Garbodor [QC 1/3]

Taken over from user: scorpdestroyer

QC: scorpdestroyer / /
GP: /


Overview
########

+ Solid check to Fairy-, Fighting-, and Grass-types.
+ Solid spiker that has access to the two different formes of entry hazards.
+ Good ability in Aftermath, as it leaves a last mark on the opponent when hit by contact.
+ Decent bulk on the overall.
- Because Garbodor lacking reliable recovery, it gets worn down quite easily by all Pokemon it can check.
- Limited options in its movepool.

Spikes
########
name: Spikes
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Gunk Shot
move 3: Drain Punch
move 4: Toxic Spikes / Toxic
ability: Aftermath
item: Rocky Helmet
evs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
nature: Impish

Moves
========

  • Spikes limits switches, and helps teammates to KO an opponent easier.
  • Gunk Shot is a powerful STAB move that deals a lot of damage to anything that doesn't resist it.
  • Drain Punch grants coverage and can stop Pokemon such as Klinklang from using Substitute or Pawniard from setting up Swords Dance.
  • Toxic Spikes wears down offensive teams by damaging them every turn, limiting their longevity.
  • Toxic is an option that hits bulky Pokemon, especially Ground- and Psychic-types, as these will be switching in more likely.
  • Seed Bomb is a coverage option, for example against Ground and Water-types such as Rhydon, Kabutops and Seismitoad,that are pretty common in the tier. This can replace either Toxic Spikes or Gunk Shot. However, it is kinda frail since it gets no STAB from the attack and still does little damage against Rhydon.
  • Pain Split is a way Garbodor can recover, as long as it has less HP than the opponent where it's against on.
  • Clear Smog is used to prevent the opponent from setting up properly, but can be replaced with Haze as it goes through Substitute.


Set Details
========

  • The EVs invested in HP and Defense in combination with an Impish nature add up to Garbodor's decent bulk.
  • 96 Speed allows Garbodor to outrun Pokemon with maxed Speed at a base stat of 55, such as Cacturne and Exeggutor.
  • Aftermath makes Garbodor capable of leaving a last mark when the opponent kills it with a contact move.
  • Rocky Helmet hurts any opponent using contact moves everytime they use as well'
  • Black Sludge can be used to recover Garbodor a little bit and puts the hurt on non-Poison types who can use Trick or Switcheroo.
  • Garbodor can also run a Specially Defensive set, that handles Pokemon such as Calm Mind Slurpuff or Grass-types better, with 252 HP / 160 SpD / 96 Spe invested and a Careful nature.

Usage Tips
========

  • Garbodor can be switched into contact moves that don't affect it much, U-turn users, for example, get punished by the damage given by Rocky Helmet.
  • To deal extra damage, you can also sacrifice Garbodor to activate Aftermath and Rocky Helmet when a physical threats goes out of control and inflicts a lot of recoil.
  • Make sure to set up Spikes when forcing a Pokemon to switch, also set up hazards if Garbodor is given a free turn.
  • If Garbodor is running Seed Bomb, it is capable of doing a decent amount of damage against most Water-type Pokemon such as Seismitoad and Kabutops.
  • When facing a Pokemon that doesn't resist Poison and is capable of setting up, use Gunk Shot to limitedly allow it to set up if Clear Smog or Haze is not being ran.
  • Drain Punch is good against setup Pokemon that are weak against it, the main one being Pawniard.
  • Threaten bulky Ground- and Psychic-types by using Toxic when predicting them to come in, then directly switch out of them.
  • Use Toxic Spikes to wear down offensive teams and to wear down Rapid Spin users, as well as force the opponent to play carefully with grounded Poison as well as putting them on the pressure along with teammates.
  • If Garbodor is running Seed Bomb, it is capable of doing a decent amount of damage against most Water-type Pokemon such as Seismitoad and Kabutops.
  • Pain Split the opponent if the opponent has around full health and Garbodor's haalth is getting a bit low.
  • When the opponent is setting up, use Clear Smog or Haze, depending on what one you run, to remove the stat boosts.

Team Options
========

  • Spinblockers will make good partners, such as Mismagius, Gourgeist, and Rotom, as the set up hazards won't be removed this way.
  • Pokemon that threaten Defog users, such as Pawniard, Taunt Mismagius, and Archeops, can easily pressure them with and discourage them from using the move.
  • Offensively-inclined allies that can take advantage of the hazards in order to get off a KO earlier, such as Mismagius, Kangaskhan and Feraligatr, will be good teammates.
  • Bulky Pokemon that take care of bulky Psychic-type Pokemon, such as Pangoro and Pawniard, will be good partners as Garbodor can't do much against these Pokemon.
  • Teammates with good defensive synergy are good as well, especially Seismitoad, as it is capable of setting up Stealth Rock and checks a lot of Pokemon that Garbodor struggles against.


Other Options
########

  • Weak Armor and Focus Sash allows Garbodor to prevent being OHKOed, and may raise it Speed after. An offensive set could be used along with these options, however, Garbodor's offensive power is bad.
  • Rock Blast hits Pokemon for neutral coverage and also hits Ninjask, Scyther and Vivillon pretty effectively.
  • Giga Drain hits physically defensive Pokemon better, such as Rhydon.
  • Explosion has terrifying base power but isn't really worth it as Garbodor should only use it when it's done setting up.

Checks & Counters
########

**Taunt users** Pokemon with Taunt can really wear down Garbodor, especially users that resist Garbodor's attacking options, such as Mismiagus and Archeops, as it completely stops it from setting up hazards, what is Garbodor's main use.

**Xatu** Xatu can bounce all entry hazards back and can quickly get rid of Garbodor with a Psychic attack.

**Bulky Psychic-types** Bulky Psychic-typed Pokemon that can take hits without effort, such as Musharna and Uxie, have no problems taking Garbodor down.

**Bulky Ground-types** Bulky Ground-type Pokemon that can take a hit, such as Rhydon, Golurk, and Sandslash, can take a hit from Garbodor and KO it with Earthquake.
 
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soulgazer

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defensive spikes @ helmet plz
This.

Entry Hazards
########
name: Entry Hazards
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Toxic Spikes / Seed Bomb
move 3: Gunk Shot / Seed Bomb
move 4: Drain Punch
ability: Aftermath
item: Rocky Helmet
evs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
nature: Impish

Speed is to outspeed neutral Max Speed base 55s.

I also think the Focus Sash lead set should only be in OO. it has a >>small<< niche, which is weak armor + toxic spikes.. which honestly isn't really needed most of the time lol. it faces a lot of competition from all the leads in the tier, especially Qwilfish, which has access to Taunt (which is way better than having Weak Armor).

Politoed
 
iirc, in last gen's NU, Giga Drain was considered a better option than Seed Bomb on defensive Garbo, because even with a hindering nature, it hits pretty much everything you would use Seed Bomb for harder. I don't know if this is still the case, but it seems like it'd be better for shit like Rhydon, Seismitoad, Omastar, etc.
 
iirc, in last gen's NU, Giga Drain was considered a better option than Seed Bomb on defensive Garbo, because even with a hindering nature, it hits pretty much everything you would use Seed Bomb for harder. I don't know if this is still the case, but it seems like it'd be better for shit like Rhydon, Seismitoad, Omastar, etc.
It hits harder,but does the same as drain punch...idk
 
I'm really not convinced that Drain Punch is a good option for defensive Garbo. As a non-STAB 75 BP move coming from an uninvested attack stat, it's going to be doing very, very little to anything even remotely bulky, and it'll heal you even less. In fact, even when Drain Punch is super-effective, it's still outdamaged by Gunk Shot by a significant margin:

0 Atk Garbodor Drain Punch vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Bouffalant: 110-130 (29.4 - 34.7%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Garbodor Gunk Shot vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Bouffalant: 129-153 (34.4 - 40.9%) -- 52.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

On the other hand, Giga Drain is actually effective because there are so many threats to Garbodor in particular that are 4x weak to it (and that resist Gunk Shot). So I'd say Drain Punch and Seed Bomb should both be removed:

Spikes
Toxic Spikes
Gunk Shot
Giga Drain / Toxic

Or something like that? Maybe Rock Blast as a slash?
 
I calced a bit, and Giga Drain isn't the greatest either. I took standard sets for the defending Pokemon

0 SpA Garbodor Giga Drain vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 84-100 (25.8 - 30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Garbodor Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sandslash: 116-138 (32.7 - 38.9%) -- 6.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Garbodor Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Politoed: 52-62 (13.5 - 16.1%) -- possible 7HKO

But, besides it also's got good points;

0 SpA Garbodor Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 180-216 (43.4 - 52.1%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Garbodor Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 128-152 (30.9 - 36.7%) -- 56.2% chance to 3HKO

Talking about Drain Punch, it isn't the greatest, but still one of the best options for a fourth attack.

I wouldn't mention Toxic, because you already have Toxic Spikes. That poisons any incoming Pokémon anyway.
 
Yeah, there aren't a ton of good options. Giga Drain is definitely only usable for a select few pokes, but they happen to be pokes that are very important to be able to deal with. Most of the targets you mentioned, such as Feraligatr and Politoed, would be hit just as hard by Gunk Shot anyway, but Giga Drain takes care of the likes of Rhydon, which Gunk Shot won't scratch. Now that I think about it, the use of Drain Punch is primarily to hit Steel-types which are immune to Gunk Shot, so it might be worth a slash despite how shitty it seems. Toxic has some use, firstly if you choose to forgo Toxic Spikes, and secondly because Toxic Spikes won't poison levitators and fliers, and they won't poison switch-ins if they're not up yet. It's arguably more useful than Garbo's other options. Rock Blast works similarly in hitting fliers, but it punishes Substitute users, and it's a good complement to Drain Punch if you opt to use both over Gunk Shot. That deserves a mention somewhere. But anyway, given all of that, what makes the most sense to me, disregarding the advice of past Fizz, is Spikes | Toxic Spikes / Toxic | Gunk Shot | Drain Punch / Giga Drain. I'm not QC so ignore me if I'm not helping.

Edit: Also Pain Split is a pretty decent option for defensive Garbo so mention it somewhere.
 
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Yeah, there aren't a ton of good options. Giga Drain is definitely only usable for a select few pokes, but they happen to be pokes that are very important to be able to deal with. Most of the targets you mentioned, such as Feraligatr and Politoed, would be hit just as hard by Gunk Shot anyway, but Giga Drain takes care of the likes of Rhydon, which Gunk Shot won't scratch. Now that I think about, the use of Drain Punch is primarily to hit Steel-types which are immune to Gunk Shot, so it might be worth a slash despite how shitty it seems. Toxic has some use, firstly if you choose to forgo Toxic Spikes, and secondly because Toxic Spikes won't poison levitators and fliers, and they won't poison switch-ins if they're not up yet. It's arguably more useful than Garbo's other options. Rock Blast works similarly in hitting fliers, but it punishes Substitute users, and it's a good complement to Drain Punch if you opt to use both over Gunk Shot. That deserves a mention somewhere. But anyway, given all of that, what makes the most sense to me, disregarding the advice of past Fizz, is Spikes | Toxic Spikes / Toxic | Gunk Shot | Drain Punch / Giga Drain. I'm not QC so ignore me if I'm not helping.

Edit: Also Pain Split is a pretty decent option for defensive Garbo so mention it somewhere.
Pain Split works terrible for me. I won't give it a mention unless QC, but thanks for the hlep.
 

soulgazer

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Fizz Drain Punch is used so that Garbodor can deal with Pawniard, Probopass, and can break Substitute from Klinklang, among other things. Drain Punch is good.

Using Giga Drain is honestly not worth it in my experience, Seed Bomb does similar damage and Garbodor won't need to use a Nature that decrease its Special Defense.

Anyway, looking back I think Seed Bomb/Giga Drain should only be mentionned in Moves as they are situational, unlike the other moves. I would also mention Toxic in Moves. Add Clear Smog and Haze in Moves too.

Remove Haze + Focus Sash from OO, wth is that lol

Politoed
 
Offensive life orb set with spikes anyone? An adamant seed bomb with life orb ohkoed physically defensive seismitoad
 
Yeah, LO ain't worth it. What sets Garbodor apart from the likes of Accelgor and Cacturne is its solid bulk and decent defensive typing. You don't want to ruin that by using Life Orb. Garbodor is too slow to make use of it effectively.
 

scorpdestroyer

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Overview:
- your overview focuses too much on Garbodor's traits, rather than its roles. it needs to expand on garbo's role: it's a solid spikes setter, good pivot
- dont need to mention what bulk it has, mention instead what it can take hits from

I think the set should be:

Spikes
########
name: Spikes
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Gunk Shot
move 3: Toxic Spikes / Toxic
move 4: Drain Punch / Toxic
ability: Aftermath
item: Rocky Helmet
evs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
nature: Impish

I know Soulgazer suggested another set, but I'd like to offer this alternative. I think Toxic is pretty good because it allows Garbodor to catch a lot of things on the switch and wear them down even more than other moves can. For example, catching Uxie or Rhydon on the switch with Toxic can be really helpful for the team. Also, I feel that Seed Bomb is a bit more of a situational coverage move. In addition it's also quite weak, for example not even 2HKOing Rhydon, Feraligatr and Seismitoad, and for Rhydon and Seismitoad they can be hit by Toxic too. Seed Bomb can go under Moves though, because it's decent, just not good enough to be on the main set imo.

Moves:
- toxic spikes don't really stop stallers cos stall teams usually can deal with tspikes. it is mostly to wear down offensive teams.
- spikes wears down bulky opponents too in addition to grabbing KOs, this can be quite useful to wear down bulky stuff with no recovery for sweepers
- remove giga drain, seed bomb is better most of the time
- add pain split
- add clear smog
- move seed bomb here, mention that it is still a little weak vs stuff like gatr and rhydon

usage tips:
- its not suicide lead... Garbodor fares pretty badly against other leads and it's very useful to conserve for midgame things.
- you should save it for stuff like fighting-types, kanga, physical attackers, fairys because helmet + aftermath hurts
- mention how you would lay your hazards vs different teams. For example vs stall teams you would spam Spikes unless they have no grounded poison, while against offense you would only lay down 1 layer of tspikes

team options:
- add more stuff with decent synergy, eg. stuff that kill psychics etc
- state examples of spinblockers
- state examples of offensive mons that benefit from Spikes

checks and counters:
- bulky psychic types are probably one of garbo's biggest counters, please add it here :o
- add bulky ground types
 

scorpdestroyer

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overview:
- mention that it faces competition from stuff like qwil
- dont mention rest, just say it gets no recovery

moves:
- spikes doesn't really deal with bulky pokemon, the way it's written sounds like simply laying down spikes finishes them off, and obviously it's not that easy. maybe change it to limit switching, wearing down stuff and making it easier for teammates to KO stuff
- toxic helps because it hits bulky stuff on the switch and wears them down, make sure you mention that

usage tips:
- talk about how it should set up spikes and toxic spikes depending on opposing teams
- it isnt just limited to switching into fighting-types. it can switch into predicted u-turns, into fairys, kanga, etc and can also stop a physical sweeper as an emergency

team options:
- teammates with good synergy please... for instance mention examples of bulky grass-types as they deal with ground-types, or you could mention stuff like pawniard for checking psychic types
 

Blast

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Add Black Sludge in Set Details, it's a good item choice if you need to last a little longer and can't afford Pain Split.

Giga Drain can go in OO I guess but Seed Bomb is generally better. Also Infestation is bad, remove it.

Remove the fourth point about Speed in the Overview, it's mostly irrelevant because Garbo is a bulky Spiker and relies more on its bulk than Speed to stack Spikes

Kinda wanna refrain from QCing too thoroughly cause I think that Seed Bomb might have more use now than before (hits Kabutops, and Toad is still really nice to hit on the switch). Idk yet tho so I'll just leave you with this and report back after some testing.
 

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