Metagame ORAS/XY PU (Serperior Banned)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Holiday

on my best behavior
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus


Malamar has always been one of my favorite Gen 6 pokemon, and his performance in XY PU looks promising. Most of his qualities come from his Ability, Contrary, giving him a boost for every stat drop, and vice versa. The best 3 ways for this are: Sticky Web, giving him a Choice Scarf essentially, Superpower, giving him a Bulk Up, and Defog, giving him +1 Evasion (gimmicky, but still there.) 92 Atk and 73 Spe aren't exactly the best, but when the opportunities arise, he can easily snag a boost to dent the opposition. 86/88/75 Bulk is decent, especially with this typing giving him only two weaknesses. This could merit to a RestTalk Set.

Malamar @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Superpower
- Night Slash/Psycho Cut


Of course, the more popular sets will be the Life Orb attacker and the Choice Scarf sets.

Malamar @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Superpower
- Night Slash
- Psycho Cut
- Taunt/Rock Slide


Malamar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Night Slash
- Psycho Cut
- Switcheroo


Not all is well with Malamar. As previously stated, his stats are just enough to pull of the sets he can run. Despite having only 2 weaknesses, a x4 weakness to Bug is not good, especially with all the U-Turn users in the tier (as well as Megahorn Samurott.) Also, Malamar is pretty dependent on his item, and with Knock Off lurking everywhere, this can definitely limit his synergy with teammates; however, despite these flaws, I can see Malamar being a solid Pokemon should it get moved down to PU.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: trc
The thing that makes my excited the most about Malamar dropping is that PU has very little Fighting-types, with Pangoro and Poliwrath (and maybe Throh) being the most viable. If Malamar gets a chance to get off a Superpower on a weakened Pokemon, it automatically has a STAB Fighting-type attack that raises its Defense. The Bug weakness is annoying but I definitely think that Malamae has the potential to be a a very interesting Pokemon in the metagame. RestTalk seems like its best set but personally I would use Choice Scarf, as it sort of comes off like a Moxie Gyarados or Honchkrow with that snowball effect. A very interesting Pokemon to try in the metagame. The fact that is also preys of Sticky Web AND is a pretty reliable Defog switch-in only serves to make Malamar better.
 

innovamania

WEESNAWW
is a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
As someone who loved PU last gen, I'm ecstatic that it's finally been made for XY. (Even though I didn't find out about it today ;_;) Regardless, from the few games I've played a few Pokemon stick out to me as strong threats in the PU metagame.


Rotom-Frost @ Wide Lens
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Blizzard
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch

Rotom-Frost is a great pokemon in PU at the moment in my opinion. It has a good speed tier and a good base Special attack as well perfect stab Bolt/Beam coverage. Blizzards chance to miss can be a bit saddening at times, but that's why we have Wide Lens. With Wide Lens Blizzard and Thunder get boosted to 77% accuracy which is still pretty poor but it's still better then 70%. This isn't the only set of course, it's just my favorite one. Rotom-Frost can run a good scarf set with Thunderbolt and Trick over Thunder and Will-O-Wisp or even a Choice Specs Set. So to conclude, good speed plus stab Bolt/Beam coverage means Rotom-Frost is definitely a pokemon to watch out for.

[url="http://www.pokestadium.com/pokemon/sprites/"][/URL]
Metang @ Eviolite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Stealth Rock
- Zen Headbutt
- Explosion/Bullet Punch

Metang is one of those pokemon that is severely underrated in PU. It has terrific bulk with Eviolite and a decent base attack stat with the chance for a boost with Meteor Mash. Thanks to the lack of steel types in PU their are few pokemon that resist both Zen Headbutt and Meteor Mash. You can play with the ev's if you wanted to give him more bulk at the cost of some attack power but I like running max HP max attack. With Sneasel having a good chance of rising I believe that Metang will become one of the most common rockers in the tier.


Tauros (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Climb
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt
- Pursuit

Criminally underrated pokemon right here folks. It has the second highest speed in the tier and a solid attack stat as well sheer force to boost the power of it moves further. This is another pokemon that benefits greatly from the lack of steel types. Tauros can tear through weakened teams late game like a hot knife through butter. The only problem with it is a lack of ways to beat ghost types, as Pursuit is laughably weak on opponents that don't switch out. Which is why I think Stone Edge could have a use as a way to beat Drifblim.

So these have just been my thoughts on the tier so far from what I've played. It's an incredibly fun metagame and more people should play it. I'll post more as I play more games.
 
Last edited:
As someone who loved PU last gen, I'm ecstatic that it's finally been made for XY. (Even though I didn't find out about it today ;_;) Regardless, from the few games I've played a few Pokemon stick out to me as strong threats in the PU metagame.


Rotom-Frost @ Wide Lens
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Blizzard
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch

Rotom-Frost is a great pokemon in PU at the moment in my opinion. It has a good speed tier and a good base Special attack as well perfect stab Bolt/Beam coverage. Blizzards chance to miss can be a bit saddening at times, but that's why we have Wide Lens. With Wide Lens Blizzard and Thunder get boosted to 77% accuracy which is still pretty poor but it's still better then 70%. This isn't the only set of course, it's just my favorite one. Rotom-Frost can run a good scarf set with Thunderbolt and Trick over Thunder and Will-O-Wisp or even a Choice Specs Set. So to conclude, good speed plus stab Bolt/Beam coverage means Rotom-Frost is definitely a pokemon to watch out for.


Metang @ Eviolite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Stealth Rock
- Zen Headbutt
- Explosion/Bullet Punch

Metang is one of those pokemon that is severely underrated in PU. It has terrific bulk with Eviolite and a decent base attack stat with the chance for a boost with Meteor Mash. Thanks to the lack of steel types in PU their are few pokemon that resist both Zen Headbutt and Meteor Mash. You can play with the ev's if you wanted to give him more bulk at the cost of some attack power but I like running max HP max attack. With Sneasel having a good chance of rising I believe that Metang will become one of the most common rockers in the tier.


Tauros (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Climb
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt
- Pursuit

Criminally underrated pokemon right here folks. It has the second highest speed in the tier and a solid attack stat as well sheer force to boost the power of it moves further. This is another pokemon that benefits greatly from the lack of steel types. Tauros can tear through weakened teams late game like a hot knife through butter. The only problem with it is a lack of ways to beat ghost types, as Pursuit is laughably weak on opponents that don't switch out. Which is why I think Stone Edge could have a use as a way to beat Drifblim.

So these have just been my thoughts on the tier so far from what I've played. It's an incredibly fun metagame and more people should play it. I'll post more as I play more games.
Metang for top tier once Sneasel leaves. If it can keep it's Eviolite most of the time (or at least avoid it from something as strong as Sneasel) it'll be one of the better things in the tier

Also fuck Tauros. Really though, this thing DECIMATES offense. It's ridiculously hard hitting and unless you carry Sneasel, gl hf revenging it
 
Well, the metagame is kinda dead, at least until the end of the month, when the tier shifts will occur.
It's been really hard to get matches in showdown/irc, but I will post some replays I've had, even though most of them aren't great matches.
Some 'mons that have yet been much mentioned, hopefully this will spark discussion :
- Sitting at a great speed tier at 110 and having mixed 90 attacks, this thing is very versatile. NastyPlot\STAB\Grass Knot is enough to sweep late game, while the same set can wear down early/mid game with Volt Switch. His physical movepool isn't lacking with Volt Tackle/Wild Charge, Knock Off, ExtremeSpeed so all choice items seems valid. Also having acess to interesting to check tools like Wish, Encore, Agility, Focus Blast, Signal Beam and Magnet Rise.
- I had in thought to use Swanna, in order to deal with Samurrot but I have yet faced this match-up. Resisting it's STABS, Megahorn and neutral to grass types this bird seems on paper like a good answer to the omnipresent otter. It also has acess to the coveted Defog and usefull tools in Scald and Roost.
- Between 80 base speed Taunt, Spikes and Explosion, Glalie is a worse Froslass which makes it great suicide lead for PU. It also has 80/80/80 bulk which may let it forfiet Sash for Lefties and maybe even live to set spikes again.

Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-155424232
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-155644228
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-155651380
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-155656316
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-155657758
 

WhiteDMist

Path>Goal
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Yeah, I've been inactive the past week due to irl stuff, but for now we are waiting intensely for September for the official usage stats. Until then, I would like to hear everyone's experiences with Sneasel. It is one of the most dangerous offensive threats in the metagame, and it currently has only one dedicated counter in Poliwrath (there might be more, but it is the most viable). While there are no guarantees that Sneasel will be around in September, or that the metagame will not shift drastically, I would like to know what people think about it. Sneasel is a suspect worthy Pokemon in several eyes already, but more thoughts leads to a better grasp of the situation.
 
Yeah, Sneasel is pretty hard to deal with. Basically, it's such a threat that I feel like I have to use Sticky Web on every team that I don't use Poliwrath on (which is like all of them lol, mostly because of Sneasel) with its 115 Speed which lets it outspeed every relevant Pokemon in the entire tier (except maybe like Zebstrika but no one uses that because Raichu is usually better), STAB Knock Off that lets it cripple its only "safe" switch-ins by removing their items. By the way, other than Poliwrath, there are no relevant Pokemon in the tier that aren't outsped and 2HKOed by standard 4 attacks Sneasel with only SR up without a physically defensive spread (and no, Carbink is not relevant). Also it gets SD because lol why not. So yeah, Sneasel is pretty ridiculous and definitely one of the top threats in the tier.

Anyway, I want to talk about another Dark-type which hasn't really recieved much attention as of yet: Pangoro. I've only used the Choice Band set as of now, but it's pretty ridiculously strong. CB Pangoro basically 2HKOes the entire tier with a bit of prediction, and if you don't want to predict it has the godlike Parting Shot which lets you just pivot out of stuff. Some calcs:

252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Pangoro Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 136-162 (40.7 - 48.5%) -- 67.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Togetic: 186-220 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Pangoro Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 232-274 (60.4 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garbodor: 169-201 (46.4 - 55.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Pangoro Hammer Arm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Samurott: 357-421 (107.5 - 126.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So yeah, panda is pretty strongth. Has anyone else had any experience with it?
 
Well, the metagame is kinda dead, at least until the end of the month, when the tier shifts will occur.
It's been really hard to get matches in showdown/irc, but I will post some replays I've had, even though most of them aren't great matches.
Some 'mons that have yet been much mentioned, hopefully this will spark discussion :
- Sitting at a great speed tier at 110 and having mixed 90 attacks, this thing is very versatile. NastyPlot\STAB\Grass Knot is enough to sweep late game, while the same set can wear down early/mid game with Volt Switch. His physical movepool isn't lacking with Volt Tackle/Wild Charge, Knock Off, ExtremeSpeed so all choice items seems valid. Also having acess to interesting to check tools like Wish, Encore, Agility, Focus Blast, Signal Beam and Magnet Rise.
- I had in thought to use Swanna, in order to deal with Samurrot but I have yet faced this match-up. Resisting it's STABS, Megahorn and neutral to grass types this bird seems on paper like a good answer to the omnipresent otter. It also has acess to the coveted Defog and usefull tools in Scald and Roost.
- Between 80 base speed Taunt, Spikes and Explosion, Glalie is a worse Froslass which makes it great suicide lead for PU. It also has 80/80/80 bulk which may let it forfiet Sash for Lefties and maybe even live to set spikes again.

Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-155424232
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-155644228
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-155651380
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-155656316
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-155657758
The best way to get some discussion about the meta is probably by going on #pu tbh. A few council members are almost always sitting on there. Plus, a lot of people on the other metagames room tend to look. Just keep an eye out.

Anyways, on the subject of Sneasel, NU TAKE IT PLEASE
This thing hits SO hard. It can basically shut down the entire relevant tier barring Poliwrath (which isn't THAT easy to fit onto most teams, as offense tends to use SubPunch which gets worn down quickly by sneasel anyways). It outspeeds everything at base barring Ninjask (dont) and basically hurts several good pokemon just with it's mere existance (see mushy not being s, Metang being mediocre, etc.) I like the metagame now, but once Sneasel leaves I'll be much happier (or i'll think mushy is broken. either or)
 
I don't think anyone disagrees that Sneasel is a powerful Pokemon at the moment; its great Speed, impressive power, Knock Off, and nice STAB combination lend itself to being a top threat in the metagame. The only real solid counter is Poliwrath, and it loses its Leftovers and doesn't fit on all team archetypes. After the tier shift, if Sneasel isn't gone and I have used it thoroughly on the ladder, then I will determine its outcome. I am not sure that overtime with more games played, playing around Sneasel will be easier. There are many Pokemon that have no offensive switch-ins in OU, an example being Mega Heracross. That doesn't make it broken, as it ieasily revenge killable. However, Sneasel's high Speed makes revenge killing an option. When considering a ban, I will take into account how difficult it is to revenge kill, and I will also take into account how Knock Off reduces the effectiveness against other Pokemon. I am not convinced it is broken just yet though, I feel there hasn't been enough time to play with it and that there are ways of playing around Sneasel which haven't risen to popularity yet. I am not saying it isn't broken, far from that, and I definitely believe it is suspect worthy, but I'm not fully convinced either way yet. Its power isn't all that impressive against defensive teams (coming far from KOing a standard Musharna with a 97.5 BP STAB super effective move), which typically run Poliwrath and a number of other decent checks as well, and it wears itself down with Life Orb + Stealth Rock plus the presence of Spikes / Toxic Spikes which are ridiculously common. Sneasel struggles against Sticky Web offense as well, the only playstyle which is really threatened by it is offense, which should have decent enough killers (Choice Scarf users), but I feel like the high Speed makes switching into it problematic and so these revenge killers can't just freely switch in (things like Zebstrika would be destroyed by Knock Off + Ice Shard). I'm still not convinced it's broken yet though. Convince me.
 
I don't think anyone disagrees that Sneasel is a powerful Pokemon at the moment; its great Speed, impressive power, Knock Off, and nice STAB combination lend itself to being a top threat in the metagame. The only real solid counter is Poliwrath, and it loses its Leftovers and doesn't fit on all team archetypes. After the tier shift, if Sneasel isn't gone and I have used it thoroughly on the ladder, then I will determine its outcome. I am not sure that overtime with more games played, playing around Sneasel will be easier. There are many Pokemon that have no offensive switch-ins in OU, an example being Mega Heracross. That doesn't make it broken, as it ieasily revenge killable. However, Sneasel's high Speed makes revenge killing an option. When considering a ban, I will take into account how difficult it is to revenge kill, and I will also take into account how Knock Off reduces the effectiveness against other Pokemon. I am not convinced it is broken just yet though, I feel there hasn't been enough time to play with it and that there are ways of playing around Sneasel which haven't risen to popularity yet. I am not saying it isn't broken, far from that, and I definitely believe it is suspect worthy, but I'm not fully convinced either way yet. Its power isn't all that impressive against defensive teams (coming far from KOing a standard Musharna with a 97.5 BP STAB super effective move), which typically run Poliwrath and a number of other decent checks as well, and it wears itself down with Life Orb + Stealth Rock plus the presence of Spikes / Toxic Spikes which are ridiculously common. Sneasel struggles against Sticky Web offense as well, the only playstyle which is really threatened by it is offense, which should have decent enough killers (Choice Scarf users), but I feel like the high Speed makes switching into it problematic and so these revenge killers can't just freely switch in (things like Zebstrika would be destroyed by Knock Off + Ice Shard). I'm still not convinced it's broken yet though. Convince me.
While Sneasel is easily worn down by Spikes, don't forget that Sneasel also benefits quite a bit from hazards itself, letting it wear down Poliwrath quite a bit more easily, Also, it's easy to pair Sneasel with something that takes advantage of Poliwrath and physically defensive Garbodor, such as pivot Musharna. And I disagree that Sneasel only threatens offense, user: Robert Alfons has been running stall and finds it very problematic (and again forces him to run Poliwrath on basically every team). Also, while Sticky Web makes it a lot easier to handle, Sticky Web isn't really that hard to keep from going up thanks to fast Taunt users such as Timid Taunt Samurott, Taunt CM Serperior, and Taunt Dodrio, all of which shut Kricketune down quite easily. Additonally, there do exist a couple of good offensive Defoggers, particularly Life Orb Swanna. Overall, while it's not impossible to stop Sneasel, the limited means you have of doing so on any type of team make it a bit ridiculous to deal with.
 

scorpdestroyer

it's a skorupi egg
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
usage stats got released, here's the new PU list:

| 62 | Bouffalant | 3.289% |
| 63 | Barbaracle | 3.275% |
| 64 | Altaria | 3.204% |
| 65 | Chatot | 3.129% |
| 66 | Mantine | 3.091% |
| 67 | Avalugg | 2.968% |
| 68 | Togetic | 2.927% |
| 69 | Garbodor | 2.923% |
| 70 | Flareon | 2.896% |
| 71 | Poliwrath | 2.844% |
| 72 | Tauros | 2.841% |
| 73 | Lickilicky | 2.833% |
| 74 | Haunter | 2.802% |
| 75 | Ditto | 2.716% |
| 76 | Ninetales | 2.705% |
| 77 | Articuno | 2.625% |
| 78 | Gourgeist-Super | 2.599% |
| 79 | Scyther | 2.599% |
| 80 | Golem | 2.566% |
| 81 | Leavanny | 2.517% |
| 82 | Raichu | 2.504% |
| 83 | Dusknoir | 2.370% |
| 84 | Carracosta | 2.357% |
| 85 | Camerupt | 2.294% |
| 86 | Floatzel | 2.275% |
| 87 | Dusclops | 2.157% |
| 88 | Tangela | 2.116% |
| 89 | Rampardos | 2.032% |
| 90 | Luxray | 2.025% |
| 91 | Kecleon | 1.901% |
| 92 | Basculin | 1.876% |
| 93 | Gogoat | 1.837% |
| 94 | Throh | 1.827% |
| 95 | Kadabra | 1.819% |
| 96 | Electrode | 1.818% |
| 97 | Beheeyem | 1.812% |
| 98 | Ursaring | 1.809% |
| 99 | Lumineon | 1.779% |
| 100 | Torterra | 1.748% |
| 101 | Piloswine | 1.742% |
| 102 | Musharna | 1.712% |
| 103 | Kingler | 1.707% |
| 104 | Mr. Mime | 1.689% |
| 105 | Dodrio | 1.675% |
| 106 | Bastiodon | 1.627% |
| 107 | Ariados | 1.614% |
| 108 | Lapras | 1.602% |
| 109 | Rotom-Frost | 1.553% |
| 110 | Arbok | 1.544% |
| 111 | Drifblim | 1.542% |
| 112 | Pelipper | 1.511% |
| 113 | Grumpig | 1.496% |
| 114 | Sneasel | 1.455% |
| 115 | Glaceon | 1.448% |
| 116 | Rapidash | 1.445% |
| 117 | Marowak | 1.419% |
| 118 | Aurorus | 1.371% |
| 119 | Regice | 1.360% |
| 120 | Frogadier | 1.336% |
| 121 | Victreebel | 1.332% |
| 122 | Meowstic | 1.320% |
| 123 | Combusken | 1.281% |
| 124 | Furfrou | 1.265% |
| 125 | Ninjask | 1.214% |
| 126 | Carbink | 1.212% |
| 127 | Stoutland | 1.204% |
| 128 | Slaking | 1.187% |
| 129 | Meganium | 1.143% |
| 130 | Gigalith | 1.142% |
| 131 | Wartortle | 1.101% |
| 132 | Linoone | 1.087% |
| 133 | Sawsbuck | 1.065% |
| 134 | Swoobat | 1.048% |
| 135 | Serperior | 1.043% |
| 136 | Electabuzz | 1.028% |
+ ---- + --------------- + ------- +


PU banlist:
Accelgor, Archeops, Armaldo, Audino, Cacturne, Cradily, Crustle, Cryogonal, Dragalge, Electivire, Exeggutor, Feraligatr, Ferroseed, Golurk, Gorebyss, Granbull, Gurdurr, Hariyama, Jynx, Kangaskhan, Klinklang, Lanturn, Leafeon, Liepard, Lilligant, Ludicolo, Magmortar, Malamar, Mesprit, Miltank, Mismagius, Muk, Omastar, Pangoro, Pawniard, Primeape, Probopass, Pyroar, Qwilfish, Regirock, Rhydon, Rotom, Rotom-Fan, Samurott, Sandslash, Sawk, Sceptile, Seismitoad, Shiftry, Slurpuff, Spiritomb, Steelix, Swellow, Torkoal, Typhlosion, Uxie, Vileplume, Vivillon, Weezing, Xatu, Zangoose

I'll post my thoughts tomorrow, but here we go :)

(i bolded the new bans from memory but it's late so correct me if im wrong)
 
Last edited:
So it looks like Muk, Lickilicky, Haunter, Gourgeist-Super, and Combusken have moved down to PU if I interpreted the usage statistics correctly
 

WhiteDMist

Path>Goal
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Well, this is an interesting first official Tier List! We've lost some Pokemon that were in the preliminary stats, notably Samurott, Lilligant, Leafeon, Pangoro, and Exeggutor. I think we've gained only Lickilicky, Haunter, and Gourgeist-Super. What are everyone's thoughts on what this new metagame will look like? Personally I am heartbroken at losing Samurott, as it was just so good at being an unpredictable threat. I also wish I had more time with Leafeon as well, as there was so much potential that was yet to be discovered.

Sneasel remains in PU. PU hasn't gained anything that can counter it, though I suppose Lickilicky can check it. As Sneasel was considered pretty dangerous before, what will it be like now?

scorpdestroyer Thank you for posting the usage stats here! :heart: I do believe that Cradily, Jynx, Miltank, and Primeape were still NU before, so we did not lose them.

DopestDope Muk is NU unfortunately. Combusken dropped in the usage stats because it was banned from NU. That means it is also banned from PU.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Until Sneasel is gone, the Haunter and Gourgeist drops mean almost nothing. Seeing Samurott leave is a bummer, too, because like WhiteDMist said it was very versatile and viable. Pangoro was getting more notice for its hard-hitting sets and the unique utility it had in Parting Shot--I'm not surprised NU stole it.

In terms of Sneasel, that thing will continue to dominate. Is Monferno a good counter? Does it offer anything else beyond scaring Sneasel?
 
I ran an interesting defensive Monferno similar to the defensive infernape in this RMT that is pretty much a full check to Sneasel. It can burn things, it has recovery in slack off, as well as hitting decently hard without investment due to the high base power of it's moves. You can even run enough speed to outspeed Kricketune and taunt it before it gets webs up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EV
The most saddening rises to me are Leafeon and Torkoal. Leafeon was just very good, decently versitale and balanced top threat imo. Torkoal, although not too good, was a spinner in a tier where spinners are scarce meaning mainly defoggers are the hazard controlers. Samurrot in my opinion, mainly due to his great power and coverage from both spectrums, was kinda broken and it's good he's gone.

Will PU's tier banlist be updated each month ?
 
Monferno really isn't that great outside of beating Sneasel and Taunting Kricketune to be honest, I'd much rather just use Poliwrath (which is going to be godlike with Lilligant, Exeggutor, and Leafeon gone), and even then, Monferno just gets its Eviolite Knocked Off, so Sneasel is still getting the best of that matchup, since Monferno is easy af to switch into.

Will post full thoughts about each of the mons that rose and fell later, but the Water-types that didn't leave are going to go from being really good to being metagame-defining (you could argue that they were already).

Edit: Regarding Sneasel, it beats all of the drops incredibly well (Lickilicky is really fat so it's probably 2HKOed by Low Kick, can't check right now), one of like 3 viable switch-ins to it in physically defensive Torkoal moved up, and the only way it got worse is the fact that 3 really solid checks to Poliwrath moved up, so it will get more common (it was on like over half of all good teams even before the tier shift lol, so it doesn't really matter that much)

EDIT 2: We also lost Cacturne, no one has pointed that out yet (probably because it's Cacturne)
 
Last edited:
Robert Alfons probably has a massive boner over Lickilicky, considering he's been hyping stall a lot. It's pretty bulky, decent ability in Oblivious, and i think it has the highest hp wish.

Haunter and Geist are somewhat irrelevant until something (if anything does ofc) happens to Sneasel. Haunter will be a pretty functional TrickScarfer, and geist walls the smashers and poliwrath so thats cool I guess.

Since I brought up the Smashers (ofc those being Carracosta and Barbaracle), they got a HELL of a lot better with this shift. Three of their hardest counters in Leafeon, Liligant, and Eggy just left. This basically makes the entire tier just bend over and take it from them. Whoever was hyping Serperior earlier (Rob again i think) should be very happy since it just lost most of its competition xD
 
Robert Alfons probably has a massive boner over Lickilicky, considering he's been hyping stall a lot. It's pretty bulky, decent ability in Oblivious, and i think it has the highest hp wish.

Haunter and Geist are somewhat irrelevant until something (if anything does ofc) happens to Sneasel. Haunter will be a pretty functional TrickScarfer, and geist walls the smashers and poliwrath so thats cool I guess.

Since I brought up the Smashers (ofc those being Carracosta and Barbaracle), they got a HELL of a lot better with this shift. Three of their hardest counters in Leafeon, Liligant, and Eggy just left. This basically makes the entire tier just bend over and take it from them. Whoever was hyping Serperior earlier (Rob again i think) should be very happy since it just lost most of its competition xD
Now that I think about it, Gourgeist-Super actually seems really good in this meta. While Sneasel is stupid to it, it can burn it on the switch. It's also a pretty hard counter to all of Poliwrath, physical Carracosta, Barbaracle, Bouffalant, and non-Fire Blast Tauros. That's like half the top threats in the meta right there. Granted, we did have the other 3 Gourgeists before, but Gourgeist-Super is a direct step up from Gourgeist-Large, and the meta changes bar Haunter dropping were all extremely kind to it.

Also just in general, being wrecked by Sneasel isn't really that big of a deal since like 75% of the entire tier is wrecked by Sneasel lol
 

Holiday

on my best behavior
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Monferno really isn't that great outside of beating Sneasel and Taunting Kricketune to be honest, I'd much rather just use Poliwrath (which is going to be godlike with Lilligant, Exeggutor, and Leafeon gone), and even then, Monferno just gets its Eviolite Knocked Off, so Sneasel is still getting the best of that matchup, since Monferno is easy af to switch into.

Will post full thoughts about each of the mons that rose and fell later, but the Water-types that didn't leave are going to go from being really good to being metagame-defining (you could argue that they were already).

Edit: Regarding Sneasel, it beats all of the drops incredibly well (Lickilicky is really fat so it's probably 2HKOed by Low Kick, can't check right now), one of like 3 viable switch-ins to it in physically defensive Torkoal moved up, and the only way it got worse is the fact that 3 really solid checks to Poliwrath moved up, so it will get more common (it was on like over half of all good teams even before the tier shift lol, so it doesn't really matter that much)

EDIT 2: We also lost Cacturne, no one has pointed that out yet (probably because it's Cacturne)
Cacturne was my offensive spiker on my sand team ;n;
 
Last edited:
This tier shift was very interesting.

We lost Samurott, the best Pokemon and attacker in the tier, Leafeon, Lilligant, and Exeggutor, all powerful offensive Grass-types that fit on Sun teams, Pangoro which I'd have liked to have tested more but was one of the only relevant Fighting-types in the tier, Cacturne, a good Spiker and priority attacker, and Torkoal, a Rapid Spinner. Our gains give us two excellent spinblockers and a nice special wall. I think this'll be an interesting metagame for sure. Sneasel is getting quote ridiculous at this point though so I think it's time for something to be done. Other than that, a ladder should be up soon, and after a week or so of testing, we can get some viability rankings.

I'd like some discussion about Sun, with 3 of the main Sun threats gone, Sun teams will be more varied and can use Pokemon that cover the flaws of Sun rather than just slamming on every great Chlorophyll abuser.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top