Dragonite's bulk is pretty situational, depending solely on mulitscales intactness. Since stealth rock is ever present that bulk will always hindered. I think it's fine in A.
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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)
- Thread starter alexwolf
- Start date
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Azelf: C+ ---> B-: Azelf is one of the top dedicated leads out there for HO teams. The Dual Screens set can give any threatening sweeper an easy path to victory, with Explosion dealing a healthy chunk of damage to anything not named Gengar. A side benefit to Explosion is that you can switch-in a sweeper behind screens without worrying about taking a hit or status on the switch. Azelf is also one of the better hazard leads in wake of the Deos leaving the tier. A fast Taunt allows him to outspeed and disable most opposing leads, Rocks are great on any team and Magic Coat can be used in niche situations (especially against LeadAero and priority Taunters). Lead sets can utilize Knock Off and U-Turn for good utility, while also making it not complete Taunt bait. Even uninvested, they are not to be laughed off at 125 base attack. Azelf can also run a Nasty Plot set which, while not very effective on its own, can get you off to an early 6 on 5 (or more) if the opponent is expecting a typical lead set. It also has a wide selection of moves to add to coverage to compliment Psyshock/Psychic. Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, Dazzling Gleam, Shadow Ball and the rare Energy Ball give you a lot of options. Overall a very good Pokemon who always puts in work on HO teams. Should rise to at least B-.
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I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM
formerly Smog Frog
Omastar needs to move up. Its power is beyond ridiculous. It has all the tools it needs to cripple everything(knock off, hilariously powerful hydro pumps, and ice beam) not even chansey is safe switching in because after it gets its eviolite knocked off it can't beat omastar after rocks are up(252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Chansey in Rain: 310-366 (48.2 - 57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock) like that is fucking hilarious. also for those who say it faces competition from kingdra, it is actually one of its best teammates(omastar overcomes kingdras relative lack of power compared to other swimmers, and kingdra beats scarfers that plague omastar) so competition from kingdra isn't a valid argument. the only competition it faces as a swift swimmer is kabutops, which is an arguably superior swift swimmer. if anything, it should be right up there with kingdra, as both are equally viable swift swimmers.
also gonna make a case for salamence moving up to C-/C after i take my shower
/ edit
Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 204 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- Wish/Defog
- Roost
- Earthquake/Aerial Ace/Dragon Claw
- Dragon Tail/Aerial Ace/Dragon Claw
basically wishmence. what the set does is that it can be fitted to your teams needs, with the only necessity being roost. it can beat some really big threats such as lando, keldeo, zard y, subDD mega gyara, and it can check some other threats depending on which moves you choose. speed jumps heracross, which can otherwise destroy the set w/ rock blast. sure, you may be saying "cbbnite is better" but hear me out. salamence has intimidate, wish, and speed to beat heracross. while the set does face competition from cbbnite, it has the niche of wish+intimidate. intimidate allows it to consistently wish, and the ability to counter lando, keldeo, and zard y, allows it to wish on them so it is consistent in the wishing department. the offensive presence it exerts also forces switches and allows it to wish then as well. i think this set has enough of a niche to be out of d rank, and yes, i have tested it before. and when we look at synergy with higher ranks, victini stands out, as it enjoys the ground immunity and water resist salamence provides, while salamence enjoys the ice and fairy resist. doublade also enjoys salamence's wish support, and the two have decent type synergy. together, they beat terrakion, lati@s, mega hera, mega garde, mega cham, landorus, keldeo, and zard y. thats pretty much every relevant stall breaker outside of mew. together, victini, wishmence, and doublade beat just about every relevant threat to stall. just add on a bulky water and you have a good stall build.
also gonna make a case for salamence moving up to C-/C after i take my shower
/ edit
Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 204 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- Wish/Defog
- Roost
- Earthquake/Aerial Ace/Dragon Claw
- Dragon Tail/Aerial Ace/Dragon Claw
basically wishmence. what the set does is that it can be fitted to your teams needs, with the only necessity being roost. it can beat some really big threats such as lando, keldeo, zard y, subDD mega gyara, and it can check some other threats depending on which moves you choose. speed jumps heracross, which can otherwise destroy the set w/ rock blast. sure, you may be saying "cbbnite is better" but hear me out. salamence has intimidate, wish, and speed to beat heracross. while the set does face competition from cbbnite, it has the niche of wish+intimidate. intimidate allows it to consistently wish, and the ability to counter lando, keldeo, and zard y, allows it to wish on them so it is consistent in the wishing department. the offensive presence it exerts also forces switches and allows it to wish then as well. i think this set has enough of a niche to be out of d rank, and yes, i have tested it before. and when we look at synergy with higher ranks, victini stands out, as it enjoys the ground immunity and water resist salamence provides, while salamence enjoys the ice and fairy resist. doublade also enjoys salamence's wish support, and the two have decent type synergy. together, they beat terrakion, lati@s, mega hera, mega garde, mega cham, landorus, keldeo, and zard y. thats pretty much every relevant stall breaker outside of mew. together, victini, wishmence, and doublade beat just about every relevant threat to stall. just add on a bulky water and you have a good stall build.
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So when has DNite ever run Max SpDef with no HP investment? Or Max Def with no HP investment? Heck, when does DNite ever use Waterfall or TBolt lol.
Pls use relevant sets when nominating a mon for a higher rank, especially one for A+. Whether or not I agree with the move is irrelevevant; I still think this is a shitty argument.
Also that was Timid Specs Greninja. Modest shreks him lol
People run Modest Greninja?
I was just trying to prove dragonite doesnt even need max hp in that situation, why must you think its such a bad argument?
Too bad that your greninja calcs don't factor in Protean.
252 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dragonite: 364-432 (94.3 - 111.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
If Multiscale is broken, you're toast.
Bad people do. I simply said that cuz he said that Modest couldn't OHKO, when it does.
Dragon Tail cannot be Taunted, and MAggron beats all viable Fairies 1v1 (if you read my original post you saw the calcs) so no, MAggron cannot be prevented from pHazing via Taunt unlike Skarm. I don't understand the comment about slow Taunters, nobody suggested running Taunt on Aggron. Skarmory does have reliable recovery, which is why it is A- rank while MAggron is being proposed to move up to B-, a whole rank lower. However, while MAggron does have "notable flaws than those above them that affect how [it] function in the tier", its "positive traits still outshine [its] negatives, [since it] require a bit more team support to bring out [its] full potential", usually in the form of a cleric to wake it from its Rests or heal it with Wish (quotes from B rank definition). It's not hard to switch a MAggron in to take a Wish, just fyi. This support is also usually trivial to provide because MAggron is often found in Dragon/Fairy/Steel cores and in such cores the Fairy, such as Clefable or Sylveon, typically fulfills a cleric role already. I agree that MAggron takes up a Mega slot and that losing access to the twin kings of XY Stall, MVenu and MCharizard X, is a shame, but let's be honest: not all teams have a perfect fit with one of those two, and the meta is overprepared for MVenu as is and the Stealth Rock weakness is a real turn off when it comes to CharX, even though he does have reliable recovery. I would disagree with the statement that Skarmory has a better typing than MAggron: While MAggron has 3 weaknesses, two of them are primarily physical (Ground and Fighting), and with filter and his base 230 Defense, even Super Effective physical hits do pitiful damage. Meanwhile, both of Skarmory's weaknesses (Fire and Electric) are primarily Special, making it exceedingly easy to fry the bird, even with Fire Blast from physical attackers. Mega Aggron's STAB is relevant because it beats Fairies, allowing him to pHaze 10x more reliably than Skarmory as he cannot be prevented from shuffling with Taunt. Skarmory's Flying STAB, on the other hand, is completely irrelevant as Skarmory does not invest in or run attacks bar on teams that desperately need MHeracross checks. This segues nicely into another pro MAggron has over Skarmory: Offensive presence. Mega Aggron's base 140 Attack and high weight make his Heavy Slam threatening even uninvested, getting crucial 2HKOes on Defoggers like Lati@s, which aids him as a pHazer as shuffling to rack up hazard damage is meaningless without hazards being up. Mega Aggron also can force switches, which Skarmory finds trouble doing: If MAggron comes in on a Clefable as it Calm Minds, it can take a +1 Flamethrower and KO in return with Heavy Slam, so the Clefable player will likely switch out. This gives Aggron the opportunity to use Dragon Tail, causing the initial switch in to take damage from both hazards and DTail while the Pokémon that is pHazed in also takes hazard damage. This makes him much more effective than Skarmory as a pHazer. MAggron does indeed miss leftovers, but it does not miss Head Smash as it does not have the role of wallbreaker, it has the role of pHazer.
TL;DR:
Mega Aggron is better than Skarmory as a pHazer (not physical wall) due to the following reasons:
~Dragon Tail cannot be Taunted
~Mega Aggron's Heavy Slam breaks through Fairies and Substitutes that stand in Dragon Tail's way
~Mega Aggron has better bulk on both sides and Filter, allowing it to pHaze Special Attackers or physical attackers with Super Effective STAB. Illustration for better bulk:
(252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 91-108 (27.2 - 32.3%), 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 69-82 (20 - 23.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO; 0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 165-195 (49.4 - 58.3%) -- 66.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery, 0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Mega Aggron: 114-135 (33.1 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO)
Illustration for ability to pHaze threatening boosted sweepers:
(+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 488-576 (146.1 - 172.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock, +1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 279-328 (81.1 - 95.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
~Mega Aggron forces switches with his 140 base Attack and strong STAB move
~Mega Aggron beats the common Defoggers Latios and Latias 1v1, removing the opponent's source of hazard control and thus increasing the effectiveness of pHazing as a strategy
Having to break Subs before phazing makes you a shitty phazer, especially when you have to take hits without any reliable recovery (they can just Sub again to stop being phazed btw). Dragon Tail's still blocked by Protect, meaning WishTect will still work.
Mega Gardevoir and Clefable both carry super effective coverage against you, so I don't see how you're dealing with them without taking a massive hit. Mega Gardevoir can actually 2HKO with Hyper Voice + Focus Blast, so you can't even counter it.
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Mega Aggron: 104-123 (30.2 - 35.7%) -- 33.9% chance to 3HKO
232 SpA Mega Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 213-252 (61.9 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
232+ SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Mega Aggron: 114-135 (33.1 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
232+ SpA Mega Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 235-277 (68.3 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Being unable to pHaze at all against a huge subset of Pokémon (Taunters) makes you a far shittier pHazer than being temporarily unable to pHaze against a relatively small subset of Pokémon who must give up 25% of their HP every time they want to avoid being pHazed (aka the same damage as 3 Spikes or a SE Rocks switch in, aka MAggron is still doing his job).
Gardevoir is notorious for getting kills on Stall, but every time Aggron comes in she's either forced out (and takes up to 37.5% when she comes back in) or KOed. Plus, according to the calc, the CM set uses HP Ground > Focus Blast so your argument is completely invalid for a large number of Gardevoir
The Pokemon that you usually want phazed are boosting sweepers, WishTectors, and Pokemon behind a Sub. You cannot phaze the last 2, and one of the more important ones in the first category is CM Clefable, which you can't phaze away. You seem to forget that the phaze targets tend to not carry Taunt unless you're being stupid/greedy and trying to rack up hazards damage by spamming phazing moves.
Oh, and Focus Blast is common on Mega Gardevoir (it's the first slash before HP Ground on the analysis http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gardevoir-qc-4-4-gp-0-2.3495258/) so you're not exactly a counter.
I think we're discussing different team archetypes. When I refer to a pHazer, I mean a Pokémkn dedicated to racking up hazard damage in a stall team, while you appear to be looking at the benefits of pHazing on an offensive team. Boosting sweepers? Yep, pHaze 'em. WishTect? No need to pHaze, half the team carries Toxic anyways. Pokémon behind a Sub? Well if you let a MHera get up a Sub you're doing it wrong (it being playing stall). Other than that you can usually afford to break the sub first. Taunt, on the other hand, is already a HUGE pain in the ass for Stall, so MAggron being able to operate without being affected by it is fantastic. Also, did you read my initial post on page 2 of this thread? The relevant calcs section at the bottom shows that MAggron can switch in on and beat every Clef variant 1v1, even CM max Modest Fire Blast (lol who uses that).
Ah, the calc has led me astray, then! Still, even if you can't claim hard counter you can still claim solid check.
Offensive teams don't run phazers because they kill momentum. Defensive teams run them for stopping boosting sweepers like CM Clefable* (which murders Stall btw) and sorta-kinda racking up hazards damage. Some WishTectors are immune to Toxic and stopping them from healing themselves is not one of the main reasons to have a phazer, it's just a bonus.
*CM Clefable does 37.5% minimum with a +1 Flamethrower while Heavy Slam fails to OHKO, so it only needs Mega Aggron to be at ~80% beforehand to allow it to comfortably win.
+1 4 SpA Clefable Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 129-153 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Mega Aggron Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 306-360 (77.6 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Firstly can someone please tell me why Landorus-I is S rank? I personally have never used it and I know it's good but S rank? How is it;
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.
Can someon explain to me why it's there? Otherwise I am nominating it for A+ in an edit. Now onto my nominations.
Mega Medicham for A+
Mega Medicham is one of my favourite Megas and now with Aegislash banned (mega mawile ban helped as well but aeigislash was pretty much the sole reason it wasn't used more) it can run amok and not have to carry fire punch. It has a 130BP STAB move coming off an effective 598 attack. With the Ghostly Knight gone it doesn't have to run fire punch which means it can have broader coverage options such as running ice punch for the Lando formes and Gliscor. It also has decent priority which is admittedly non STAB but still hits hard thanks to Pure Power. It can even utilise a fake out + bullet punch double priority combo that kills Mega Gardevoir and thanks to Mega Medicham's great attack he can function as a sort of psuedo priority revenge killer for finishing off weakened pokes. Another advantage it has is it's power is underestimated due to being obscure for a while with said Ghost Shield (dammit aegislash). While it does have some major flaws Mega Medicham has now improved enough to justify a raise. Here are some calcs to show just how powerful it is.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 213-251 (70.5 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
For some reason people I have played like switching in Latios to a mega medicham high jump kick.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 243-286 (79.9 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
This isn't even the common physically defensive Rotom-W set but just to show Mega Medicham's pure power (see what I did there?) This pretty much always OHKOs after a fake out.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 253-298 (73.5 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mega Aggron who has Filter and base 230 defence takes 73.5% minimum.
Mega Alakazam to A
Now that he who must not be named just banned (aegislash) and he who has way too much power (guess who) is also gone from OU Mega Alakazam has a chance to shine with it's 175 base special attack. Yep 175. Most people who never used him because of he who must not be named just banned have no idea his special attack is higher than Kyurem-B's attack. This coupled with a base 150 speed (speed tying with Mega Aero who last I checked does not have base 175 attack) makes Mega Alakazam able to destroy teams once priority and scarfers have been dealt with (if you run timid it can outspeed some scarfers. Also it can deal with sucker punch because of its sub sets). Mega Zam just got a whole lot better which is why I propose he is raised.
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.
Can someon explain to me why it's there? Otherwise I am nominating it for A+ in an edit. Now onto my nominations.
Mega Medicham for A+
Mega Medicham is one of my favourite Megas and now with Aegislash banned (mega mawile ban helped as well but aeigislash was pretty much the sole reason it wasn't used more) it can run amok and not have to carry fire punch. It has a 130BP STAB move coming off an effective 598 attack. With the Ghostly Knight gone it doesn't have to run fire punch which means it can have broader coverage options such as running ice punch for the Lando formes and Gliscor. It also has decent priority which is admittedly non STAB but still hits hard thanks to Pure Power. It can even utilise a fake out + bullet punch double priority combo that kills Mega Gardevoir and thanks to Mega Medicham's great attack he can function as a sort of psuedo priority revenge killer for finishing off weakened pokes. Another advantage it has is it's power is underestimated due to being obscure for a while with said Ghost Shield (dammit aegislash). While it does have some major flaws Mega Medicham has now improved enough to justify a raise. Here are some calcs to show just how powerful it is.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 213-251 (70.5 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
For some reason people I have played like switching in Latios to a mega medicham high jump kick.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 243-286 (79.9 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
This isn't even the common physically defensive Rotom-W set but just to show Mega Medicham's pure power (see what I did there?) This pretty much always OHKOs after a fake out.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 253-298 (73.5 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mega Aggron who has Filter and base 230 defence takes 73.5% minimum.
Mega Alakazam to A
Now that he who must not be named just banned (aegislash) and he who has way too much power (guess who) is also gone from OU Mega Alakazam has a chance to shine with it's 175 base special attack. Yep 175. Most people who never used him because of he who must not be named just banned have no idea his special attack is higher than Kyurem-B's attack. This coupled with a base 150 speed (speed tying with Mega Aero who last I checked does not have base 175 attack) makes Mega Alakazam able to destroy teams once priority and scarfers have been dealt with (if you run timid it can outspeed some scarfers. Also it can deal with sucker punch because of its sub sets). Mega Zam just got a whole lot better which is why I propose he is raised.
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Because ists arguably the best wallbreaker in the game. It can trash pretty much every wall in the tier with its powerful attacks, even Chansey has a hard time due to Knock off and possibly Focus Blast. It has good typing, beeing neutral to SR and with only 2 weakness along with a few usefull resists and decent defensive stats. It also has the highest Speed stat among all the wallbreakers in the tier giving it a better position against offensive teams.
So a wallbreaker and not much else? You would think something that is just a good wall breaker would be A+. It has a good typing granted but so does Gliscor and Lando-T which I believe is as good as Incarnate Forme (just from observation). Also it is not the fastest wallbreaker: Specs Keldeo is.
Alright fellas, I know we just moved it up, but I really think Starmie needs to move up to at least A-, maybe A.
Starmie is the best spinner in OU right now. Excadrill is still fantastic, no doubt, but it actually has to fear the only two OU-relevant Ghost-types, Gengar and Sableye. Excadrill cannot safely throw the Rapid Spin out with those Ghosts present on the opponent's team, because if it does, and the Ghosts come in to block it, Excadrill is forced out, fearing a Wisp (from either of them) or a Focus Blast from Gengar (or a Shadow Ball if exca is weakened enough). Starmie, on the other hand, can freely throw the Rapid Spin even with Gengar on the foe's team, as even if Gengar comes in to block it, it's forced out by the threat of Psychic/Psyshock or Hydro Pump. Sableye can switch in on the Rapid Spin, and it can threaten Starmie with a Knock Off, but it has to be fully specially defensive to not just get murdered the following turn by Hydro Pump.
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 274-325 (90.1 - 106.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 359-422 (118 - 138.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 185-218 (60.8 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 239-282 (78.6 - 92.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
So Sableye isn't even safe coming in, and even if it does get in on a Rapid Spin, it has no choice but to Knock Off (assuming it even has it; some run Foul Play, which still hurts Starmie, but not nearly as badly). It can't Recover, as that would activate Analytic and get it murdered.
Starmie is also an excellent fast special attacker with wide coverage. Its no secret that Greninja fills that role better, but the fact that Starmie brings Rapid Spin to the table makes it different enough to be a great choice. It fits right in on offensive teams as a speedy spinner and check to various threats, forcing out even top threats such as Keldeo and Landorus with a little bit of prediction. Forcing switches also allows it to abuse Analytic for even more power.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Starmie: 153-180 (58.3 - 68.7%)
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Starmie: 116-136 (44.2 - 51.9%)
Overall, it isn't the best mon, but it fits so well on any offensive team that I think its worth of at least A- rank. Being the fastest reliable hazard remover (besides Mega Aero? I'm not sure if people use it for Defog in OU like they do in UU) is huge, and not removing the hazards you set (unlike fellow speedy hazard removers Lati@s) is another huge benefit. It will never be dead weight, and really needs more love. With Aegislash gone, Starmie doesn't deserve to be UU anymore.
tl;dr Starmie is one of, if not the best, hazard remover in OU right now. Use it, all of you.
Starmie is the best spinner in OU right now. Excadrill is still fantastic, no doubt, but it actually has to fear the only two OU-relevant Ghost-types, Gengar and Sableye. Excadrill cannot safely throw the Rapid Spin out with those Ghosts present on the opponent's team, because if it does, and the Ghosts come in to block it, Excadrill is forced out, fearing a Wisp (from either of them) or a Focus Blast from Gengar (or a Shadow Ball if exca is weakened enough). Starmie, on the other hand, can freely throw the Rapid Spin even with Gengar on the foe's team, as even if Gengar comes in to block it, it's forced out by the threat of Psychic/Psyshock or Hydro Pump. Sableye can switch in on the Rapid Spin, and it can threaten Starmie with a Knock Off, but it has to be fully specially defensive to not just get murdered the following turn by Hydro Pump.
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 274-325 (90.1 - 106.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 359-422 (118 - 138.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 185-218 (60.8 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 239-282 (78.6 - 92.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
So Sableye isn't even safe coming in, and even if it does get in on a Rapid Spin, it has no choice but to Knock Off (assuming it even has it; some run Foul Play, which still hurts Starmie, but not nearly as badly). It can't Recover, as that would activate Analytic and get it murdered.
Starmie is also an excellent fast special attacker with wide coverage. Its no secret that Greninja fills that role better, but the fact that Starmie brings Rapid Spin to the table makes it different enough to be a great choice. It fits right in on offensive teams as a speedy spinner and check to various threats, forcing out even top threats such as Keldeo and Landorus with a little bit of prediction. Forcing switches also allows it to abuse Analytic for even more power.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Starmie: 153-180 (58.3 - 68.7%)
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Starmie: 116-136 (44.2 - 51.9%)
Overall, it isn't the best mon, but it fits so well on any offensive team that I think its worth of at least A- rank. Being the fastest reliable hazard remover (besides Mega Aero? I'm not sure if people use it for Defog in OU like they do in UU) is huge, and not removing the hazards you set (unlike fellow speedy hazard removers Lati@s) is another huge benefit. It will never be dead weight, and really needs more love. With Aegislash gone, Starmie doesn't deserve to be UU anymore.
tl;dr Starmie is one of, if not the best, hazard remover in OU right now. Use it, all of you.
It doesnt matter what role a pokemon plays, if its good enough on it it can be S rank. The definitions are kinda flawed in that regard because they only apply to Sweepers and Walls. Gliscor and Lando-T have completely different roles and imo arent as efficient at them as Lando-I is. And i wouldnt realy consider Keldeo to be a Wallbreaker tbh. Without specs it lacks the power and with specs it cant switch moves which prevents it from realy cutting through stall teams. Further more its walled pretty hard by many common stall mons, Venu, Amoonguss, Slowbro etc.
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In regards to Starmie, I'm not going to really take a stance on where it should go, however I will say this : If we do decide to move Starmie up, it shouldn't be for the merits of its offensive set (which is worth B+ and no more), but for the bulky set which is IMO the best set atm since it suffers no competition from Greninja, and is just ridiculously good at spinning. Reflect Type Starmie is basically to spinning what Alomomola is to wishpassing : doesn't do much else, but is so obscenely efficient at its job you can easily forgive its lack of versatility. So yeah, Reflect Type Stramie is definitely the set we should be looking at, because if one Starmie set merits its rise in the rankings then it's this one.
When does exca get forced out by gengar?
^ Also Gengar doesn't like to switch-in on Excadrill anyways since Mold Breaker variants just beat it by EQ and Sand Rush ones can outspeed it if sand is up and kill it with Iron Head which OHKOs always if Stealth Rock are up (speaking about Excas without Life Orb, which OHKO regardless even without Stealth Rock support).
You people are aware Gengar is spamming WoW like crazy right now?
You are aware that the most common Excadrill set right now outspeeds and OHKO's gengar easily right?
You cant really expect to burn something like excadrill in a tier where sand offense is huge and excadrill is saying gg to anything frail under sand with sand rush. I dont see how gengar is a reliable answer unless the excadrill player royally screwed up.
Edit: ninjad
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