Questions/Problems when East meets the West

[Cresselia~~]

There are a lot of differences between people from the East and people from the West side of the planet.
Our planet is huge, and we often don't understand each other.

Here are a few questions/ problems that I, as an Asian, cannot comprehend and it was never explained:

1. West: "Don't play with food"
Why? Just why? People from the West treat this as a basic when having meals. But they don't seem to be able to explain it.
In Asia, playing with food is common among children. Some Japanese restaurants even have a suggested play style for some food (e.g. ice cream cookie. You are provided with a kit and a guide)

2. West: "Dogs are man's best friend"
Just WTF?? Why dogs? What about your cat? What about your horse?
There has never been any scientific support to this statement, but a lot of Westerners love to state it.
Also... does that suggest you have problems with other humans?

3. West: (referring to dog meat and rabbit meat) "This is so cruel!"
Well, I'd probably shut up if the person is vegetarian or vegan, but most of the time they are not.
What's the difference between eating pigs/ cows/ sheep than dogs or rabbit?

============

Right, so post stuff you don't understand about the other side of the planet.
See if we can answer each other's questions.

 

[chimp]

"Don't play with your food" pretty much only refers to at formal gatherings where manners are expected. I dont know what those kind of events are like in Asia, but as you've stated, playing with your food is primarily a kid's thing, so it makes sense to not do it in a place where you are expected to act like an adult. Or because who ever serving the food has actually laid parasites in it to lay their eggs inside your small intestine, and playing with your food may accidentally reveal them. I guess there are potato/marshmallow guns and spray cheese so I guess that kinda counts? I once had a toy dog that you could make poop out jellybeans.

Dogs have been humanities closest "ally" for centuries, ever since we were hunting and living in caves and whatnot. Also, they are very loyal to their owners unlike cats and horses and goldfish. The "man" referred to in that phrase does not refer to just one individual "man" but to humanity as a whole.

I know a lot of people who gladly eat rabbit. Not so much dog since dogs are so domesticated and a big part of the average family's daily life. I guess it would be the same if like 2/3 of every Western household had a pet cow or pig. I bet someone who DOES own a pet pig will be very against bacon and ham-and-cheese sandwiches.

I have a question:
I don't know where in Asia you live, so I don't know if you can answer this but, I'm just wondering what the Chinese think of Fortune Cookies. I'm like 99% sure they were invented in America.

 

[Trax]

1. West: "Don't play with food"

Because food is for eating, for adults anyway. Children can play with their food and it's generally okay.

Should be noted this is also more of a vaguely formal dining thing.

2. West: "Dogs are man's best friend"

In many European cultures Dogs occupy the position of a common persons companion for hunting, herding, or protecting them and their home.

This cannot be said for horses (primarily owned by wealthy people historically speaking) or cats (which do not protect you or help herd or hunt).

3. West: (referring to dog meat and rabbit meat) "This is so cruel!"

Not my experience with regard to Rabbit but perhaps this is unique to Australia because Rabbits are a pest here rather than native animals, as for Dog, see my answer to #2.

 

[Cresselia~~]

Dogs have been humanities closest "ally" for centuries, ever since we were hunting and living in caves and whatnot. Also, they are very loyal to their owners unlike cats and horses and goldfish. The "man" referred to in that phrase does not refer to just one individual "man" but to humanity as a whole.

Ah, it seems that Asian ancestors do not really share this trait.
Or at least, people here rarely keep dogs since most residential buildings do not allow dogs. (As barks can be quite disturbing in a densely populated living place)
But I guess dogs are indeed more loyal.

I know a lot of people who gladly eat rabbit. Not so much dog since dogs are so domesticated and a big part of the average family's daily life. I guess it would be the same if like 2/3 of every Western household had a pet cow or pig. I bet someone who DOES own a pet pig will be very against bacon and ham-and-cheese sandwiches.

I somehow think that people on Smogon are generally a lot more mature and more tolerant to different cultures.
Because normally, I have to deal with English comments that mock Asians as being the cruel race for either dog meat or rabbit meat or whatever meat that they don't consume. But really, meat is meat. We get mocked for something we don't understand.

I personally draw a line if an animal is endangered. But most other Asians don't care about this neither.

I have a question:
I don't know where in Asia you live, so I don't know if you can answer this but, I'm just wondering what the Chinese think of Fortune Cookies. I'm like 99% sure they were invented in America.

lol. I'm part Chinese and grew up in Hong Kong, let me answer that for you--
Most of us haven't heard of fortune cookies until we end up in UK or USA.
We found it surprising. And we are like "what?" when we see people obsessed with fortune cookies.

In many European cultures Dogs occupy the position of a common persons companion for hunting, herding, or protecting them and their home.

This cannot be said for horses (primarily owned by wealthy people historically speaking) or cats (which do not protect you or help herd or hunt).

Well... thought a large portion of British at least owned a pony.
At least most British people I know own at least one.

I used to ride one during my stay in the UK, and it knows how to greet me, play with me, bargain with me, etc.
I liked it a lot and truly miss it now that we are separated from each other.

Never owned a dog though.

 

[~Eon~]

"Don't play with your food" pretty much only refers to at formal gatherings where manners are expected. I dont know what those kind of events are like in Asia, but as you've stated, playing with your food is primarily a kid's thing, so it makes sense to not do it in a place where you are expected to act like an adult. Or because who ever serving the food has actually laid parasites in it to lay their eggs inside your small intestine, and playing with your food may accidentally reveal them. I guess there are potato/marshmallow guns and spray cheese so I guess that kinda counts? I once had a toy dog that you could make poop out jellybeans.

No, you aren't supposed to play with food because it is disrespectful to poor people that can't afford to meet their nutritional needs. Less privileged families are often malnourished and there you are using food as play things.

 

[Cresselia~~]

No, you aren't supposed to play with food because it is disrespectful to poor people that can't afford to meet their nutritional needs. Less privileged families are often malnourished and there you are using food as play things.

Oh, that makes more sense.
No wonder why those people said it angrily.

 

[dwarfstar]

No, you aren't supposed to play with food because it is disrespectful to poor people that can't afford to meet their nutritional needs. Less privileged families are often malnourished and there you are using food as play things.

As someone who grew up poor and was still told not to play with my food, I rather doubt this is the correct explanation. I was always told it was a manners issue.

 

[billymills]

its cause parents don't want to deal with the mess

 

[Jellicent]

Playing with food when you're poor is actually kinda worse, since you're just being wasteful. It's also disrespectful regardless towards whoever took the time and money to make your food.

As for the dogs and rabbits thing, they're generally seen as cute, which kinda saves them from being feasted on. Besides Babe and the pig from Charlotte's Web, cows and pigs aren't usually associated with cuteness, so people feel less guilty about it. Chickens and fish are even less cute, so even some "vegetarians" will eat them.

Also, dogs have the "man's best friend" thing going for them, which is basically because they're incredibly loyal and will actually defend their owners and homes, unlike many other domesticated animals. Plus, y'know:

too cute <3

 

[Brap]

Well... thought a large portion of British at least owned a pony.
At least most British people I know own at least one.

Have you only visited the posh stuck-up parts of the south? (I'm British so I'm allowed to insult my own country). Nobody I know personally owns a 'horse' as they're called (A pony is a specific small horse, which are even less common among 'average Brits'). Horses require a lot of open space, so it's pretty much impossible for anyone in a city to own one.

I used to ride one during my stay in the UK, and it knows how to greet me, play with me, bargain with me, etc.
I liked it a lot and truly miss it now that we are separated from each other.

That's how people here feel about their pets.

Never owned a dog though.

You should. Get one. I'd never owned a dog until a few years ago. I have been pleasantly surprised to say the least :')

 

[Myzozoa]

"I emphasize in it [my Orientalism] accordingly that neither the term Orient nor the concept of the West has any ontological stability; each is made up of human effort, partly affirmation, partly identification of the Other."

http://www.greatissuesforum.org/pdfs/said_orientalism.pdf

 

[Cresselia~~]

You should. Get one. I'd never owned a dog until a few years ago. I have been pleasantly surprised to say the least :')

No. Most living places in Hong Kong do not allow dogs.
Caninephobia is actually very common here. As in being afraid of dogs, not hating dogs.
("phobia" is so misused these days)
Myself included. Not that something went wrong or anything, but I think it's genetic alike arachnophobia.

"I emphasize in it [my Orientalism] accordingly that neither the term Orient nor the concept of the West has any ontological stability; each is made up of human effort, partly affirmation, partly identification of the Other."

http://www.greatissuesforum.org/pdfs/said_orientalism.pdf

LOL Everything is like the same to you.
Including your views on races.

Time to point out that the Eastern culturesphere and the Western culturesphere is vastly different. People have different tastes and saying that we are all the same simply implies you haven't really been to the other side of the planet. (Or have gone through it too quickly before you socialize with any locals)

 

[Myzozoa]

By supposing that there are essentially distinct spaces and categorizations for people and cultures, it is you, not I, imposing similarity on things.
good reaction tho, my post was essentially just a joke in reference to the title of the thread.

 

[vonFiedler]

Damn near all foreign food that is popular in America is highly Americanized.

3. West: (referring to dog meat and rabbit meat) "This is so cruel!"
Well, I'd probably shut up if the person is vegetarian or vegan, but most of the time they are not.
What's the difference between eating pigs/ cows/ sheep than dogs or rabbit?

Social responsibility.

We as a species have permanently affected the natural growth of pigs/cows/sheep/horses/dogs/cats in radical and astonishing ways. Most of them can't easily exist in the wild now. For an animal that we have bred for use as food, it is our social responsibility to at least ensure that they lead comfortable lives and don't suffer in death. For animals that we have bred to live with us, work with us, and become members of our families, we have a social responsibility to treat them to any inalienable rights that can be given to a being of very minor sentience. This should extend to not killing them, and so certainly extends to not eating them.

Rabbits though are still wild animals who cares eat em all you want.

 

[Cresselia~~]

New questions for you:

How come Westerners have a problem with humanoid Pokemon?
This is especially obvious when they are voting for Pokken Tournament candidates!
Most Japanese people nominate humanoids for that, but Westerners are all like humanoid-phobic.

 

[Cherub Agent]

Would you like jynx in pokken?

 

[Cresselia~~]

Would you like jynx in pokken?

Well... Jynx has like 5 Japanese votes now, so I'm not the only one.

Would imagine the Western fan-base to freak out though, if it happens.
But arcade games aren't that big in the West, so I'm still going to selfishly place my vote.
We are the ones who are going to play it, and even if it gets released in USA, I seriously think that Americans should stop being so ethnocentric all the time.

Seriously, Japanese people like to see Jynx, mostly not due to they like her, but because they find her a target to tease. (Gentle teasing though, not disrespectful jokes)
That's why they want Mega Jynx and to have Jynx on Pokken.
They do not harbor the negativity and disrespectful spite about the racism crap. It just shows how mean and disrespectful some Westerners (especially English speakers!!) are.
Seriously, nobody in Japan associates Jynx with black people. But on DeviantArt, English speakers keep drawing Jynx in a black culture way that's disrespectful.

 

[Trax]

New questions for you:

How come Westerners have a problem with humanoid Pokemon?
This is especially obvious when they are voting for Pokken Tournament candidates!
Most Japanese people nominate humanoids for that, but Westerners are all like humanoid-phobic.

It's mostly Jynx people are uncomfortable with because the visual appearance of Jynx is very close to that of the white actors in blackface that were commonly playing an ugly and insulting stereotypical caricature of black people (as seen by racist whites in the American south during the slavery and later segregation years that does persist to this day in parts) in black and white minstrel shows. Given segregation and slavery are seen as two of the great crimes against humanity in the western world, you could see why a visual reference to those times makes people uncomfortable.

 

[vonFiedler]

How come Westerners have a problem with humanoid Pokemon

We aren't?

This is especially obvious when they are voting for Pokken Tournament candidates!
Most Japanese people nominate humanoids for that, but Westerners are all like humanoid-phobic.

We really aren't.

Like honestly I'm the opposite, that game shouldn't have the musketeers in it.

 

[Slashari]

They do not harbor the negativity and disrespectful spite about the racism crap. It just shows how mean and disrespectful some Westerners (especially English speakers!!) are.
Seriously, nobody in Japan associates Jynx with black people. But on DeviantArt, English speakers keep drawing Jynx in a black culture way that's disrespectful.

This is most likely because of the long history of racial tensions present in the US, some of which still exists today, albeit not at the level of the Jim Crow or slavery eras. In Japan, I don't recall anything near the level of what went on here happened, so I guess that's where the difference originated. Another thing, I've always seen the mocking of Jynx as people (Americans) not liking its design because it brings up racial stereotypes like blackface, an obvious low point in our country's history. We aren't trying to be mean, rude, disrespectful, or whatever you want to call it towards the design, but it can be seen as racist and greatly resembles things a lot of people here don't like to think about. Slavery and racism are two things that the US in particular has had major "issues" (to put it lightly) with in the past and is seen as a cultural taboo to bring up in a derogatory way, and whether indirectly or not, Jynx does this.

As an English-speaking Westerner, sorry for what some of my brethren have done to make you stereotype us as all being disrespectful :[

Edit: Also yeah Jynx is pretty lame

 

[vonFiedler]

Honestly I always just thought Jynx was lame and so did most of my friends. Like I wouldn't want Mr. Mime in either.

 

[Cresselia~~]

A lot of Japanese people are voting for Mr. Mime in Pokken.
Seriously.

Not that I like Mr. Mime, lol.

This is most likely because of the long history of racial tensions present in the US, some of which still exists today, albeit not at the level of the Jim Crow or slavery eras. In Japan, I don't recall anything near the level of what went on here happened, so I guess that's where the difference originated. Another thing, I've always seen the mocking of Jynx as people (Americans) not liking its design because it brings up racial stereotypes like blackface, an obvious low point in our country's history. We aren't trying to be mean, rude, disrespectful, or whatever you want to call it towards the design, but it can be seen as racist and greatly resembles things a lot of people here don't like to think about. Slavery and racism are two things that the US in particular has had major "issues" (to put it lightly) with in the past and is seen as a cultural taboo to bring up in a derogatory way, and whether indirectly or not, Jynx does this.

As an English-speaking Westerner, sorry for what some of my brethren have done to make you stereotype us as all being disrespectful :[

Edit: Also yeah Jynx is pretty lame

I'm not like stereotyping you all as disrespectful. Just that I've seen SOME people who are totally outrageous. And that we haven't seen stuff like that in our place before.

I think Jynx on it's own is not really a stereotype. But people on DeviantArt ARE making stuff worse by drawing obvious black culture things, in which I think Africans would be offended. Like, if I imagine myself to be African, I would probably be offended by those.
I'm not talking about people hating Jynx's design. It's ok to hate a Pokemon's design. I'm talking about people who USE it to do racist things.

(But sometimes, I do wish some people to be more considerate when they express their dislike. )

I think people have to know that Jynx is not a result of a design fail. Its ugliness is intended. This combination is probably the ugliest possible combination you can draw, from an Asian point of view. (In Asia, big mouth and dark skin are very undesired)
It's so ugly that it's really funny to look at. I've seen a lot of people laugh when they see it. Like, it's way more uglier than the ugliest thing they could imagine.
It is created for people to tease on. So that people target on it, rather than bullying real-life people.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Hmmm... as far as I can tell, there are often just as great or even greater differences between groups of Asians than those with westerners...

Well, at differences or no, we seem to hate each other more than we do westerners (this is especially awkward for me being of both Chinese and Japanese descent).

Actually, this is a good example because the difference in mind set and culture between Japan and China is sooo starkly different; and it's not unusual for them to be be more similar to foreign countries than each other in certain values.

For example a typical Japanese person's insistence on attention to detail, proper procedure, strict schedules, and expectation to mutually avoid conflict would probably be better understood by a German person than a Chinese person-- with the German and Japanese likely to feel similarly awkward in s typical Chinese haggling market.

On the other hand, Thais and Filipinos would probably feel disenchanted by Chinese AND Japanese comparatively cold human interactions, need for mutual space and lack of physical contact. It's not hard to imagine them feeling more comfortable with a Spaniard or Italian (who in turn are probably much more similar in personality to the Thais than to the Germans!).

I'd go into your individual examples if I could access from my computer, but I'll leave this post as is.

 

[vonFiedler]

There are a lot of things regarding animals that westerners think of as self-evident, which simply aren't-- if only because it isn't the case for much of the rest of the world.

Why not raise a dog for eating?

Western notions of animal cruelty are just not in any way self-evident nor inalienable, but the 勝手な idealisms of just one tiny fraction of humanity (yes, overwhelmingly the minority).

I don't feel as if you just addressed anything I said (on the issue of our treatment of domestic animals) with that post. Why not raise a dog for eating? Read the paragraph again to find out. I didn't say these notions were self-evident... which is why I was the first to properly explain them. Also I don't suspect you know the meaning of inalienable, something isn't inalienable just because it passes a global popularity contest. It is by definition something you cannot take away, whether or not it suits your cultural biases.

Easterners feel differently about dogs because they were not the ones who elevated these domestic animals to the human relations they have today - but that doesn't change the fact that these animals have been bred for those relations and that there is a social responsibility to protect them. This is not a "self-evident" subject in the west either; we treat dogs/cats with far too little right to life ourselves. But you cannot just get away with doing something wrong just because your culture is at large okay with it. It's not selfish to fight for animal rights, no matter how much of a minority ideal you think that is.

(and it's pretty cowardly to insult me in another language)

 

[Cresselia~~]

It's not even an insult.
Calm down.

Well... Buddhism didn't specifically forbid dog meat, but all meats are discouraged in Buddhism anyway. Moreover, if you are a monk, you are expected to be strictly vegan.

I think he means you are pressing your own ideals onto him, in which he doesn't feel it the same way, and that forcing your own opinion on the others are considered as selfish.
What I feel is this: some people simply do not find dog-eating wrong. Being offensive towards these people is being immature and inconsiderate.
Unless you can find a good reason to oppose dog meat, you really should leave these people alone.

I acknowledge that to most Westerners, dogs are kept as pets so you have this special feeling towards dogs. That's why you feel you should oppose dog meat instead of pig's meat.
But if you think deeper, it really isn't a logical thing to set a difference between dogs and pigs.

To be honest, I find it completely hilarious how some Westerners aren't vegetarian but oppose dog meat.
I don't harbor the same feeling towards vegetarians. I admire them. There are many times that I tried being vegetarian.
But saying that something is bad, whilst doing something that's equally as bad, is so funny. It feels like you have double-standard too.

Not that I eat dogs. But it certainly isn't something I would oppose neither. And I truly get annoyed when my race gets mocked for doing it.