Entei deserves mention in the priority section as it has extremspeed which is great on both CB and AV.
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Other OU Pokemon Categorization Thread
- Thread starter Frozen Arrow
- Start date
- Status
Here are some changes I'm proposing:
Spinners / Defoggers
Well first, maybe rename to Hazard Removers. Also, this is minor, but change Scizor's sprite to Mega Scizor's n.n. Also, Empoleon should be added.
Stealth Rock
Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Garchomp, and Bisharp have much better things to do than run SR. I think they should be removed. Also, Bronzong, Empoleon, Infernape, and Jirachi should be mentioned.
Spikes
Add Froslass
Priority
I'd add Whimsicott + Mega Medicham. I know BP + FO are known to be bad on cham, but they're not as bad as people say, especially in an Aegi-free meta.
*Clerics
Add some description; are you looking for all-out clerics, or are "semi-clerics" good, since wish-pasher isn't a category. For reference, Togekiss, Chansey, and Clefable often don't use Heal Bell, so mentioning Alomomola would make sense.
Baton Pass
Add Mega Scizor, Venomoth, Gorebyss, Sylveon, and Smeargle.
*Offensive Pokemon
This is basically a combination of frail and fast offensive Pokemon now, so since Keldeo isn't here, just labeling it as offensive seems wrong. I think what I would do is make two categories: One for wallbreaker and one for sweeper. Since you already have a wallbreaker category, just add the slow mons (Landorus is considered slow) there and put the fast ones in a new category that emphasizes speed. Imo 109 is fast, so everything as fast or faster than Latios would fit here). Fast Pokemon or Revenge Killer could be the name. There anything that commonly runs a scarf, like tyranitar, garchomp, and terrakion would also fit, regardless of their bulk. Overall I think being as specific as possible is ideal; Crawdaunt and Gengar should be separated, since despite both being offensive, their roles are totally different.
So basically, imho, offense should be split up into Setup Sweeper, Bulky Offensive, Wallbreaker, Stallbreaker, and Speedy/Revenge Killer. Additionally, Sharpedo should be removed.
Bulky Offensive Pokemon
This seems fine, but I kinda think tying should be factored in as well. What I mean is, yes, Mega Pinsir fits your requirements for bulky. However, due to its terrible defensive typing, it offers no defensive synergy, and is thus only used on HO teams. Stuff here should be used on BO teams mostly, and Pinsir is pretty bad on these types of teams. Additionally, there are probably a lot of Pokemon missing. I saw that Raikou, Magnezone, Togekiss, Jirachi, and Celebi were all missing, and there are probably a lot of others. It'd be great if we could have a spreadsheet with every pokemon's stats on it, to find all pokemon in this range. Also, it seems weird that the requirements for BO are stricter than defensive, considering Sableye is defensive, and doesn't qualify as bulky here.
Defensive Pokemon
This seems good, although it could be separated into two categories (specially defensive and physically defensive). Regardless, Bronzong, Jirachi, Doublade, Infernape, Mega Ampharos, and Granbull (and probably a punch of other stuff) should be added.
Stallbreaker
A stallbreaker is something that breaks stally tactics with Taunt + usually status + sometimes Knock Off. Thus, Gliscor should be added, and Landorus, Gothitelle, Diggersby, and Clefable should be removed.
Wallbreaker
A wallbreaker is something that destroys walls with its highpower moves and/or its coverage, so Landorus, Mega Gardevoir, Sylveon, Exploud, Infernape, Mega Heracross, and a bunch of other stuff should be added.
Sticky Web
Remove Galvantula.
Weather
All good
Setup Sweepers
Add Celebi, Bisharp, Haxorus, Gyarados, Clefable, and some other stuff.
Dual Screens
Remove Clefable, Jirachi, Manaphy, Raikou, Rotom-W, Starmie, Sylveon, and Togekiss, and add Azelf.
*Trapper
This was proposed for a category awhile ago, but it was never added. I really think Magnezone, Gothitelle, Wobbufett, and Dugtrio should be added to their own category.
Mega Evolutions
(Obviously minor) remove the apostrophe
*Pokemon Specific
You can update this, since 13 weeks have been completed, and some previous weeks have been edited.
Rain
Add Omastar, Thundurus, Thundurus-T, Raikou, Manectric, Seismitoad, Azelf, and Keldeo, and remove Rotom-W.
Sand
Add Mega Garchomp, Mega Heracross, Talonflame, remove Clefable
Trick Room
Remove Mega Aggron, add Cresselia, Porygon2, Exploud, Bronzong, and Crawdaunt
Volt-turn
Remove Greninja. Other than that, too much has Volt-turn for me to think about n.n
Frozen Arrow hopefully all this makes sense. Hopefully you split up offense into the categories I talked about, since I think it'd be much clearer. Also, if you disagree w. anything, please tell me. :)
Spinners / Defoggers
Well first, maybe rename to Hazard Removers. Also, this is minor, but change Scizor's sprite to Mega Scizor's n.n. Also, Empoleon should be added.
Stealth Rock
Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Garchomp, and Bisharp have much better things to do than run SR. I think they should be removed. Also, Bronzong, Empoleon, Infernape, and Jirachi should be mentioned.
Spikes
Add Froslass
Priority
I'd add Whimsicott + Mega Medicham. I know BP + FO are known to be bad on cham, but they're not as bad as people say, especially in an Aegi-free meta.
*Clerics
Add some description; are you looking for all-out clerics, or are "semi-clerics" good, since wish-pasher isn't a category. For reference, Togekiss, Chansey, and Clefable often don't use Heal Bell, so mentioning Alomomola would make sense.
Baton Pass
Add Mega Scizor, Venomoth, Gorebyss, Sylveon, and Smeargle.
*Offensive Pokemon
This is basically a combination of frail and fast offensive Pokemon now, so since Keldeo isn't here, just labeling it as offensive seems wrong. I think what I would do is make two categories: One for wallbreaker and one for sweeper. Since you already have a wallbreaker category, just add the slow mons (Landorus is considered slow) there and put the fast ones in a new category that emphasizes speed. Imo 109 is fast, so everything as fast or faster than Latios would fit here). Fast Pokemon or Revenge Killer could be the name. There anything that commonly runs a scarf, like tyranitar, garchomp, and terrakion would also fit, regardless of their bulk. Overall I think being as specific as possible is ideal; Crawdaunt and Gengar should be separated, since despite both being offensive, their roles are totally different.
So basically, imho, offense should be split up into Setup Sweeper, Bulky Offensive, Wallbreaker, Stallbreaker, and Speedy/Revenge Killer. Additionally, Sharpedo should be removed.
Bulky Offensive Pokemon
This seems fine, but I kinda think tying should be factored in as well. What I mean is, yes, Mega Pinsir fits your requirements for bulky. However, due to its terrible defensive typing, it offers no defensive synergy, and is thus only used on HO teams. Stuff here should be used on BO teams mostly, and Pinsir is pretty bad on these types of teams. Additionally, there are probably a lot of Pokemon missing. I saw that Raikou, Magnezone, Togekiss, Jirachi, and Celebi were all missing, and there are probably a lot of others. It'd be great if we could have a spreadsheet with every pokemon's stats on it, to find all pokemon in this range. Also, it seems weird that the requirements for BO are stricter than defensive, considering Sableye is defensive, and doesn't qualify as bulky here.
Defensive Pokemon
This seems good, although it could be separated into two categories (specially defensive and physically defensive). Regardless, Bronzong, Jirachi, Doublade, Infernape, Mega Ampharos, and Granbull (and probably a punch of other stuff) should be added.
Stallbreaker
A stallbreaker is something that breaks stally tactics with Taunt + usually status + sometimes Knock Off. Thus, Gliscor should be added, and Landorus, Gothitelle, Diggersby, and Clefable should be removed.
Wallbreaker
A wallbreaker is something that destroys walls with its highpower moves and/or its coverage, so Landorus, Mega Gardevoir, Sylveon, Exploud, Infernape, Mega Heracross, and a bunch of other stuff should be added.
Sticky Web
Remove Galvantula.
Weather
All good
Setup Sweepers
Add Celebi, Bisharp, Haxorus, Gyarados, Clefable, and some other stuff.
Dual Screens
Remove Clefable, Jirachi, Manaphy, Raikou, Rotom-W, Starmie, Sylveon, and Togekiss, and add Azelf.
*Trapper
This was proposed for a category awhile ago, but it was never added. I really think Magnezone, Gothitelle, Wobbufett, and Dugtrio should be added to their own category.
Mega Evolutions
(Obviously minor) remove the apostrophe
*Pokemon Specific
You can update this, since 13 weeks have been completed, and some previous weeks have been edited.
Rain
Add Omastar, Thundurus, Thundurus-T, Raikou, Manectric, Seismitoad, Azelf, and Keldeo, and remove Rotom-W.
Sand
Add Mega Garchomp, Mega Heracross, Talonflame, remove Clefable
Trick Room
Remove Mega Aggron, add Cresselia, Porygon2, Exploud, Bronzong, and Crawdaunt
Volt-turn
Remove Greninja. Other than that, too much has Volt-turn for me to think about n.n
Frozen Arrow hopefully all this makes sense. Hopefully you split up offense into the categories I talked about, since I think it'd be much clearer. Also, if you disagree w. anything, please tell me. :)
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Lots of updates that I can agree with, Offense / Defense could definitely do with a better sorting factor like you said so If you or any one else comes with a better system for splitting them up a bit I would be glad to hear it.
For the Sand changes you have suggested, I would be interested in knowing why you think talonflame should be added and clefable removed.
Will add :)
Ok. Do you want me to post my categories filled out? Because I listed the categories I think branch from offensive as: Setup Sweeper, Bulky Offensive, Wallbreaker, Stallbreaker, and Speedy/Revenge Killer, but of course those aren't final.
So clefable I guess is immune to sand damage, it's just that it isn't a staple on sand teams. I guess you could keep it though, since if its cm fable, it appreciates its checks and counters getting worn down. Talonflame, however, is a staple is on sand teams, due to its ability to beat bulky Grass-types like Chesnaught, who otherwise wall every sand mon. Talonflame also helps sand teams beat various fighting types who check tyranitar, like keldeo.
Question, if sableye is under priority, why isn't Thundurus? Thought priority ｔ wave is clinch in high level play
Thundurus Is the very first one in the Priority list O.o
I am in the process of completely re-doing the Offense/Defense System, when It has been re-worked I will try to add it in :)
Will add the three.
Sorry, the picture didn't load on my slow-ass data plan. >__>
haha, no problem.
On another note I have just updated Bulky Offense and Offense lists. They are less stat based but should be slightly more accurate because they are based on the other facts that weren't used previously such as typing and common EV spreads. Also added "trappers."
I'd also add Scizor, Mega Absol, and Mega Scizor to Pursuit trappers
I think Bird Spam checks deserve a category with Rotom-W, Landorus-T, Thundurus, etc. in it.
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