If you consider Drain Punch / High Jump Kick and Rock Slide / Stone Edge different moves then there's something wrong about you lol, it's just that sometimes people tend to use HJK over Drain Punch and vice versa, same thing with Rock Slide and Stone Edge. I told you that I'll be making it harder few days ago, the reasons behind this is just I don't want to see shitty gimmicks like Beldum again so that I don't have to remove sets which may cause people to go salty about it.k so how exactly is it fair that mienfoo gets 7 moves to pick and choose from?
2 poison jabs with SR up, gg not a counter.
Spritzee @ Eviolite
Ability: Aroma Veil
Level: 5
EVs: 212 HP / 196 Def / 12 SpA / 76 SpD / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind / Aromatherapy
Spritzee was always one of mienfoo's best counters in LC, even if mienfoo had poison jab. Most likely, mienfoo wants to either high jump kick or knock off an item on your leading pokemon, so you could just switch into spritzee and take a knock off and a poison jab combo. Then, spritzee could just moonblast the life orb mienfoo and let it get OHKO'd.
Calcs:
236 Atk Life Orb Mienfoo Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 3-4 (11.1 - 14.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock
236 Atk Life Orb Mienfoo High Jump Kick vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 6-8 (22.2 - 29.6%) -- 42.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
236 Atk Life Orb Mienfoo Poison Jab vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 13-16 (48.1 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
236 Atk Life Orb Mienfoo Poison Jab vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Spritzee: 18-23 (66.6 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock <-- Spritzee with no item.
You do need to rely on rolls a bit if stealth rocks are up, but spritzee could take a knock off and a poison jab together. Plus, if mienfoo goes for HJK, spritzee will also survive that and a poison jab with its eviolite intact. Switching Spritzee into mienfoo is a little risky though since your opponent can poison jab on the switch and has a chance to 2HKO you. Even with that downside, I still believe spritzee is an amazing counter to life orb mienfoo.
You do realize that Sludge bomb also has an over 90% chance to 2HKO, right?
Foongus @ Eviolite
Ability: Effect Spore/Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 124 HP / 160 Def / 160 SDef
Bold Nature
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power Flying
That's the classic Foongus, I have not increase his SAtk, it's the classic evs set. So are the same three of his moves. But Hidden Power is different, that's lethal for Mienfoo in a 1vs1. Foongus could take a fake out and another hit with a max damage equal to 30%. Then you can choose also to use Giga Drain to recover some HP, and finish the "little ermine" with HP Flying. Removing eviolite after first Knock Off, gives to Foongus an important mark up to be always victorious. Some calcs:
236 Atk Life Orb Mienfoo Fake Out vs. 124 HP / 160+ Def Eviolite Foongus on a critical hit: 6-8 (24 - 32%) -- 22.8% chance to 4HKO
236 Atk Life Orb Mienfoo High Jump Kick vs. 124 HP / 160+ Def Eviolite Foongus: 8-9 (32 - 36%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO
236 Atk Life Orb Mienfoo Stone Edge vs. 124 HP / 160+ Def Eviolite Foongus: 8-10 (32 - 40%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO
236 Atk Life Orb Mienfoo Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 124 HP / 160+ Def Eviolite Foongus: 8-10 (32 - 40%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Foongus Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mienfoo: 9-12 (42.8 - 57.1%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO
236 Atk Life Orb Mienfoo Stone Edge vs. 124 HP / 160+ Def Foongus: 13-16 (52 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
236 Atk Life Orb Mienfoo High Jump Kick vs. 124 HP / 160+ Def Foongus: 12-14 (48 - 56%) -- 68.4% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Foongus Hidden Power Flying vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mienfoo: 10-14 (47.6 - 66.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
You are right. Your calc is correct:You do realize that Sludge bomb also has an over 90% chance to 2HKO, right?
First of all the only set that I named a gimmick was Beldum, secondly Reckless LO Mienfoo is one of the biggest underrated Mienfoo sets (Yes it does run U-Turn but it got removed because as Vileman said it'll allow Mienfoo to switch out of its counter, it can escape it by simply switching out but that is avoided in these kinds of threads). Also, I took the sample LO Mienfoo, some people use Drain Punch for recovery and others use HJK w/ Reckless for power and in the topic set Drain Punch can be not looked at as HJK totally outclasses it, Stone Edge and Rock Slide case is different though as each move has something that differs it than the other one, Stone Edge has power and Rock Slide has better accuracy with a chance to flinch.So why exactly are we not allowed to use "shitty gimmicks" when looking for the strongest counter possible? When you think about it, the set put in place is a gimmick in itself, so shouldn't we be using gimmicks to be it if possible? When was the last time you saw someone using Reckless LO Mienfoo without U-turn successfully? There are Pokemon in other tiers/metas that are used to combat one specific Pokemon very well, and I think we should be allowed to go into this with that mindset. Also, you really shouldn't have any moves slashed on the set. Please have it be more defined. Drain Punch and HJK are vastly different moves that only share a type. Rock Slide and Stone Edge also have different effects. If I'm going to be putting together a set to counter this thing, I would like an exact moveset. If you just said HJK/SE/PJab/Knock Off it would be fine.
I'll probably contribute something later, but quite frankly, Zeriloa has the best answer hands down.