LC Zorua



Code:
QC: [Corporal Levi] [Rowan] [TCR]
GP: [fleurdyleurse] [GatoDelFuego]
Overview
########
Zorua is a unique Pokemon in LC thanks to its ability, Illusion, which can trick the opponent into thinking it's another Pokemon, allowing it to avoid getting hit by super effective moves. Zorua also has decent Attack and Special Attack stats, and with access to both Swords Dance and Nasty Plot, it can boost its stats to hit even harder. It also has a high Speed stat, which allows it to hit 17 Speed and outspeed Pokémon such as Pawniard. However, Zorua is very frail, and its Dark typing makes it weak to the many Fighting-types in LC. Its shallow movepool leaves it walled by Fairy-type Pokemon, which means it needs a lot of team support to help deal with these threats. However, thanks to Illusion, Zorua can avoid Fighting- and Fairy-type attacks if it copies a Poison-type Pokemon.

Life Orb Attacker
########
name: Life Orb Attacker
move 1: Nasty Plot / Knock Off
move 2: Dark Pulse / Night Daze
move 3: Extrasensory
move 4: U-turn / Hidden Power Fighting / Knock Off
ability: Illusion
item: Life Orb
evs: 36 Def / 196 SpA / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
ivs: 0 HP
nature: Timid / Naive

Moves
========

Nasty Plot boosts Zorua's otherwise mediocre Special Attack, allowing it to sweep through teams if its counters have been worn down. Knock Off can be used instead of Nasty Plot to remove items, as Zorua won't always have the opportunity to set up. Dark Pulse is Zorua's main STAB move, though Night Daze can be used too, as it has a 40% chance to lower the opponent's accuracy. Extrasensory is Zorua's only option to to hurt Fighting-types that would otherwise wall Zorua. U-turn is also another option to hurt Dark-types and gain offensive momentum, while Hidden Power Fighting can be used to deal with Dark-types, notably Pawniard, that might be a problem.

Set Details
========

This set uses Life Orb to help Zorua deal more damage, and with maximum investment and positive nature, it hits 17 Speed, which allows it to outspeed Pokémon such as Pawniard. 0 HP IVs are used to make Life Orb recoil deal only one HP.

Usage Tips
========

Zorua uses Illusion to keep super effective moves away; it mainly disguises itself as a Poison-type to keep Fairy-, Fighting-, and Bug-type attacks away and trick the opponent into using Psychic-type attacks. If Zorua is using Nasty Plot, it's preferable to not set up with Zorua until its checks and counters have been removed so that it can sweep without the fear of being revenge killed. Instead, try to set up when a Pokemon is forced out by whatever Zorua is disguised by. Also, it's preferred that Zorua is at full health, as a difference in HP between it and the Pokemon it's copying might let the opponent know that it's actually Zorua.

Team Options
========

Entry hazard support from Pokemon such as Dwebble and Tirtouga can assist Zorua insweeping. Another great example is Trubbish, as it's able to set up Spikes and also deal with Fairy- and Fighting-types; in return, Zorua deals with Psychic-types that threaten Trubbish. Hazard removers such as Drilbur and Archen are also important, as the damage received from entry hazards might ruin Illusion. Fletchling and other Flying-type Pokemon are also great teammates, as they help take down Fighting-types. Pokemon that can take down Fairy-types that Zorua cannot deal with are also necessary; examples include Magnemite, Pawniard, Trubbish, and Gastly.

Other Options
########

A Swords Dance set with Knock Off, Sucker Punch, and U-turn can also be used. Agility is an option to double Zorua's Speed, but Zorua lacks the raw power to sweep without boosts in its Attack or Special Attack stat, and it also has access to priority in Sucker Punch. Zorua can use Taunt, but most of its counters don't really have a problem with being Taunted, as they usually choose to attack and target Zorua's low defenses. Memento can be used to give the opportunity for a setup sweeper to come in and set up safely. Pursuit is also an option to trap Pokemon such as Gastly while disguised as a Pokemon that threatens the foe. Zorua can also use a Choice Scarf set with Trick.

Checks and Counters
########

**Fighting-types**: Fighting-types can deal with Zorua unless it has Extrasensory. Priority Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave from Timburr and Croagunk, respectively, deal a lot of damage to Zorua. Scraggy is also a nice counter as it's immune to Extrasensory.

**Fairy-types**: Fairy-types such as Spritzee and Snubull can wall Zorua and take it down with Moonblast and Play Rough, respectively.

**Dark-types**: Zorua cannot beat Dark-type Pokemon such as Vullaby that can tank its attacks. Pawniard also deals with Zorua as long as it doesn't carry Hidden Power Fighting.

**Choice Scarf Users and Faster Pokemon**: Choice Scarf users can easily revenge kill Zorua because of its low defenses; faster Pokemon can also play the same role but some such as Gastly must be wary of Sucker Punch.
 
Last edited:

Max Carvalho

Que os jogos comecem
An all-out-attacker set is a good idead. With a spread focusing on atk Knock Off will be hitting like a truck and Zorua has good special moves to cover some of its checks as well. Do add it. EDIT: Naive > Hasty on any set as the Def drop kinda sucks to deal with priority.
 

Max Carvalho

Que os jogos comecem
Mention on team support that you need hazard support on both sides; hazards will ruin Illusion as most times Zoruas will have a fighting-type as the last teammate. As such, Archen and Drilbur are good teammates to Zorua. This is quite obvious but its worth to mention on usage tips that both Zorua and the Illusion teammate must be at full health(Mienfoo is quite good for that without hazards ofc) In both sets on usage tips mention the opportunities Zorua has to set up NP and Swords Dance with Illusion. Also, I recommed not slashing Return in the SD set as the only relevant Dark-types hit neutrally by Return are Vanha, Scraggy and Vullaby. Zorua can't beat any of these. Instead I would slash Substitute which is cool as everything learns it, and Hidden Power Fighting, the only Dark-type Zorua can really win against (tho Scarf but without Missy it is going to be less common.)
 
i'm not qc but i think a really cool option on zorua is pursuit, for example coming in against gastly disguised as say, abra will pretty much guarantee it switching out, netting you a free kill. also, i think return probably deserves a slash on the sd set, as i don't really see much merit in sub, but thats just my opinion.
 

Corporal Levi

ninjadog of the decade
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I don't really see merit in an all-out attacking set because the Swords Dance set pretty much does what an all-out attacking set would do but with more sweeping potential.

Nasty Plot:
I'm not sure why you have 0 HP IVs and 36 HP EVs; try moving the HP EVs to Special Defense instead.
Split hazard setters and removers into to different points for team options, and give examples of hazard setters (drilbur, tirtouga, etc).
Mention that Pokemon who can force Fighting- and Fairy-type Pokemon out are also good partners by allowing Zorua to better take advantage of Illusion.

Swords Dance:
As with the above set, mention that Pokemon who can force Fighting- and Fairy-type Pokemon out are also good partners by allowing Zorua to better take advantage of Illusion.

Other Options:
Describe why Agility is not ideal (Zorua lacks the raw power necessary to sweep without boosts, and already has Sucker Punch).
Describe why Taunt is not ideal (most of Zorua's counters do not really mind Taunt, and if the opponent chooses to attack, Zorua's low defenses means the attack will often deal heavy damage).

Checks and Counters:
Add a Dark-type section. Mention that Vullaby is able to stomach any of Zorua's attacks and heavily damage in return with Brave Bird and Pawniard can beat sets without Hidden Power Fighting.

Excellent job :)
QC 1/3
 
hi i'm on qc now, i only have a few things to suggest. Add Trubbish to team options as it beats fairies/fighters/pawn, sets up spikes, and most things that switch into Trubbish really don't want to take a Knock Off from Zorua. Also, add examples in the faster pokemon section of C&C. Do that and QC 2/3
 

Rowan

The professor?
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I don't think Nasty plot is 100% necessary i think knock off and u-turn can both be slashed there, something like

NP/ knock off / uturn
dark pulse/night daze
extrasensory
hp fight / knock off

but those slashes look a bit messy, so i'm not quite sure yet, if someone could help me out, it'd be great. I just feel that you're not always gonna be able to set up so knock off+3 special attacks or u-turn+3 special attacks seems cool.


for now i'm going to reject the SD set, it has mono-coverage uses it's worse attacking stat, and return doesn't really help it much.
Obviously I haven't tested it so if anyone has any reasons why it should be a set, then please reply to this.
but yeah, Pawniard is a thing why would I use SD zorua when I can use SD Pawniard
 
I don't think Nasty plot is 100% necessary i think knock off and u-turn can both be slashed there, something like

NP/ knock off / uturn
dark pulse/night daze
extrasensory
hp fight / knock off

but those slashes look a bit messy, so i'm not quite sure yet, if someone could help me out, it'd be great. I just feel that you're not always gonna be able to set up so knock off+3 special attacks or u-turn+3 special attacks seems cool.


for now i'm going to reject the SD set, it has mono-coverage uses it's worse attacking stat, and return doesn't really help it much.
Obviously I haven't tested it so if anyone has any reasons why it should be a set, then please reply to this.
but yeah, Pawniard is a thing why would I use SD zorua when I can use SD Pawniard
Yes I do agree about removing the SD set, I wasn't adding it until someone told me to do so because apparently it's as good as the NP set (?), it was never tried out and even on paper it seems so poor compared to the NP set and SD Pawniard.
 

tcr

sage of six tabs
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lol remove sd set, and please expand on your descriptions. They are all subpar.

switch hp fighting and u turn on the NP set, zorua will probably be disguised as a fighting type anyway, meaning things like pawniard are probably not going to switch in. It also means you already have a Fighting type on your team. qc 3/3
 

Rowan

The professor?
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NP/ knock off
dark pulse/night daze
extrasensory
u-turn / hp fight / knock off

me and TCR discussed and we think that should be the slashes
 

Rowan

The professor?
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
you didn't slash knock off anyway

in usage tips give examples of pokemon it's good to disguise yourself as

do that and then move to GP
 

frenzyplant

Inertia is a property of matter.
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amcheck :)

add remove (comments)

Overview
########
(line breaks after headers can improve readability but are not necessary)
Zorua is a unique Pokemon (change all instances of é to e) in LC thanks to its ability Illusion, which makes the opponent think that it's another Pokemon, (comma) which allowings it to keep super effective moves away. Zorua also has decent Attack and Special Attack stats, (comma) and with access to both Swords Dance and Nasty Plot it can boost them to hit even harder. (comma to period) It also has a high Speed stat which allows it to hit the 17 Speed tier. But However, Zorua's has low defenses which makes it really frail, (comma) and its Dark-typing makes it weak to the common Fighting-type moves. (period) and Additionally, its shallow movepool makes it walled hard by allows Fairy-type Pokemon to hard wall it, which makes so it in needs of a lot of team support, but though thanks to Illusion it can avoid Fighting- and Fairy-type attacks if it copies disguises itself as a Poison-type Pokemon.

Life Orb Attacker
########
name: Life Orb Attacker
move 1: Nasty Plot / Knock Off
move 2: Dark Pulse / Night Daze
move 3: Extrasensory
move 4: U-turn / Hidden Power Fighting / Knock Off
ability: Illusion
item: Life Orb
evs: 36 Def / 196 SpAtk / 36 SpDef / 236 Sped
ivs: 0 HP
nature: Timid / Naive

Moves
========

Nasty Plot boosts Zorua's mediocre Special Attack, (comma) which is mediocre otherwhise which allowings it to sweep through teams if its counters are down. (comma to period) Knock Off can be used instead of Nasty Plot as you won't always have the opportunity to set up. Dark Pulse is Zorua's main STAB move; (comma to semicolon) Night Daze can be used too instead as it has a 40% chance to lower the opponent's accuracy. Extrasensory is its Zorua's only option to to hurt the Fighting-types that resist its STAB moves may wall it instead. U-turn is also another option to hurt Dark-types and gain offensive momentum. (comma to period) Hidden Power Fighting can also be used too to deal with Dark-types, mainly Pawniard, that may be a problem.

Set Details
========

This set uses Life Orb as an item to helps Zorua do deal more damage. (comma to period) and with Maximum Speed investment and a Speed-boosting nature allows it to EVs it hits 17 in Speed, (comma) with a positive nature which allowings it to outspeed slower Pokemon such as like Pawniard. (period) and The Special Attack EVs allow it to reach 17 in Special Attack, while 0 HP IVs are used to make Life Orb recoil deal only one HP damage. (no mention of the natures?)

Usage Tips
========

Zorua uses Illusion to keep super effective moves away. (comma to period) It mainly should disguises itself as a Poison-type to keep super effective Fairy-, Fighting- and Bug-type attacks away and trick the opponent into using Psychic-types attacks on it you. If you're using Nasty Plot it's preferable to not set up with Zorua until its Zorua's checks and counters are down so that it can sweep without the fearing of getting being revenge killed, (comma) and when a Pokemon is forced out you should take the opportunity and set up with to use Nasty Plot. Also, it's preferred that Zorua is at full health, (comma) as a difference in HP between it and the Pokemon it's copying disguising itself as might make allow the opponent to figure out know that it's actually Zorua.

Team Options
========

Entry hazards support from Pokémon like hazards setters such as Dwebble and Tirtouga help Zorua sweep. (comma to period) Another great example of a hazards setter is Trubbish, which is not only as it's able to set up Spikes and but also deal with Fairy- and Fighting-types, while aswell Zorua deals with the Psychic-types (dash) that threaten Trubbish it. Hazards removers like such as Drilbur and Archen are also important as the damage received from Stealth Rock hazards damage may ruin Zorua's Illusion. Fletchling and other Flying-type Pokemon are also great teammates as they help take down Fighting-types. Pokemon that can take down Fairy-types, such as Magnemite, Pawniard, and Gastly, are also necessary, as that Zorua has a problem to with dealing with Fairy-types. are also necessary, some of these Pokémon are Magnemite, Pawniard and Gastly.

Other Options
########

A Swords Dance set with Knock Off, Sucker Punch and U-Turn can also be used. Agility is an option to double its Zorua's Speed. (period) but However, it's not really ideal because Zorua lacks the raw power to sweep without boosts in its Attack or Special Attack stat, (comma) and it also has a priority attack in Sucker Punch, so the Speed boost will not matter. Zorua can use Taunt, but most of its counters don't really have a problem with it being Taunted as they will usually choose to attack and do deal a huge amount of damage because of its Zorua's low defenses. Memento can be used to give a setup sweeper the opportunity to set up sweeper to come in and set up safely. Pursuit is also an option to trap some Pokemon, including like Gastly, while Zorua disguisinges itself as a Pokemon that threatens the foe. Zorua can also use a Choice Scarf set with Trick.

Checks and Counters
########

**Fighting-types**: Fighting-types can deal with Zorua unless it has Extrasensory. (comma to period) Priority Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave from Timburr and Croagunk respectively do a lot of damage to it. Scraggy is also a nice Zorua counter as it's immune to Extrasensory.

**Fairy-types**: Fairy-types like Spritzee and Snubbull can wall Zorua and take it down with their Moonblast and Play Rough respectively.

**Dark-types**: Zorua has a problem to can't deal with bulky Dark-type Pokemon like such as Vullaby that can tank its attacks and hit back hard. with a powerful Brave Bird, Pawniard also deals with Zorua that lack as long as it doesn't carry Hidden Power Fighting.

**Choice Scarf users and faster Pokemon:**: Choice Scarf users and faster Pokemon can easily revenge kill Zorua because of its low defenses. (period), faster Pokémon can also play the same role.
 

fleurdyleurse

nobody,not even the rain,has such small hands
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hi
Overview
########
Zorua is a unique Pokémon in LC thanks to its ability, Illusion, which makes the opponent think that it's another Pokémon which, allowsing it to keepnot be hit by super effective moves away. Zorua also has decent Attack and Special Attack stats, and with access to both Swords Dance and Nasty Plot it can boost themits stats to hit even harder,; it also has a high Speed stat which allows it to hit the 17 sSpeed tier. ButHowever, Zorua has low defenses which makes it really frail, and its Dark- typing makes it weak to the common Fighting-type ands; its shallow movepool makes it walled hard by Fairy-type Pokémon, which makes it in need of a lot of team support, but, thanks to Illusion, it can avoid Fighting- and Fairy-type attacks if it copies a Poison-type Pokémon.
Life Orb Attacker
########
name: Life Orb Attacker
move 1: Nasty Plot / Knock Off
move 2: Dark Pulse / Night Daze
move 3: Extrasensory
move 4: U-Turn / Hidden Power Fighting / Knock Off
ability: Illusion
item: Life Orb
evs: 36 Def / 196 SAtk / 36 SDef / 236 Spd
ivs: 0 HP
nature: Timid / Naive
Moves
========
Nasty Plot boosts Zorua's Special Attack which is mediocre otherwhise whichmediocre, allowsing it to sweep through teams if its counters are down,. Knock Off can be used instead of Nasty Plot as you won't always have the opportunity to set up. Dark Pulse is Zorua's main STAB move, though Night Daze can be used too as it has a 40% chance to lower the opponent's accuracy. Extrasensory is its only option to to hurt Fighting-types that maywould otherwise wall it instead. U-Tturn is also another option to hurt Dark-types and gain offensive momentum,; Hidden Power Fighting can be used tooinstead to deal with Dark-types, mainnotably Pawniard, that may be a problem.
Set Details
========
This set uses Life Orb as an item to help Zorua doeal more damage, and with maximum EVs, it hits 17 in Speed with a positive nature, which allows it to outspeed Pokémon likesuch as Pawniard; it andlso gets 17 in Special Attack,. 0 HP IVs are used to make Life Orb recoil deal only one HP damage.
Usage Tips
========
Zorua uses Illusion to keep super effective moves away,; it mainly disguises itself as a Poison-type to keep Fairy-, Fighting- and Bug-type attacks away and trick the opponent into using Psychic-types attacks on you. If you're using Nasty Plot, it's preferable to not set up with Zorua until its checks and counters are down so that it can sweep without fearing gettbeing revenge killed and; when a Pokémon is forced out, you should take the opportunity andto set up with Nasty Plot. Also, it's preferred that Zorua is at full health, as a difference in HP between it and the Pokémon it's copying might make opponent know that it's actually Zorua.
Team Options
========
HEntry hazards support from Pokéemon likesuch as Dwebble and Tirtouga help Zorua sweep, a. Another great example is Trubbish, as it's able to set up Spikes and also deal with Fairy- and Fighting-types aswell; in refurn, Zorua deals with Psychic -types that threaten itTrubbish. Hazards removers likesuch as Drilbur and Archen are also important, as the damage received from Stealth Rock may ruin Illusion. Fletchling and other Flying-type Pokémonemom are also great teammates as they help take down Fighting-types. Pokéemon that can take down Fairy-types that Zorua has a problem tocannot deal with are also necessary, some of these Pokémon are Magnemite, Pawniard and Gastly.
Other Options
########
A Swords Dance set with Knock Off, Sucker Punch and U-Tturn can also be used. Agility is an option to double its Speed, but it's not really ideal because Zorua lacks raw power to sweep without boosts in its Attack or Special Attack stat, and it also has access to priority attack in Sucker Punch. Zorua can use Taunt, but most of its counters don't really have a problem with it as they usually choose to attack and do a huge amounts of damage because of its low defenses. Memento can be used to give the opportunity tofor a set up sweeper to come in and set up safely. Pusrsuit is also an option to trap some Pokéemon like Gastly while disguising as a Pokéemon that threatens the foe. Zorua can also use a Choice Scarf set with Trick.
Checks and Counters
########
**Fighting-types**: Fighting-types can deal with Zorua unless it has Extrasensory,; priority Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave from Timburr and Croagunk, respectively, doeal a lot of damage to it. Scraggy is also a nice counter as it's immune to Extrasensory.
**Fairy-types**: Fairy-types like Spritzee and Snubull can wall Zorua and take it down with their Moonblast and Play Rough, respectively.
**Dark-types**: Zorua has a problem tocannot deal with Dark-type Pokémons like Vullaby that can tank its attacks and hit back with a powerful Brave Bird,. Pawniard also deals with Zorua as long as it doesn't carry Hidden Power Fighting.
**Choice Scarfers and faster Pokéemon:**: Choice Scarf Pokémon canusers easily revenge kill Zorua because of its low defenses,; faster Pokémon can also play the same role.

gp 1/2
 
Last edited:

Goddess Briyella

Banned deucer.
Before I let this go any further, I need to know why Sucker Punch does not even have a slash. I can understand the lack of Swords Dance, but not the lack of Sucker Punch. Zorua is only 17 Speed at maximum; a Life Orb-boosted 120 Base Power priority attack is way too clutch to not recommend somewhere on the set, especially when it has Illusion. Relegating it to Other Options is criminal.
 

tcr

sage of six tabs
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Before I let this go any further, I need to know why Sucker Punch does not even have a slash. I can understand the lack of Swords Dance, but not the lack of Sucker Punch. Zorua is only 17 Speed at maximum; a Life Orb-boosted 120 Base Power priority attack is way too clutch to not recommend somewhere on the set, especially when it has Illusion. Relegating it to Other Options is criminal.
It was discussed by Rowan and I and deemed too gimmicky to be used on the main set, even alone as just Sucker Punch. Sucker Punch has as much utility as Taunt / Pursuit / Memento, in only being useful in extremely niche situations. If we included Sucker Punch then we would have had to slash things like Pursuit or Taunt or whatever as well, thus resulting in an extremely messy main set with 50 different 4th move options. Better to be relegated to OO than to be the 7th option for a 4th move, we had to draw the line somewhere.
 

Goddess Briyella

Banned deucer.
It was discussed by Rowan and I and deemed too gimmicky to be used on the main set, even alone as just Sucker Punch. Sucker Punch has as much utility as Taunt / Pursuit / Memento, in only being useful in extremely niche situations. If we included Sucker Punch then we would have had to slash things like Pursuit or Taunt or whatever as well, thus resulting in an extremely messy main set with 50 different 4th move options. Better to be relegated to OO than to be the 7th option for a 4th move, we had to draw the line somewhere.
Sucker Punch is not niche at all when you get STAB out of it and it lets you get a hard 120 BP attack against faster enemies. Taunt and Memento function totally differently; one prevents setup and one eases setup for a teammate of your own; both have their individual uses. Pursuit and Taunt are not necessary if Sucker Punch is an option; Pawniard doesn't need them to make good use of Sucker Punch and the same is true for other examples. Zorua can make even better use of it because its ability hides it, making the Sucker Punch even harder to predict.

I haven't had a lot of time to test it lately but I will within the next few days for sure. It's natural that a Pokemon with so many different options will have a crammed moveset if you're only going to give it one set, but making sure it can perform at its best in key circumstances is infinitely more important than leaving important moves off the set for the sake of keeping a single set from having too many slashes. I spoke with Rowan about this briefly and we thought that maybe we might need two sets here. I'll be back with calcs and other information after testing, but I'm pretty sure Sucker Punch is very important. Off the top of my head, Dazzling Gleam Gastly destroys this set and there's nothing Zorua can do about it with its current options. This is only one important flaw that can be patched up with the inclusion of Sucker Punch. Being able to get a hard hit against Fletchling before it can move is also very good, especially since Zorua does not resist Flying like Pawniard does.
 

tcr

sage of six tabs
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Sucker Punch is not niche at all when you get STAB out of it and it lets you get a hard 120 BP attack against faster enemies. Taunt and Memento function totally differently; one prevents setup and one eases setup for a teammate of your own; both have their individual uses. Pursuit and Taunt are not necessary if Sucker Punch is an option; Pawniard doesn't need them to make good use of Sucker Punch and the same is true for other examples. Zorua can make even better use of it because its ability hides it, making the Sucker Punch even harder to predict.
its not about whether they go well together (Pursuit / Taunt / Sucker Punch). They are as useful on Zorua as Sucker Punch is. For example, no one will expect an Illusioned Croagunk to use something like Memento or Taunt. Just because you can get away with using Sucker Punch doesn't mean that you should. The only things that are ever going to outspeed 17 Speed Zorua, of note, are things like Abra, Scarf Pawniard, Gastly, Scarf Bunnelby, +1 Carvanha, Scarf Chinchou, and possibly one or two other random Scarf mons I'm forgetting about. The only one where having Sucker Punch would really matter would be on like Chinchou and Bunnelby, as you obviously do not do a ton of damage to Carvanha and Bunnelby, and you can bluff Illusion just as well and simply hit Gastly and Abra with a Dark Pulse. I truly do not see what sets Sucker Punch apart from Taunt and Memento and Pursuit in utility (Pursuit probably has better utility as you can bait switches like crazy), and I would rather not cram tons of moves into the 4th slot.

I haven't had a lot of time to test it lately but I will within the next few days for sure. It's natural that a Pokemon with so many different options will have a crammed moveset if you're only going to give it one set, but making sure it can perform at its best in key circumstances is infinitely more important than leaving important moves off the set for the sake of keeping a single set from having too many slashes. I spoke with Rowan about this briefly and we thought that maybe we might need two sets here. I'll be back with calcs and other information after testing, but I'm pretty sure Sucker Punch is very important. Off the top of my head, Dazzling Gleam Gastly destroys this set and there's nothing Zorua can do about it with its current options. This is only one important flaw that can be patched up with the inclusion of Sucker Punch. Being able to get a hard hit against Fletchling before it can move is also very good, especially since Zorua does not resist Flying like Pawniard does.
Two different sets would be fine, but it would probably end up being the exact same Life Orb set. Zorua has the problem of having some good moves to use, but no base stats to just start trying crazy sets like Misdreavus did. At best it has a 4th slot filler, with A tier options like U-turn or Knock Off and then sub-tier options like Taunt or Memento. Also afaik people do not run Dazzling Gleam Gastly, and it is about as common as Thunderbolt Misdreavus was. Hitting Fletch isn't really saying a whole lot, being that you lose even if they switch into rocks (0 Atk Life Orb Zorua Sucker Punch vs. 156 HP / 92 Def Fletchling: 12-16 (52.1 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock) while Fletchling OHKOes you with Acrobatics. So you can't even try a Fighting-type bait with that. Again, I'm fine with a second set possibly being added if people agree on it, even though it will probably be incredibly hard to find a set that isn't the exact same main set with one or two different moves. Along in that vein, I am heavily against simply slashing Sucker Punch in, as that creates a giant mess of where to draw the line on viability. I could just as easily argue for Pursuit as a 4th slash, getting to 5 moves, and then adding on Taunt to that for 6, and then add on things like Snarl if you want to drop the bar lower. For the record, I was against adding Knock Off as well, to give you the idea of my standards for this particular Pokemon.
 

Goddess Briyella

Banned deucer.
Being able to have a priority hit against Scarf Bunnelby, Fletchling, and Gastly (which will all go first and kill) with Sucker Punch is very important.

236+ Atk Life Orb Zorua Sucker Punch vs. 156 HP / 92 Def Fletchling: 17-21 (73.9 - 91.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

236+ Atk Life Orb Zorua Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 52 Def Bunnelby: 17-21 (85 - 105%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


This is pretty cool. It doesn't 100% kill them from full health after Stealth Rock, but it only takes a small amount of prior damage to assure the KO on both. But that's fine; it's the nature of priority moves to pick off weakened foes anyway.

Also afaik people do not run Dazzling Gleam Gastly, and it is about as common as Thunderbolt Misdreavus was.
I see it quite often, but there's also this:

196 SpA Life Orb Gastly Hidden Power Fighting vs. 0 HP / 36 SpD Zorua: 21-26 (105 - 130%) -- guaranteed OHKO

196 SpA Life Orb Gastly Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 36 SpD Zorua: 21-27 (105 - 135%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Zorua dies easily to one of Gastly's STAB moves and two of its coverage moves. Abra also outspeeds and OHKOes with either of these commonly run coverage attacks it uses. Being able to Sucker Punch here would be very crucial.

I understand your points here. I'm going to test a more physical Zorua on an offense team with hazards, and I'll come back with replays and how it went. If it's cool, it's cool. If it's not, it's still certainly worth checking on it to see.
 

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