XY OU Tentacruel-Doublade stall?!

[Yamborski]

This is the first RMT I have posted in about two years so expect it to be a little... rough. Also I had a Tentacruel but Jukain killed it.

Anyhow my favorite play style has always been stall. Offense is fun but I feel much less in control when I am forced to bet the outcome of a game on Tyranitar's Stone Edge or Latios Meteors not missing. What I have the most trouble with when I play stall is chip damage wearing down my walls, probably more than actual attacks. So I built this team to be as resistant to residual damage as I can. I originally had Aegislash on this team but with his banning I needed a replacement to try and handle Mega Gardevoir. I tried Skarmory, Scizor, and even defensive Charizard Y before coming full circle and just using Aegi's pre-evolution Doublade. I haven't played very much 6th gen so while this team isn't exactly game breaking it is the most successful team I have used this gen. I played 50 matches with it today and won 46 of them (which is not even close to what I need to get anywhere near the leaderboard) so it seems to fare decently in most matches. Due to Regenerator, Toxic Heal, Wish, and four status absorbers I feel like this team can deal with hax fairly well. A few downsides is that I have trouble with Knock Off. My only Knock Off switch in is Gliscor who can sort of screw himself over if he loses Toxic Orb and later in the match I have to Heal Bell. I also have some trouble with Swords Dance Mega Scizor unless I can burn it. I won't rant on any more. I like this team but it certainly has a long way to go to become better.

Though this is to be used on Pokemon Showdown and thus must conform to Smogon bans and clauses I also want this to be a Wifi team. Due to the fact that it will mostly play IRL friends who are not fully competitive this team may have no legends. Not to mention getting good IVed legends is relatively difficult. Also due to this being a Wifi team I need to be at least somewhat prepared for things banned by Smogon such as Aegislash, Blaziken, and M Kanga.

@ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss

First up is a staple on stall. Chansey basically ignores special attacks. Things that would otherwise be devastating like Greninja and Charizard Y are useless vs Chansey. Due to Chansey's bulk I decided to run Stealth Rocks here. In long games I have sometimes wished I ran Blissey due to Lefties recovery somewhat negating the damage from Stealth Rocks (Chansey switch ins are often obvious and I have been on the butt end of double switches numerous times) as well as not minding Knock Off as much but Chansey's extra physical bulk lets it take on Psyshock and Kyurem B. Toxic is nice to give the dick to Rotom W, Landorus, and a few others. Seismic Toss gives Chansey some decent damage output. I max Defense and SP Defense because I am lazy and unoriginal. Max Special Defense helps retain Chansey's Special walling abilities even if Eviolite gets Knocked Off by some mixed fucker like Venu, Lando, or Thundurus. 4 EVs in speed because I hate speed ties and maybe one in a thousand games it will actually help when I finish off a 0 Speed Mawile or Azumarill.

@ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed / Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Toxic
- Rock Slide / Rest
- Pursuit / Sleep Talk

This was originally Aegislash, who was banned. I tried to find something that could simultaneously counter or check Heracross, Gardevoir, Latios, Terrakion, Pinsir, and Medicham. The closest I had was Mega Scizor but that left me pretty much 6-0ed against and Mega Pinsir that managed to avoid a Scald Burn (which it always did). I thought Doublade would be dead weight in most games. Only seeing use against a few stallbreaker threats but in practice Doublade has been useful almost every single match. Its bulk is obscene. With the EVs I am using it reaches 322 / 553 / 295 defenses. This is enough to shrug off pretty much any resisted hit. I know I can run 16 def EVs to hit a jump point but the difference is unnoticeable while putting the 12 EVs in SP def improves it by 1%, which helps avoid a 3HKO by Mega Gardevoir. Gyro Ball out damages Iron Head on anything with like 80 base speed uninvested and base 50 with 252 EVs. Toxic hits a few important switch ins like Charizard, Gyarados, and Garchomp. Rock Slide blasts Pinsir, Charizard and Talonflame while Pursuit punishes Gardevoir / Medicham for switching and keeps me from getting wrecked by Gothitelle too hard.

@ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 176 SpD / 80 Spe
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Knock Off
- Roost

Gliscor is one of the most reliable team members due to how easy it is to just sweep entire teams if they don't have Gliscor / Skarmory. SP Def EVs allows it to tangle with Landorus and Gengar. I'm running Knock Off to beat Gengar and also remove Ferrothorn's Lefties which greatly helps in wearing down that stupid durian. If SD Scizor ever becomes too much of a threat I can just run Fire Fang > Knock Off. 80 speed outruns Adamant Bisharp so I can avoid being crushed by +2 Iron Head and helps beat other Gliscor. I'm running Taunt to somewhat slow down Skarmory, Ferro, and Suicune.

@ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 164 HP / 244 SpA / 100 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Synthesis

I had Tentacruel here but I needed some way around Suicune and SD Scizor. Offensive Mega Venu puts a lo of pressure on the opposing team and while it lacks the defense of some Venus it still has a ton of natural bulk. Modest nature helps overpower CM Suicune while speed EVs outrun BD Azumarill.

@ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Flamethrower
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast

CM LO Magic Guard Clefable is a fun time, completely punching holes in certain teams. Life Orb recoil is negated and after even 1 Calm Mind the damage can be pretty decent. Flamethrower gives me a good offensive option against Ferro and Scizor (Mega Scizor's BP caps at only around 60%) while Moonblast covers pretty much everything else.

@ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect

Alomomola basically doesn't care about damage. With its massive HP and okay defense it can walk in on a Band Terrakion Close Combat, Protect, and switch out with virtually all of the damage recovered. +1 Tyranitar and Charizard X both 3HKO while fish poisons them and stalls them out. Alomomola passes very big Wishes to its teammates as well. I would like to run Knock Off or Mirror Coat here but I don't really have room for either one. I considered running Quagsire but that would mostly just help with Mega Scizor, but leave me completely fucked by Mega Gyarados.



Problem 'mons

- Bisharp. Gliscor can beat it as long as doesn't eat a +2 Sucker Punch (which it generally doesn't because everyone expects Sub). Fish can sort of stall it out. Still annoying.
- Gothitelle - It's pretty hard to not beat stall if you use Gothitelle.
- Suicune - Venusaur beats it but it has a decent chance or wearing it down over a long game.

 

[Shiny Magmortar]

Pretty cool team bro! Have you considered running EQ / Toxic / Roost / filler on Gliscor? SubToxic is great but you could cover a couple more threats by running Roost as well as slightly armoring your self against Landorus. Roost also keeps you from completely destroying Gliscor if you are forced to Heal Bell after Toxic Orb is removed. Some options in the 4th slot...

Knock Off - Should be obvious. Shits on stuff like Ferro / Rotom W / Gengar / other Gliscor (if switching in) / etc.
Fire Fang - Scizor is a big one. 3HKOs Ferro most of the time.
Taunt - Beats Skarmory and Ferrothorn. Helps against opposing Stall.

 

[Yamborski]

Pretty cool team bro! Have you considered running EQ / Toxic / Roost / filler on Gliscor? SubToxic is great but you could cover a couple more threats by running Roost as well as slightly armoring your self against Landorus. Roost also keeps you from completely destroying Gliscor if you are forced to Heal Bell after Toxic Orb is removed. Some options in the 4th slot...

Knock Off - Should be obvious. Shits on stuff like Ferro / Rotom W / Gengar / other Gliscor (if switching in) / etc.
Fire Fang - Scizor is a big one. 3HKOs Ferro most of the time.
Taunt - Beats Skarmory and Ferrothorn. Helps against opposing Stall.

Oh hey that's a decent idea. I tried Fire Fang before and it does work pretty well. Knock Off is also cool since Gengar is kind of a prick and I usually have to PP stall him. Taunt is nice too.

A problem I've been having has been Suicune. Clefable does beat it one on one but if it tries to come out earlier in the game it could potentially burn me and wear me down enough that Clef dies. Wish + Protect is pretty craptastic when burned. I guess I do technically have an answer for it so maybe it isn't something to worry about?

 

[Dokkerich]

zard x would be nice to absorb knock off and have another wisp absorber but I dot know how it fits on the team

 

[Yamborski]

zard x would be nice to absorb knock off and have another wisp absorber but I dot know how it fits on the team

I would love to have a Zard X but I don't see where to fit it either :/ Perhaps defensive Zard Y over Gliscor since it could check Gengar, Sciz, Landorus, and Bisharp. I don't like the idea of having something 4x weak to SR since it would get wrecked if I don't have complete control of entry hazards (for example Landorus generally sets up rocks freely since I'm too much of a wuss to dare send Tentacruel against it). Gliscor's Toxic Heal is also glorious in PP stall situations. Thanks for the rate bro!

Also I tested Knock Off + Roost on Gliscor and it works great. Gengar is an asshat and this gives me a solid-ish answer to it.

 

[Yamborski]

Bump. Anything else?

 

[ItoI6]

stall isnt very practical ingame because 1 turn in a battle can take ridiculously long to complete because of animations etc. I think alomo handles kangaskhan and blaziken pretty well though, especially if it has a rocky helm but thats not really something you should be using otherwise. I think mew>tentacruel would be a pretty good improvement for the team, I dont really see what tentacruel does that alomo and chansey dont cover beside spinning. Mew can learn defog, although I think the wow/taunt/roost/knock off set would actually be the best because of how weak to opposing stall this team is, especially to opposing gliscor with taunt. it also feels really weak to mega-pinsir but i cant think of changing anything without creating a whole load of weaknesses or changing the team altogether.

 

[Yamborski]

stall isnt very practical ingame because 1 turn in a battle can take ridiculously long to complete because of animations etc.

It's not really in-game. Multiplayer battles. I don't really care about how long the battle animations take. No one I will have to face IRL will run a competent enough team to force PP stall. IIRC multiplayer matches cap out at an hour anyway so worst case scenario there's that.

I think alomo handles kangaskhan and blaziken pretty well though, especially if it has a rocky helm but thats not really something you should be using otherwise.

Not really. +2 hits do a ton to fish. Tenta sort of checks Blaziken and Kanga can't do shit to Doublade unless it runs Earthquake. I'd like to keep my mind open on checking those mons but despite being used on Wifi this is primarily to be used as a Smogon team.

I think mew>tentacruel would be a pretty good improvement for the team, I dont really see what tentacruel does that alomo and chansey dont cover beside spinning.

Tentacruel beats Keldeo and absorbs Scalds. It can switch in on Ferrothorn and beat it most of the time as well as absorb Toxic Spikes. Tenta can switch directly in on defensive Heatran, not even giving a crap about Lava Plume burns and spinning the rocks away. It hard counters most Mega Venusaur and shits on Leech Seed spam.

Mew can learn defog, although I think the wow/taunt/roost/knock off set would actually be the best because of how weak to opposing stall this team is, especially to opposing gliscor with taunt.

I don't consider myself weak to opposing stall, besides Suicune. Taunt Gliscor can be PP stalled by switching between fish and my own Gliscor. The Mew set you suggested does little to even Sp Def Gliscor. 0 Atk Mew Knock Off vs. No item 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 39-47 (11 - 13.3%). Best case scenario Mew is forced to try and PP stall it, worst case it switches in on Toxic and is forced out or is out-speed crept and Mew gets Taunted. Mew does slightly help against ending stall wars but it just makes me weaker to Scizor and Bisharp.

I could just run Taunt on Gliscor to get the same "stall breaking" effect without dropping Tenta.

it also feels really weak to mega-pinsir but i cant think of changing anything without creating a whole load of weaknesses or changing the team altogether.

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Eviolite Doublade: 105-125 (32.6 - 38.8%)

I haven't seen a single one with Earthquake since the Aegislash ban but even if they did Doublade takes less than 80% from +2 quake and can Toxic back. Clefable can Wish stall it until it dies if it's poisoned. It's something to watch out for but not a 'mon that I would consider myself weak to.

Edit: Mew is an awful idea but now that I think about it Taunt support might be nice. Perhaps over Toxic on Gliscor?

 

[Agent Gibbs]

I personally like Taunt > Earthquake because Knock Off is too good for stupid Gengars and otherwise doing what Knock Offs do, Roost is Roost, and Taunt + Toxic is an important combination for really putting pressure on stall. Earthquake has honestly been the easiest move to replace in my experience, but if you really need that STAB Ground coverage or something, then maybe you could make do with putting it over Toxic.

Also, you're sort of 6-0'd by specially defensive Bulk Up + Taunt Talonflame since nothing on your team can 2HKO it, you can't Scald burn it, and the only Pokemon that don't get at least 2HKOed by a +6 Brave Bird are Doublade and Clefable, both of which get worn down slowly while Talonflame takes little damage in return. Not really sure how to fix that because this thing can seriously take a hit. Even if you ran Slowbro like you were talking about earlier with its 20% stronger Scald over Tentacruel, you still can't 2HKO 248/252+ Talonflame, lol. Not a super common set, though, so you should be fine like 99% of the time. But I'll probably counterteam you with it next time I play you. ;)

So yeah, that's about as useful as this rate is going to get, lol. I'll try to help out a little more later this evening when I'm done with classes for the day, but I'm also kind of bad at this so...we'll see.

 

[Yamborski]

I personally like Taunt > Earthquake because Knock Off is too good for stupid Gengars and otherwise doing what Knock Offs do, Roost is Roost, and Taunt + Toxic is an important combination for really putting pressure on stall. Earthquake has honestly been the easiest move to replace in my experience, but if you really need that STAB Ground coverage or something, then maybe you could make do with putting it over Toxic.

That's a really good idea. I'm kind of afraid of Bisharp but its not like Sp Def Gliscor is much of a check anyway. I'll try that!

Also, you're sort of 6-0'd by specially defensive Bulk Up + Taunt Talonflame since nothing on your team can 2HKO it, you can't Scald burn it, and the only Pokemon that don't get at least 2HKOed by a +6 Brave Bird are Doublade and Clefable, both of which get worn down slowly while Talonflame takes little damage in return. Not really sure how to fix that because this thing can seriously take a hit. Even if you ran Slowbro like you were talking about earlier with its 20% stronger Scald over Tentacruel, you still can't 2HKO 248/252+ Talonflame, lol. Not a super common set, though, so you should be fine like 99% of the time. But I'll probably counterteam you with it next time I play you. ;)

So yeah, that's about as useful as this rate is going to get, lol. I'll try to help out a little more later this evening when I'm done with classes for the day, but I'm also kind of bad at this so...we'll see.

I actually did face one and I beat it by sending in fish and spamming Scald. It got to +6 and fish hit it with Scald. Talonflame used Brave Bird, failed to KO, and was hit by Scald again which KOed because of BB recoil. But if my opponent was smarter and only got to +3 or +4 he could have just 2HKOed me and safely Roosted off the recoil. Tentacruel can tank even a +4 0 atk Brave Bird and spam Scald putting pressure on it. Scald is a solid 3HKO so Talonflame will be forced to basically use Roost twice followed by Bulk Up to stay healthy, which will eat through Roost PP especially with crits.

Or perhaps the Talonflame player knows enough to wear down my few counters and I just outright lose to it. Bwah!

 

[Yamborski]

Bump? :)

 

[Lucs99]

If you run Haze + Rest on Tentacruel with enough Sp Def EVs to guarantee survival against three Venusaur Giga Drains you can use it to PP stall Suicune as well as beating SD Scizor a little easier.

Alternatively drop Doublade for a Defog Skarmory and run either Haze on Tenta or Amoonguss with Giga Drain and Clear Smog. This would give you a way to kind of handle Scizor, Bisharp, Suicune. It would make you weaker to Ferrothorn though.

 

[Jukain]

hey there, man, nice team, your members synergize well and you cover most threats pretty nicely. props on using doublade effectively. but, i definitely feel you can make some improvements to help the team.

problems

first of all, you have a big redundancy in your team in that you use alomomola, an incredibly reliable wish passer, combined with two pokemon that use rest for recovery. you're basically wasting alomomola by doing this. you don't need that extra recovery, and your pokemon have better options they can run. there's another major redundancy in heal bell + natural cure user + gliscor + two toxic immunes. heal bell is redundant with all of these mons that don't care about status and ultimately can prove detrimental when you deactivate gliscor's toxic orb, which is especially bad if it gets knocked off for whatever unavoidable reason. the final redundancy is running two fat bulky waters that, though they don't fill exactly the same role, amplify your weakness to certain threats and make the team significantly more passive.

you're also actually very weak to a few threats. though you do have unaware clefable, you are a bit weak to bd azumarill as you kinda have to bank on not getting flinched or you really get screwed over. there's a gaping weakness to subdd mega gyara, which pretty much 6-0s your team if it gets in on tenta or blade or gliscor or mola. though it's a little uncommon you're literally 6-0'd by subcm keldeo, which bypasses your keldeo answer (tentacruel). stallbreaker talonflame (taunt bu & taunt wisp) runs house through this. your weakness to crocune and the aforementioned bd azumarill forces you to run a subpar set on clefable when you could have a legitimately threatening win condition on your hands, while unaware cm is only used as a fail-safe to certain threats you need covered rather than a sweeper that could help reduce the passivity of your team and force the opponent to make more in the way of plays. you can't really touch mew, it's basically just a pp stall fest that in turn will cost a lot of your pp, particularly from your gliscor, which can be problematic in long stall wars. pinsir can be a problem because doublade, your answer to it, can't directly kill it. it is especially an issue if carrying eq to ohko heatrans, which is not something to ignore.

my first suggestion to help with your problems is offensive mega venusaur > tentacruel. i don't think you need hazard removal. you can often pressure opponents to remove hazards with defog, and if it's exca spin there's a damn good chance they can't break your fat core anyways. this opens up spikes-stacking to be a threat, but that is rare enough to the point where i wouldn't be concerned about it. none of your pokemon care about rocks that much, especially with some other things i'll mention later on. offensive mega venusaur is hugely useful for your team. it is a good answer to bd azumarill, crocune, subdd mega gyarados, and all versions of keldeo (including the subcm). it gives you something better for gliscor than sitting there and pp stalling it, too, and can pull some pressure off chansey in the way of combating thundurus so long as it doesn't have psychic or hidden power flying. with hidden power fire, it can even help combat mega scizor, and provides a better pivot into rotom-w. mega venusaur actually packs a pretty good punch, giving you a solid defensive anchor in general and vs these threats your team is weak to as well as a method of putting more pressure on the opposing team.

mega venusaur set

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 164 HP / 244 SpA / 100 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power Fire
- Synthesis

speed evs are for jolly bd azumarill which could otherwise pose a bit of a problem and then creep rotoms that do the same, as well as crocune. hp and spatk evs can be switched if desired, i just prefer having the more power, but that's up to you.

with that change, and your weakness to bd azumarill and crocune pretty nicely alleviated, i heavily recommend running a magic guard cm clefable instead of your unaware variant. thanks to mega venusaur, the threats you needed covered by unaware are dealt with, and you are free to run a magic guard set. this is huge for clefable. this means it isn't susceptible to status or other forms of residual damage eg stealth rock and weather, and is able to run flamethrower for some really nice coverage. with this, it is transformed into a great and threatening sweeper. with a no-recoil life orb, it can even break chansey. magic guard clefable provides a solid win condition and a defensive anchor with reliable recovery that is much less prone to all the residual damage unaware clefable is so susceptible to.

magic guard cm clefable set

Clefable @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 80 SpA / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Soft-Boiled

lo + 80 spa evs is to 2hko chansey with +6 moonblast. if it tries to stall that out just fish for a burn with flamethrower. life orb may seem like a weird option but it's damn strong and lets it dish out some serious damage, even with just +1. 4 spe evs in case the speed tie with other clefable ever matters.

at this point, heal bell has become even more redundant on chansey. you have a natural cure user, a magic guard user, poison heal gliscor, and two toxic immunes. with so many status aborbers there's almost no reason at all to use it, and in fact it can hurt you, especially if you send out gliscor against say landorus-t or anything else and get its item knocked off. thus, i recommend toxic > heal bell on chansey which can definitely helpful, especially against pesky np variants of thundurus, and harms various mons like mega heracross or medicham or terrakion or whatever that think they can get a free switch-in. it can especially help you combat cm landorus, as you can pull off the status and then at least stall it out, and is generally useful for chipping away at mons. an option i might consider here is blissey > chansey, which fills much of the same role. you do have clefable and doublade already to check different versions of kyurem-b, and that leftovers recovery could definitely help out in stall wars and reducing the impact of stealth rock/double switches. just a minor idea though, as you said you were already considering it.

going back to the redundancy of mola + rest heal, i would recommend dropping resttalk on doublade. mola heals doublade just fine, rest just makes doublade useless and even more of a sitting duck. you can run double wish (blob + mola) if you really want to ensure that recovery, whatever, i wouldn't but there is the option. i would definitely use rock slide to easily ohko pinsir, which is big because blade is your only real answer to it. for the last move there are two options i'd try out, those being sacred sword and shadow claw. sacred sword would let you hit bisharp switch-ins, while shadow claw gives a more reliable attack for stuff like breaking hera's subs and has actual pp which can be useful. you could also run pursuit, which can dispatch the latis permanently as well as trap a weakened gothitelle which can be a massive pain. it also punishes the likes of cham and gard for switching out of doublade.

lastly, there a few minor optimizations i would make. first, magic coat > protect on mola. i never thought protect was mandatory on alomomola because you so rarely have to stay in and heal, and magic coat can be nice. in this case, it's useful for taunt heatrans (though running blissey > chansey also helps with this problem as the status is less effective at wearing blissey down thanks to leftovers) as well as stallbreaker talonflames. it can bounce back rocks, too, from the likes of ferro, tran, and other stuff to pressure the opponent to defog and aid in keeping it off your side of the field. i recommend an ev spread of 248 HP / 16 Atk / 244 SpD with an adamant nature on doublade. without an attack-boosting nature, doublade is pitifully weak. i don't really have calcs but it basically just hits the first atk jump point with spdef for gard, and allows doublade to hit harder than a wet paper towel, which from my experiences and the experiences of some other people i've told to use this spread is definitely appreciated. finally, taunt > toxic and 80 spe evs on gliscor to help in stalling out opposing gliscor.

good luck, hope i helped with the team!

 

[Yamborski]

hey there, man, nice team, your members synergize well and you cover most threats pretty nicely. props on using doublade effectively. but, i definitely feel you can make some improvements to help the team.

problems

first of all, you have a big redundancy in your team in that you use alomomola, an incredibly reliable wish passer, combined with two pokemon that use rest for recovery. you're basically wasting alomomola by doing this. you don't need that extra recovery, and your pokemon have better options they can run. there's another major redundancy in heal bell + natural cure user + gliscor + two toxic immunes. heal bell is redundant with all of these mons that don't care about status and ultimately can prove detrimental when you deactivate gliscor's toxic orb, which is especially bad if it gets knocked off for whatever unavoidable reason. the final redundancy is running two fat bulky waters that, though they don't fill exactly the same role, amplify your weakness to certain threats and make the team significantly more passive.

you're also actually very weak to a few threats. though you do have unaware clefable, you are a bit weak to bd azumarill as you kinda have to bank on not getting flinched or you really get screwed over. there's a gaping weakness to subdd mega gyara, which pretty much 6-0s your team if it gets in on tenta or blade or gliscor or mola. though it's a little uncommon you're literally 6-0'd by subcm keldeo, which bypasses your keldeo answer (tentacruel). stallbreaker talonflame (taunt bu & taunt wisp) runs house through this. your weakness to crocune and the aforementioned bd azumarill forces you to run a subpar set on clefable when you could have a legitimately threatening win condition on your hands, while unaware cm is only used as a fail-safe to certain threats you need covered rather than a sweeper that could help reduce the passivity of your team and force the opponent to make more in the way of plays. you can't really touch mew, it's basically just a pp stall fest that in turn will cost a lot of your pp, particularly from your gliscor, which can be problematic in long stall wars. pinsir can be a problem because doublade, your answer to it, can't directly kill it. it is especially an issue if carrying eq to ohko heatrans, which is not something to ignore.

my first suggestion to help with your problems is offensive mega venusaur > tentacruel. i don't think you need hazard removal. you can often pressure opponents to remove hazards with defog, and if it's exca spin there's a damn good chance they can't break your fat core anyways. this opens up spikes-stacking to be a threat, but that is rare enough to the point where i wouldn't be concerned about it. none of your pokemon care about rocks that much, especially with some other things i'll mention later on. offensive mega venusaur is hugely useful for your team. it is a good answer to bd azumarill, crocune, subdd mega gyarados, and all versions of keldeo (including the subcm). it gives you something better for gliscor than sitting there and pp stalling it, too, and can pull some pressure off chansey in the way of combating thundurus so long as it doesn't have psychic or hidden power flying. with hidden power fire, it can even help combat mega scizor, and provides a better pivot into rotom-w. mega venusaur actually packs a pretty good punch, giving you a solid defensive anchor in general and vs these threats your team is weak to as well as a method of putting more pressure on the opposing team.

mega venusaur set

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 164 HP / 244 SpA / 100 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power Fire
- Synthesis

speed evs are for jolly bd azumarill which could otherwise pose a bit of a problem and then creep rotoms that do the same, as well as crocune. hp and spatk evs can be switched if desired, i just prefer having the more power, but that's up to you.

with that change, and your weakness to bd azumarill and crocune pretty nicely alleviated, i heavily recommend running a magic guard cm clefable instead of your unaware variant. thanks to mega venusaur, the threats you needed covered by unaware are dealt with, and you are free to run a magic guard set. this is huge for clefable. this means it isn't susceptible to status or other forms of residual damage eg stealth rock and weather, and is able to run flamethrower for some really nice coverage. with this, it is transformed into a great and threatening sweeper. with a no-recoil life orb, it can even break chansey. magic guard clefable provides a solid win condition and a defensive anchor with reliable recovery that is much less prone to all the residual damage unaware clefable is so susceptible to.

magic guard cm clefable set

Clefable @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 80 SpA / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Soft-Boiled

lo + 80 spa evs is to 2hko chansey with +6 moonblast. if it tries to stall that out just fish for a burn with flamethrower. life orb may seem like a weird option but it's damn strong and lets it dish out some serious damage, even with just +1. 4 spe evs in case the speed tie with other clefable ever matters.

at this point, heal bell has become even more redundant on chansey. you have a natural cure user, a magic guard user, poison heal gliscor, and two toxic immunes. with so many status aborbers there's almost no reason at all to use it, and in fact it can hurt you, especially if you send out gliscor against say landorus-t or anything else and get its item knocked off. thus, i recommend toxic > heal bell on chansey which can definitely helpful, especially against pesky np variants of thundurus, and harms various mons like mega heracross or medicham or terrakion or whatever that think they can get a free switch-in. it can especially help you combat cm landorus, as you can pull off the status and then at least stall it out, and is generally useful for chipping away at mons. an option i might consider here is blissey > chansey, which fills much of the same role. you do have clefable and doublade already to check different versions of kyurem-b, and that leftovers recovery could definitely help out in stall wars and reducing the impact of stealth rock/double switches. just a minor idea though, as you said you were already considering it.

going back to the redundancy of mola + rest heal, i would recommend dropping resttalk on doublade. mola heals doublade just fine, rest just makes doublade useless and even more of a sitting duck. you can run double wish (blob + mola) if you really want to ensure that recovery, whatever, i wouldn't but there is the option. i would definitely use rock slide to easily ohko pinsir, which is big because blade is your only real answer to it. for the last move there are two options i'd try out, those being sacred sword and shadow claw. sacred sword would let you hit bisharp switch-ins, while shadow claw gives a more reliable attack for stuff like breaking hera's subs and has actual pp which can be useful. you could also run pursuit, which can dispatch the latis permanently as well as trap a weakened gothitelle which can be a massive pain. it also punishes the likes of cham and gard for switching out of doublade.

lastly, there a few minor optimizations i would make. first, magic coat > protect on mola. i never thought protect was mandatory on alomomola because you so rarely have to stay in and heal, and magic coat can be nice. in this case, it's useful for taunt heatrans (though running blissey > chansey also helps with this problem as the status is less effective at wearing blissey down thanks to leftovers) as well as stallbreaker talonflames. it can bounce back rocks, too, from the likes of ferro, tran, and other stuff to pressure the opponent to defog and aid in keeping it off your side of the field. i recommend an ev spread of 248 HP / 16 Atk / 244 SpD with an adamant nature on doublade. without an attack-boosting nature, doublade is pitifully weak. i don't really have calcs but it basically just hits the first atk jump point with spdef for gard, and allows doublade to hit harder than a wet paper towel, which from my experiences and the experiences of some other people i've told to use this spread is definitely appreciated. finally, taunt > toxic and 80 spe evs on gliscor to help in stalling out opposing gliscor.

good luck, hope i helped with the team!

Thanks for the rate bro! A lot of those suggestions seem really good. I'll get to testing tonight and reply after but in the meanwhile would amoonguss be an acceptable substitute > M Venusaur?

 

[Jukain]

Thanks for the rate bro! A lot of those suggestions seem really good. I'll get to testing tonight and reply after but in the meanwhile would amoonguss be an acceptable substitute > M Venusaur?

i mean it's definitely a good bit worse espec cuz it can't really touch mega scizor and it can't absorb knock offs and it doesn't have the offensive presence and it's shitty vs sub megados...i wouldn't use amoon.

 

[Yamborski]

i mean it's definitely a good bit worse espec cuz it can't really touch mega scizor and it can't absorb knock offs and it doesn't have the offensive presence and it's shitty vs sub megados...i wouldn't use amoon.

Sounds good. In testing Mega Venu is really solid. I was worried about it getting burned by Rotom W but with Toxic on Chansey I guess it doesn't really HAVE to switch in anyway.

Anyhow I tested a bit this morning and today and here is what I've found.

Haze + Rest. on Tentacruel - Sadly this won't work because Tenta isn't quite bulky enough to avoid getting KOed without Sleep Talk.
Skarm > Doublade and Amoonguss > Tenta. - Leaves me wrecked by Gardevoir and even weaker to SD Pinsir and Medicham.

Mega Venu > Tenta - Works fine. Oddly the first three matches I played ran Spike stacking but I ended up winning anyway. I'm not sold on the offensive set yet but it seems to pull its weight quite well.
Magic Guard CM Clefable. > current set. - Also works great, though unless the 80 SA EVs do anything besides help with Chansey I'm just putting them into Defense. 80 SA only 2HKOs Chansey at +6 a small fraction of the time (the damage range is something like 40-51%). Chansey with 252 hp / 252 def is 2HKOed at +6.
Taunt > Toxic on Gliscor and 80 Speed. - Works perfectly and helps negate FUCKING FERROTHORN and dicks Skarmory.
Toxic > Heal Bell on Chansey. - Good. Heal Bell is pretty easy to not need.
Rock Slide + Pursuit > Rest/Talk on Doublade. Maybe. Mega Gard that hits Doublade on the switch in with WoW can basically fuck me on the next switch in with two Hyper Voices. I can keep it healthy with fish's Wishes but it still worries me. It practice it hasn't actually been an issue yet so I'll see where it leads me. I also liked Sleep Talk so it can dick with Breloom, but with Venu on the team this isn't really needed.
Adamant nature for Doublade. Seems like a minor change with those EVs. Impish turns Garchomp EQ into a 2HKO but Adamant guarantees a Pursuit 2HKO on switching Gothitelle.
Magic Coat > Protect. No to this one. Fish is my only counter to a couple dangerous things like DD Mega Gyarados (who Venu only checks), DD TTar, Band Talonflame, Excadrill and a few others who can overpower Wish and do a lot of damage to the rest of the team if I have to pivot out. Protect also stalls Toxic turns and scouts stuff. I like the idea of Magic Coat and it certainly works well but I would need to change my team a bit to have it fit here.
Blissey > Chansey. I'm on the fence. Chansey beats Psyshock and Kyurem B but I also have Lati@s / Kyurem mostly covered by other threats. Loosing less HP overall from passive damage is cool. Blissey also can take on Knock Off Landorus a little better.

So this is what I have now.

Hide

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss

Possibly Blissey > Chansey for Lefties passive damage reduction.

Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed / Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Toxic
- Rock Slide
- Pursuit

Rest + Sleep Talk might go over Rock Slide + Pursuit if WoW Gardevoir is an ass.

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 176 SpD / 80 Spe
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Roost
- Knock Off

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 164 HP / 244 SpA / 100 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Synthesis

Clefable @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Flamethrower
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect

I'll update the team at some point once

 

[Agent Gibbs]

The only thing I don't like about dropping Rest on Doublade is that it makes it easier to wear down with proper offensive pressure. For example, your opponent can bring in Charizard Y on your Alomomola since it doesn't give a crap about Scald and isn't too afraid of Toxic, and now you can't switch Doublade in safely to receive the Wish for fear of a Fire Blast. Pressure like this makes Doublade easier to wear down, whereas if you have Rest, you can heal up whenever needed and not have to rely on being able to make a successful sequence of "switch to Alomomola => use Wish => switch safely to Doublade." The upside is that most ladder players aren't skilled enough to properly apply pressure like that, but you might run into a few that can once you get up to the top of the ladder. Of course, I generally like having Heal Bell support when using this in case you need to wake Doublade up early, and you've obviously dropped that. Then again, while that makes Rest more unreliable, it also makes it a bit more attractive for healing off random burns from stuff like Mega Gardevoir (which you mentioned) since you can no longer heal them with Heal Bell. I think it'd be a good idea to keep Rest somewhere, even without Sleep Talk. It makes Doublade useless for a couple of turns, but you still wall stuff like non-Calm Mind Mega Gardevoir (who you still beat 1-on-1 regardless) and Mega Medicham. This will also free up a moveslot for either Rock Slide or Pursuit, although you'll have to drop one.

That said, you'd really want Heal Bell back, and that sort of clashes with Gliscor so...I don't know. I guess it wouldn't be a big problem if Gliscor didn't like switching into things like Landorus that often carry Knock Off. Of course, you could always run one of my weird sets like the standard stallbreaker Talonflame with no item and Acrobatics > Brave Bird! But then you'd want your Rapid Spin support back and you'd have to make other changes and...you know what, scratch that for now. Just try Rest + 3 Attacks on Doublade and see how it goes. ^_^

 

[Yamborski]

The only thing I don't like about dropping Rest on Doublade is that it makes it easier to wear down with proper offensive pressure. For example, your opponent can bring in Charizard Y on your Alomomola since it doesn't give a crap about Scald and isn't too afraid of Toxic, and now you can't switch Doublade in safely to receive the Wish for fear of a Fire Blast. Pressure like this makes Doublade easier to wear down, whereas if you have Rest, you can heal up whenever needed and not have to rely on being able to make a successful sequence of "switch to Alomomola => use Wish => switch safely to Doublade." The upside is that most ladder players aren't skilled enough to properly apply pressure like that, but you might run into a few that can once you get up to the top of the ladder. Of course, I generally like having Heal Bell support when using this in case you need to wake Doublade up early, and you've obviously dropped that. Then again, while that makes Rest more unreliable, it also makes it a bit more attractive for healing off random burns from stuff like Mega Gardevoir (which you mentioned) since you can no longer heal them with Heal Bell. I think it'd be a good idea to keep Rest somewhere, even without Sleep Talk. It makes Doublade useless for a couple of turns, but you still wall stuff like non-Calm Mind Mega Gardevoir (who you still beat 1-on-1 regardless) and Mega Medicham. This will also free up a moveslot for either Rock Slide or Pursuit, although you'll have to drop one.

That said, you'd really want Heal Bell back, and that sort of clashes with Gliscor so...I don't know. I guess it wouldn't be a big problem if Gliscor didn't like switching into things like Landorus that often carry Knock Off. Of course, you could always run one of my weird sets like the standard stallbreaker Talonflame with no item and Acrobatics > Brave Bird! But then you'd want your Rapid Spin support back and you'd have to make other changes and...you know what, scratch that for now. Just try Rest + 3 Attacks on Doublade and see how it goes. ^_^

It's weird. On paper I agree with you but in practice Doublade hasn't really had trouble being worn down. Then again I'm only playing ladder noobs so who knows. While Rest hasn't been needed Rock Slide / Pursuit also have been useless. I don't think I'll run Rest without Sleep Talk though because Heal Bell hasn't been missed.

 

[Puretrainer]

A physically defensive Amoonguss wouldn't take hits as well as Mega Venu but could beat bulky SD Mega Scizor most of the time. 252 HP / 176 Def / 72 SA / 8 SP def Bold with Spore / Giga Drain / HP Fire / Clear Smog could switch in on bulky Scizor and 2HKO with HP Fire while Sciz 3HKOs back. It could also handle Suicune somewhat (in that it can assist with PP stall though it can't directly win on its own).

The downside is it trades more long term survivability for Knock Off immunity, bulk, and power. I don't see why you couldn't run Amooguss.