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Hida! In this thread, you may post your CAP 19 work-in-progress and final stat spread submissions for the community and the TLT's consideration and make comments on other peoples' submissions. At the conclusion of this thread, our Stats Leader Deck Knight will decide on a slate for voting based on the community's input. In the Stats Limits thread, our Topic Leadership decided on the following limits that all stat spread submissions must adhere to:
Limits:
Physical Sweepiness: 90-120 Physical Tankiness: 110-150 Special Sweepiness: 190-230 Special Tankiness: 110-150 Base Stat Rating: 275-325
BSR ABUSE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED AND WILL NOT BE SLATED!
BSR abuse is doing things like 150 HP and 70 Def/SpD to create a theoretical optimum with the limits that you have. The purpose of the stat rating limits is to restrict what submitters can do, not to give them a license to game the system. If you cannot justify your stats legitimately and have not proven that you aren't just making the best stats within the limits, you will not get slated.
Here is a spreadsheet for calculating Physical Sweepiness, Physical Tankiness, Special Sweepiness, Special Tankiness, and Base Stat Rating. To use the spreadsheet, you will need Microsoft Excel 2007 or higher, OpenOffice.org Calc 3 or higher, or a similar spreadsheet program that can handle .xlsx files. Alternatively, you can upload the spreadsheet onto Google docs. You must have the stat rating values listed correctly in your submission or it will be ignored for the slate. If you want to dig a little deeper into how these numbers are calculated, read the contents of this link.
When you are satisfied with your stat submission, mark it as finished by writing "Final Submission" (bolded) at the top of your post. Submissions that lack a bolded "Final Submission" at the top of the post when this thread closes will not be slated.
This thread will be open for submissions and discussion when Deck Knight has posted his opening comments.
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CAP18 so far:
Concept:
Yilx said:
Name: Einherjar ~Acta Est Fabula~
Description: A Pokemon that dissuades your opponent from fainting it, or can even leave it's presence on the field felt even after it faints.
Justification: When a Pokemon faints, it's usually thought of as the battle having gotten down to a 5-6. However, we've yet to discover if a Pokemon can leave a lasting impression on the battle even after having fainted; be it through moves like Healing Wish and Destiny Bond, placing hazards that the opponent can't remove as their removal has been taken care of, or by leaving an opponent's key member weakened and/or taken out.
Questions To Be Answered:
How can a Pokemon leave a long-lasting effect on the rest of the battle with just it's moves?
How the hell is it different from simply ramming a sacrificial martyr into your opponent's team and hoping it punches holes in it?
Building on the previous question, is it possible to build this Pokemon as a defensive threat rather than a "Glass Cannon"?
Is it even possible for a Pokemon to leave a lasting effect on on the battle, even after it faints?
Could changing your opponent's way of thinking even be plausible? From, "I need to take CAP X out!", to, "Damn, if I take CAP X out, I'll be in trouble...!"
Just a few brief instructions and we'll get on with this process.
The most important things to bring out of your stat spreads are solid calculations based on our threats and threatened lists, as well as Pokemon you think would arise as a natural response to CAP - that post is reproduced below.
Pwnemon said:
Closing time.
As I kind of expected, there wasn't very much novel we learned in the department of "what do we want the CAP to be threatened by?" Alexwolf's list was a good one that people seemed to agree on for Pokemon that Gyarados could set up on, so we'll work from that.
alexwolf said:
Landorus
Keldeo locked into anything except from Hidden Power Electric / Scald
Excadrill outside of sand
Landorus-T
Garchomp
Greninja
Mega Scizor and regular Scizor
Choiced Fire-types (Choice Band Talonflame locked into Flare Blitz, Scarf Heatran, Scarf and Band Victini locked to anything other than Bolt Strike)
Hippowdon without phazing
Gliscor that lacks Toxic and is not faster than Mega Gyarados + Taunt (EQ + Knock Off SpD Gliscor, SR + Taunt + U-turn Gliscor)
Dragon Dance Dragonite
Mamoswine
Starmie without Thunderbolt
Weavile
Rhyperior without Toxic / Roar
Tyranitar and Mega Tyranitar (except from CB Stone Edge, which does over half)
As I said earlier, we need not check every box on this list. However, it'd be nice to check as many of them as possible, to give Gyarados more opportunites to set up. This list is where all of our hard counters should come from.
It's important also to note however, as ginganinja said, that we shouldn't be setup bait for anything which could then use the setup to take on Gyarados. For example, Garchomp is on alexwolf's list, but we shouldn't let it Swords Dance before it attacks CAP19 or else Gyarados cannot set up on it. CAP19 should lose to Garchomp, but be threatening enough to force it to attack right away.
As for what CAP19 should threaten—it should threaten defensive Pokemon and pivots which Gyarados has trouble handling. These include but are not limited to Ferrothorn, Slowbro, physically defensive Amoonguss, Alomomola. If possible, it should also be able to beat Gyarados's more offensive counters such as Thundurus, Mega Aerodactyl, and Mega Manectric, but these are a secondary priority.
Finally, because our primary ability is Storm Drain, +1 SpA calcs with various relevant investments for your arguments should be included for both Water-typed attack users and Pokemon you believe would be paired with them on a competitive team in a metagame with this CAP's competitive parameters. It is safe to assume STAB moves and coverage moves that do directly threaten foes we want to threaten (ex. Ferrothorn, Amoongus) and do not directly threaten Pokemon we want to counter CAP. Naturally some Pokemon, like Greninja and Starmie, are weak to our STABs and are threats primarily as checks and not counters should CAP be slower in your particular submission.
I thought a more offensive build was necessary to fulfill the role of a fast and powerful support to gyarados. I’m that kind of player who believes a strong offence is the best defence, since, if they don’t fight back, what are you defending for? My goal was to give the CAP the ability to threaten top tier threats, but due to not being the exact counterpart for gyarados, there are a few exceptions. I’m basing most of my special attack assumptions off the fact that I don’t believe that CAP 19 is going to be given fire/ice move coverage outside of hidden power. Also, it's a given that the CAP will probably get moves like wish, destiny bond and healing wish, since it is supposed to leave a lasting presence on the field, even if it has been KOed, as per the concept.
I chose this speed because I can see mega pinsir and meinshao cause problems to gyarados , as, mega pinsir gets STAB bug moves to counter mega gyarados, and no-one really wants to take an aerialate thrash, and meinshao can hit very hard with high jump kick. So with base 106, CAP 19 gets the jump on base 105. However, if the team has a good answer to Pinsir and mien, then you can drop the speed EVs by 28 to just outspeed max speed garchomp. This lets you invest in other stats, though it may not be the best. Also, it has a seed factor of 709, when at max speed, so it can destiny bond/healing wish before most of the unbosted metagame.
The physical bulk lets CB talonflame never OHKO with flare blitz, and never 2HKO with brave bird. It can take physically defensive slowbro's psychic, and get an OHKO back. The bulkier sets never OHKO with psychic. It also turns LO thundurus-I thunderbolt have an 86% chance to 3HKO, Megaman's overheat rarely 2HKOs (including the -2 SPatt drop), even if it is at +0 on the second overheat, survives mega Aerodactyl's stone edge, CB azumarill 2HKOs
Physical:
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magikarp: 270-318 (83.8 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magikarp: 211-250 (65.5 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magikarp: 153-181 (47.5 - 56.2%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO
Special:
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Magikarp: 112-133 (34.7 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Magikarp: 125-148 (38.8 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Magikarp: 183-216 (57 - 67.2%) -> 91-108 (28.3 - 33.6%) Around a 1 in 128 chance to be 2HKOed
4 SpA Slowbro Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Magikarp: 222-264 (68.9 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Celebi Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magikarp: 236-278 (73.5 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Right, first thing is that you need to make are decisions on the CAP. I wanted it to be able to certain things but it then can limit what else it does. For example, without decent fire/ice moves outside of Hidden power, you face your first decision. Go for HP ice to damage ground types, or maybe ferrothorn isn't your cup of tea, and decide on giving it HP fire over HP ice. Now, I then thought people would use black sludge as an option. This then means that some OHKOs should become 2HKOs. 130 SpA with a timid nature means: garchomp is never OHKOed by HP ice without a boost (assuming nit having a -SDef nature), OHKO on physically defensive slowbro with life orb (can switch in on a scald and devastate with thunderbolt), gets the OHKO on most azumarill sets (OHKO on all azumarill with life orb, barring AV sets. Azumarill also can give CAP 19 a storm drain boost with a water move, causing most sets to fall easily), 2HKO with HP fire on ferrothorn, 3HKO on amoonguss with sludge wave, OHKO on standard LO thundurus-i after stealth rocks, OHKO on mega aerodactyl (except in sand) and more. If it is taking SE damage from thunderbolt or sludge wave, it is usually going to be KOed. We can get most of the major counters to gyarados stopped, however there are a few things that can be annoying. Terrakion outspeeds and can carry earthquake, which is dangerous, but that becomes a mind game: close combat or stone edge the gyarados. get the wrong one and you lose
252 SpA Life Orb Magikarp Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 486-577 (120.2 - 142.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Magikarp Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 390-463 (109.2 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Magikarp Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 300-356 (84 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Magikarp Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 463-546 (117.5 - 138.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Magikarp Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowbro: 478-564 (121.3 - 143.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Magikarp Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 168-199 (38.8 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Magikarp Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 224-265 (63.6 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Magikarp Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 486-577 (120.2 - 142.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Magikarp Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 243-289 (81.2 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Magikarp Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T: 243-289 (81 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (With the chance to poison and/or entry hazards, both thundurus are going down)
252 SpA Life Orb Magikarp Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Aerodactyl in Sand: 268-320 (89 - 106.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Magikarp Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 243-289 (86.4 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Magikarp Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Celebi: 299-354 (74 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Nothing much to say. Don't really need any attack since it is mainly a special attacker, and most of it's STABs are special.
I used to think very fast but not absurdly strong was the way to go, but not now that we've settled on a Special Attacker. HP Ice v Landorus and Garchomp is a huge no-no for me. I'll stick at 100 ty :)
So let's start off with a slightly pushed variant of CAP and see where the discussion takes us.
Base HP: 57
Base Attack: 60
Base Defense: 115
Base Special Attack: 123
Base Special Defense: 90
Base Speed: 125
Total Base Stats: 570
It's distribution is:
PT: 140.00
ST: 110.82
PS: 101.45
SS: 219.80
BSR: 311.63
So lets start off with a few things:
Why are his Defensive stats so high and his Health only 57, when there are plenty of combinations of HP/Def/Sp. Def that accomplish the same result?
There are a few reasons for this actually. First of all, most Gyarados teams want a Cleric to get rid of statuses, and most Clerics have Wish. This means we can make CAP more synergistic with what that team already tries to do to help it integrate better. Since Chansey is a set-up opportunity for Gyarados, this also leads to a situation where a Chansey with Seismic Toss is in a good position to take out CAP, rather than being a useless fat blob. In addition, it's typing also sets us up for Parabolic Charge in the movepool, and if CAP gets it, we want low health in order to take advantage of incremental life-gain.
The reason it's 57 specifically is because if it gets 4 EV in HP, it's Health is 256, which is cleanly divisible by 16 for the Black Sludge buff if that ends up being his best item.
The 115 Def. is so that Talonflame can't 2HKO it with Brave Bird, and the 90 Sp. Def. is so Zapdos isn't a hard counter.
Why 123 Special Attack and 125 Speed?
Mega-Pinsir in the case of the Speed, and Heatran in the case of its Special Attack.
A Modest CAP will be able to outspeed Mega Pinsir, which is necessary if we want to kill that when it carries Earthquake. Since Mega-Gyarados gets killed by Mega Pinsir, that's something that needs to happen.
A Modest CAP will also need 123 to knock down a Specially Defensive Heatran's Substitute with Discharge without having to be strapped to a Life Orb to do it, so Heatran can't just set up. The same applies to Gliscor. Not only that, but it allows CAP to beat Mega-Gardevoir after Stealth Rock damage. It also means that it hits hard enough after the Storm Drain boost that it forces a Choice Scarfed EQ user in to kill it, which is amazing for us.
Checks/Counters:(CAP represented by Probopass)
Amoongus: Amoongus wins if CAP is Spored, otherwise CAP wins. This isn't perfect pair, though. Amoongus isn't incredibly well positioned right now, so somebody else can take it
252+ SpA Probopass Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 186-220 (43 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery.
Venusaur:
252+ SpA Life Orb Abomasnow Sludge Bomb vs. 232 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 173-204 (48.1 - 56.8%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
This would normally be enough, but Venusaur has Leech Seed and Synthesis, so it isn't.
Medicham: It doesn't die to our moves and OHKO's us and 2HKOs Gyarados favorably even if Gyarados goes for Dragon Dance.
252+ SpA Probopass Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Medicham: 178-211 (68.1 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Probopass: 338-402 (132 - 157%)
Garchomp: It always OHKOs CAP and it naturally outspeeds Gyarados and it has Rough Skin.
I think you can just trust me that CAP doesn't take Garchomp well.
Excadrill: Excadrill can check provided CAP doesn't have Fire Blast, which we might end up giving it.
Things Gyarados sets up on: Though this is more by design than by accident.
Outpaces Charizard and Mega Gardevoir, ties with Landorus Incarnate, and is slower than Garchomp. I think that we should at least tie with Charizard and Mega Gardevoir, because we're talking about three very different threats here that could force CAP 19's hand if it's slower and they manage to switch in safely.
So why 101 as opposed to 100? I do think that the difference between 100 and 101 isn't as critical as it used to be, say, way back in DPP when it helped get Garchomp banned. It should be noted that, should CAP 19 not get Fire-type or Ice-type coverage outside of Hidden Power, and since Hidden Power Fire lowers the Speed IV, the builder will probably have to choose between breaking through Ferrothorn and Magnezone, and maintaining maximum Speed. The latter option may mean tying with Charizard and Mega Gardevoir if the base Speed is 100, or tying with Landorus if the base Speed is 101.
Sure, Landorus Incarnate is supposed to be a possible check, but I just want to err on the side of breaking stuff that would hamper Mega Gyarados's (and, to some extent, Dragonite's) efforts to sweep, regardless of the Speed IV that CAP 19 uses. I suspect that many builders would rather be walled by Ferrothorn than give three different Megas more room than necessary, and such a lopsided choice is, I think, bad for CAP 19. It doesn't even cleanly OHKO Mega Charizard Y or Mega Gardevoir without a Life Orb or other boost, even with maxed out SS (139 SpA / 100/101 Spe in this case), but that just makes me want to outpace them more. A severely weakened Mega Charizard Y or Mega Gardevoir is still loads helpful to the cause.
There is certainly a case to outpace some other Pokemon, such as Mega Pinsir and Terrakion, but I figure CAP 19's already going to be strongly considering an Air Balloon, and the threat of a Thunderbolt would make Earthquake Pinsir think twice about trying to use Swords Dance. I want to focus more on wall-breaking than trying to outrun stuff. Gardevoir and Charizard aren't Pokemon that we can just screw with using Air Balloon, so outrunning them is more justifiable. Offensive variants of Mega Charizard X win in most cases regardless.
Same as Amoonguss. Basically, this is for greater recoil damage on Talonflame. Plus, it provides some BST control without making the Attack outrageously low (Rotom is at 50), and it makes it a bit harder to invest effectively in bulk without committing. The disadvantages are more HP healing from opponents' Leech Seed and unnecessarily making 101 HP Substitutes possible, but I see these as comparatively minor issues, especially since this spread can't do much to Chansey to begin with, at least without certain non-attacking moves.
This spread functions reasonably well as an emergency check to the likes of Choice Band Talonflame and Mega Manectric. To wit:
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP 19: 149-176 (40.2 - 47.5%)
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP 19: 124-147 (33.5 - 39.7%)
252 SpA Manectric Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP 19: 174-205 (47 - 55.4%) -> 87-103 (23.5 - 27.8%)
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP 19: 133-156 (35.9 - 42.1%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP 19: 131-155 (35.4 - 41.8%)
I suspect that a physically defensive set might be tried to check such powerful attackers harder, but the choice of Speed means that it could be a tough call. Being slower than the likes of Gliscor, Excadrill, SubToxic Heatran, Mega Charizard Y and Mega Gardevoir is no laughing matter, as Mew could probably attest.
I suppose it's also worth mentioning that Greninja and Starmie easily OHKO this spread with their Psychic-type STABs. It does have a chance to survive Starmie even after Stealth Rock with max HP:
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP 19: 361-429 (83.5 - 99.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
However, it's difficult to avoid this without being significantly worse against Talonflame. In fact, the high HP on this spread actually mitigates the issue more than perhaps other spreads with similar PT.
CAP 19 wants to break certain walls and discourage sweepers from setting up. The most notable accomplishment of 130 SpA is the following:
252 SpA CAP 19 Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 186-220 (51.5 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
What this means is that Excadrill can check CAP 19, but if it's sniped by a Hidden Power Fire, then it's game over. It also means that CAP 19 could beat non-Scarf Excadrill using Air Balloon shenanigans. So yeah, Excadrill is still a check, but considering it's one of the more dangerous checks (especially if Sand Rush is involved), I think that this is fair.
Some other notable hits:
252 SpA CAP 19 Hidden Power Ice vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 336-396 (95.4 - 112.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA CAP 19 Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 204-240 (57.9 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 186-220 (43 - 50.9%) -- 54.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA CAP 19 Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 354-416 (89.8 - 105.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 240-284 (86.6 - 102.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA CAP 19 Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 264-312 (88.8 - 105%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 SpA CAP 19 Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 300-356 (83.7 - 99.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA CAP 19 Hidden Power Fire vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 144-170 (44.4 - 52.4%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 144-169 (47.6 - 55.9%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 242-286 (56 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Hidden Power Ice vs. 244 HP / 192+ SpD Gliscor: 317-374 (90 - 106.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 148+ SpD Mega Charizard X: 179-212 (49.8 - 59%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem-B: 220-261 (56.2 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 243-289 (86.4 - 102.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (eh, close enough imo)
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 32 SpD Assault Vest Raikou: 133-156 (41.4 - 48.5%) -- 71.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
There are two other reasons for going for high power rather than more speed or bulk. The first is that it lessens the need for coverage moves. This allows CAP 19 to have tricks other than just attacking stuff, while still being limited by the speed factor against certain ubiquitous fast threats. The other reason is that it controls the effects of Storm Drain more due to diminishing returns. If all you need is a Life Orb to break through certain walls, then you're really not sweeping much better with the boost than without it. At the same time, the option of trying to play for a boost or using a Life Orb is an interesting one to have.
I guess there isn't a whole lot to say other than what I've said to distinguish my submissions from others, because the Def is only 4 below what would ride the PT limit, and I suspect that few will go above 130 Special Attack.
Overall, at first glance it may seem I’m pushing a few boundaries with my spread, but I eased back on the Special Tankiness both to compensate for this and because I don’t think having fantastic special bulk is necessary. Physical bulk, however, was a bigger concern to me. Earthquakers are going to KO us no matter what we have for physical bulk, so I felt going fairly high was justifiable, since it allows us to survive non-stab Psyshocks from Fairies. In terms of speed, I’ve been paying attention to the various arguments and think that 100 provides a good middle ground of losing to Garchomp/Landorus and beating Mega Gardevoir.
I changed this to 100. Really, it allows us to outspeed a fair amount. Ultimately, I just took the arguments regarding Landorus and HP Ice to heart. I think 100 is favorable against Mega Gardevoir as well, since Gardy needs a turn to mega evolve and get her speed boost anyway, and she doesn’t want to risk speed ties to boot.
First off, just want to say things I do NOT want us to KO Alakazam. 252 SpA Life Orb CAP19 Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 212-251 (84.1 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This barely doesn’t KO, which is great, since we want fast/frail psychics to KO us.
Now onto Azumaril, something Gyarados doesn’t want to take a hit from. 252 SpA CAP19 Sludge Wave vs. 228 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 374-444 (93.9 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Keep in mind this is against decently bulky band Azu, as the calc shows some HP invested. Furthermore, this calc is with an itemless CAP19. With an expert belt or life orb, this is a sure KO. I also became somewhat worried about assault vest Azu, since Bulldoze could wreck CAP19. However, at 131 Sp Atk, if for some reason we’re carrying specs, CAP19 still can almost always OHKO… albeit with Thunder. 252 SpA Choice Specs CAP19 Thunder vs. 16 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 336-396 (97.3 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
So, overall, I tried to balance the special attack stat to barely avoid KOs on Alakazam and to usually KO bulky Azus.
Another benefit of 131 Sp Atk is that it allows us to KO Gardevoir with sludge bomb/sludge wave if we’re holding expert belt or life orb, or if Gardevoir has taken SR damage and we don’t have an offensive item.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP19: 220-260 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
If we want to beat choice specs Sylveon, we either need ridiculous sp atk (168 base sp atk + life orb to 1hko 242 HP Sylveon, unless my calc program is off) OR the ability to survive its hit and the ability to 2hko in turn by being faster. I think having such high special attack is unrealistic, so instead I took the route of surviving that psyshock. It should also be noted that at this defense stat, Life Orb Alakazam still OHKOs us with room to spare, meaning we can still lose to notable psychic types like we want to.
I was somewhat concerned with Hidden Power Ground from notable Special Attackers, such as Keldeo or Gothitelle, but getting enough bulk and staying within the ST guidelines didn’t seem too reasonable.
Ultimately, I decided on 98 Sp. Def in order to just barely survive a Mega Manectric Overheat at +1 the vast majority of the time. I mean, in the end, it’s not unreasonable to assume a Manectric might nab a +1 since we have electric STAB. +1 252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP19: 222-262 (85 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
After stealth rock, we have a fair chance of KOing Mega Manectric with Sludge Wave (at 131 Sp Atk + Life Orb), meaning we’ll either KO it and prevent it from messing with Gyarados, or we’ll cripple it severely to the point where it could probably be picked off easily at a later time.
99 Sp Def also allows us to lose to plenty of Psychic users that aren’t using Psyshock.
I could have used more HP and less of the defenses to have achieved a bulkier mon, but overall I wanted to find a balance that helped show good physical bulk and moderate special bulk, and having a lower HP stat helped me with this. Also, low HP mons are easier to wish pass to, and overall I hoped the low HP would help keep the mon in check. He’s not a defensive behemoth, and I wanted to make him more physically bulky than specially bulky, and trying to have a higher HP would mess with this to some extent, especially with the PT/ST limits. To a lesser extent, the smaller HP helps against leech seed, and I see Ferrothorn/Mega Venusaur as potential threats against both Gyarados and CAP19—this still doesn’t make us a Ferro/Mega Venu counter by any means, however.
This spread is pretty cool as it does nearly everything we want while minimizing the things we don't.
Everyone is getting their panties in a bunch over this speed issue but imo it is a terrible idea to be under 106 and therefore 101...
The way that I see it, being able to OHKO Landorus and Garchomp is only a problem because it is a distractor towards two things which CAP SHOULD be doing which is: 1. Dying to EQ and EP from the two so that M-Gyara can set up on them, and 2. (imo) running HP Fire so that Scizor can't set up on us too much and so that we can smack Ferrothorn with HP Fire
If anything, having this option is good for the opponent as it gives them less of an incentive for going for the supposed "easy kill" on CAP rather than making the "smarter play, even if it is for the wrong reason (as in, the opponent should look into the future and notice that if they kill CAP, then M-Gyara gets a free set-up turn and can easily sweep at that point).
ANYWAYS, for the reason why I chose 106 speed is obviously for M-Pinsir, and therefor M-Garde, as well as being slower than Keldeo which is necessary as Keldeo is an excellent set-up bait Pokemon for Gyarados. M-Pinsir is the reason why I decided to go through all of this drama as losing to Pinsir is a TERRIBLE choice as M-Pinsir wrecks not only M-Gyara and CAP, but also any other possible set-up sweeper that might be paired with CAP. Even though EQ is less common on M-Pinsir with the M-Mawile and Aegislash ban now, it is important to note that these M-Mawile is allowed for this playtest (Please correct me if I am wrong) and EQ will be somewhat common as a result if Pinsir is used.
70 / 105 / 95 Defenses, I will admit, is a little arbitrary. However with these Defenses we do hit a couple of defensive benchmarks which is nice. I will let the calcs do the talking.
PHYSICAL CALC: 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 113-133 (40.2 - 47.3%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 226-267 (80.4 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 128-151 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 185-218 (65.8 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 211-250 (75 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 96-114 (34.1 - 40.5%) -- approx. 31.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 51-61 (18.1 - 21.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 276-325 (98.2 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO +2 44+ Atk Mega Scizor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 215-254 (76.5 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 99-117 (35.2 - 41.6%) -- 85.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 276-325 (98.2 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 133-157 (47.3 - 55.8%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO
SPECIAL CALCS:
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos: 172-203 (61.2 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos: 304-359 (108.1 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos: 62-73 (22 - 25.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery <- very little damage :]
252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos: 153-180 (54.4 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
->-2 252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos: 76-90 (27 - 32%) -- 49.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos: 42-49 (14.9 - 17.4%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos: 72-84 (25.6 - 29.8%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos: 97-114 (34.5 - 40.5%) -- 55.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery <- very nice :]
125 SpA is a lot more conservative than a lot of these spreads, but i think it kind of needs to be conservative since I have a higher speed than most of the other spreads. However, you don't really need that high of a SpA as 125 accomplishes /everything/ that we need to do... I think.
65 Attack,,,,, very nice,,, we r abov average; sweeps for days,
4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe+ @ Leftovers (or @ Expert Belt or w/ SR in order to make the calcs fit .trl in the next set of calcs... jk this is enough :] ) 252 SpA Ampharos Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 236-278 (85.1 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO <- you need an obscene amount of SpA to OHKO 100% of the time with no modifiers (EB / SR) so this calc is prob the worst one but a necessary one unless you want 160 / 106 Stats lol
252 SpA Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 230-272 (69.4 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Ampharos Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable: 330-390 (83.7 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-> 252 SpA Ampharos Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable: 218-260 (55.3 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery <- nice n clean 252 SpA Ampharos Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 196-232 (55.6 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Mandibuzz: 270-318 (63.8 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 314-372 (115.8 - 137.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Ampharos Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Scizor: 232-276 (67.6 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Ampharos Sludge Wave vs. 232 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 129-153 (35.9 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO <- best case scenario = no SpD so we are not beating this :[ 252 SpA Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 150-177 (54.7 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Ampharos Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 144-169 (47.3 - 55.5%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Ampharos Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 181-214 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Ampharos Sludge Wave vs. 16 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 186-222 (53.9 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You've seen the calcs but the truth is that this will be a very difficult Pokemon to use as we hope it will, because each battle is different and consistently being able to act as Death Fodder is a difficult. However, the breadth of Pokemon which we can "lose" to with these stats is good enough to make it more reliable than others.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 286-337 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 257-304 (76 - 89.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 225-265 (66.5 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 162-192 (47.9 - 56.8%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 126-148 (37.2 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Slowbro Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 210-248 (62.1 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
52 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 172-204 (50.8 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The key here is simply to not be OHKOed by any of the above Pokémon, as all of them possess a threat to Mega Gyarados at a certain level. This is the minimum PT that we can have to not get one-shotted by Talonflame; as its priority bypasses any Speed boosts that Gyarados may gain, I want to be able to kill it so Gyarados doesn't have to kill it unboosted. Mega Aero and Terrakion both like to threaten regular Gyara with Stone Edge, so we can tank them and retaliate. As for Azumarill, it threatens Mega Gyara with Play Rough, so we can use our defensive typing to tank it and hit back with a couple of Sludge Waves or Thunderbolts. Same goes for Keldeo even if he Choice-locks into Secret Sword, or Slowbro if it tries to Psyshock. Another physical attack we lose to is Seismic Toss from Chansey; 98 HP is the highest HP possible to prevent us from creating 101 HP Subs. We do not want to beat Chansey because she is setup bait to Gyarados, particularly variants with Taunt. 98 is also a very strong Leftovers number, and Lefties take advantage of our plethora of resistances, most notably to Electric, Flying, Fairy and Fighting.
252+ SpA Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 174-205 (51.4 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 105-125 (31 - 36.9%) -- 72.8% chance to 3HKO (guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery)
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 211-248 (62.4 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 165-195 (48.8 - 57.6%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
-2 252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 83-98 (24.5 - 28.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO
These are the main Special Attacks that I believe we should be tanking. We can take a hit from Kyurem-B from either side, and Sludge Wave will 2HKO with SR up, even if Kyurem-B holds Lefties. We also take on Mega Manectric one-on-one, and will never be 2HKOed by Overheat even if SR is on our field. As for Thundurus, he can't do anything to CAP unless he carries the rare Psychic.
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 281-333 (83.1 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Thus, unless Psychic Thundurus becomes a thing, we are in the clear.
Additionally, we lose to what we want to:
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 330-390 (97.6 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 361-429 (106.8 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Thus, we tank some of Gyarados' counters AND lure in two potential setup opportunities.
Obviously, CAP is not a physical attacker, so Attack is pretty much a dump stat. 56 is not an unrealistic Attack stat for a fully evolved mon, either, and it makes the BST a clean 555.
252 SpA CAP Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable: 336-396 (85.2 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA CAP Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 183-216 (65.1 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA CAP Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 157-186 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO (guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock or Life Orb recoil)
252 SpA CAP Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Aerodactyl: 366-432 (121.5 - 143.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA CAP Sludge Wave vs. 16 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 186-222 (53.9 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA CAP Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 200-236 (56.8 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Unown Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 236-282 (85.1 - 101.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
252 SpA CAP Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 384-452 (114.9 - 135.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO (but keep Sturdy in mind)
252 SpA CAP Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 183-216 (61.2 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA CAP Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Mandibuzz: 270-318 (63.8 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA CAP Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 314-372 (115.8 - 137.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA CAP Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 348-410 (88.3 - 104%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA CAP Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 254-302 (85.5 - 101.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA CAP Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 184-218 (50.8 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA CAP (any 90 BP coverage move that hits Amoonguss SE) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 230-272 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
As all of the aforementioned Pokémon are threats to Mega Gyara, being able to offensively threaten all of them is key. 126 Sp. Attack is the lowest needed for us to 2HKO Amoonguss with the proper coverage move, assuming our CAP gets one. I bumped it up to 127 to reliably kill Slowbro after SR. 109 Speed is necessary to outspeed Mega Gardevoir, Mega Pinsir, and especially Terrakion. I do not foresee underspeeding Thundurus as a problem, unless, again, he begins carrying Psychic. 127 / 109 gives us the incentive to run a +Speed nature as opposed to a +Sp. Attack nature, as we need to get the jump on Terrakion if we want to protect Mega Gyarados from it. Though we do beat Landorus-I, that's not a bad thing, as it often carries Focus Blast to mess with Mega Gyara. Beating Garchomp may be problematic, though some sets carry Stone Edge, which messes with regular Gyara, which alleviates the high speed somewhat. As much as I know that we should lose to Garchomp, the fact that we outspeed it should be incentive enough to NOT run HP Ice. We have better things to do than to knock out those two. Additionally, we should beat Terrakion, so outspeeding him is the way to go without inflating our PT. Also, at 109 Speed, we are beaten by Greninja and Starmie every time. Therefore, if we eliminate one of Gyarados' counters, which shouldn't be that tough with this spread, Greninja or Starmie can come in, clean us up, and then proceed to have Mega Gyara sweep.
All following calculations assume 4 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Speed Timid with Life Orb.
Offensive Calculations
252 SpA Life Orb CAP Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 235-278 (54.3 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb CAP Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 445-525 (112.9 - 133.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb CAP Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 429-507 (108.8 - 128.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb CAP Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 468-556 (118.7 - 141.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb CAP Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 235-278 (78.5 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb CAP Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 304-359 (109.7 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb CAP Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Skarmory: 374-439 (111.9 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb CAP Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 277-328 (91.1 - 107.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb CAP Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 380-452 (106.1 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb CAP Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 354-416 (99.1 - 116.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb CAP Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 406-478 (125.6 - 147.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb CAP Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 234-278 (64.8 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb CAP Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 156-185 (51.8 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Defensive Calculations
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 108-128 (40.2 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 217-256 (80.9 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 362-428 (135 - 159.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Ground vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 288-340 (107.4 - 126.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 676-804 (252.2 - 300%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 436-516 (162.6 - 192.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This set cleanly OHKOs Clefable, Slowbro, Keldeo and Mega Gardevoir with its STABs, doing the same to Skarmory if Sturdy has been broken. Assuming a Storm Drain boost, it gains a 50% chance to OHKO physically defensive Rotom. With Hidden Power of the appropriate types, it also gains a OHKO on either Quagsire or non-Scarf Garchomp. Hidden Power Fire deals enough damage to prevent Excadrill from being able to set up on it, making it much easier for Gyarados to handle.
Defensively, the CAP would avoid being revenged by Talonflame's Brave Bird unless it was already below 50% HP. Furthermore, the only versions of Keldeo to threaten the CAP would be either Assault Vest or Choice Scarf with Hidden Power Ground, neither of which affects Mega Gyarados in the least.
Work in progress, also my first time submitting a stat spread, so go easy on me please!
HP: 80
Attack: 59
Defense: 78
Special Attack: 132
Special Defense: 100
Speed: 101
BST: 550
Reasoning:
Speed:
In order to keep Ground types as checks, I felt it was essential that we were slower than Landorus-I and Garchomp, as using abysmally low Sp Atk to avoid a HP Ice KO is not an option. However base 100 speed puts us into ugly speed ties with Mega Gardevoir who we're supposed to beat, as well as both MegaZards, Zapdos and Mega Medicham. One extra speed point really boosts our viability and puts us instead in a speed tie with Landorus-I, which I feel is a reasonable compromise. We still beat Landorus-T and Mega Garchomp, however, and easily outpace Skarmory, Azumarill and Sylveon. I initially feared such a spread would encourage Scarf use, however Electric and Poison are both awkward types to get locked into, especially against Landorus and Garchomp, meaning such a set would be risky and only situationally allow CAP19 to beat Garchomp and Landorus.
And despite the discussion of 100 vs 101 speed that's been going on, I'm sticking to my reasoning and keeping 101.
Special Attack:
Bumping up from the popular 130 to 132 is designed to remove CAP19's reliance on hazards, items and/or luck for a couple of situations, and make the opponent think twice in a couple of others.
Defenses:
I decided to give CAP19 lower physical than special defense, hoping to encourage physical attackers who Gyarados can intimidate and then set up on, and as such the PT flirts with the bottom limit of its range while ST is right near the top
Hey, so, I don't think I am going o have time in the net couple of days to come up with my own stat spread (we'll see, but that's just a prediction). However, I would like to give some comments. Before that though, I would just like to share something. Last week, I created a BSR calculator program for Android devices. Its probably not as useful as the spreadsheet calculator for the large number of calculations that people do when coming up with stat spreads, but it is pretty simple and quick, so, if anyone would like to use it, well, here you go.
Anyways, on to the spreads themselves... oh, oops. It seems I have to run right now, but I will edit in my comments later when I get back....
But, before I go, one quick general comment. I would like to second what srk1214 said regarding speed. Beating out Landorus and Garchomp when we are going to be a decently powerful special attacker could be a negative, since HP Ice can let us get by them. We really want those kind of guys to threaten us since we don't want to be dealing with the things Gyarados sets up on ourselves. Now that is not to say that beating them out is the most terrible thing in the world, but if your spread is going to be faster than those Pokemon, you should acknowledge it and either talk about why it is not a big deal, or about what shortcomings make up for it. No matter how you do it though, be sure to take it into account in some way.
Overview: Bulk is sufficient to survive powerful resisted attacks from such threats as Talonflame and Mega Pinsir. Special Attack and Speed allow it to outrun annoying Pokemon while still being outrun by what we wish it to be beaten by. Attack is possibly usable if a boosting move is available without being overly powerful.
Speed: 114 base Speed allows CAP 19 to have a maximum possible speed of 359, which allows CAP to outrun threats to Mega Gyarados such as Mega Pinsir (339). However, this is still slow enough to allow many Pokemon that we want to lure in for Mega Gyarados to come in, including Greninja (377), Starmie (361), Scarf Excadrill (453), Scarf Heatran (379), Weavile (383), Talonflame (386), and Alakazam (372).
Regarding Garchomp and Landorus: It is my belief that the concern about CAP 19 being fast enough to run HP Ice to get past these two threats, while understandable, is an overreaction. Garchomp in particular can get past CAP 19 reliably even if CAP 19 is faster. Why is this the case? Let's take a look at the 1825 item usage statistics for Garchomp:
The two most common items used on Garchomp are Choice Scarf and Focus Sash, which have a combined usage of 57.382%. Both of them allow Garchomp to OHKO the CAP with Earthquake by respectively outspeeding the CAP or tanking a hit and retaliating. Both of these situations are pro-concept in their own way; the former leaves Garchomp locked into Earthquake and thus incapable of harming Gyarados in its base form, while the latter allows Gyarados to either secure an easy Moxie boost or an easy Dragon Dance off of Intimidate.
As for Landorus, my argument is more multifaceted. First off, it should be pointed out that Landorus commonly carries Focus Blast, which cripples Mega Gyarados.
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 322-382 (97.2 - 115.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
As such, it would make more sense to forgo Mega Evolution until after Gyarados has boosted. However, Gyarados is still not safe:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 153-181 (46.2 - 54.6%) -- 58.6% chance to 2HKO (guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock).
From this calculation, it should be apparent that Gyarados needs a free switch, to not have Mega Evolved yet, and not to have lost much more than 20% of its health prior to entering the field in order to reliably set up on Landorus. As such, it seems that Landorus is not really reliable set-up bait for Gyarados.
Furthermore, the threats that HP Ice hits (e.g. the aforementioned Ground-types) predominately physical Pokemon that Gyarados can already handle thanks to Intimidate. Conversely, HP Fire hits Pokemon that Gyarados has more trouble dealing with and setting up on, such as Ferrothorn, Excadrill, and Scizor. As such, if I were building a team with Mega Gyarados and CAP 19, it would make more sense to me to use HP Fire over HP Ice.
Bulk: It was clear early on that CAP 19 needed physical bulk more than it needed special bulk. Since Chansey is good set-up fodder for Gyarados, it made little sense to go past 99 base HP. However, to increase recoil damage to Talonflame, I decided to give the CAP a decently high base HP stat. With 90/90/79 defenses, here's what the CAP can do:
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP 19: 351-416 (109 - 129.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP 19: 312-369 (96.8 - 114.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP 19: 256-303 (79.5 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP 19: 448-532 (139.1 - 165.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (This is the weakest Ground attack we will likely see).
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP 19: 400-472 (124.2 - 146.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP 19: 330-393 (102.4 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP 19: 374-439 (116.1 - 136.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP 19: 128-151 (39.7 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP 19: 113-134 (35 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP 19: 135-159 (41.9 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP 19: 177-209 (54.9 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-2 252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP 19: 89-105 (27.6 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP 19: 67-79 (20.8 - 24.5%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
Offense: As much as CAP 19 being able to beat Latios and Latias would be nice, we're probably going to make them checks at best, as both can cleanly OHKO CAP with Psyshock. That note aside, base 127 SpA is high enough to wreak havoc on the opposing team. Observe:
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 260-307 (73.8 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Minun Hidden Power Ice vs. 244 HP / 192+ SpD Gliscor: 312-369 (88.6 - 104.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (No good player is going to risk losing CAP 19 prematurely to attempt this.)
252 SpA Life Orb Minun Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 221-260 (52.6 - 61.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 238-281 (55 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 239-282 (85 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 239-282 (79.9 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 187-222 (61.5 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 218-257 (56.7 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 185-218 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 413-486 (152.3 - 179.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Thunderbolt vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Alomomola: 673-795 (127.2 - 150.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Minun Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 335-398 (112.7 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 452-533 (114.7 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 335-398 (82.9 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
HP: 90 Attack: 60 Defense: 89 Special Attack: 124 Special Defense: 77 Speed: 100 Base Stat Total: 540 Physical Sweepiness: 95.5154 (Below Average) Physical Tankiness: 142.083 (Good) Special Sweepiness: 201.554 (Fantastic) Special Tankiness: 124.934 (Above Average) Base Stat Rating: 306.458 (Very Good)
The HP / Defense ensure three things: A) That it is never OHKOed by Adamant Choice Band Talonflame's Flare Blitz, B) is never OHKOed by Garchomp's Outrage after Stealth Rock, and C) its Substitutes are never broken by Ferrothorn. Its Special Attack ensures that, with a Timid nature and an Expert Belt, specially defensive Skarmory and offensive Mega Gardevoir are always always OHKOed. Its HP / Special Defense don't really do much, but it is never OHKOed by Life Orb Gengar's Shadow Ball or +2 Thundurus' Thunderbolt after Stealth Rock, and it is just enough to survive two of Mega Manectric's Overheats. The given Speed ensures that with a Timid nature it will always tie base 100s (namely Mega Gardevoir), but loses to Garchomp (see, I made the clever choice to ensure it must use Earthquake on CAP to avoid its own death from Hidden Power Ice, ensuring that Gyarados can set up). I chose 100 Speed because, while I would like to beat Mega Gardevoir, because of the Special Attack, many players would not risk the speed tie and switch out. It also loses to Landorus, which Gyarados can set up all over. I chose the Attack so it doesn't go below the limit, but it makes the BST an even 540.
252 SpA Expert Belt Mew Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 274-324 (63.4 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Expert Belt Mew Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Skarmory: 346-406 (103.5 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Mew Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 281-331 (101.4 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 259-306 (80.6 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 67-80 (20.8 - 24.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 217-256 (67.6 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 211-250 (65.7 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 177-209 (55.1 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-2 252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 90-107 (28 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 181-214 (56.3 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
97 HP provides a fair amount. 97 HP is beatable by Chansey's Seismic Toss in all cases (A great Pokemon to lure in), whilst 97 HP can use 4 EVs to hit 336, a nice Blacke Sludge Number. Naturally CAP may not wish to run Black Sludge (Air Balloon seems to be quite a common idea), but having the option is nice.
81 DEF
Avoids being one-shot by Talonflame's Flare Blitz, and makes BB a 3HKO under Black Sludge. Survives Garchomp outrage, fails to survive EQ. Survives MAero's Stone Edge.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP19: 140-165 (41.6 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP19: 280-330 (83.3 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP19: 780-924 (232.1 - 275%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP19: 234-276 (69.6 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP19: 220-259 (65.4 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
76 SPD
Key points here include Earth Power from Landorus-I being a one shot from Scarfed variants, and Psychic also being a KO under rocks, both of which (M-)Gyarados can use to set up freely. Thundurus needs Psychic to beat us freely, but it might potentially run it more commonly given CAP19. Only gets the 3HKO otherwise.
We have enough general special bulk for handling general threats as well. M-Manectric, notably, fails to score a 2HKO with Overheat.
252 SpA Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP19: 880-1036 (261.9 - 308.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP19: 294-346 (87.5 - 102.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP19: 312-369 (92.8 - 109.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP19: 117-138 (34.8 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP19: 183-216 (54.4 - 64.2%) --> -2 252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP19: 91-108 (27 - 32.1%) never 2HKOs.
100 SPEED
On reflection, 100 serves us better than 101. 100 Speed lets us lure in Landorus and Garchomp reliably. We lose a few other matchups (Losing to M-Garde is a pain), but most members of the 100 Speed Tier that 101 is designed to beat cannot reliably switch into.
130 SPA
130 SPA hits a large number of targets. With HP Ice, -SpD variants of Garchomp can be removed with Hidden Power Ice after SR, meaning that they can't set up Swords Dance (For the sets that use SD). Also has the same for Landorus-I, although SR is needed to guarentee the KO.
Vs Amoonguss, Sludge Wave 3HKOs, but can 2HKO when Rocks are a factor. Ferrothorn can be beaten down with Hidden Power Fire. Slowbro dies under SR, and Alomomola is 2HKOd in almost all scenarios.
We 2HKO Thundurus, 2HKO Mega-Manectric and OHKO Aerodactly, even though Aerodactyl can potentially switch to using EQ which naturally devastates CAP19.
252 SpA CAP19 Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 316-376 (99 - 117.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO --> guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA CAP19 Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Garchomp: 336-396 (94.1 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO --> guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA CAP19 Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 186-220 (43 - 50.9%) -- 54.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA CAP19 Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 204-240 (57.9 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA CAP19 Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 354-416 (89.8 - 105.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA CAP19 Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Alomomola: 368-434 (68.9 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA CAP19 Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 187-222 (62.5 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA CAP19 Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 187-222 (66.5 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA CAP19 Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 308-366 (102.3 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
66 ATK
Whilst I dislike dump stats, CAP19 has no business in using physical sets. Picked to give me a nice round number for BRT ^_^
70/54/109/125/85/121
BST:564 Thanks to number cruncher i have at least a SS now. :) SS: 222.43 (Close to maximum threshold)
hola everyone,
I'm back to do another try at stats I do really like heal's justification for that defensive stat, so I'll be borrowing that but everything else is different. :)
I cant do PT/ST/PS/SS and BSR because my mac has numbers and numbers a cant get the calculation for PT/ST/PS/SS and BSR right... so yeah im kinda stuck there.
However I did see that with these stats the cap beats what needs to and loses to a lot of the stuff we need to lose to. However this is still a really rough draft and ill add PT/ST/PS/SS and BSR eventually, as well as justification for the stats.
edit: changed stats to fit stat limits...hopefully XD
60/50/119/125/80/121
BST:555
hola everyone,
I'm back to do another try at stats I do really like heal's justification for that defensive stat, so I'll be borrowing that but everything else is different. :)
I cant do PT/ST/PS/SS and BSR because my mac has numbers and numbers a cant get the calculation for PT/ST/PS/SS and BSR right... so yeah im kinda stuck there.
However I did see that with these stats the cap beats what needs to and loses to a lot of the stuff we need to lose to. However this is still a really rough draft and ill add PT/ST/PS/SS and BSR eventually, as well as justification for the stats.
PS: 85.27 (Below minimum threshold)
PT: 148.89 (Close to maximum threshold)
SS: 222.43 (Close to maximum threshold)
ST: 101.44 (Below minimum threshold)
BSR: 302.54 (Reasonably within threshold)
In order to make this set-up legal by our parameters, we need to buff Attack to 54 and the Special Defense to 87. Thus we have:
60/54/119/125/87/121
BST:566
You also are probably going to want to round off the BST to a round 570. Here are the stats you can buff, and by how much:
HP: You can't buff this without going over PT limit.
Attack: You can buff this by up to 4.
Defense: You can't buff this without going over PT limit
Special Attack: You can buff this by up to 3 without going over the SS limit.
Special Defense: You can buff this by up to 4.
Speed: You can buff this by up to 4.
84 HP / 65 Atk / 90 Def / 125 SpA / 90 SpD / 101 Spe BST: 555
PT 137.37 (Good) / ST 138.68 (Good) / PS 103.47 (Above Average) / SS 204.91 (Fantastic) BSR: 319.66 (Very Good)
Landorus 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 998-1175 (321.9 - 379%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA CAP Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 340-404 (106.5 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Landorus-t 4 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 652-772 (210.3 - 249%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA CAP Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 308-364 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Garchomp 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 712-844 (229.6 - 272.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA CAP Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Garchomp: 328-388 (91.8 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Greninja 252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 315-374 (101.6 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA CAP Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 380-450 (132.8 - 157.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Talonflame 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 256-303 (82.5 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 128-151 (41.2 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA CAP Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 390-458 (130.8 - 153.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Heatran 252+ SpA Heatran Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 177-208 (57 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA CAP Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 135-160 (41.7 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Victini 252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 400-472 (129 - 152.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Victini Zen Headbutt vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 356-422 (114.8 - 136.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Victini Bolt Strike vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 96-114 (30.9 - 36.7%) -- 71.8% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 268-316 (86.4 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Victini Zen Headbutt vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 240-284 (77.4 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA CAP Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 151-178 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO
-----------------------------------------
Ferrothorn 252 SpA CAP Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 196-232 (55.6 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 67-79 (21.6 - 25.4%) -- 0.4% chance to 4HKO
Slowbro 252 SpA CAP Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 342-404 (86.8 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 71-84 (22.9 - 27%) -- 47.2% chance to 4HKO
Amoonguss 252 SpA CAP Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 181-214 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+1 252 SpA CAP Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 271-319 (62.7 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 SpA Amoonguss Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 39-46 (12.5 - 14.8%) -- possible 7HKO
Alomomola 252 SpA CAP Thunderbolt vs. 104 HP / 156 SpD Alomomola: 408-482 (82 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Thundurus 252 SpA CAP Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 183-216 (61.2 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 101-121 (32.5 - 39%) -- 99.2% chance to 3HKO
Mega Aerodactyl 252 SpA CAP Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 300-354 (99.6 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 202-238 (65.1 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mega Manectric 252 SpA CAP Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 183-216 (65.1 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 159-188 (51.2 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 83-98 (26.7 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Speed is set to 101 in order to outspeed Mega Gardevoir. If we don't outspeed it, we can't beat it. It's too dangerous to risk a speed tie. Even if that means we can potentially beat Landorus.
At 125 Special attack, we can beat everything we need too. We can even beat amoongus after a storm drain boost.
84/90/90 bulk allows us to be moderately tanky, so that we aren't too frail. We can be taken out by CB talonfalme's flare blitz if we're weakened by about 20%, and it can tank CB talonflame's brave birds.
I'm a little confused about this set. What is this actually supposed to beat? It gets 2HKO'd by Choice Band Brave Bird Talonflame and OHKO'd by Flare Blitz. It can't beat Mega Gardevoir, or even switch into a Gardevoir Choiced into Moonblast. Azumarill can OHKO with Play Rough if Belly Drum is up. It doesn't beat Mega-Pinsir or Mega-Charizard (in either form). Heck, even Heatrans that have natures that drop speed and 0 EV in Speed still outspeed and OHKO CAP with Earth Power.
Since you speed tie Conkelldur, that match-up against it is based entirely on whether the Speed tie is broken in your favor or not. It works actually pretty well against Amoongus, but you can't actually outspeed his Spore because you made CAP too slow.
I'm just a tad confused about what this is actually supposed to be good against. If you could give me some stats on match-ups it's supposed to win in, that would be an immense help.
The physical tankiness allows for it avoid a 2hko from choice banded Talonflame's brave bird, and avoid an ohko from sword dance Garchomp's Outrage. The special tankiness avoids the 2hko from mega Manectric and a ohko from 2+ Thundurus. The special sweepiness is set up to allow one to run a modest nature to garner more power and an extra four evs into tankiness (to outrun base 105's namely Mega-Pinsir) but misses out on outspeeding 106 and above. A timid nature cannot outspeed Greninja (which mega Gyarados can set up on) but outspeeds Terrakion, Latios, and Thundurus. A modest nature is required to ensure 2HKO's on bulky Mega charizard X and defensive mega venasaur (97.4 % chance), as well as ensuring a 3HKO on swords dance garchomp with sludge wave (thus garchomp cannot switch in and set up) The physical sweepiness is in the lower middle range of the BSR limits.
PS: 85.27 (Below minimum threshold)
PT: 148.89 (Close to maximum threshold)
SS: 222.43 (Close to maximum threshold)
ST: 101.44 (Below minimum threshold)
BSR: 302.54 (Reasonably within threshold)
In order to make this set-up legal by our parameters, we need to buff Attack to 54 and the Special Defense to 87. Thus we have:
60/54/119/125/87/121
BST:566
You also are probably going to want to round off the BST to a round 570. Here are the stats you can buff, and by how much:
HP: You can't buff this without going over PT limit.
Attack: You can buff this by up to 4.
Defense: You can't buff this without going over PT limit
Special Attack: You can buff this by up to 3 without going over the SS limit.
Special Defense: You can buff this by up to 4.
Speed: You can buff this by up to 4.
Thanks NumberCruncher, I just wish someone would make a PT/ST/PS/SS calculator for mac, that would be so nice. Anyways with this with these buffs could I get into the stat limits, as I cant see where I would be after I change the stats.
HP: The low HP Stat of 60 actually helps CAP19 out quite nicely by giving it the abillity to get a reasonable amount of phyiscal bulk while also giving us a nice amount of special bulk. Also It helps us lose against Chansey since its Sesmic Toss will be dealing more damage.
Attack: Basically a dump stat, not much to say here
Defense: This is probably the most important stat out of the bunch here, this stat helps us out by avoiding a OHKO from Garchomp's Outrage even with Stealth Rock up, giving us the potential to threaten it quite nicely by forcing it to use Earthquake, which in turn is able to OHKO us. This also helps against our lovely friend Talonflame, when Rocks are not up we can avoid being 2HKOd by Talonflame's Brave Bird, even if we invest our 4 EVs after Speed and Special Attack in Special Defense, while at the same time we are able to be 2HKOd from Talonflame's Flare Blitz and even a small chance of being OHKOd by it, which becomes much higher if rocks are up.
Special Attack: Probably the 2nd most important stat for us. This special attack helps us take down some of our defensive pokemon who we are aiming to check/counter. It gives us enough power to be able to take down Ferrothorn with HP Fire and Amoongus with Sludge Wave (With a 2HKO on each)
Special Defense: This stat gives us what we need to Check Thundy. We beat the Twave set 1v1 since it can really only 3HKO us while in return we are able to 2HKO it, it also makes sure the Nasty Plot set can't beat us.
Speed: Basically our Ideal Speed, this lets us Speed Tie with Mega Gardevoir (We outspeed on the turn it Mega Evos) and lets us Threaten it with our SE STAB. It's also barely slow enough to make sure we are outspeed and OHKOd by Landorus.
I agree with jas that going with more than 100 Speed is bad, as we want Landorus and Garchomp to beat us one on one at worst, which isn't happening if go with more than 100 Speed because of Hidden Power Ice. This is a very important point that everyone going with more than 100 Speed should address imo, and explain why the pros of being so fast outweigh the cons of removing Garchomp and Landorus from our threat list. While 101 Speed might be a tempting benchmark to outspeed Mega Zard X, Mega Zard Y, Mega Medicham, and Mega Gardevoir, all Pokemon that can threaten both the CAP and Gyarados, let's not forget that CAP + Gyarados are going to have teammates and we shouldn't be aiming to cover every threat to our core. We should be aiming for the CAP to lure in the Pokemon that Gyarados can set up on as consistently as possible, which isn't happening when you outspeed and OHKO offensive checks that Gyarados can set up on, such as Landorus and Garchomp. I get the temptation to outspeed strong Pokemon such as the ones i mentioned, but the question you need to ask yourself is: ''Can those Pokemon safely switch into the CAP?''. If the answer is no, then there is no need to outspeed them, especially when it means jeopardizing our checks and counters list. And all of Mega Medicham, Mega Gardevoir, and Mega Zard Y and X don't want to switch into the CAP, either because they are frail and can't take its STABs, or because SR + Volt Switch does a big number to them.
Respect our threat list
This is very obvious, but respect our threat list. Pokemon such as offensive Starmie, Dragonite, choice-locked Fire-types, Greninja, and Weavile are supposed to threaten us one on one, outside of the obvious Ground-types and Scizor / Mega Scizor, which should never have been included in the threat list because we wall it and we can do a lot of damage back to it with Electric STAB. This suggests that the CAP should be relatively frail on the physical side, so that Dragonite's unboosted Earthquake, CB Talonflame's Flare Blitz, Scarf and Band Victini's V-Create, and Weavile's Knock Off should threaten to OHKO without HP investment, with or without SR up. Here are two PT combinations that make this possible:
- 104.119 PT: 80 HP / 70 Def
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eelektross: 261-308 (86.7 - 102.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eelektross: 315-372 (104.6 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eelektross: 328-387 (108.9 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 125.929 PT: 80 HP / 85 Def
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eelektross: 224-265 (74.4 - 88%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eelektross: 270-318 (89.7 - 105.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eelektross: 280-331 (93 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
While getting OHKOed by Talonflame's Flare Blitz might worry some people because of the potential of SD Talonflame OHKOing the CAP and preventing Mega Gyarados from setting up, don't forget that those calcs are using a Choice Band and no HP investment. Let's take a look at how the calcs are looking if the CAP uses 252 HP and Talonflame lacks Choice Band:
vs 80 HP / 70 Def (104.119 PT): 252+ Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eelektross: 211-249 (57.9 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
vs 80 HP / 85 Def (125.929 PT): 252+ Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eelektross: 180-213 (49.4 - 58.5%) -- 66.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So, if the CAP wants it can comfortably avoid the OHKO from SD Talonflame's Flare Blitz even with as low as 80 / 70 physical bulk, provided it invests fully in HP.
Also, Greninja and Starmie should OHKO the CAP with their Psychic moves from offensive sets, even if the CAP runs some HP investment (which it will if we want it to check Water-types), because those Pokemon get OHKOed if they don't OHKO and so Mega Gyarados can't use them as set up bait. Here are some ST combinations that make this possible:
- 134.552 ST: 80 HP / 90 SpD
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eelektross: 315-374 (86.5 - 102.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 120.171 ST: 80 HP / 80 SpD
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eelektross: 351-413 (96.4 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
And for Starmie, you need more or less the same PT (Psyshock) as the ST you need for Greninja, because Psyshock has the same BP with Extrasensory and Starmie and Greninja have the same SpA stat more or less.
tl;dr this means that you shouldn't make the CAP overly bulky, as then it can't be OHKOed by the stuff that are supposed to OHKO it.
The CAP should be difficult to wall outside of bulky Ground-types
Why you ask? Because if it's not, then the opponent will bring in another kind of check / counter that isn't set up on by Mega Gyarados. And in order to make the CAP difficult to wall, the best path to take is that of a wallbreaker, which are usually very strong, and moderately fast and bulky. Here are some Pokemon that resist our primary offensive STAB (Electric) and the CAP should be able to 2HKO:
- Mega Charizard X
- Magnezone
- Latios
- Latias
- Ferrothorn
- Mega Venusaur
- Amoonguss
- Kyurem-B
- Mega Manectric
- Raikou
- Celebi
- Mega Ampharos
- Chesnaught
All of those Pokemon can switch into the CAP and directly threaten it back, slowly wear it down, or set up on it, while also all of them beat Mega Gyarados 1 on 1 at the very least, with some being hard counters, such as Chesnaught, Mega Venusaur, and Ferrothorn. So, the CAP needs to be able to significantly threaten those Pokemon, to prevent them from coming in for free. Most of them can be 2HKOed by STAB Sludge Bomb / Wave from a good SpA stat, while other require Hidden Power Fire, namely Magnezone and Ferrothorn. Here are some SpA stats that 2HKO most of those Pokemon reliably (70% of the time or more) with Sludge Wave and Hidden Power Fire:
- 135 SpA with a Modest nature
252+ SpA Eelektross Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 150-177 (41.2 - 48.6%) -- 72.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Eelektross Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 148+ SpD Mega Charizard X: 156-184 (43.4 - 51.2%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO, sure 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Eelektross Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 32 SpD Assault Vest Raikou: 114-135 (35.5 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Eelektross Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Amoonguss: 184-217 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Eelektross Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem-B: 190-225 (48.5 - 57.5%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Eelektross Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Mega Ampharos: 120-142 (31.3 - 37%) -- 80.1% chance to 3HKO, which is good enough because Mega Ampharos is slower and can't OHKO back
252+ SpA Eelektross Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 139-165 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO
Everything else is cleanly 2HKOed
- 135 SpA with a Timid nature and Life Orb
252 SpA Life Orb Eelektross Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 177-211 (48.6 - 57.9%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Eelektross Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 32 SpD Assault Vest Raikou: 134-160 (41.7 - 49.8%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Eelektross Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Amoonguss: 218-257 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Eelektross Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Mega Ampharos: 142-169 (37 - 44.1%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
