Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)

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Srn

Water (Spirytus - 96%)
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for A+
With no actual safe switch-ins, this thing is pretty ridiculous. Non-Victini stall auto-loses to it, balance and bulky offense struggle greatly against it, and it does fairly decently against offense.
It's also really hilarious that it can trace Excadrill's Sand Rush pre-mega-evo, outspeed if Timid, and cleanly OHKO with Focus Blast.
for B-
It beats Sand Offense, which is currently the most common playstyle, and destroys stall with only a Life Orb. While it has very limited switch-in opportunities (VoltTurn support is really great for it), it can force out mons like Landorus, Excadrill, Terrakion, Heatran, Tyranitar, Mamoswine and more, and literally nothing can take a hit from it (Azumarill is beaten if it switches in with SR) except for the really rare Chesnaught.

Other stuff I agree with/care about
->A+
->A-
->A-
->B+
->B
->A- (rain offense is a really unprepared for and underappreciated playstyle)
I agree with crawdaunt, tho I personally wouldn't use any set other than LO 4 attacks or Sash SD.
But you're way overhyping mega gardevoir here. Its forced to use focus blast 80% of the time against stall to actually nail the steel types for decent damage, and outside of victini stall can still use some weird options like doublade, mega zor, and jirachi to take on mega garde. Hell even sp. def cress can take on non CM mega garde; its really not as scary as you say :/
The most it really does against a well played offense is switch into latios or keldeo/greninja after a kill and nail the steel with a focus blast or hyper voice for a kill in general; not much.

Charizard (Mega-X) S > A+ I talked about this before but the 4x sr weak is so significant, and it is checked to easily when u consider that

Keldeo S> A+ Every team has this checked, and its just too predictable. It also has trouble consistently breaking its checks live venue, latis, azu, it potentially can but it has to predict very strongly and have a certain move set


Excadrill A+ > S It needs sand support, but ttar (and hippo kind of ) are good mons in themselves. Meanwhile, exca is a ridiculous revenge killer, fucks every type of offense, and even can spin which is awesome too.

Garchomp A+ > A The lead set is still solid but not as good as it was, and the scarf set is mostly outclassed by lando t. Pure Sd sets are hard to justify using when there are better and more efficient wall breakers, and bulky sets are just meh as always

Mega Gyarados Stays A+, it is such a monster vs every team without a ferro, and while many teams have ferro it is easy to lure and weaken. It is so bulky and can set up on so much of the meta

Heatran A+ > A Its defensive niches keep being whittled, and now most of the things it checks can bypass it, e.g. eq patios. Nearly all of A+ and s beats it as well.

Latias A+ > A This thing was dropped to A a while back for being inferior patios, healing wish is cool but i don’t rle see what changed

Bisharp A> A + Yeah there isn’t Aegislash, but bisharp was always a shit aegis check anyways. Its prio is strong af, the sd set is good again, and it pursuits shit for Keld n zard n lando or whatever

Ferro A> A+ LOL HOW IS THIS NOT A+. But for real its on so many teams fucks with so many mons and is just so good on balance

Hippo A> A- Just so passive and meh, never rle a threat to any play style

Lando T A>A+ The scarf set is so good at getting momentum and beating other offense, and the defensive set is a solid pivot and the best way to deal with a hera, via u uturn

Manaphy A- > B+/B Just weak n slow etc, doesn’t threat stall, too slow for offense, whats the point

Skarmory A- > B+ Probably personal bias here, but its so weak and bad at punishing switches, also doesn’t even wall the top physical threats of the meta like hera and medi

Mega Aerodactyl B > B+ The offensive set does wonders vs offense and checks bird spam (is bird spam still a threat? but w/e) the taunt roost st i have more experience with and rapes most stall while still being effective vs offense. Mawile being gone just makes it better

Raikus B > B+ Just cuz the cm volt switch set is so good vs every offensee that isn’t sand (I could see keeping it B cuz its so fucked by sand offense)


Then Just a couple of things I’ve been using that i like…

Froslass D> C+ Its good at getting spikes and keeping them by taunting/threatening defoggers, and can d-bond shit. Speed tying with latis sucks tho

Shaymin for C Its kinda bad but it is a sick lando check meld check azu check and just lives for a long time. Leech seed protect is the set I’m referring to although 3 ark healing wish can also be nice

Jirachi C> B FUCKIN LOOK AT THIS ONE cuz this one is more legit jirach is so good in this meta, it fucks with hard amazingly, the best cm clef counter there is, fucks every type of lati, can check hera, beats venue, etc. It is annoying how it gives completely free switches to some shit but it answers so many hard to answer mons
Gonna post here what I disagree with: Excadrill, Raikou, Skarm, Bisharp.

Excadrill needs way too much support to be threatening at all cuz mold breaker sucks and even then every team nowadays have rotom-w or lando-t and it makes cleaning with excadrill real friggin difficult. Its pretty much the best revenge killer in the tier tho so keep it at A+.

Raikou like you said sand offense too prevalent to be good lol, exca is a free switch-in 100% of the time. Atleast mega man has flamethrower to not totally be exca bait.

Skarm is still a top tier defensive wall and just cuz some strong fighting types think they're the shit doesnt' mean that skarm doesnt stop 70% of the physical meta, and some big threats like mega gyara, mega tar, dnite, excadrill, pinsir (run shed shell :>) etc.

Bisharp is just inferior to scarf tar as a pursuit trapper as hp fighting is kinda rare and bisharp still has to play 50/50s with sucker or pursuit if it switches into any non-stab move lol. SD is kinda threatening but its still too ez to check, keep it at A.
 
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She doesn't have room to run it however, there are things she would rather run and with it she has 4mss reflect type/draco meteor/psyshock/surf/healing wish/defog/roost/t-bolt/. She has too many things that she would rather run where starmie just needs spin/reflect type/ hydro/bolt/beam
Psyshock? Recover? Scald? Heck Starmie would even use HP Fire if it had a moveslot for it.
 
Just my quick 2 cents on Skarm. I don't think it should drop, ironically, but I really think Skarm has gotten worse lately. Its primary purpose for stall teams is countering Pinsir because every stall team needs a counter for it, but Pinsir is the sweeper that is most commonly paired with a trapper like Magnezone or Goth (especially the former) which means it either fails to keep your team safe from one of the biggest threats to stall teams in general, or to be safe you have to run a shitty item (Shed Shell) which greatly reduces its effectiveness against everything else and even that doesn't always work because Knock Off is also everywhere and Skarm is expected to be able to handle things like Bisharp who commonly use the move. As others have said, Skarm also can't handle any of the rapidly increasing in popularity big wall/stall breakers in the tier like Mega Heracross, Gardevoir and Medicham and because of that, demand for Skarm isn't as high as it used to be.

Mega Aero, Zapdos or even Doublade (who can't be trapped and counters many more high-profile threats) give Skarm competition now, and Skarm as I've found whenever I've used it lately, just has really... I dunno, shitty moves. Brave Bird is really weak and the recoil is horrible because using it against Pinsir after you've switched in on a Swords Dance actually lets Pinsir 2HKO you while BB can't OHKO back, and Counter can be unreliable and pretty much has to be paired with Taunt in order to be effective, at which point you have a pretty severe case of 4MSS since you've got Counter, Taunt and Roost, which leaves only 1 slot for something else, normally Defog, which just makes you really, really passive. If you choose Whirlwind instead, you're only delaying the problem and not actually dealing with it, you're taking >50% from a +2 CC in order to phaze and if something that forces out your Skarm gets dragged in, you're in deep sludge since next time Pinsir comes in you'll be getting KO'd. So yeah, its main problems are that it has no real good way to deal damage hence being unreliable, being set-up bait for any special attacker and letting them switch in for free which can be a big momentum burner, and probably more that I cbf listing right now.

I think it deserves to remain in A- though because it does have a very good defensive typing which lets it do well against things like the omnipresent Excadrill (SD versions can be annoying sometimes though) and some good support options like access to 2 hazards and defog, and is still a good general purpose wall in its own right.

About Hippo, I think the drop has been in the pipeline for a while now because if we want to be realistic, sand offense is exactly that; it's an offensive playstyle and Hippo simply doesn't contribute as much, offensively, as what T-Tar does and thus it's no surprise that probably >90% of sand teams are using T-Tar as their inducer. It has no worthwile use on stall or other playstyles really, because it's outclassed by other things like Quagsire and it's just really difficult to justify a slot for it. It's also a bit inaccurate, in my opinion, to have it ranked higher than things like Chansey, who aren't outclassed and perform their role very well. Hippo for A-/B+.
 
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Been wanting to do this for a while, finally had the time to do this.

I'm going to nominate Tyranitar to A+/S because I strongly feel it should be there.


Tyranitar is A+/S because

It's responsible for one of the most common playstyles in OU and that is Sand Offense:
Tyranitar consistently tops the usage lists both in ladder and tournaments and for good reason.

The amount of support it provides is incredible:

Not only does it bring sandstorm to the table but it also has STAB Pursuit which is a godsend to Tyranitar as it goes like bread and butter with it's high 134 base attack stat. Tyranitar can deal huge damage or even OHKO Pokemon like Latios, Latias, Mega Manetric, Talonflame, Starmie, Raikou, Zapdos, Slowbro, Mew with it's CB or Scarf set. Pursuit is also really useful when you want to take out something at low health for example a Thundurus, Dragonite, Zard Y etc. It can also Pursuit stuff locked into something that doesn't do much to it like a CB Dragonite locked into Extremespeed or a Staraptor locked into Brave Bird.

Tyranitar prevents Pokemon like Cresselia and Mega Venusaur from healing reliably:

It's one of the reasons why Mega Venusaur is not so effective anymore and why Cresselia is not very viable.

Tyranitar checks huge threats very nicely:

It checks flying spam while being also a nice check to Zard X, Charizard Y and bunch of other threats.

Not only does it kill or deal huge damage to all those Pokemon with Pursuit that I mentioned but at the same time it supports Pokemon like Charizard-Y and Keldeo making their jobs a lot easier.

Tyranitar has many viable sets:
Tyranitar can be physically defensive, Scarf, Band, AV, SR though I'll admit Scarf is it's best set in the current meta but it the other sets are still very effective.

Tyranitar fits the S-rank criteria perfectly:

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.
I'm also going to counter stuff people like alexwolf have said in defense of dropping Tyranitar:

It wants Smooth Rock

No it doesn't 8 turns of sand is nice and all but even 4-5 turns is more than enough for Excadrill to do it's job.

If you use Scarf Tyranitar you need another scarfer.

No you don't. This isn't 5th gen. Pokemon like Talonflame and Excadrill are already amazing revenge killers so no you don't need another scarfer.

CrashinBoomBang:
the problem is that all the "good" sets don't do the thing it's supposed to do most of the time: provide sand support.
Um what? I know you're a good battler but that's just a ridiculous claim that makes no sense what so ever..
 
I feel everyone here is overstating suicunes abilities just a bit. It's really not that amazing and doesnt require a dedicated counter or you get swept. Honestly its not hard to prevent it getting to +2 ever and if you let it get there you honestly deserve to be swept. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of CroCune and think he's pretty good but everyone on here is really exaggerating how good he actually is, Keep at B+.

Now regarding Aero-M, this guy is p good atm. good offensive birdspam check that outspeeds most of the meta and has access to reliable recovery. I've used this guy several times and the only times ive been let down is in Rok Slide/Stone Edge missing and some power issues vs bulky opponents due to a low Atk. and low basepower moves (seriously GameFreak? Aerial Ace is the best you had). However this guy is great for luring Venusaur and Ferro and chipping away their health for mons like BD Azu to sweep. I'd love to see him in B+.

Lando-T is another mon that I feel needs to rise. This guy is an amazing glue mon who has several great sets. Scarf Lando is an aamzing momentum grabber who can check +1 DD Sweepers before they get out of hand, as well as clean late game pretty well. The defensive set also deserves mention. Despite relying on his ability a little too much, Defensive Lando-T can tank some of the most powerful hits, even +0 MegaDos Waterfall/Ice Fang and CharX Outrage fail to OHKO (Thats if they DD on the switch, when paired with Scarf rotom W MegaDos often EQ's, giving a free Volt Switch + we). A+ pls

Now alexwolf I know you said you wouldnt take into account any new nominations, but one mon that I feel has been criminally underappreciated is Regular Gyarados. Sub DD set is amazing at weakening/beating mons like Venusaur and Ferrothorn, who both lose should Gyarados have a Sub up. It has several significant advantages such as being able to bluff the Mega depending on the team and is able to hold an item, unlike most DDers in the tier. I have never once been let down by its prowess, please consider it and move it to A.

As for Lucario, I have built several teams that, while not built around him, have used his nice ability and Extremespeed to punch holes mid game or sweep late game. It needs very little support to do it's job and the only move that it has issues fitting in is Iron Tail or Ice Punch, with each hitting a different target. The fact that it's able to beat both Talonflame and Thund-I, the end all be all of sweep stoppers thanks to extremespeed, as well as its ability to OHKO Skarm at +2 after SR makes it a solid choice for a team. If anything, I could see it moving up but for now, keep at B

I also want to talk about Victini and Mew. Victini was often only thought of because of its amazing STAB V-Create, however it also occupies a neat defensive niche that deals with M-Medi and M-Garde really well, resisting both of their STABs + Coverage and either crippling with Will-o or fucking shit up with V-Create which, even if not fully invested, still fucks shit up. It also functions as a pretty good stallbreaker thanks to taunt + Wisp + V-Create (not that it really matters, considering stall is getting worse every ban). Bump to B+

Mew is also getting more and more recognised as a threatening mon since the Aegi Ban. It fucks stall hard up the ass and can serve as a decent counter to M-Medi and heaps of physical attackers thanks to its HUGE FUCKING movepool. It also can be a semi decent defogger however if you go that route you suffer from extreme 4mss. Its really good at harrassing opposing teams but its bulk can be disappointing at times. Overall I dont really know, ive had success with it but nothing about it screams A+ to me. keep at A

Already talked about Ferrothorn in the last thread. Counters a lot of shit, can take even 4x SE hits if need be and has a very customisable support movepool. It does lose to every single Wallbreaker Mega but I still feel its an A+ mon. Happy if it moves to A+ but its very close

I also disagree with the dropping of MegaDos. This guy is the most consistant DDer right now. Beats a lot of shit pre-mega. Can change typing drastically whenever it wants and has pretty good power. On the subject of not beating stall, Taunt exists and after testing with it, I prefer the guarantee setup on status and whirlwind users instead of hitting Dragonite and doing a bit more to Lati@s, its much easier to weaken a few mons with offensive support than fit a dedicated Stallbreaker. Keep at A+
 

alexwolf

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Flamer said:
Now alexwolf I know you said you wouldnt take into account any new nominations, but one mon that I feel has been criminally underappreciated is Regular Gyarados. Sub DD set is amazing at weakening/beating mons like Venusaur and Ferrothorn, who both lose should Gyarados have a Sub up. It has several significant advantages such as being able to bluff the Mega depending on the team and is able to hold an item, unlike most DDers in the tier. I have never once been let down by its prowess, please consider it and move it to A.
Nominating another high ranked Pokemon if you have already talked a bit about the Pokemon i highlighted is perfectly ok, i am not Hitler. As long as the Pokemon i mentioned are discussed by you guys, i am happy, and please no low rank noms even if your post is good otherwise, they make the thread really shitty really fast.
 
Mega Garchomp should stay B+ or hell, even rise to A-. This thing is almost as dangerous as Kyurem-B, and in the sand, even bulky fairy-types such as Clefable can fall to it, thanks to Sand Force and an incredible base 170 attack. Also, unlike Kyurem-B, it gets access to Fire Blast and can threaten Ferrothorn very easily. It's not weak to SR, it's bulkier and has perfect coverage with Draco Meteor/Fire Blast/Stone Edge/Earthquake. Mega Garchomp should stay B+.

alexwolf EDIT:
Stay focused on the Pokemon i mentioned.
 
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Let me give my two cent on zard x ^^

S-class said:
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.
These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively: Charizard do this perfectly, it can run a bulky will-oh-wisp very effectively, and is therefore excellent on stall, this set though this set does arguably need some team support, I think it stands alone because it is able to beat so many pokemon 1v1 an you only really need teammates that can switch in when zard is about to take a earthquake etc. making charizard an excellent teammate for stall.

It can also run the bulky dragon dance set (or offensive dd bot those seems a bit similar) and with its great bulk, it can setup on a ton of stuff in the ou metagame. This variant can actually be smacked onto every single team, as it needs very little support, other than defog/spin obviously.

Then there is also the more customized sets that it can run effectively, such as having earthquake for heatran, thunder punch for azumarill etc. that makes it almost uncheckable. And before the argument of scarfers come, I will also mention that it can run a tailwind/sd set pretty effectively.

Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted:
the bulky wisp set can burn of the opponents physical sweepers, while still tanking special very well, it have a bad sr weakness, but after mega evolving it only have a x2 weakness, which is deal able.

The dragon dance sets find tons of opportunities to set up, and on many pokemon that would normally counter most dragon dancers, such as clefable sylveon and greninja. Also with flare blitz it can have a nuke attack that doesn't lock it on, something the other dragons would kill for.

Additionally I would like to mention how customize able, giving it the ability to smack its own checks.

Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits
to me, this seems to match perfectly on our beloved charizard.

Charizard stay in S
 
Agree with Hippowdon going down, it's not as good as Tyranitar as a sand setter on sand offense mainly because Tyranitar has Pursuit trapping abilities and offensive presence plus a lot viable sets and can bird spam with Scarf. Hippowdon can still be useful on balanced sand/stall though but even then it still faces competition from other physical walls like Landorus-T. Even A- might be too good as it's just a sitting duck because EQ and Slack Off are pretty much mandatory and EQ is so easy to take advantage of. Toxic and Rock Slide is nice but then it can't phase stuff so it has a case of 4MMS. Also with Aegislash gone idrk why you would use it and Gliscor is better as a SpDef wall anyways. Hippowdon for B+
TRC posted a very good post from CBB about this, Hippo is actually the better choice as a sand setter unless you realy need a pursuit trapper. Uninvested Ttars offensive presence isnt much better than Hippos but its much weaker defensively lacking solid recovery and having a worse typing. If you want a stop to Bird spam Hippo is also the better choice not giving a shit about talonflame and beeing a solid stop against Pinsir, and unlike Ttar he can consistently switch into both. It also stops lots of other things on both sides on the spectrum ranging from Thundurus to Excadrill.
 
I don't have strong feelings about most of the changes to discuss, except maybe the following:

Zard X: Stay in S. Zard-X is no longer 6-0'ing teams with DD because the meta has sped up and everyone has checks to it but it's been able to adapt to the times. It's still a great hole puncher because base 131 Atk + Tough Claws + strong STABs just makes it hit so hard even without boosts, so it can run Roost + 3 Attacks, and SD Tailwind is p nice against stall and offense. As for people citing SR, if anything, SR + Spikes was everywhere during the DeoSharp meta and iirc Zard X was still S-Rank. This mon still has great offensive and defensive typing, is the one dragon that isn't too scared of Ice Shard or Fairies (Azu can be a problem, but Azu can't safely switch into Flare Blitz) and has great STAB coverage with decent options for dealing with the things that stop it. It's the third best mon after Thund and Azu. S is fine.

Mega Tar: Been thinking about this hard. On one hand I was thinking it should not be in any way, shape or form be above regular Tar because at least regular Tar can hold Smooth Rock, and this isn't really a true argument because Exca can do his job decently given four or five turns. However, the problem is that it can't go switching in and out to keep sand up because as a DDer that's not what it does--it is a mon that likes to stay in. So, more realistically it's boosting, getting a kill or two and letting Exca sweep with whatever is left, more realistically 1-2 turns and that's not really enough. I really think Mega Tar is an animal, though, a stupidly bulky, stupidly strong DDer that is difficult to revenge outside Conk (glad that got bumped back up, I thought in the ExcaTar + Mew meta it would be better) and it feels so wrong for it to be anywhere below A+ but so many times you'd wish you had regular Tar that it's kind of a deal-breaker. If people here are adamant that regular Tar is an A mon, I'd say with a heavy heart that so is Mega.

Skarm: Stay in A-. Skarm shouldn't be in the B ranks at all. Skarm still stops many DDers and physical attackers, and while the rise of Zone has hurt him quite a bit, he still boasts brilliant typing and that massive Defense stat + reliable recovery. Still a premier physical wall in OU, and its ranking needs to reflect that.

Hippo: That having been said, Hippo may need to go down. Hippo is extremely passive, his great Attack stat wasted by his lack of coverage outside weak elemental fangs and his terrible Speed (Tar is slow but not Hippo slow, and Tar can be decent with Scarf/DD), and Tyranitar is just the better choice for sand offense. Not to mention it gets feasted on by the Gen VI Water army. Gliscor and Lando-T are better choices for defensive Ground-type. Hippo should be A- at the very most, possibly B+.

Raptor: I think others have already done a great job explaining this one. Such a great hole-puncher because Aegis is gone, so Flying/Fighting/Normal is great coverage, and Reckless makes it hit so hard. Got even better with Maw getting the boot. Scarf is its best set but Band ain't bad either. I dunno about putting it in B+ yet but B is definitely a reasonable proposition because it paves the way for a Talonflame/Pinsir/Hawlucha sweep.

Diancie: I honestly have no idea what this does in OU. It wants to go mixed because Dia Storm + Moonblast but 100/100 offenses and no recovery or reliable boosting just aren't cutting it. It's really bulky but gets worn down because no recovery, some common weaknesses like Ground and Water, and is slow af. Easy entry point for Excadrill because HP Fire off 100 SpA is kind of ass (this thing really wishes it had EQ or something). It's not even a good Zard X stop (which some people thought it would be) because +1 EQ destroys it with a little prior damage. It's outclassed by Carbink because Carbink is cuter. (To its credit, it can one-shot Keldeo with Moonblast, but Keldeo switches in on anything else and it's dead.) I wouldn't consider using this until the Mega comes out. D rank is fine for it.

Edit: Is it just me or is anyone else experiencing parts of their posts getting eaten? Like you click "Reply to Thread" and what comes out is the incarnation of your post fifteen minutes ago. Oh well...
 
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Charizard X completely fits the S-Rank. It can act difference roles and sets and it does well with any of them. DD + 3 attacks, DD + Roost, Roost + 3 attacks, SD + Tailwind, Roost Wisp are all incredibly good and it's good against both HO and offense. Also there is almost 0 switch ins for Charizard-X as Azumarill and Landorus-T which are probably the best checks around have no recovery move and can't switch on Charizard more than once, and Heatran which is another notable check get smashed by both EQ sets, Sword Dance one (Outrage does around 80% on the specially defensive one) and it has also no recovey move and it's a pokèmon easily to wear down tbh. It's true that its weak at Stealth Rock but thats why it's S-Rank and not in Uber tier TBH lol also as CBB already said Defog support isn't a big thing to deal with and you can fit a Defog user in almost every team. Keep it in S-Rank please

I also agree that Mega Alakazam should rise. It has a very very good statistics of both Speed and SAttack and Modest Psychic has some chance to OHKO Landorus from full, thats an example to help you to understand how strong it actually is. It's also much better in a metagame without Aegislash and Mawile obv, since it had to run Shadow ball for Aegislash (which could take an hit and OHKO back anyway) and since Mawile could revenge-kill it with Sucker Punch and it resisted its STAB. Now that both have gone, it has no longer a solid revenge-killer and it can run difference moves instead of Shadow Ball, for example Encore and Substitute are both cool support moves. It has also a cool ability in Trace, allowing to copy Landorus' Sheer Force and Greninja's Protean making it even stronger, especially against offensive teams where these mons usually belongs. However, Trace is cool even against Stall teams because copying Heatran's Flash Fire is rly huge.. it can also be a threat for stall themselves with Taunt if needed, so it is a good mon against both offense and Stall (of course it does its best against offense/ balanced but I mean that it isn't completely useless against Stall as well). B+ seems fine to me.

Giving me opinions about the other mons through the discuss will move on I guess
 
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Albacore

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Mew : A>A+ Covered this before, Mew is a lord who forces stall into endless switching more often than not, and a stall team full of burnt itemless mons is not at all hard to break, Regen core or not. Also pulls its weight vs all kinds of teams.

Garchomp : A+>A+ Though it's not quite as good as it used to be, it's still IMO the most reliable scarfer in the game, as well as a fantastic cleaner. It's also a great sash lead. Honestly, what pushes Garchomp into A+ in my eyes is its really solid bulk, combined with the clutch Rough Skin. I guess I could see it dropping though, since it doesn't really have quite as solid a niche as other A+ ranks

Mega-Tyranitar : A+>A I can see this happening, MTTar is obscenely bulky but also very prone to getting revenge killed due to its weakness to priority/most scarfers, and is just not that reliable.

Mega Gyarados : A+>A+ Although it doesn't sport thay much raw power, it's incredibly reliable and consistent, and even though it's kinda walled by 2 entire types which are becoming more and more common, once those are removed it can almost always get 1 or 2 DDs off and sweep. Very solid sweeper.

Mega-Heracross / Mega-Gardevoir / Mega-Medicham : A>A+ Grouping these three together because I feel like they are pretty much on the same level. MGardevoir is the most reliable one, 6-0ing most stalls by the skin of its teeth. MMedi is the one with the most immediate power, hitting even resists very hard (though I disagree that HJK is more spammable than Hyper Voice) MHera is my personal favoirite of the three, since its bulk gives it utility vs Offense (particularly Sand) and it basically anihilates Stall at +2. In any case, all 3 are amazing wallbreakers who can easily come in on anything defensive and threaten the entire rest of the team, and aren't entirely useless vs offense. They deserve A+ IMO.

Mega-Venusaur : A+>A+ Covered this too, MVenu just beats too many huge threats to drop.

Ferro : A>A+ Just walls a ton of stuff. Lacks recovery but doesn't really need it since Ferro is the king of passive recovery. Deals with Sand offense and bulky waters and is therefore stellar in this meta. Easy A+.

Suicune : B+>A- Literally 6-0s a lot of teams that aren't prepared for it. Great bulky boosting wincon, walls a ton of things, and Scald is obviously the most annoying thing in existence.

Scizor : B+>B Is there any real reason to use this over its mega? I mean, the band set is okay, but I'd rather use Lando-T so I can actually switch into stuff. Any other set is just not bulky enough to work even if you don't have a free mega slot.

Manaphy : A->A- Tail Glow 3 attacks is pretty bad but should probably not drop on the basis that the CM RestDance set is beyond annoying and basically CroCune on stereoids (but with slightly less bulk).

Mega-Alakazam : B>B+ Absolute no-brainer, heck, could possibly move to A- even. Great revenge killer that outspeeds the meta and also kinda stallbreaks, checks weather offense and obviosly tracing Protean or Sheer Force is the best thing ever. This thing's biggest flaw is that even stallmons 2HKO it lol, but that doesn't matter too much when you outspeed and kill everything anyway.

Starmie : B>B+ Already brought this up, Excadrill may be the best Pokemon with acess to Rapid Spin but Starmie is the best at actually spinning.

Magnezone : B>B+ Annoying mon... Takes care of quite a few things and isn't deadweight outside of beating what it's meant to beat *cough*Gothitelle*cough*. Also enables Dragmage, which is really good atm, to exist. Specifically, traps Ferro who can be a massive pain to a lot of teams.

Mega-Garchomp : B+>B I'm sorry, but outside of sand, I personally see little to no reason to use this over MHera, who destroys Stall more easily, and serves more use vs offense too.
 
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Tyranitar stays in A rank + conclusion reached.

CBB's post on this is easily the best argument and it has very few flaws. The other roles not being able to give sand support makes perfect sense, every set bar it's smooth rock dedicated sand set that doesn't even do much can't give enough turns for sand or can't switch in on a lot of things as well. I don't need to argue for this, CBB's post is good enough.

Why conclusion reached? People like Pikachuu still try to bump it up (S Rank? REALLY?!) even though it stayed in A with less people arguing, which suggests they have the better argument. Putting it in conclusion reached would end this mess :]
 
Small issue, if Sand is on the rise (and impacting mons who rely on weather dependent healing moves), why are Tyranitar, Mega Tyranitar, Hippo and Mega Garchomp on the drop list? Wouldn't that indicate a downturn in Sand offense instead of an upturn? Just pointing it out because every third post seems to mention the "rise in Sand," and we are trying to drop both setters of Sand and the primary Sand wallbreaker.
 
Hippowdon because of the reasons Jirachee explained in his post, really don't want to repeat them. Also you might want to read CBB's post about Tyranitar as well.

About Mega Tyranitar otherwise, it's still a great mon because of its good all around statistics (bar Speed, but it has DD) but the usage increase of things like Gardevoir, Heracross, Medicham and Terrakion is really bad for it. Also you can't really pair it with Excadrill because of you will just have 5 turns of sand as Dice pointed out before which is really weird, therefore you will often go with regular Tyranitar with Smooth Rock + Excadrill + another mega core instead of using Mega Tyranitar + Excadrill (which is quite usable though, but Excadrill rly needs as many turns of sand as possible and that explain why it's often paired with regular tyranitar instead of mega ttar)

Also, Mega Garchomp needs the support of tyranitar / hippowdon as well and while it's rly good against stall teams, it isn't very helpful against offense. Things like Mega Gardevoir and Heracross can beat stall as well, but they need less support and they are better against offensive teams, thats why it's outclasses by these things and therefore it deserves a drop
 
Mew for A+ is fucking crazy, only shitty stall teams lose to it, shit like gliscor zard x heatran and just burning it with scald cripples it too badly, yeah it is annoying to stall but i find that a fast burn is way more crippling to offense, especially combined with that annoying typing with few common weaknesses. With that said, its lack of versatility and ability to be fucked with i.e. sub mega gyara completely wrecking it, giving free switches to zards, and being incredibly susceptible to status


TTar for S is completely crazy, and A+ is kind of reasonable, but also probably wrong. CBB put it really well, the good sets, which are basically only scarf, and i guess kind of sash? (besides mega dd) don't give sand for a long enough time imo, while support sand rock sets do give support but kind of lose to most of the meta, and even worse are generally setup bait for a lot of shit, unless u are brazilian/mexican af and run twave
 

Jirachee

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It wants Smooth Rock

No it doesn't 8 turns of sand is nice and all but even 4-5 turns is more than enough for Excadrill to do it's job.
I think you overestimate Excadrill a bit here. Excadrill is a nice sweeper but you have to realize that with only 4 turns of extra Speed (that's considering Tyranitar instantly switches out to Excadrill after coming in), it becomes very prone to being stalled out of its Sand. Excadrill's main STAB attacks are Earthquake and Iron Head which makes this possible. Earthquake is strong and has great typing but pretty much every team has a Ground immunity which makes it waste a Sand turn; considering it's the most powerful one, it's also the one Excadrill is most probably going to use. Iron Head has no immunity, but Steel is a type that is resisted by many common types. Most teams will carry both a Water and a Steel type, which both resist it. That's not mentioning Tyranitar and Excadrill share many common weaknesses (Water, Fighting, etc.) which makes it hard sometimes to take full advantage of those Sand turns without saccing Tyranitar. When you add Smooth Rock, you give Excadrill a lot more Sand Rush time which means it can wear down the stuff that switch into Iron Head more easily and have a much, much easier sweep. So unless you use Excadrill mostly as a revenge killer, you should probably use Smooth Rock Tyranitar as your Sand setter, otherwise you won't be able to take full advantage of its offensive capabilities.
 

horyzhnz

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moving on to some other stuff regarding alexwolf's discussion topics:


imo, M-Gyarados is fine at A+. it's versatile; being able to run either an offensive or a defensive set and performing both roles splendidly, and it's actually useful before mega evolving and it's even possible to bluff; meaning it can act as a check to threats such as Excadrill and Azumarill and get free switches into Ground-type moves, then mega evolve and sweep once checks have been removed. this thing can be an absolute nightmare for all types of teams; HO gets demolished if it gets up a ddance or two, outspeeding most unboosted staples like Greninja and having enough bulk to take a CB Talonflame's Brave Bird, while stall teams are turned into setup fodder if Taunt is run, preventing an otherwise fantastic check in Skarmory from using Whirlwind and Roost, and generally dismantling most other defensive cores with ease; Mold Breaker enables M-Gyarados to beat Unaware Clefable + Quagsire, Rotom-W, and M-Venusaur. the only real downsides I can see are its mediocre Speed without a ddance, its new typing gives it extra weaknesses to Fairy, Fighting, Bug, and leaves it vulnerable to Ground-type moves, its susceptibility to status, especially when setting up, and the existence of Ferrothorn. overall, still a bloody good win condition / late-game cleaner in its mega evolved form and a solid check to common threats when in its regular form; M-Gyarados definitely deserves its A+ rank.


M-Alakazam is pretty damn good in a metagame without Aegislash, freeing up a moveslot for HP Fire to whack Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory, or Taunt/Substitute to screw with stall teams. excellent Special Attack and Speed, nice ability in Trace can potentially turn the tables in a sticky situation (trace Sand Rush from Excadrill and revenge kill it, etc), and a pretty big movepool to boot. good on paper, but I've found the BP of his moves to be quite lackluster at times, being unable to OHKO some bulkier targets without a super effective coverage move. aside from that, some 4mss seems to be present, running a set with [ Psychic STAB / Focus Blast / Shadow Ball / coverage or utility ] always leaves you wishing you had that last moveslot. Scizor is a problem without HP Fire and you need to use the inaccurate Focus Blast for Ferrothorn, some things like SpD Hippowdon are annoying without Taunt, and with Sub you can avoid mind games with Sucker Punch users such as Bisharp. Then there are things like AV Azumarill that it can't deal with either way. imo, M-Alakazam is good enough for B+, but probably nowhere above that.
 
Reserving post for T-Tar to S because it actually perfectly fits the description. I'll post in a few hours. If you're gonna just delete that do me a favor and delete this instead....
 
Venusaur is straight of incredible for stall. The duel core of venutran + skarmbliss is honestly one of the hardest to break (I know chansey is used over blissey but skarmchan just sounds disgusting) Venusaur pretty much glues most stall team together, and therefore is almost impossible to leave out. It does get some competition from amoonguss, but with its lower defensive capabilities it will fall to one of the best offensive stall breakers in the game, keldeo, with its weakness to ice, amd overall lower deffence it's getting 2hkoed by icy wind or hp flying. On balanced teams venusaur acts as great glue and offensive pivot, but it meets larger competition from the more offensive megas. It's a little the same thing as for blastoise (though much better in general) that most people would rather build around a mega, than add it as support or pivot.

Mega venusaur down to A

I know it's not supposed to be discussed, but I'll throw in my cent on the excadrill to s topic. Excadrill is an excellent sweeper and spinner in the sand, or with a choice scarf, but both sets have some flaws that keep them down.

Sand rush
It is not very fast outside of sand, meaning that you will have to put either hippo or TTar into your team, with the smooth rock in most cases. This is a lot of team support, even if you would normally have a TTar or hippo, you will still have to sacrifice their lefties, scarf or band (latter two limited to ttar)

Mold breaker (scarfed)
With the scarf excadrill reach a fantastic speed tier, where it can outspeed neutral natured base 100, but as with all scarfers it cost a lot of momentum, often being forced out or used as complete setup forder. It's only niche over other scarfed ground types (chomp and lando) is rapid spin, and being locked into that is never good.

The other exca sets are often too slow to have much of a impact, and therefore I won't talk about them. Excadrill is also pretty frail, and often have to rely on KOing the opponent. When that's said, it IS a GREAT sand sweeper, and offensive scarf. Therefore excadrill fits perfectly in
A+ No lower.
 

Srn

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Just my quick 2 cents on Skarm. I don't think it should drop, ironically, but I really think Skarm has gotten worse lately. Its primary purpose for stall teams is countering Pinsir because every stall team needs a counter for it, but Pinsir is the sweeper that is most commonly paired with a trapper like Magnezone or Goth (especially the former) which means it either fails to keep your team safe from one of the biggest threats to stall teams in general, or to be safe you have to run a shitty item (Shed Shell) which greatly reduces its effectiveness against everything else and even that doesn't always work because Knock Off is also everywhere and Skarm is expected to be able to handle things like Bisharp who commonly use the move. As others have said, Skarm also can't handle any of the rapidly increasing in popularity big wall/stall breakers in the tier like Mega Heracross, Gardevoir and Medicham and because of that, demand for Skarm isn't as high as it used to be.

Mega Aero, Zapdos or even Doublade (who can't be trapped and counters many more high-profile threats) give Skarm competition now, and Skarm as I've found whenever I've used it lately, just has really... I dunno, shitty moves. Brave Bird is really weak and the recoil is horrible because using it against Pinsir after you've switched in on a Swords Dance actually lets Pinsir 2HKO you while BB can't OHKO back, and Counter can be unreliable and pretty much has to be paired with Taunt in order to be effective, at which point you have a pretty severe case of 4MSS since you've got Counter, Taunt and Roost, which leaves only 1 slot for something else, normally Defog, which just makes you really, really passive. If you choose Whirlwind instead, you're only delaying the problem and not actually dealing with it, you're taking >50% from a +2 CC in order to phaze and if something that forces out your Skarm gets dragged in, you're in deep sludge since next time Pinsir comes in you'll be getting KO'd. So yeah, its main problems are that it has no real good way to deal damage hence being unreliable, being set-up bait for any special attacker and letting them switch in for free which can be a big momentum burner, and probably more that I cbf listing right now.

I think it deserves to remain in A- though because it does have a very good defensive typing which lets it do well against things like the omnipresent Excadrill (SD versions can be annoying sometimes though) and some good support options like access to 2 hazards and defog, and is still a good general purpose wall in its own right.

About Hippo, I think the drop has been in the pipeline for a while now because if we want to be realistic, sand offense is exactly that; it's an offensive playstyle and Hippo simply doesn't contribute as much, offensively, as what T-Tar does and thus it's no surprise that probably >90% of sand teams are using T-Tar as their inducer. It has no worthwile use on stall or other playstyles really, because it's outclassed by other things like Quagsire and it's just really difficult to justify a slot for it. It's also a bit inaccurate, in my opinion, to have it ranked higher than things like Chansey, who aren't outclassed and perform their role very well. Hippo for A-/B+.
See the thing about skarmory is that no matter what it does its gonna be passive as all shit lol, and I don't think shed shell skarm is too bad considering that if the team CAN'T trap skarm, then they often just lose to it. Its still pretty much the best hazard remover for stall so definitely keep it A-.

I might as well address my favorite mon while i'm at it, Tyranitar. Its definitely A+ Material as you don't need smooth rock; honestly the only thing exca will really be doing is revenge killing in this meta and there's no need to even run smooth rock imho. The prevalence of rotom-w, lando-t, and every other bulky mon exca can't break through pretty much makes it impossible to clean with exca; exca is a revenge killer in the sand and that's all it should be used for, its a pretty subpar cleaner. So the "good sets" provide more than enough sand for exca to work with really.

But i'm talking about exca lets talk about tyranitar, more specifically its mega form: Seeing as I just adressed sand rush exca, I think its kind of obvious what the problem here is...
Its just too easy to revenge kill right now. Sand rush exca and scarf lando-t have seen gigantic leaps in popularity and mega ttar just will not sweep with all these mons that can take it down so easily. Sure scarf lando-t actually doesn't even kill with eq but any priority after that will do the job lol; the prevalence of mega gard, mega hera, and mega cham also make it tougher for mega tar to set up than usual, and offer more competition for a mega slot as well. Ultimately its really declined in how well it cleans with all the sand offense so I'd probably drop it to A.
 
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CrashinBoomBang

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I'm going to nominate Tyranitar to A+/S because I strongly feel it should be there.
Tyranitar is A+/S because
lol okay even if someone convinced me that Tyranitar is A+ (good luck), there's just no way it will ever touch S rank. regular tyranitar has way, way too many flaws and, quite frankly, people treat sand offense like it's the holy grail of XY OU when it's not. is it a good playstyle? of course it is, I'm pretty sure no one is going to deny it. Tyranitar does make it viable, Tyranitar is arguably still better for the job than Hippowdon, Tyranitar still has a ton of other problems to deal with.

It's responsible for one of the most common playstyles in OU and that is Sand Offense:
Tyranitar consistently tops the usage lists both in ladder and tournaments and for good reason.
Considering that around 1/4 to 1/5 of those were Mega Tyranitar, regular Tyranitar really isn't that high up the usage list. Also, considering that not every regular Tyranitar on that list will have a Smooth Rock (or even some other item which barely even qualifies it for sand offense but more "hyper offense/bulky offense with an Excadrill splashed in"), and you can take a huge number out of that list. Yes, the other sets are still good, but not optimal if you're trying to actually support a Sand team. You are not carrying out a prolonged late-game sweep with Excadrill. Like I said, other sets, especially Choice Scarf, are still good but people kept praising Smooth Rock Tyranitar as one of the best things ever. You also said Tyranitar is responsible for it working, but I'd say that anything with an Excadrill in 3-4 turns of sand depending on how quickly you get it out barely even works against anyone who is not a) down to 2 Pokemon weak to EQ b) running a team so offensive and so weak synergistically that it's pretty much 6-0'd by Excadrill anyway in which case you probably wish you didn't have to switch it out to refresh sand turns but could just carry on your sweep unhindered or c) just randomly clicking buttons. Which brings me back to my original point:

Um what? I know you're a good battler but that's just a ridiculous claim that makes no sense what so ever..
Smooth Rock Tyranitar is terrible at everything except for providing Sand. It has Pursuit which is "nice", but considering that the only things you are mortally wounding is Latios/Latias because not much else is really weak to dark and frail enough to actually care about a weak-ass Pursuit off of an unboosted an probably not fully invested attack Stat. Good luck fitting Crunch on as well. It has Stealth Rock which is okay I guess. It still provides 0 offensive presence because outside of the "surprise kill" against Gliscor or Ferrothorn against someone who didn't expect Tyranitar to carry those moves for whatever reason you're not actually killing anything. Hell, you're more likely to give free switches to stuff Sand absolutely hates dealing with such as Azumarill, Keldeo, Terrakion or even stuff like Mega Venusaur that shrugs off anything (who should stay in A+ by the way, I've played plenty of sand teams with offensive Mega Venusaur; most of the time the opposite is the case. While you can't stay healthy with Synthesis most Pokemon on your standard sand team take a huge beating from Giga Drain which easily 2HKOs Excadrill, for example. If I need to make a bigger post on this I will but I honestly don't feel as if Mega Venusaur has fallen off a lot) your pathetic attack stats can throw at it. Choice Scarf and Choice Band are nice in their own right, but thats why Tyranitar is A rank and not lower. Smooth Rock is terrible at: not providing sand. Choice Scarf/Band are terrible at: providing sand. How am I not making sense? If you really think 3-4 turns of sand are enough for Excadrill to mortally wound any well built team in this metagame then you need to read the post Jirachee made about how easy it is to beat Excadrill in such a situation. If you want to do actual damage with Excadrill then you can't afford to run anything but Smooth Rock unless you have a Hippowdon or whatever too. If you want to do damage or have actual utility outside of setting sand with Tyranitar then you need to run a boosting item or Tyranitarite or something. It can't even do the two things it desperately wants to do at the same time. I honestly can't see how this thing could be anywhere above A, especially considering that it isn't the only Pokemon able to set sand like it is the case with Politoed and rain.

The amount of support it provides is incredible:

Not only does it bring sandstorm to the table but it also has STAB Pursuit which is a godsend to Tyranitar as it goes like bread and butter with it's high 134 base attack stat. Tyranitar can deal huge damage or even OHKO Pokemon like Latios, Latias, Mega Manetric, Talonflame, Starmie, Raikou, Zapdos, Slowbro, Mew with it's CB or Scarf set. Pursuit is also really useful when you want to take out something at low health for example a Thundurus, Dragonite, Zard Y etc. It can also Pursuit stuff locked into something that doesn't do much to it like a CB Dragonite locked into Extremespeed or a Staraptor locked into Brave Bird.
Again, I explained why STAB Pursuit on a set that reliably provides sand is really not a big deal so I'll just respond to Choice Band or Choice Scarf Pursuit here. Yes, it can trap some Pokemon. Yes, it traps them more reliably than Bisharp. Problem is, you are not coming in on pretty much any of those Pokemon barring Latios, Latias and Zapdos safely. Mega Manectric/Raikou will just Volt Switch all over the place most of the time which not only makes you take damage but also lets them bring in one of the many Pokemon that have no problem handling Tyranitar. Talonflame can U-turn out or even burn you with a bulky set. If you catch it on Brave Bird then nice, Talonflame is dead I guess. If you don't, well, that's that. I don't think I have to rexplain why you can't come in on something with a STAB Scald such as Slowbro or Starmie, especially when you can't even OHKO Physically Defensive Slowbro so it can just scout your move with Slack Off and switch out if it's Choice Band Crunch and get all its health back with Regenerator. Mew just uses Knock Off or Will-o-Wisp or anything to just completely smush your Tyranitar. If you bring it in after one of these Pokemon kill something then... they got a kill and you still aren't guaranteed to take them out. And are locked into Pursuit. In a metagame that has Pokemon such as Mega Tyranitar, Mega Gyarados, Keldeo, Azumarill, Clefable, Mega Charizard X or one of the many other Pokemon that take advantage of Dark type attacks. Not like it's fatal if these Pokemon misjudge your set as Smooth Rock can't do fuck all to most of them with its standard set anyway, not to mention is probably needed to be kept alive for its oh-so-wonderful sand. That's why Bisharp's Pursuit was so powerful when it was a thing: nothing likes setting up on a 125 attack boosting item STAB Knock Off/Iron Head. I honestly still can't see how the Smooth Rock's set has any kind of useful utility 90% of the time especially considering you're supposed to keep it alive so you can't really afford to pursuit (m)any of these Pokemon. I already explained that Choice Scarf is probably its best set, but even then it's just another Choice Scarf user who trades off speed for Pursuit. Important speed for, oftentimes, not as important Pursuit. Hell, when I ran Choice Scarf Tyranitar I didn't even run Pursuit because one of the worst things you can do is getting locked in, especially when it's your only Scarfer and revenge killer outside of an Excadrill which gets 5 turns of sand max. Sound familiar? Yes, that's what you've been saying. It's still a good Pokemon in its own right but nothing special. Choice Band is pretty fucking strong and, again, it's a good set, but what kind of sand support locks itself into a move and only gives you 5 turns of sand? I outlined how Smooth Rock is absolutely pathetic at everything else and how Band/Scarf are absolutely pathetic at sand support so please tell me how Tyranitar does what it needs to do. Or does it well, rather.

Tyranitar prevents Pokemon like Cresselia and Mega Venusaur from healing reliably:

It's one of the reasons why Mega Venusaur is not so effective anymore and why Cresselia is not very viable.
I don't know why people think Mega Venusaur has become any less effective or why people think it gives more than a single fuck about sand ?_? Mega Venusaur is arguably one of the best Pokemon against any Sand team without Pinsir. Tyranitar takes a huge chunk from Giga Drain. Excadrill is 2HKO'd by Giga Drain. Common support Pokemon such as Azumarill, Keldeo and Thundurus obviously don't stand a chance. Landorus is 2HKOd. Why do you need Synthesis when, against your standard sand team, Giga Drain is more healing than you'd ever need? If anything, Mega Tyranitar without either Band or a ton of speed sucks against Mega Venusaur because it means it'll have even more free turns to Giga Drain and harrass the rest of your team. Cresselia has lots of other problems such as its vulnerability to status, complete lack of offensive presence, especially when running TWave over Toxic (at least Chansey has SToss), weakness to Knock Off from the likes of Bisharp and Azumarill and only 8 PP on its recovery move. Sand weakening it is just the cherry on the cake and not a big reason at all.

Tyranitar checks huge threats very nicely:
It checks flying spam while being also a nice check to Zard X, Charizard Y and bunch of other threats.
Not only does it kill or deal huge damage to all those Pokemon with Pursuit that I mentioned but at the same time it supports Pokemon like Charizard-Y and Keldeo making their jobs a lot easier.
How does anything but Choice Scarf Tyranitar check Flying Spam and especially Charizard Y? Even then, against Zard, on the first turn coming in you'll either take half from Fire Blast, 90% from Solarbeam, or an OHKO from Focus Blast. It's really not too good of a check and, like I said, this only applies to ScarfTar anyway. Pinsir just kills you and Charizard just kills you too.... if anything that sounds like an argument as to why Choice Scarf is its best set and not why it should be S-Rank. Also, since you were referring to Tyranitar's tournament usage, I'm pretty sure that Charizard X's most common sets are BulkyZard and SD + Tailwind in tournament play because DD hasn't been as good as those in quite a bit. I'd love to see your standard Tyranitar handle either of those. I guess ScarfTar checks it as it only takes like 40% from Flare Blitz and 80% from Outrage which is technically enough to beat it but yeah.

Tyranitar has many viable sets:
Tyranitar can be physically defensive, Scarf, Band, AV, SR though I'll admit Scarf is it's best set in the current meta but it the other sets are still very effective.
"Dragonite can run DD Lum, Specially Defensive, Weakness Policy, Agility, CB though I'll admit Band is it's best set in the current meta but it the other sets are still very effective."
Many sets being "viable" doesn't mean they're good or should necessarily see use. Especially when Assault Vest Tyranitar is not only completely unnecessary but also provides neither the Sand nor Stealth Rock nor offensive presence making it fail in every single department. Much like Agility Dragonite is garbage but, hey, I'll list it for the sake of filling up my list. And isn't Physically Defensive and SR kind of the same as in Smooth Rock? As far as I'm concerned, Tyranitar has 3 sets and I already explained why 2 of them fail at providing sand while the last one fails at doing anything else. If you can't even carry out two of your main "missions" to a worthwhile degree at the same time (and no, before anyone tries to compare this to Azumarill not being able to sweep with Belly Drum at the same time it "walls" with Assault Vest, that is not the same. That is Azumarill choosing a set based on what it prefers for itself and for indirect support for its team, not a set such as ScarfTar which is still expected to provide direct support, in this case sand, but fails miserably at it much like how ScarfToed is a terrible rain setter), how does that make you an S-Rank Pokemon? Or an A+-Rank Pokemon?

Tyranitar fits the S-rank criteria perfectly:
no

It wants Smooth Rock
No it doesn't 8 turns of sand is nice and all but even 4-5 turns is more than enough for Excadrill to do it's job.
yes it does, and Jirachee's post made a pretty good effort of explaining it so I won't do it again here.

If you use Scarf Tyranitar you need another scarfer.
No you don't. This isn't 5th gen. Pokemon like Talonflame and Excadrill are already amazing revenge killers so no you don't need another scarfer.
That is true, if this was generation 5 you would have constant weather and wouldn't have to worry about something with the imposing name of "Mega Gyarados" or "Mega Tyranitar" or the slightly less imposing name "Azumarill" setting up on your weak Pursuit/moves in general and killing your Excadrill once the short 5 turns of sand inevitably end. Or your Tyranitar if you send it in to refresh those very same turns. Or, in Azumarril's case, just don't give a fuck either way. Talonflame is nice and all, but it can't revenge kill every single threat and definitely can't come in on any of them to prevent the damage before it occurs. While you don't need a secondary scarfer, in common battle conditions, it will almost always be a necessity at one point or another especially because Tyranitar being your fastest non-Excadrill-in-sand Pokemon also means that you'll be weak to stuff such as Greninja by default. Or Alakazam. Or Mega Aerodactyl.

CrashinBoomBang:
Um what? I know you're a good battler but that's just a ridiculous claim that makes no sense what so ever..
to sum this up tl;dr: scarf/band tyranitar are nice but bad at providing sand. smooth rock tyranitar is not nice and only provides sand. can't do both well at once. not even close to s-rank. only reason it's even A for me is because the non smooth rock sets are so "ok".
 
Psyshock? Recover? Scald? Heck Starmie would even use HP Fire if it had a moveslot for it.
Scald can be switched for hydro if you really want the status,psyshock is nice as it gets stab but its only really used for venusaur as ice beam is enough to cover grass types, I don't think starmie needs recovery as its job is to get hazards off the field and hit hard with analytic boosted hydro pumps.

Isn't scizor the only thing hp fire hits that the other moves dont as
252 SpA Choice Specs Analytic Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Scizor: 264-312 (76.9 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
the bulky set cant switch in.
 
See the thing about skarmory is that no matter what it does its gonna be passive as all shit lol, and I don't think shed shell skarm is too bad considering that if the team CAN'T trap skarm, then they often just lose to it. Its still pretty much the best hazard remover for stall so definitely keep it A-.

I might as well address my favorite mon while i'm at it, Tyranitar. Its definitely A+ Material as you don't need smooth rock; honestly the only thing exca will really be doing is revenge killing in this meta and there's no need to even run smooth rock imho. The prevalence of rotom-w, lando-t, and every other bulky mon exca can't break through pretty much makes it impossible to clean with exca; exca is a revenge killer in the sand and that's all it should be used for, its a pretty subpar cleaner. So the "good sets" provide more than enough sand for exca to work with really.

But i'm talking about exca lets talk about tyranitar, more specifically its mega form: Seeing as I just adressed sand rush exca, I think its kind of obvious what the problem here is...
Its just too easy to revenge kill right now. Sand rush exca and scarf lando-t have seen gigantic leaps in popularity and mega ttar just will not sweep with all these mons that can take it down so easily. Sure scarf lando-t actually doesn't even kill with eq but any priority after that will do the job lol; the prevalence of mega gard, mega hera, and mega cham also make it tougher for mega tar to set up than usual, and offer more competition for a mega slot as well. Ultimately its really declined in how well it cleans with all the sand offense so I'd probably drop it to A.
I dont agree with excadrill not being a sweeper, and you have limited your explanation to the 3 attacks + rapid spin, but a sd set can easely sweep, and blast through walls. It can sd on the switch into lando or rotom, and with just a bit of prior damage break through them. So while i agree with exca being a excelent revange killer, and ttar that dont need smooth rock to support it, i also belive that exca is a excelent sweeper, and 8 turns of sand support it a lot better tbh.

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 222-263 (58.1 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So with about 30% prior damage on lando and with sr, it will become a very shakky check.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 170-201 (55.9 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
The same thing as for lando
and with every other bulky mon:
Hippodown: +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 415-489 (98.8 - 116.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Slowbro: +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 324-382 (82.2 - 96.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Skarmory: +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 136-161 (40.7 - 48.2%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (go for a +4)

Mandibuzz: +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 367-434 (86.7 - 102.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Chansey: +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 636-749 (90.3 - 106.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

And finally gliscor: +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 317-374 (90 - 106.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock


Couple this with a nice 30% flinch chance and you have good chance of deffeting those.

So excadrill can sweep on its own.
 
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