Other Pokemon: Smogon Version OU [Route 4]

[Chou Toshio]

I'm thinking if Talonflame's family is in there it should be FletchlingER with at least Aerial Ace if not better. Maybe it could be an Eviolite, W-o-W + Roost whore to contrast with the offensive Talonflame brave bird spam We'll probably see from a gym leader down the line.

No Skarmory in gym 1 please...

 

[Bluwing]

smeargle / bunnelby / gastly / zangoose? / marill / porygon

this team is competetive has two wildcards, and is very strong in general. idk i think it looks kinda cool and zangoose could be the signature mon if it's not to strong tho ofc which it might be, i know it's not even ranked in ou, but there as such few viable mons to make a good team.

EDIT: Idk as i have not read the whole thread, but pokemon like zangoose or staravia could work in place of exploud. also the team is based around sticky web offense with taunt gastly to prevent defog etc. this is just an team idea and i thought it seemed cool as the team sports some really nice heavy hitters, tho some off they are also slow which benefits to sticky web.

 

[Fourth Inversion]

fletchinder / bunnelby / gastly / exploud / marill / porygon

this team is competetive has two wildcards, and is very strong in general. idk i think it looks kinda cool and exploud could be the signature mon if it's not to strong tho ofc which it might be, but since it was c- i guess it's legal to nominate it.

Loudred doesn't evolve into Exploud until Level 40, so it'd have to be an illegal evolution.

 

[Millky95]

Have a few NPC proposals:

Gym Leader Team
Smergle, Fletchinder, Happiny/Chansey, Gastly, Porygon, Azuril

Fletchinder and Gastly for stopping Fighting Types from getting too much of an advantage. Chansey as the signature Pokemon or Happiny for not the signature.

Gym Trainer #1
Male, Schoolboy Mitchell
Before dialog: Hey! No one can battle <gym leader's name> until you've faced me!
Team:
Buneary / Fletchling
Winning dialog: I knew you weren't good enough for this gym!
Losing dialog: Awww man, not again!
Speaking after battle: I keep losing to trainers who walk in, I'm never going to move up.


Gym Trainer #2
Female, Lass Cassie
Before dialog: I've learnt a lot about battling thanks to <gym leader>! Let me show you what I know!
Team:
Porygon / Fletchling / Ditto
Winning dialog: I've sure learnt a lot!
Losing dialog: I need to learn more about battling.
Speaking after battle: You sure know a lot about battling!

Gym Guide:
Before gym: "Hello there trainer! Welcome to the first SmogSmog Gym! I'm your Gym Guide to victory! Want to know more about gym leaders in the SmogSmog region? I'm your man! Let's say we together move on to win the championship together! Gym Leader <name> is a Normal-Type user. Normal-Types are weak to Fighting-type Pokemon moves. But be careful, Normal-types often have big movepools to check this. Good luck!"
After winning the gym: "What a good fight! You're the stuff kid, you're going places!"

NPC Hanging around outside the gym:
"Man, I can't get the handle on this battling thing and I get swept in the gym all the time. Maybe I should do competitive contests instead of battles..."

I am not 100% sure on movesets and levels so if someone else wishes to do those, feel free

 

[Bluwing]

Loudred doesn't evolve into Exploud until Level 40, so it'd have to be an illegal evolution.

that is true something else should work over it, but there aren't many viable normal pokemon to choose from

 

[Chou Toshio]

smeargle / bunnelby / gastly / zangoose? / marill / porygon

this team is competetive has two wildcards, and is very strong in general. idk i think it looks kinda cool and zangoose could be the signature mon if it's not to strong tho ofc which it might be, i know it's not even ranked in ou, but there as such few viable mons to make a good team.

EDIT: Idk as i have not read the whole thread, but pokemon like zangoose or staravia could work in place of exploud. also the team is based around sticky web offense with taunt gastly to prevent defog etc. this is just an team idea and i thought it seemed cool as the team sports some really nice heavy hitters, tho some off they are also slow which benefits to sticky web.

Remember only OU viable families. Zangoose is no good.

I actually think we can allow Chansey-- or rather, an OU normal gym without pink blobs would be tragic-- as long as we agree no HP or DEF EVs, Calm nature, and no Eviolite, just to make sure it can actually be killed due to terrible physical bulk. I would personally suggest something like this:
-Bunnelby
-Marril
-Fletchinger
-Clefairy
-Gliger
-Chansey

 

[thdhted]

Alrighty, massive text wall ACTIVATE!

First NPC proposal: Breeding Guru
The premise behind this NPC: Most non-competitive players have never really used the daycare, except maybe to dump something they don't want to train in it. This person basically exists to explain the mechanics of breeding to players as well as to supply the proper items for breeding, especially if the player accidentally loses their everstone/destiny knot via releasing a 'mon with one of those items.

Sample text upon entry to his house:
*character enters his home* Well hello there youngster! Welcome to my home! I'm the breeding guru, and I know everything about breeding and can answer your questions. How do I know so much? Well, I used to be a breeder myself, until I grew too old to run around to hatch eggs, so nowadays I stay here, giving advice to young trainers like yourself and instructing them in the secrets of breeding.

after this short conversation, a text box will appear with questions about breeding, like "why should I breed my Pokemon?", "what are IVs?" , and " how do I get egg moves?". After the Breeding Guru has answered your questions, he will give you your everstone and destiny knot. When the character attempts to leave his house, he will stop you and say this: Hey kid, you know what? I think you've got some real potential, I think I'm going to give you a fairly rare egg so you can get started on breeding! While these eggs do have perfect IVs and a good nature for their species, they do not have any egg moves, but they will give you a head start in breeding, so go ahead and pick one!

The availible eggs

togepi
happiny
riolu
whynaut
when your character chooses an egg, the Guru will describe the Pokemon inside and what kind of team it fits best on. After choosing an egg, the guru will send you on your way and will be availible if you have any more questions.

(I'm going to write more suggestions later)

 

[Stallmory]

For the Gym Leader's Team, I would suggest something like this:


Normal Type Mons (or mons who were Normal Type in previous stages)


-Marill

Its part Fairy Type helps against Fighting Types, has priority and powerful moves like Play Rough, Superpower (Brick Break better, maybe) and can run coverage moves like Dig or Bounce.

-Fletchinder

Also helps against Fighting Types, and also being part Fire means trouble to all those Bug and Grass mons we encounter early. It also has enough support movepool with Taunt, WoW, Tailwind, etc., recovery in Roost, access to U-Turn and other good moves to be a nice option. Its Ability could even be Flame Body, considering he is pretty fast himself and can run Flame Charge, too.

-Bunnelby

A pure Normal Type-version of Marill, with similar moves and same ability, as it could run almost the same set (Quick Attack, Brick Break, Dig/EQ, Bounce, etc.) ...or he could be the lead with Spikes, Rock Slide/Rock Tomb, U-Turn or even Wild Charge.

-Porygon

The team's main special attacker. Has access to a good STAB move in Tri-Attack and the Bolt-Beam combo (or if that is too much, Electroweb-Icy Wind to give also some support and help its poor speed). Can also run T-Wave and Recover (or Pain Split).

-Chansey

Could be the signature mon, as even without EV investment it has very good special bulk at these levels. Having access to reliable recovery with Wish and Softboiled, I think giving it an Eviolite could be a little overkill, even more if it ends up knowing Aromatherapy or Heal Bell. Everyone knows the extense movepool the Blobs have, so it could be a full-support mon with Toxic/T-Wave or just a semi-special attacker with recovery (maybe giving it Ice Beam + Thunderbolt too, or whatever).


And the non-Normal Type to give more support:


-Gastly

Great defensive typing and help against Fighting Types too and other common types like Grass, Bug, Normal, etc. in this stage of the game, but also frail to not suppose too much of a problem to beat. Good offense and speed and access to Taunt, Curse, Confuse Ray, Destiny Bond, Clear Smog, Hypnosis, WoW, Perish Song...

 

[Da Pizza Man]

For the Gym Leader's time I'm thinking something like this


Bunnelby: One of the many physical attackers on this team (Yeah, I accidentally infested this team with Physical attackers, but I decided to work with my limits), its got a nice amount of attack that lets it abuse certain moves like a semi powerful Return/Tackle (If Return isn't our TM), and Quick attack can put the hurt on some pokemon

Staravia: Basically creates a semi bird spam core with Fletchling, its quite fast, has access to Initmidate which can help it out quite nicely by making it a bit bulkier, and is also rather helpful for Chansey. Its got rather powerful stab, Wing Attack is quite nice early game since it gives the opponent a powerful move to use against our fighting types who can hurt Chansey

Fletchling: A nice powerful priority abuser. Like I said earlier, this pokemon can work really well with Staravia by creating a semi bird spam core. Also, like Staravia Fletchling helps the opponent out by giving them another weapon against fighting types.

Slowpoke: Ironically the only special attacker on the team. Slowpoke can help the opponent out by giving them a poke who can attack our Ghastly's with SE coverage moves, especially when considering how we don't have any Ghost type move to hit it with. It also creates a semi stall core with Chansey

Marill: Not really the best poke on the team, but it can do some damage. While it doesn't get a STAB move. it does make up for it with a powerful Tackle/Return, also it does get rock coverage but that doesn't really matter much

Chansey: The signature pokemon of the team. It is a powerful wall who can really do some work at its job. It has access to SR and it gets both a recover move and a status healing move. It can also do a moderate amount of damage with Toxic/Sesmic Toss (Preferably the former)

Also another thing, can we please not rely heavily on TM and Egg moves, we have barely any pokemon to get egg moves from atm and also we haven't even gotten a single tm yet, the closest thing being the SR tutor, I also think we shouldn't rely on Pokes we haven't encountered yet unless its a signature poke

Speaking of TMs, what is the TM the gym leader gives us after we defeat them? I'm thinking Return is our best choice

 

[Salemance]

For the Gym Leader's time I'm thinking something like this


Bunnelby: One of the many physical attackers on this team (Yeah, I accidentally infested this team with Physical attackers, but I decided to work with my limits), its got a nice amount of attack that lets it abuse certain moves like a semi powerful Return/Tackle (If Return isn't our TM), and Quick attack can put the hurt on some pokemon

Staravia: Basically creates a semi bird spam core with Fletchling, its quite fast, has access to Initmidate which can help it out quite nicely by making it a bit bulkier, and is also rather helpful for Chansey. Its got rather powerful stab, Wing Attack is quite nice early game since it gives the opponent a powerful move to use against our fighting types who can hurt Chansey

Fletchling: A nice powerful priority abuser. Like I said earlier, this pokemon can work really well with Staravia by creating a semi bird spam core. Also, like Staravia Fletchling helps the opponent out by giving them another weapon against fighting types.

Slowpoke: Ironically the only special attacker on the team. Slowpoke can help the opponent out by giving them a poke who can attack our Ghastly's with SE coverage moves, especially when considering how we don't have any Ghost type move to hit it with. It also creates a semi stall core with Chansey

Marill: Not really the best poke on the team, but it can do some damage. While it doesn't get a STAB move. it does make up for it with a powerful Tackle/Return, also it does get rock coverage but that doesn't really matter much

Chansey: The signature pokemon of the team. It is a powerful wall who can really do some work at its job. It has access to SR and it gets both a recover move and a status healing move. It can also do a moderate amount of damage with Toxic/Sesmic Toss (Preferably the former)

Also another thing, can we please not rely heavily on TM and Egg moves, we have barely any pokemon to get egg moves from atm and also we haven't even gotten a single tm yet, the closest thing being the SR tutor, I also think we shouldn't rely on Pokes we haven't encountered yet unless its a signature poke

Speaking of TMs, what is the TM the gym leader gives us after we defeat them? I'm thinking Return is our best choice

Return was made available to the player on the Route following the forest. Whatever TM picked, it have to be an interesting one alright.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

Return was made available to the player on the Route following the forest. Whatever TM picked, it have to be an interesting one alright.

How about Protect? The only other non-nichey Normal Typed TM is Swords Dance and that's too op this early in the game

 

[Salemance]

How about Protect? The only other non-nichey Normal Typed TM is Swords Dance and that's too op this early in the game

Have at the discussion. Its stuff like this, Gym Puzzle, and stuff we still have to iron out before the discussion period is up.

 

[Stallmory]

Other interesting Normal Type TMs are Substitute, Double Team, Roar, Hidden Power, Explosion (lol), Sleep Talk... the thing is that whatever TM the Leader ends up giving to you, he should have at least 2-3 mons that know that move.

 

[Norne]

Im surprised that mo one is suggesting kecleon. He has some toys to abuse specially in such an early stage of the game.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

Im surprised that mo one is suggesting kecleon. He has some toys to abuse specially in such an early stage of the game.

The problem is we want OU viable mons...and Kecleon isn't

 

[Millky95]

Am in favour of Protect as the TM for the Gym. Although whatever TM we do use, should have some impact on at least half of the leader's team. So the player can see the move/strategy and want to use it themselves.

 

[Wheezer]

For the gym puzzle, are we planning on making it easy, or making it a bit hard? (which might be difficult, because I can't think of anything that would be somewhat tough) The hardest gym puzzle I remember would probably be Flannery's Gym from gen 3, and that wasn't all that hard.

 

[Salemance]

For the gym puzzle, are we planning on making it easy, or making it a bit hard? (which might be difficult, because I can't think of anything that would be somewhat tough) The hardest gym puzzle I remember would probably be Flannery's Gym from gen 3, and that wasn't all that hard.

As stated, it can be as easy or as hard as you make it. Just as long as it can fit thematically. The Snowpoint gym puzzle was a doozy if I recall right.....

 

[Darth Manaphy]

How about we do something similar to Striaton/Cinnabar (since I still think the game should be designed to ease newbies into competitive battling)? We have a quiz about Competitive Battling. For each wrong answer, we force them to fight a trainer who tells you the right answer. For each right answer, the trainer is passive and will only fight if you ask him/her to fight (and will make a comment about it)

 

[Millky95]

How about we do something similar to Striaton/Cinnabar (since I still think the game should be designed to ease newbies into competitive battling)? We have a quiz about Competitive Battling. For each wrong answer, we force them to fight a trainer who tells you the right answer. For each right answer, the trainer is passive and will only fight if you ask him/her to fight (and will make a comment about it)

The quiz would make more sense in the latter gyms. So they can help reflect what they've learnt about battling throughout playing the game. Assuming they have just heard of Smogon enough to learn about this game, they won't know a great deal quiz wise so it makes sense for that puzzle to be a 6-8th gym.

All puzzles in first games have been really easy, most with ways of avoiding trainers all together. Think we should go simple as well but without the avoiding trainers. We are here to battle so make us battle.

When it comes to normal type gyms they have all been simple mazes (Goldenrod) or simply battles (Petalburg) with Nacrene being the only real puzzle.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

The quiz would make more sense in the latter gyms. So they can help reflect what they've learnt about battling throughout playing the game. Assuming they have just heard of Smogon enough to learn about this game, they won't know a great deal quiz wise so it makes sense for that puzzle to be a 6-8th gym.

All puzzles in first games have been really easy, most with ways of avoiding trainers all together. Think we should go simple as well but without the avoiding trainers. We are here to battle so make us battle.

When it comes to normal type gyms they have all been simple mazes (Goldenrod) or simply battles (Petalburg) with Nacrene being the only real puzzle.

Well, my questions would be such like "What are IVs?" or "What are EVs?" "What is STAB?" etc. Questions that should be answerable in this town by anyone that wants to be a good competitive battler.


Oh yes, while I don't have time to write up about it. Trainer School anyone? I think we were putting it in the first town, but maybe it's time for a secondary branch that deals with lower education (just a reminder almost)

 

[Millky95]

Well, my questions would be such like "What are IVs?" or "What are EVs?" "What is STAB?" etc. Questions that should be answerable in this town by anyone that wants to be a good competitive battler.


Oh yes, while I don't have time to write up about it. Trainer School anyone? I think we were putting it in the first town, but maybe it's time for a secondary branch that deals with lower education (just a reminder almost)

Fair enough. Would rather a trainer school quiz with those simple questions with a good reward like an expert belt or something like Charcoal/Mystic Water.

 

[WebBowser]

Sorry I've been out for the past few days, but here are my thoughts so far...

1. Restcure happiny can work fine for recovery (remember, we have smart AI, they will swap out of bad matchups). It does force a swap out, but as long as it's paired with another decently bulky mon like porygon, I think it would work for gym one. Chansey may or may not be ok, but we will definitely need to cripple it some to make it not op (restcure chansey maybe?).

0 Atk level 20 Diggersby Return(102 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def level 20 Happiny: 33-39 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO
0+ Atk level 20 Diggersby Return(102 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def level 20 Happiny: 36-43 (47.3 - 56.5%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk level 20 Diggersby Return(102 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def level 20 Happiny: 49-58 (64.4 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Given that that's about the strongest we have as far as physical attackers are concerned atm, I think we're fine with happiny.

2. As for TM, I'd say roar. Phazing is a huge part of the metagame and would be one of the player's few options for taking out setup sweepers. I'm not sure how to work it into the gym though (defensive eevee maybe?). Protect is a good second option, but I kinda want to avoid subs for the moment. The rest are too niche to be a gym TM.

3. NPC proposal:

Ace Trainer

Location: Pokemon Center

First time you talk to him: "Hey rookie, looks like you've come a long way already! Have you tried to visit the gym yet? The leader there is a tough customer, so make sure you are fully prepared before challenging her/him. Speaking of being prepared, I think I have something that might help you out...."

*Got VS. Seeker*

"This baby is called a VS. Seeker. It allows you to rechallenge any trainer you have already fought. This model is vastly improved over the previous one, it works indoors, in caves, and even inside buildings! Like the previous one, it is motion powered, but the battery capacity and energy effeciency have been improved to the point where you really don't need to walk around between uses. Using it is really simple, just talk to any trainer that you've already battled and they'll ask you if you want a rematch. Anyway, good luck on your journey, maybe we'll even wind up facing each other someday, ha ha ha."

Talk to him again: "Trainers in the Smog Smog region are always looking to improve their teams, just like you, so don't be surprised when a trainer turns out to be much stronger on the second or third time around."

Reasoning: Grinding wild mons is dull, dull, dull, really friggen dull! Ever since the VS. Seeker's introduction in third gen, I have felt that this thing was pretty much a necessity for every pokemon game afterwords. I feel that since we are plotting a significant difficulty spike at the first gym, now would be a grand time to introduce this wonderful item.

 

[SparksBlade]

0 Atk level 20 Diggersby Return(102 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def level 20 Happiny: 33-39 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO
0+ Atk level 20 Diggersby Return(102 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def level 20 Happiny: 36-43 (47.3 - 56.5%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk level 20 Diggersby Return(102 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def level 20 Happiny: 49-58 (64.4 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

i'm pretty sure none of our pokes are at max happiness.
i like the idea of the Vs. Seeker

 

[WebBowser]

i'm pretty sure none of our pokes are at max happiness.
i like the idea of the Vs. Seeker

The point of the calcs were to show that we can make Happiny (without eviolite) more then capable of taking even the strongest phys attacks the player is feasibly capable of throwing at it if we so desire. This is an argument against having the gym leader running chansey, just because that would be absolutely dumb. I prolly should've made that more clear, and for that I am sorry.

If you want a more realistic base threshold, Diggersby should have take down by level 20, which is an 85 BP normal type move.

0 Atk level 20 Diggersby take down vs. 0 HP / 252+ level 20 Def Happiny: 27-33 (35.5 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0+ Atk level 20 Diggersby take down vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def level 20 Happiny: 30-36 (39.4 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk level 20 Diggersby take down vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def level 20 Happiny: 42-49 (55.2 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Oh yeah, here's happiny's offensive "power".

Happiny Seismic Toss vs. 0 HP Diggersby: 20-20 (28.5 - 28.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

About what you would expect from stoss tbh. Given its impressive phys bulk in what should be a bad matchup for it, this is perfectly acceptable.

The fact that happiny doesn't wall diggersby is more of a product of nothing walling diggersby atm due to normal types having easily accessible high BP STABs and huge power than anything else.