Tier Shift Viability Rankings (Complete Revamp)

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megacrazyhand What fun would this game be if you didn't use random mons? That is what brings fun into it. It wouldn't be the same game with everyone using the same thing. Hasn't anyone else used Assault Vest Armaldo? With a sun team? If not, here is how that works http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/tiershift-150997541
Anyway, Politoed and rain abusers need to be ranked as they are threats, but I don't think Politoed is quite S Rank. While it does have good stats, it is still easily walled by pokemon like CM Cress and Chansey. You also have to hold Damp Rock to be effective, which can be limiting. I will rank them later when I have time.

xJownage I tested out Diggersby, worked nicely as a scarfed. Needs more testing but I think A Rank could be deserved.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/tiershift-150948340 Thanks to bestoise97 for the battle
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
If you see a bunch of stall teams, you can also use SD diggersby too, which absolutely wrecks stallish teams. You can double boost too (not the best idea), or just use agility instead, as the speed boost can allow it to abuse its high power stabs with a very good speed tier.
 
Yay, Amoongus is in 2 places!

Also, Shedinja has to go somewhere. It has sword dance shadow sneak, and it's no longer instakilled by hazards. If it's hp was one lower it would be a magic number. Also since it's one shotted by basically everything, it shouldn't be too high up.
 
I don't think Diggersby is as good as other A Ranks... it's really powerful but weak to Fighting/Water priority. Ghost and Flying/Levitate pokemon can switch into half of its attacks... and all the Gourgeists/Mismagius/Gengar wall its STABs. Wild Charge can be used, but it doesn't have room for it: Return, EQ and Quick Attack are a must, while choiced versions want U-Turn and non-choiced versions want a boosting move. It has decent bulk but a below-average typing, and its speed isn't too high either (Timid decreases power too much). I think B+ is more appropriate than A-.

I actually want to nominate Kyurem for A- (or maybe even A). It's still restricted to special attacks but honestly its high stats and versatility make it very good. It's typing is a mixed bag but it's a dragon who isn't bothered by ice. It's bulk of 135/100/100 makes up for it and Sub-Roost+Pressure outstalls most stall teams. Not only that but it has a nice 105 base speed and most importantly, 140/140 offenses.

So between it and Kyu-B: Bolt Strike + Higher Physical Attack + Mold Breaker vs. More Bulk + Higher Speed + Pressure + Higher Special Attack.

Also nominating Tornadus for C/C+. It has a pretty decent bulk of 89/80/90 but more importantly its offenses are 125/135/121 so it definitely has some use over the other special genies. Rain teams love it for high speed and spamming Hurricanes off high base power. It still doesn't have regenerator or TWave, but it can also provide Tailwind support and run a Defiant+Sitrus Berry+Acrobatics set (with Bulk Up too if necessary).

And my last nomination for the day, Golbat for B+/C-. It has eviolite-boosted 85/80/85 bulk, a nice base speed, a great typing, a useful ability in infiltrator, and moves with a lot of utility: Haze, Toxic, Defog, Roost, Taunt, U-Turn, Whirlwind and even Super Fang. Infiltrator+Pursuit also laughs at Shedinja.
 
nominating Durant for B+ rank



With incredible 68/119/122/58/58/119 boosted stats and great typing, durant is a true offensive force in this metagame. Its ability hustle and phenomenal speed tier give it the ability to utilize its strong stab moves and give it more offensive prowess than mega-scizor
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 139-165 (25 - 29.7%) -- 89.9% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 185-218 (33.3 - 39.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
After a hone claws boost hustle's accuracy drop is negated and durant can easily sweep offensive teams, and make quite a dent in defensive teams.
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 224-265 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
 
First I'd like to second the nomination for Durant to be B+ rank. Then I'd like to question why Bidoof isn't Bidoof rank yet. In order for this to be so, I'd like to put a formal nomination in for Bidoof to be Bidoof rank. Due to its total inability to either wall, tank or dish out hits it deserves the lowest rank of all. Also, I feel like we should put Luvdisc there as well but as I haven't really play tested it I won't formally nominate it.
 
Sorry, I have been busy. I will put Bidoof in its rank once I find the sprite. warriorman222 where did you find that sprite? Please tell
Something called Google.

If you want to know the site Google got it from, check here

The sprite i got is outdated and there's a newer one next to it. Fuck that i want the animated one.



EDIT: For bidoof.
Pick waht you prefer Gen 6 or animated Gen 5.




yeah, this might be getting old after shedinja.
 
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EV

Banned deucer.
Sorry, I have been busy. I will put Bidoof in its rank once I find the sprite. warriorman222 where did you find that sprite? Please tell
Wait, why are we mentioning Bidoof and Co. again? Anything not in S through D is in assumed to be in Bidoof rank until proven otherwise. Please don't start actually putting sprites there; it will make this thread a mess. Unless this is just a joke that I'm not getting since I haven't had enough coffee yet. If that's the case then "ha ha?"

Also megacrazyhand you should probably say why you think Durant deserves B+. "I think it deserves that rank because...."
 
Zangoose for A+ need a stallbreaker thy name is zangoose, I really don't see that this needs much explanation so I'll just post some calcs.

252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 169-201 (31.6 - 37.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery. This is the only thing that can truly switch into zangoose off the top of my head.
252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 313-369 (72.4 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 175-207 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 156-184 (48.4 - 57.1%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO
Will post more explanation if needed
Tagging Kit Kasai who gets rekt by it
 
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The Eevee General , I am only putting Bidoof in that rank and putting its sprite there because it is Bidoof Rank, and so its namesake needs to be ranked their. That is the only one I am putting there for now.

warriorman222 Thank you so very much, I couldnt find the party sprites

bestoise97 and megacrazyhand I think Durant may even warrant A-, so I will test it a little more. The only problem with it is that Hustle miss sucks

a__man I won't give feedback for them all right now, but I agree with most of what you are saying
 
Alright, lets talk about the nominations and changes.

First off, not going to put anything in Bidoof Rank (not even Bidoof) as that shouldnt be touched yet, if at all. Anyway, on to the changes

Alomomola will be the first mon to reach S-Rank. It is the best physical wall in the tier for most teams and has an amazing HP stat alongside good defense. It also serves as a Wish Passer, and can easily afford to give a Wish to a teamate instead of itself due to Regenerator giving it more HP every time it switches.

Durant is going to A-. It is incredibly powerful, has great speed, and can wipe away accuracy issues from Hustle with Hone Claws. After a Hone Claws boost, almost the entire tier is 2HKOed. Misses and frailty can still be an issue though.

Cressilia moved to A. It can function as an incredible wall, walling most offensive threats and some wallbreakers. It also can run a Calm Mind attacker set, or use moves like Thunder Wave to cripple opponents. Finally, it has access to Lunar Dance which gives one of your pokemon a new chance to do what they must.

Tornadus is now C Rank. It doesnt have enough power and its main STAB has shaky accuracy, but works well with rain teams.

Suicune is B+. It has great defensive typing and is hard to counter once set-up, but can be defeated by strong physical attackers since it has to rely upon Rest for recovery and Sleep Talk doesn't always work the way you want it to.

Kyurem-Black moved down to B+, as it faces heavy competition from Kyurem and is pretty slow in this meta. It is still a great wallbreaker with 170 Attack and coverage that is threatening.

Thunderus is also B+. It is simply outclassed offensively and is too slow to keep up with other sweepers (Prankster Thunder Wave still amazing).

Spiritomb was added to B-. It can help stall teams out as a check (maybe counter) to Shedinja and a spinblocker. Its main role though is to Pursuit trap threats like Gothitelle. Access to Will-O-Wisp nevers hurts either
 
Nominating Regirock for A and Avalugg for B:

Regirock: Just a beast with resttalk set as it can wall many mons, heal with rest, and sweep with stone edge, as even resisted hits at a few boosts will be sure to leave a big heaping mark on the opponents mon. It's also like a rock-type CroCune only with more bulk and nothing immune to it. I've used this set well:
Regirock @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Curse
- Stone Edge
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Curse gives it its only form of an attack boost, while also raising its defense, letting it take a plethora of hits, such as a drain punch from a choice band gallade:
252+ Atk Choice Band Gallade Drain Punch vs. +2 252 HP / 176+ Def Regirock: 90-108 (22.8 - 27.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 80 Atk Regirock Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 221-260 (61.3 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Avalugg: While a tad less bulky than Regirock, this one can rapid spin, while also tanking and yolo mirror coating against predicted special hits. Here's my set that i like:
Avalugg @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Mirror Coat
- Recover
- Toxic
- Rapid Spin
First, there's mirror coat. Because of its needy special bulk, it simply just uses mirror coat on a predicted special attack, using sturdy as a fallback, and almost always ohkoing that mon. If you get an extra free turn, you can Recover and YoloCoat again. Toxic helps wear down walls and sweepers who dare stand in its way. Rapid Spin clears entry hazards from your side, giving another teammate an easier time.
 
CrazyGuy108 I agree with Avalugg for B Rank. It has a lot of utility and almost nothing breaks through on the physical side, however Ice-Type is terrible defensively. As for Regirock, I don't think it deserves A Rank. It has an incredible defense stat, but doesn't hit hard without set-up, has no reliable recovery, and the Special Defense and HP aren't the best. I will put it in B- for now. I will make these changes and add some more pokemon tommorrow
 
Making two nominations for one giant threats:

Thundurus–Therian for B+/A-

Yes, it doesn't have the Prankster T-Wave that we all know and love... but talk a good look at its stats. 84/75/85 is a little higher than its normal version, and 106 speed is a nice speed tier. But most importantly, look at that 150 Special Attack Stat. It's literally ridiculous. And when you realize it has access to boosting moves, it's essentially the strongest special cleaner (with Agility) or wall breaker (with NP and Taunt) in Tier Shift. And then you have Specs and Scarf that have powerful Volt Switches.

+2 252 SpA Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 296-350 (46.1 - 54.5%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aromatisse: 237-280 (55.6 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 340-400 (84.1 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zangoose: 368-434 (116 - 136.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Durant: 255-300 (91.7 - 107.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

The only thing you have to worry about is deciding between HP Ice (Specially Defensive Gligar, Hippowdon and other ground Types) vs. HP Flying (Shedinja, Mega-Venusaur, Virizion and assault vest fighting types).

It also has a nice typing, being immune to Electric and Ground while resisting Grass, Bug, Steel, Flying and Fighting. This makes it amazing for Rain Teams (It takes everything that Kabutops fears and spams Thunder everywhere). Ice and Rock are annoying but can be avoided pretty easily (either by destroying them first or switching out to a Steel Type).

It's not higher than A- because of SR, loss of Prankster T-Wave and Cresselia (when you're not in a Rain Team).
 
So now that A+ is empty, I volunteer moving Cresselia up to A+ rank. It can do a variety of things, such as statusing, setting up dual screens and being an incredibly effective bulky attacker from the special side. On top of that when you feel its done its job you can lunar dance into another threat either to wall, clean up or sweep your opponents team. Its late so I'm not looking to do any in depth analysis of Cresselia but I think we all know how great she is.
 
Alright, sorry that the update came a little late. It is here now though. This thread doesn't have a lot of focused discussion about nominations, so I would like to have a few discussion points.
-How viable are the various styles of weather? Which ones are most effective and which pokemon become more viable because of weather?
-Which form of Rotom is best? The ones that were considered better now have worse stats than the others. Does this affect which is the best?
-Which Mega Evolutions should be used? Most are in OU but are they still better than the ones in NU?

Also calling in w0rd , Knight of Cydonia , and PokemonMasterDebater to see what they think of the rankings so far. I would also like to hear their additions to the thread

Edit: Had some problems and had to call in Stellar to revert this to a previous version. Therefore, all changes are gone. I will make them tomorrow
 
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Mew for A rank

Thanks to its wide movepool and base 105 stats all round Mew can perform a wide variety of roles very well.
The classic stallbreaker set works extremely well in this meta - beating most of the top defensive pokemon with ease and crippling offensive teams with burns. Mew is also an excellent team supporter with access to moves such as Light Screen, Reflect, Stealth Rocks, Defog, and Heal Bell. Offensive sets can work pretty well thanks to its good speed tier and access to boosting moves such as Nasty Plot and Swords Dance.


Gardevoir-Mega for A- rank

Despite not getting any stat boosts this gen, Gardevoir remains a big threat thanks to its mega evolution. With the prevalence of Stall teams and all the buffed defensive pokemon, stallbreakers are good to have and Mega Gardevoir is one of the best. Both the Calm Mind and Taunt sets are very effective. Trace is also an excellent ability before mega evolving.
 

Knight of Cydonia

I COULD BE BANNED!
Alright I'll go through the pokemon I've used. Will be short descriptions since there are a lot.

Very good specs user, can ohko most offensive pokemon that don't resist boom burst and destroys most stall if you can trap chansey (hint gothitelle). Although slower and slightly less powerful than Chatot it is not stealth rock weak and can actually take an attack meaning it needs less support. Better coverage options as well in fire blast/ focus blast. B+

Ninetales actually has decent stats now and with a heat rock can actually be used on a sun team. Obviously not as good as rain but I'm sure sun has potential. C+

Tried using on a sun team and does not disappoint if you can keep sun up. 115 sp atk with solarbeam weather ball and sludge bomb, as well as potential boosting with growth and the only safe switch ins are heatran and the pink blobs. C+

I used a rest talk set with superpower to some success, very average before any boosts though so B-

Surprisingly powerful and can annoy potential switch ins with chatter confusion for free subs. Lacks any sort of bulk though. C+

A pretty reasonable wall, stall breaker or rock setter. Suffers against some physical attackers. B

Kabutops is probably rain offense's main threat. Huge amounts of power and speed with the only limitation being politoeds support and 7 turns of rain max. A

Not as threatening as Kabutops but still good in rain. Can ruin counters with a scald burn and recover somewhat with giga drain. B


Actually a very nice spiker just now, can annoy a lot of stuff with leech seed and spiky shield. B+

Provides defog and good physical walling for stall teams. Can set up Stealth rock or spikes. B+

Still threatening with dragon dance and the sp def wall is a decent choice for stall teams as well to switch in to stall breaker mew. A-


Fairly decent spinner, between scald toxic and acid spray its actually pretty troublesome to switch into. Lacks recovery however and poor physical defense. B-

Nice stealth rock setter with good physical bulk and filter to survive near any unboosted physical attack. Definition of a tank really as it can hit back hard as well. B

Still a good wall for stall teams or a tank with max sp atk for balanced teams. A-

Solid unaware user, cm booster, rock setter, heal bell and wish passer depending on what you need. Versatile and good typing. Can find itself lacking bulk in this more powerful meta however. A-

Decent specs user thanks to volt switch, cm is alright as well. B

Great cm user that is hard to stop without trick, taunt, or very powerful attackers. Even water absorb etc can be stalled out thanks to rest and pressure. A-

Thats most of what I have used extensively which isn't ranked yet. Forgive the short descriptions, if you don't agree with anything feel free to ask for a better description ( i can probably drag up replays as well), also a lot of the ranks were hard to decide since comparing pokemon across such a large pool of viable pokemon is difficult. If I were you insanelegend I would rank as much as possible by yourself without bothering to give reasons, and then let people suggest changes. This is what happens in the other viability threads and speeds things up greatly. I know this will be harder than other tiers but give it a bash and I'm sure anything that is off will get picked up by someone.
 
w0rd , its funny you say that cause I had Mew at A Rank before the OP got all wonky. I think Mew may actually have messed it up. Definitely A. Mega-Gard is a little worse however. It suffers against Cressilia, and can become set-up fodder for Calm Mind variants. It can't even 2HKO Defensive Cress when Gard has an offensive nature. It is also slower than offensive sweepers in Tier Shift, so base 100 Speed simply no longer cuts it. I will give it A- for now though as it has useful support moves. Just only use it as a wall-breaker, as it is otherwise outclassed and takes up your mega slot.

232+ SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 186-219 (40 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
232+ SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 186-219 (40 - 47.1%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Ok fine, you can 2HKO with Stealth Rocks. Have fun with those max rolls.

Knight of Cydonia , every time you mention Gothitelle a child cries. I agree with Venusaur, even though it already it already faces heavy competition with Amoongus without Amoongus getting a boost. Why is it still A- Rank then? Matchups. Rain teams have a much easier time defeating Amoongus then a Mega-Venusaur who isn't weak to ice and packs a lot more special attack. It can also help beat Crocune early on with Leech Seed and Giga Drain. So A- Rank. I was going to move down, but still has many advantages over Amoongus. I do however refuse to make Kabutops A. It is too slow outside of rain, has a typing with weaknesses to Earthquake, Mach Punch, and a X4 weakness to Grass, and is simply too reliant on the support of Politoed to be effective. B+ seems good. I really don't know about Clefable. I will put it A-, because it is very versatile and has good typing and abilities. However, it doesn't like to use a moveslot on SR, is outclassed as a CM booster (see CroCune and Cressilia), is outclassed by Aromatisse as a clergic (Aromatisse is unaffected by Taunt and has better stats). Its real failure is in its stats however. No base stat over 100 in Tier Shift is incredibly medicore. It is versatile and can be unexspected so A- for now, but don't be suprised if it drops (except in the OU rankings where people are hyping it for S). And Ninetales gets B-. Weather is simply too good in this meta (Politoed is also A).

A special thanks to Stellar for saving this thread from death by user error. Much appreciated

If anyone disagrees with any of my decisions, please speak up and back up your opinion with evidence. I want you to argue and prove me wrong, as long as it is done respectfully.
 
I dunno what it would rank (I still haven't fought any really good players) but Primeape is nasty. Outspeeds tons of things since it's now base speed 110, hits off 120 Attack, has access to Defiant (Or Vital Spirit if you're scared of Spore or Anger Point if lols), an enormous movepool (I'm running Close Combat, Acrobatics, Ice Punch, and U-turn, and it's got tons of other good options), and while it's not the toughest thing in the world it's now 80/75/85 for HP/Defense/Special Defense which isn't so 'dies when you look funny at it'.
 
The problem with Primeape is that it is usually outclassed by Sawk. Sawk has 140 attack, a slightly lower speed, but better bulk. It also has Sturdy and Mold Breaker, two incredible abilities which are very useful. Its movepool also has everything it needs, and Choice Band Sawk can 2HKO almost everything bar physically defensive Cressilia and Granbull (which has no reliable recovery
 
Sawk is going to be outrun by a lot of things that Primeape isn't, including the Mew-alikes. Not saying Sawk isn't overall better, but 110 base speed is excellent for pulling ahead of the likes of Garchomp and other classic OU threats, and it can U-turn out of tons of problem Pokemon. Plus Defiant punishes Sticky Web, Intimidate, etc. (Though how widespread Intimidate is going to be in this meta is important to how relevant that is)
 
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