit by a status move, which will not come in all the time, but you might be able to predict a Will-o/Toxic/TWave, or even switch in with TSpikes, and you get it. Sitrus berry is probably more reliable with Unburde, since being attacked is more predictable than status.
the point of my set is to hit zapdos/thundurus/burdspam on the switch in.
252+ Atk Hawlucha Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 152-180 (39.5 - 46.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
although i will admit is a bit gimmicky and has a chance to miss which could make it unreliable.
Hawlucha @ Lum Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
- Acrobatics
i would run this shit if i really wanted to run stone edge hawlucha
252+ Atk Hawlucha Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 152-180 (39.5 - 46.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
although i will admit is a bit gimmicky and has a chance to miss which could make it unreliable.
Hawlucha @ Lum Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
- Acrobatics
i would run this shit if i really wanted to run stone edge hawlucha
Set is pretty good, you can set up an SD without Status (\Klefki and Sableye say O hi der) but Acrobatics will require you to have eaten the berry, so that would give some problems. Unless you have eaten it before/while setting up, that 65 base power (Correct me if I'm wrong) won't be doing much.
55.
Making an unboosted Acrobatics only slightly weaker than the only other single-turn Flying moves Hawlucha can learn.
Can't a non-Mega Gyarados still run Bounce, or is that not a thing any more? I can't imagine that there's much that actually wants to switch into a boosted STAB Bounce coming off a 125 base attack.
But I digress.
You're probably right; that set is meant to be an opportunistic one at any rate. Taking an opportunity to SD and start pounding with Bounce or Stone Edge if one presents itself, and otherwise running hit-and-run attacks with U-Turn.
Alternatively, an Encore might be useful. Switch Hawlucha in on something that just used a Ground move, Encore it to lock it in, then U-Turn out. Whatever comes in after will either have switch advantage or will have two turns of Encore lock left to play with; you can do a lot with a couple rounds of Encore lock.
Small tip: Use Memento Latios with SubSD Hawlucha, it's one of the easiest ways to give an advantageous match-up to Hawlucha (as Latios draws in Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, and Bisharp, all Pokemon Hawlucha can set up on) as well as give it a chance to set up without dying to every single priority hit afterwards. Credit to CTC for the idea, i saw it on the Hawlucha team he made in his thread.
Has anybody tried out flying press as a sole flying STAB?
It has decent BP, can use an item, and still hits what it needs to hit.
Keldeo,breloom,conkeldurr,and chesnaught are still hit hard, your better off kicking terrakion, and venu sure as hell avoids switching in.
You lose out on bugs, but hera is still hit for X2, and staying in on pinsir isnt too smart anyway, not to mention running Stone edge.
It has decent BP, can use an item, and still hits what it needs to hit.
Keldeo,breloom,conkeldurr,and chesnaught are still hit hard, your better off kicking terrakion, and venu sure as hell avoids switching in.
You lose out on bugs, but hera is still hit for X2, and staying in on pinsir isnt too smart anyway, not to mention running Stone edge.
Flying Press is not only weaker than Acrobatics, but it also does not strike a lot of Flying weak Pokemon/Fighting resistant Pokemon. Mega Pinsir and Scolipede resist Flying Press, you don't get to KO Venusaur, and you don't hit Psychics, Fairies, and Ghosts for much/anything at all.
Vouching for the SubSD set. That thing is a freaking monster, completely wrecking unprepared teams. Substitutes can even block it from common priority moves, and after that, not much can actually stomach a +2 Acrobatics/High Jump Kick. Much like what Alexwolf said about Latios, that's am amazing matchup (I prefer Latias for Healing Wish being an overall better suicide move, but memento's perfect for setting up Hawlucha). Now with Aegislash gone, I can honestly see this thing bumping up to OU.
Totally just pulled this gimmick set out of my ass.
Hawlucha@Kee Berry (SpD one?)/Leftovers
Unburden/Mold Breaker
Careful 252 HP / 4 Df / 252 SpD
~ Bulk Up
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
~ Bounce
I got this idea when someone mentioned Bounce. I thought that the cool thing was if Sleep Talk picks Bounce that essentially gives you a free turn to wear off sleep. The move has a nice 30% paralysis chance and combined with Bulk Up eventually Hawlucha won't seem so frail anymore. Attacking his special side (like a Scald, which would be great to switch into) would activate your berry and Unburden and just make you all the more difficult to take out. Otherwise, simply abuse Leftovers for passive healing and take advantage of Mold Breaker so that Quagsire and Clefable can't wall you.
EDIT: Go figure, Sleep Talk can't select Bounce
Hawlucha@Kee Berry (SpD one?)/Leftovers
Unburden/Mold Breaker
Careful 252 HP / 4 Df / 252 SpD
~ Bulk Up
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
~ Bounce
I got this idea when someone mentioned Bounce. I thought that the cool thing was if Sleep Talk picks Bounce that essentially gives you a free turn to wear off sleep. The move has a nice 30% paralysis chance and combined with Bulk Up eventually Hawlucha won't seem so frail anymore. Attacking his special side (like a Scald, which would be great to switch into) would activate your berry and Unburden and just make you all the more difficult to take out. Otherwise, simply abuse Leftovers for passive healing and take advantage of Mold Breaker so that Quagsire and Clefable can't wall you.
EDIT: Go figure, Sleep Talk can't select Bounce
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believe me sand does jack shit to it. if drill iron heads you, you can just SD, gain HP from sitrus and activate unburden, then you are faster than sand rush drill. But the best way to set up is against something that will want to status you. Sub up, then SD next turn. if they switch that turn its gg. it doesnt matter if they send in a faster pokemon, once at +2 just keep subbing until sitrus activates along with unburden so you can then outspeed that mon, kill it, and you will still have a sub up. its an amazing mid/late game sweeper, you just have to play it properly.
You misunderstood me, or maybe I didn't make myself clear. The thing about sand was regarding the spread, since 28 HP EVs gets you to the first number divisible by 16, but it forces you to run 232 Attack if you wanna outspeed Chomper. That's why I said that it might not be the best point, although in turn running 30 HP IVs doesn't allow you to get Unburden activated after SR, Sub, and two turns of sand damage. At no point I was referring to sand as a playstyle, and believe me, I've been the first guy to spam Hawlucha the minute UU Beta came to be, so I know what it's capable of—even if OU is completely different, those things you said are true for any tier.
Hey, I haven't read too much of this thread, but I was recently enlightened to the awesomeness that is hawlucha, and just felt I had to share a few replays showcasing it's potential to wreck stuff:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-153702620
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-152951842
IMO, the only thing holding hawlucha back from being OU is flyspam. Without the threat of talonflame and mega-pinsir, hawl would be running amok in OU like a boss.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-153702620
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-152951842
IMO, the only thing holding hawlucha back from being OU is flyspam. Without the threat of talonflame and mega-pinsir, hawl would be running amok in OU like a boss.
well i dont know why having an hp value divisible by 16 is a bad thing. something to do with sandstorm damage? i never got that deep into battling before.
No, not a bad thing in this case, all the contrary. If sand is common (which it wasn't in UU, but it didn't matter because the spread fit perfectly), then having the ability to activate Unburden after SR, Sub and two turns of sand is good. The thing about that is that it either forces you to underspeed Chomper (since the spread would be 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe Adamant) or have 5 less Attack points if you run 28 HP / 232 Atk / 248 Spe Adamant (that becomes 10 points at +2, which is where the problem lies, similarly to running a Jolly nature). In turn, if you don't care about sand because of your team, running 252 Atk / 8 Def / 248 Spe Adamant with 30 HP IVs is a possibility, since the resulting HP value is divisible by 4 and 8, but not 16.
So I know most everyone prefers Sitrus berry on the SubSD set to fair better against sand and is just generally useful in a pinch, but is there any merit to a Liechi berry? If you have a more aggressive team, or one that can effectively remove Ttar or Hippo It could be useful in a pinch. It helps against opposing aggressive or hyper offensive teams which might not give you a chance to set up an SD too, since you activate unburden and get an attack boost at the same time.
I'm going to be running some calcs on the merits of having +3 rather than +2 attack, will update this post in a bit.
Calcs:
+3 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 261-307 (78.1 - 91.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 210-247 (62.8 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+3 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 262-310 (66.4 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 211-249 (53.5 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+3 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 352-415 (83.2 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+3 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 298-352 (70.4 - 83.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 238-282 (56.2 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 282-333 (66.6 - 78.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+3 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 322-379 (91.4 - 107.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 256-303 (72.7 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
+3 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 325-384 (106.9 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 261-307 (85.8 - 100.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
So Liechi berry? Not a significantly good investment. Against the premier physical walls of OU you're not changing much (keep in mind I used the specially defensive Gliscor, physically defensive gliscor laughs at you, as does Landorus-T and defensive Gyarados.)
I'm going to be running some calcs on the merits of having +3 rather than +2 attack, will update this post in a bit.
Calcs:
+3 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 261-307 (78.1 - 91.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 210-247 (62.8 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+3 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 262-310 (66.4 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 211-249 (53.5 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+3 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 352-415 (83.2 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+3 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 298-352 (70.4 - 83.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 238-282 (56.2 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 282-333 (66.6 - 78.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+3 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 322-379 (91.4 - 107.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 256-303 (72.7 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
+3 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 325-384 (106.9 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 261-307 (85.8 - 100.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
So Liechi berry? Not a significantly good investment. Against the premier physical walls of OU you're not changing much (keep in mind I used the specially defensive Gliscor, physically defensive gliscor laughs at you, as does Landorus-T and defensive Gyarados.)
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Vaporeon Isn't Bad
Banned deucer.
Hawlucha is kinda iffy. Itd be great if it had a higher attack stat, but its only 94, meaning it cant sweep after that sky attack power herb undburden, because tanks that hawlucha isnt good against kinda wreck it.
Like who, out of curiosity?
Most of the discussion in this thread primarily concerns the fact that at +2, Hawlucha can muscle past half the metagame. The only tank that really, truly destroyed him was Aegislash, and that's not a problem any longer; Thundy and Zapdos give him issues, too, but alternative sets can bully past those as well.
He's too frail to be a mainstay of modern OU, but he can absolutely make that 94 Attack stat work hard. It's got to be kept in mind that Hawlucha was kicked out of the UU tier entirely because the Acro/HJK STAB combo let him massacre the entire UU tier with an SD and an Unburden boost.
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