Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)

[Firebird101]

You are aware that the most common Excadrill set right now outspeeds and OHKO's gengar easily right?

Most popular set =/= everyone runs it.

Sand rush needs sandstorm and mold breaker scarf kills momentum. Gengar is a poor switch in to Excadrill I agree but Excadrill cant beat Gengar unless the conditions allow it. Starmie is also vulnerable to it but being faster it doesnt have to rely on support to beat Gengar.

 

[AM]

Most popular set =/= everyone runs it.

Sand rush needs sandstorm and mold breaker scarf kills momentum. Gengar is a poor switch in to Excadrill I agree but Excadrill cant beat Gengar unless the conditions allow it. Starmie is also vulnerable to it but being faster it doesnt have to rely on support to beat Gengar.

You're missing the point that the support is so minimal at times that excadrill barely has an issue with it. Also excadrill without sand imo is pretty meh in such an offensive meta where if it isnt sand its more than likely subpar support. Scar exca is just ass, helps it beat some things but its a huge liability at times. Pretty obvious to know when its sand rush exca anyways when the obvious sand setter is there.

 

[x MAD AXES x]

Dragon Tail cannot be Taunted, and MAggron beats all viable Fairies 1v1 (if you read my original post you saw the calcs) so no, MAggron cannot be prevented from pHazing via Taunt unlike Skarm. I don't understand the comment about slow Taunters, nobody suggested running Taunt on Aggron. Skarmory does have reliable recovery, which is why it is A- rank while MAggron is being proposed to move up to B-, a whole rank lower. However, while MAggron does have "notable flaws than those above them that affect how [it] function in the tier", its "positive traits still outshine [its] negatives, [since it] require a bit more team support to bring out [its] full potential", usually in the form of a cleric to wake it from its Rests or heal it with Wish (quotes from B rank definition). It's not hard to switch a MAggron in to take a Wish, just fyi. This support is also usually trivial to provide because MAggron is often found in Dragon/Fairy/Steel cores and in such cores the Fairy, such as Clefable or Sylveon, typically fulfills a cleric role already. I agree that MAggron takes up a Mega slot and that losing access to the twin kings of XY Stall, MVenu and MCharizard X, is a shame, but let's be honest: not all teams have a perfect fit with one of those two, and the meta is overprepared for MVenu as is and the Stealth Rock weakness is a real turn off when it comes to CharX, even though he does have reliable recovery. I would disagree with the statement that Skarmory has a better typing than MAggron: While MAggron has 3 weaknesses, two of them are primarily physical (Ground and Fighting), and with filter and his base 230 Defense, even Super Effective physical hits do pitiful damage. Meanwhile, both of Skarmory's weaknesses (Fire and Electric) are primarily Special, making it exceedingly easy to fry the bird, even with Fire Blast from physical attackers. Mega Aggron's STAB is relevant because it beats Fairies, allowing him to pHaze 10x more reliably than Skarmory as he cannot be prevented from shuffling with Taunt. Skarmory's Flying STAB, on the other hand, is completely irrelevant as Skarmory does not invest in or run attacks bar on teams that desperately need MHeracross checks. This segues nicely into another pro MAggron has over Skarmory: Offensive presence. Mega Aggron's base 140 Attack and high weight make his Heavy Slam threatening even uninvested, getting crucial 2HKOes on Defoggers like Lati@s, which aids him as a pHazer as shuffling to rack up hazard damage is meaningless without hazards being up. Mega Aggron also can force switches, which Skarmory finds trouble doing: If MAggron comes in on a Clefable as it Calm Minds, it can take a +1 Flamethrower and KO in return with Heavy Slam, so the Clefable player will likely switch out. This gives Aggron the opportunity to use Dragon Tail, causing the initial switch in to take damage from both hazards and DTail while the Pokémon that is pHazed in also takes hazard damage. This makes him much more effective than Skarmory as a pHazer. MAggron does indeed miss leftovers, but it does not miss Head Smash as it does not have the role of wallbreaker, it has the role of pHazer.

TL;DR:

Mega Aggron is better than Skarmory as a pHazer (not physical wall) due to the following reasons:

~Dragon Tail cannot be Taunted
~Mega Aggron's Heavy Slam breaks through Fairies and Substitutes that stand in Dragon Tail's way
~Mega Aggron has better bulk on both sides and Filter, allowing it to pHaze Special Attackers or physical attackers with Super Effective STAB. Illustration for better bulk:
(252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 91-108 (27.2 - 32.3%), 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 69-82 (20 - 23.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO; 0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 165-195 (49.4 - 58.3%) -- 66.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery, 0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Mega Aggron: 114-135 (33.1 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO)
Illustration for ability to pHaze threatening boosted sweepers:
(+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 488-576 (146.1 - 172.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock, +1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 279-328 (81.1 - 95.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
~Mega Aggron forces switches with his 140 base Attack and strong STAB move
~Mega Aggron beats the common Defoggers Latios and Latias 1v1, removing the opponent's source of hazard control and thus increasing the effectiveness of pHazing as a strategy

Just out of curiousity what set are you using on Aggron?

 

[Firebird101]

You're missing the point that the support is so minimal at times that excadrill barely has an issue with it. Also excadrill without sand imo is pretty meh in such an offensive meta where if it isnt sand its more than likely subpar support. Scar exca is just ass, helps it beat some things but its a huge liability at times. Pretty obvious to know when its sand rush exca anyways when the obvious sand setter is there.

Sand rush is definitely the better set no argument there. Mold breaker has some pros but the speed is poor and no ground type wants to locked into EQ. And to be fair while both the sand streamers are very usable neither of them are particularly hard to kill. Tyranitar fears all fighting pokemon while Hippowdon is scared of all kinds of special attackers and wallbreakers.


Anyways I just think Starmie is better at handling spinblockers so while not overall better it definitely has some merits to make Excadrill green with envy.

 

[Megoodraggon]

Just out of curiousity what set are you using on Aggron?

Aggron @ Aggronite
Heavy Metal
Impish
252 HP/16 Def/240 SDef
~Dragon Tail
~Rest
~Heavy Slam
~Sleep Talk/Earthquake/Thunder Wave

 

[Anish]

I would like to nominate Dragonite for A+ because of its sheer unpredictability, which it can use with its very diverse movepool to eliminate many pokemon that switch in to it. It can use Thunder Punch (or Thunderbolt depending on its set) to beat Azumarill, Gyarados-Mega, Togekiss, and Skarmory. It can also take hits very well due to Multiscale, making it extremely hard to OHKO without Stealth Rock. Access to Roost lets it temporarily have only a 2x weakness to Ice, and allows it to take hits after its Multiscale is broken! These calcs explain how strong Dragonite is.
252 Attack Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash Vs 0 HP 252 Defence Multiscale Dragonite: 268-320 (82.9-99%) Guarenteed 2HKO. Just out of reach.
+2 (weakness policy) 252 Attack Dragonite Waterfall Vs 0 HP 0 Defence Mamoswine: 430-506 (119.7-140.9%) Guarenteed OHKO.
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Ice Beam vs 0HP 252 SpD Careful Dragonite: 270-320 (83.5-99%) Guarenteed 2HKO. Not even greninja can do it!
+2 252 Attack Dragonite Dragon Claw vs 4HP 0Def Greninja: 372-438 (130-153.1%) Guarenteed OHKO.
Not even Modest+Choice Specs Greninja succeeds against max HP max SpD Dragonite!
252 SpA Choice Specs Modest Greninja Ice Beam vs 252 HP 252 SpD Careful Dragonite: 296-350 (76.6-90.6%) Guarenteed 2HKO.

Your Mamoswine calc is wrong
244 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Spear (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Multiscale Dragonite: 243-288 (62.9 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(81, 81, 81, 86, 86, 86, 86, 88, 88, 88, 88, 94, 94, 94, 94, 96)
The damage calculator is factoring Multiscale each turn and 3 hits does 81*5=405 (as once multiscale breaks it hits for double damage) with 386 max it KOs with 3 hits.I am factoring max def max HP and it KOs with 3 hits.

 

[theV8man]

Mega Alakazam to A
Now that he who must not be named just banned (aegislash) and he who has way too much power (guess who) is also gone from OU Mega Alakazam has a chance to shine with it's 175 base special attack. Yep 175. Most people who never used him because of he who must not be named just banned have no idea his special attack is higher than Kyurem-B's attack. This coupled with a base 150 speed (speed tying with Mega Aero who last I checked does not have base 175 attack) makes Mega Alakazam able to destroy teams once priority and scarfers have been dealt with (if you run timid it can outspeed some scarfers. Also it can deal with sucker punch because of its sub sets). Mega Zam just got a whole lot better which is why I propose he is raised.

Mega Zam being in the same ranks as Dragonite and Tyranitar is just unthinkable for me. You emphasize how it has a 175 base special attack, when anything with a base 125 attack and a life orb is overpowering that. This also makes the comparison to Kyurem-B's attack stat irrelevant... unboosted 175 special attack isn't what you think it is. Because of its frailty, any form of priority is easily doing over 50% damage, and in a meta that likes using scarfchomp and sand rush exca, Alakazam is having a hard time not getting revenge killed. Not to mention many things with a high special defense can switch in and easily wall. This thing is fine in B+. Maybe if the Future Sight set that was recently mentioned is really good it can nudge into A- but this thing is not A material.

 

[Numera]

Starmie for A- is an interesting discussion, and I'm unsure what side I'm on. I'll just point something out.

Excadrill may be the most viable Pokemon with Rapid Spin, but in reality, Starmie is the best dedicated spinner due to it's offensive set checking every single hazard setter and it's defensive set being able to burn opponents and work around Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Keldeo and Pursuit trappers through Reflect Type.

 

[Gloating]

Didn't Starmie recently move up? Anyways I think it doesn't need to move up any further and I personally don't like the defensive set, I'd rather just use LO + 3 attacks which easily bypasses Gengar and other shit like Doublade while also punching holes on the other team and Reflect Type is pretty situational. Then there's also the fact that Spikes and T-Spikes aren't as common anymore so being able to get rid of hazards isn't a big deal as people make it out to be. Then it faces competition from Excadrill and the Lati twins who are better all around Pokemon.

 

[Megoodraggon]

Mega Zam being in the same ranks as Dragonite and Tyranitar is just unthinkable for me. You emphasize how it has a 175 base special attack, when anything with a base 125 attack and a life orb is overpowering that. This also makes the comparison to Kyurem-B's attack stat irrelevant... unboosted 175 special attack isn't what you think it is. Because of its frailty, any form of priority is easily doing over 50% damage, and in a meta that likes using scarfchomp and sand rush exca, Alakazam is having a hard time not getting revenge killed. Not to mention many things with a high special defense can switch in and easily wall. This thing is fine in B+. Maybe if the Future Sight set that was recently mentioned is really good it can nudge into A- but this thing is not A material.

>has trouble not getting revenge killed by Sand Rush Exca
>Trace

 

[Karxrida]

>has trouble not getting revenge killed by Sand Rush Exca
>Trace

It won't have Sand Rush because Trace will have copied something else by time Excadrill comes in.

 

[Siggu]

>has trouble not getting revenge killed by Sand Rush Exca
>Trace

He's correct, actually. Mega-Zam is easily revenge killed by Excadrill as Exca is switching in for a revenge kill, so Alakazam will not have Sand Rush in that situation

The opposite is true, though. Mega-Alakazam can also revenge kill Excadrill but Focus Blast's accuracy...

 

[Celticpride]

Mega Zam doesn't have trouble revenge killing Excadrill. It does have trouble getting revenge killed by Excadrill.

Edit: Double ninja'd :(

 

[WECAMEASROMANS]

Supporting Mega Venusaur to S Rank

Mega Venusaur is truly metagame defining. Some pokemon run movesets just to beat this thing, or have a chance of beating it (ex keldeo running hp flying instead of something like hp electric). Mega Venusaur is able to beat the vast majority of the OU metagame in a 1 on 1 scenario with the offensive tank set. And when I say vast majority, I really mean it. Assuming Venusaur has an EV spread of 236 hp/252 spatk/20 speed modest nature and a moveset of Giga Drain/Sludge Bomb/Synthesis/Hp fire, Mega Venusaur beats the following pokemon 1 on 1:

Thundurus, Raikou (without extrasensory), Greninja (without extrasensory), Manectric, Zapdos, Keldeo, Azumarill, Amoongus, Breloom, Ferrothorn, Scizor, Landorus-t, Gyarados, Tyranitar, Mandibuzz (give Venusaur 0 attack IVs and foul play wont do shit then pressure it with sludge bomb), Gliscor, Garchomp, Manaphy, Excadrill, Diggersby, Clefable, Sylveon, Rotom-W, Suicune, Terrakion, Mamoswine, Infernape, Bisharp, Hippodown, Conkeldurr, Skarmory (without brave bird)

The things that do beat Mega Venusaur 1 on 1, have a very difficult time switching in on its powerful attacks. Latios, Latias, Pinsir, Medicham, Gardevoir, Alakazam, Charizard, Talonflame, Kyurem-b all take huge damage from sludge bomb (and risk getting poisoned). A bunch of those are also weak to SR, so after a SR switch in, they can even get koed. Heracross can't switch in that easily either, because the Mega Venusaur user can predict the switch in and 2hko Heracross with HP Fire. Landorus also takes massive damage from Giga Drain on the switch.

Very few pokemon outright wall Mega Venusaur's offensive tank set. The only two I can think of at the top of my head are Chansey and Heatran, and both of those can be beaten with the proper moves. Chansey does not like Leech Seed at all, and Heatran fails to do any significant damage to you but you can do massive damage in return if you run Earthquake.

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

Mega Venusaur, in my opinion, fits this description extremely well. Because it can beat the most of the metagame easily in a 1 on 1 scenario, and the majority of the pokemon that do beat it 1 on 1 don't like switching in on it at all, and its ability to customize its EV spread and movesets to better fit on the team its in, using Mega Venusaur has very low risk involved put at the same time has high reward. It has numerous positive traits and very few flaws (weakness to flying and psychic).

We need to look at how Mega Venusaur defines the metagame and how well it fares vs the rest of OU/BL. We are used to S Rank being the home of powerful sweepers or super hard hitting wall breakers. While Mega Venusaur may not be the most hard hitting pokemon or capable of sweeping entire teams (which is why this nomination might be controversial), its defensive traits combined with its power more than make up for this.

BUMP MEGA VENUSAUR TO S RANK

 

[Anty]

>has trouble not getting revenge killed by Sand Rush Exca
>Trace

How can it trace a poke that has come in on it? Trace wont keep working after a new mon comes in

Mega alakazam is fine where it is. Although it has decent speed and power, it lacks the bulk to try to sweep, so constantly has to switch out. It really cant compete with the other a rank mons, pokes like medicham are a lot stronger, scizor has bulk and can sweep, gengars typing is a lot better and has multiple sets.

Even comparing it to a- rank mons it doesnt fit in. It lacks the pure strength of diggersby, who can utilise sash or just spam choice banded quick attacks, kyurem black has the ability to go mixed and good bulk. Keep mega zam where it is

i know i got ninjad a lot

 

[Karxrida]

Forretress should remained unranked. It's biggest niche is having most hazards and Rapid Spin, most of which are useless now because Defog makes Spikes and Toxic Spikes not worth it and Defog's also unblockable. It's also a passive piece of shit that gives free switch-ins to just about everything without being able to threaten them back, and the Steel nerf means Gengar has an easier time spinblocking you.

Supporting Mega Venusaur to S Rank

Mega Venusaur is truly metagame defining. Some pokemon run movesets just to beat this thing, or have a chance of beating it (ex keldeo running hp flying instead of something like hp electric). Mega Venusaur is able to beat the vast majority of the OU metagame in a 1 on 1 scenario with the offensive tank set. And when I say vast majority, I really mean it. Assuming Venusaur has an EV spread of 236 hp/252 spatk/20 speed modest nature and a moveset of Giga Drain/Sludge Bomb/Synthesis/Hp fire, Mega Venusaur beats the following pokemon 1 on 1:

Thundurus, Raikou (without extrasensory), Greninja (without extrasensory), Manectric, Zapdos, Keldeo, Azumarill, Amoongus, Breloom, Ferrothorn, Scizor, Landorus-t, Gyarados, Tyranitar, Mandibuzz (give Venusaur 0 attack IVs and foul play wont do shit then pressure it with sludge bomb), Gliscor, Garchomp, Manaphy, Excadrill, Diggersby, Clefable, Sylveon, Rotom-W, Suicune, Terrakion, Mamoswine, Infernape, Bisharp, Hippodown, Conkeldurr, Skarmory (without brave bird)

The things that do beat Mega Venusaur 1 on 1, have a very difficult time switching in on its powerful attacks. Latios, Latias, Pinsir, Medicham, Gardevoir, Alakazam, Charizard, Talonflame, Kyurem-b all take huge damage from sludge bomb (and risk getting poisoned). A bunch of those are also weak to SR, so after a SR switch in, they can even get 2hkoed. Heracross can't switch in that easily either, because with the Mega Venusaur user can predict the switch in and 2hko Heracross. Landorus also takes massive damage from Giga Drain on the switch.

Very few pokemon outright wall Mega Venusaur's offensive tank set. The only two I can think of at the top of my head are Chansey and Heatran, and both of those can be beaten with the proper moves. Chansey does not like Leech Seed at all, and Heatran fails to do any significant damage to you but you can do massive damage in return if you run Earthquake.

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

Mega Venusaur, in my opinion, fits this description extremely well. Because it can beat the most of the metagame easily in a 1 on 1 scenario, and the majority of the pokemon that do beat it 1 on 1 don't like switching in on it at all, and its ability to customize its EV spread and movesets to better fit on the team its in, using Mega Venusaur has very low risk involved put at the same time has high reward. It has numerous positive traits and very few flaws (weakness to flying and psychic).

We need to look at how Mega Venusaur defines the metagame and how well it fares vs the rest of OU/BL. We are used to S Rank being the home of powerful sweepers or super hard hitting wall breakers. While Mega Venusaur may not be the most hard hitting pokemon or capable of sweeping entire teams (which is why this nomination might be controversial), its defensive traits combined with its power more than make up for this.

BUMP MEGA VENUSAUR TO S RANK

The meta is overprepared for Mega Venu right now and it won't be S-Rank as long as Flyspam and Sand exist.

 

[WECAMEASROMANS]

If you read my post, you could clearly see that Mega Venusaur beats all the common pokemon on sand in a 1 vs 1 scenario (tyranitar, excadrill, Landorus-T), and none of the flyspam members like switching in on it at all (talonflame, mega pinsir, even staraptor). How exactly is the metagame over prepared for it as you say?

 

[Karxrida]

If you read my post, you could clearly see that Mega Venusaur beats all the common pokemon on sand in a 1 vs 1 scenario (tyranitar, excadrill, Landorus-T), and none of the flyspam members like switching in on it at all (talonflame, mega pinsir, even staraptor). How exactly is the metagame over prepared for it as you say?

Sand cuts your Synthesis recovery and wears you down. Excadrill can 2HKO after SR.

252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 152-179 (41.7 - 49.1%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Sandstorm damage

Lando-T can just U-turn out.

It doesn't matter if Flyspam members can't switch in (which they can btw you can't KO any of them on the switch) if you're forced out by them.

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 420-494 (115.3 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pinsir: 154-183 (56.8 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 156-184 (52.5 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Jaroda]

Haxorus = C-/C Haxorus is an amazing partner as was mentioned with other particular sweepers like Char X for its ability to destroy Stall and handle Unaware users and slower Fairies with SD Poison Jab as well as Taunt. Consider him a bulldozer for a different sweeper to tear through everything else. It's Double Dragon opposed to Birdspam in essence. The reason he stays C-/C though is because he really flounders against certain team archetypes and doesn't always pull its weight. Not to mention it can't switch into jack. Between LO, SR and Sand passive damage racks up quickly, and then there's the drawback of being Outrage locked with following confusion if you don't use a Lum berry. He's easy to revenge.

 

[WECAMEASROMANS]

Excadrill is 2hkoed by Giga Drain + Hp fire, and you cant 2hko it with the hp it recovers by Giga Drain. And I'm talking about the offensive tank set, which is max spatk. If you really wanna argue about this:

252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 210-247 (70.7 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 169-199 (62.3 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pinsir: 207-244 (76.3 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (its more fucked if it hasnt mega evolved yet)
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Staraptor: 234-276 (75.2 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

all of those are KOed with SR in place so i dont get what your definition of "switching in on Mega Venu" is. Also, Mega Venusaur pressures both sand stream users so keeping sand up on it is actually harder said than done.

 

[Terrakion.]

It kinda does matter if Flyspam members cannot switch in. They would rely on things like Brave Bird and other high recoil moves (Star and TFlame) which means they would die quicker. Also you said Landorus-T can U-Turn out, I don't think you get what he said, what would Lando U-Turn to? Also saying that it can U-turn out isn't supporting your argument.

I'm pretty sure he said "1v1 Scenario".

Also, against Excadrill, you gotta count for the Giga Drain recovery Venusaur would get so Excadrill is not 2HKOing Mega Venusaur.

EDIT: Damnit WCAR :[

 

[Karxrida]

Excadrill is 2hkoed by Giga Drain + Hp fire, and you cant 2hko it with the hp it recovers by Giga Drain. And I'm talking about the offensive tank set, which is max spatk. If you really wanna argue about this:

252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 210-247 (70.7 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 169-199 (62.3 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pinsir: 207-244 (76.3 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (its more fucked if it hasnt mega evolved yet)
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Staraptor: 234-276 (75.2 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

all of those are KOed with SR in place so i dont get what your definition of "switching in on Mega Venu" is. Also, Mega Venusaur pressures both sand stream users so keeping sand up on it is actually harder said than done.

Offensive Mega Venusauar recovers 108 HP max from Giga Drain while Earthquake does 200 out of 359 minimum. You'll be at 267 in a best-case scenario after using Giga Drain, then Sandstrom deals 22 damage so you'll be at 245. A max damage Earthquake does 238, meaning two high damage rolls or any priory damage and you're losing.

It kinda does matter if Flyspam members cannot switch in. They would rely on things like Brave Bird and other high recoil moves (Star and TFlame) which means they would die quicker. Also you said Landorus-T can U-Turn out, I don't think you get what he said, what would Lando U-Turn to? Also saying that it can U-turn out isn't supporting your argument.

I'm pretty sure he said "1v1 Scenario".

Also, against Excadrill, you gotta count for the Giga Drain recovery Venusaur would get so Excadrill is not 2HKOing Mega Venusaur.

EDIT: Damnit WCAR :[

So what if SR isn't up? What if you mispredict and use Giga Drain? What if they come in after something dies? You're losing, thus they are still checks.

Offensive Mega Venusaur also has no chance to survive any of their attacks while Defensive can at least survive some of them (too lazy to double check but I think it was surviving a CB Talonflame's BB) and you potentially give them a free SD while you switch out.

 

[AsynchronousIO]

Venusaur isn't going to S anytime soon. It's easier to wear down now that the meta is sand and fast paced, has trouble with fly spam (so what if TFlame/Raptor kill themselves dealing with you--that's what they do all the time), and most of the time, you'd rather use Amoonguss to check what it does because you want to be using Medi/Hera/Gard/Zard/Gyara instead. It's a good mon, but it's lost a bit of its luster.

I'm not sure about Mega Zam. It's fast and powerful, but I just don't see it in the same category as things like Skarmory, Slowbro, Amoonguss, Gyarados, and Breloom, which are pretty freaking good and tend to be able to do what they need to, and it takes your Mega slot when you'd rather use something reliable like the aforementioned Megas. Trace is nice sometimes (Tracing Sand Rush is hilarious, and getting Prankster from Thund can be nice too), but it isn't reliable, Focus Miss is deadly on something that is so frail, it wishes it had some nice STAB (funny how Psychic turned into such an eh attacking type when it was godly in Gen I), and it still gets shafted by most neutral physical hits.

Crawdaunt is p. nice. It's slow and frail but it has the strongest Aqua Jet and Knock Off in OU and can deal with sand somewhat decently because of that. LO + 4 Attacks is probably the best set, but if you're feeling daring you can use SD because Crawdaunt forces switches (for instance, if you manage to get Crawdaunt in on Excadrill after it has killed something, Exca will likely switch out for fear of getting AJ'd and you can boost on the switch, and boosted Aqua Jets are NOT something you want to be dealing with) or CB for extra kick because its moves are pretty spammable anyway. You can even run Aerial Ace somewhere if you want to fuck with Chesnaught, people in UU used to do that. It isn't easy to get it in, but once it gets in, something is gonna get maimed/crippled because this is one strong lobster. I'm just on the fence about a rank raise because it's slow as shit and rather frail and dead weight against bird spam, but it's good against sand and more defensive teams because Aqua Jet and Knock Off makes things crey.

---

I'm thinking about Volcarona. And I'm very sad about it because I actually love this mon very much. On one hand, its sweeper sets are next to impossible to use in this meta. On the other hand, it can still handle Ferrothorn/Celebi/Venusaur/Amoonguss for rain teams that have trouble with them because it has Hurricane, Bug Buzz, and Fire Blast. If there's one good set for Volcarona, it's probably this one. Not sure it's enough to keep it in C+ though.

 

[Prinz]

Venusaur isn't S rank material of course. Sand and flying spam are quite common and they both are rly good against it, also most of mon runs psychic /flying move to beat it. extrasensory greninja, hp flying / psychic thundurus, psychic landorus and hp flying keldeo are good examples. for sure it's a really good mon and it acts like a fantastic bulky pivot while being able to check threats like azumarill, keldeo and thundurus but thats definitely not S rank material.

 

[Scar Tissue]

Venusaur isn't S rank material of course. Sand and flying spam are quite common and they both are rly good against it, also most of mon runs psychic /flying move to beat it. extrasensory greninja, hp flying / psychic thundurus, psychic landorus and hp flying keldeo are good examples. for sure it's a really good mon and it acts like a fantastic bulky pivot while being able to check threats like azumarill, keldeo and thundurus but thats definitely not S rank material.

To the ugly frog plant's credit, there's a reason those mons are using psychic and flying coverage.