Victim of the Week: OM Edition [2v2 Doubles - Infernape & Mega Alakazam]


Banette-Mega @ Banettite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Destiny Bond
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Shadow Sneak/Shadow Claw
Mega Banette is a pretty good check to Sawk since it can switch in, identify the opponent's item with Frisk (knowing whether it's choiced or not in advance is really useful), and if it is a banded Sawk that's locked into Close Combat or Poison Jab, Banette gets a free turn to Mega-Evolve and burn something with Wisp. It gets a +10 bonus to all its stats thanks to its RU tiering, giving it decent bulk and a massive base 175 attack, which is higher than Kyurem-B's! That makes it a pretty good revenge killer with Shadow Sneak, or it can opt for Shadow Claw instead if stallbreaking is a higher priority.
 
I could have sworn EQ was standard on CB Sawk. Non-stab coverage options like Ice Punch and Poison Jab suck to be locked into and are usually only used out of desperation, in my experience anyway. I would rather run sleep talk (if I cant fit a sleep absorber) since if Sawk's not spamming CC, Knock Off or EQ, it has no business being out there.

EQ also eliminates would-be counters Arbok and Weezing that happen to be listed here.
 
I could have sworn EQ was standard on CB Sawk. Non-stab coverage options like Ice Punch and Poison Jab suck to be locked into and are usually only used out of desperation, in my experience anyway. I would rather run sleep talk (if I cant fit a sleep absorber) since if Sawk's not spamming CC, Knock Off or EQ, it has no business being out there.

EQ also eliminates would-be counters Arbok and Weezing that happen to be listed here.
Well, without Poison Jab, Aromatisse walls it, which is honestly more common imo
 
Well, without Poison Jab, Aromatisse walls it, which is honestly more common imo
You are probably better off using other pokemon to deal with Aromatisse. Otherwise, you could cut Ice Punch, which doesn't outdamage CC unless on 4x effective targets.

My point is Mold Breaker EQ is too good not to run. It doesn't just hit poison types, it also gets those annoying levitating ghosts predicting CC. Furthermore, the whole point of CB / Specs user is to spam moves that few pokemon can comfortably switch in on and Mold Breaker EQ is one of the best moves for that purpose.
 

EV

Banned deucer.

- Alomomola
- Check
- This is one of the most used Pokemon in all of Tier Shift because it's so damn hard to take down. While it can't hit anything very hard, it instead focuses on the deadly Toxic stall strategy with Wish+Protect to slowly kill the opponent. Scald is good for burning when you can't poison something or if you need to neuter a physical attacker right away instead of waiting for Toxic to take hold. Regenerator acts like a handicap, letting you switch out Alo if you make a mistake, plus the synergy it gives with Wish is enormously helpful for the rest of your team and as such it's probably the best Wish passer in the metagame. Some sets can use Knock Off or Waterfall for more damage, but Alo is in for the long haul and isn't too concerned with its damage output, rather it wants to bleed the enemy slowly.

Can't Touch This @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Wish
- Toxic
- Protect

This is probably the most common set. It won't be doing any immediate damage to Sawk, but it will wear Sawk down between Wish+Protect and Toxic or burn from Scald. The spread is as physically bulky as you can make it because the specially defensive set can be easily 2HKOd by CB Sawk. If you're switching in, you'll need to be at full health and then use Protect the next turn to create as much as a buffer as possible before using Toxic. In that scenario, Alo will actually have to switch out to regain HP with Regenerator and then back in later, making it a multi-turn check. If it's not switching in, it can immediately use Toxic, then Protect, then Wish, then Protect, and so on.

Calcs:

252 Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 240-283 (43.3 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Alomomola Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Sawk: 55-66 (17 - 20.4%) -- possible 5HKO (just for show, will probably be using Toxic 9/10 times)
 
Week 4 (Metagiamate):

Thanks a lot for providing good counters to Sawk! Please feel free to post more Sawk checks as we are lacking a few. PM me if you're wondering why your/an entry wasn't chosen. This week's victim is Dragonite in Metagiamate!



Dragonite @ Choice Band
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Fire Punch
- Iron Head
- Earthquake

Dragonite is one of the most dominant threats in the Metagiamate metagame (lol.) Access to an incredibly powerful priority STAB Extreme Speed makes it incredibly difficult to wall. Its fantastic traits doesn't end there; access to Multiscale, incredible coverage moves, and decent bulk allows it to provide extreme offensive pressure. Overall, it's easy to see why Dragonite is such a stellar threat in Metagiamate.

Also, if you intend to reserve a check/counter, please try to complete it within at least a week's time.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
i can agree with kit, weakness policy is by far, dnites best set. send it in on a poke like azu, even if people hit you with a non s/e move, you still get up a dragon dance to sweep.

edit:actually, jesus christ banded is a pain...i ran hyper offense, so i ALWAYS had rocks up...so im going to have to withdrawl my "nomination" lol
 
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I personally feel Banded isn't that big a deal for a properly prepared team, especially if you are a god of prediction. It commits to Earthquake, you switch in a Ground immune. Extreme Speed=Fairy switch. Iron Head=anything resistant to Steel and vaguely bulky. (Like Skarmory) Fire Punch=Flash fire, anything resistant to Fire and vaguely bulky (Or really anything even vaguely bulky and not vulnerable) etc.

In particular, since it's really easy to force it out with a diverse team, over and over and over again, it suffers enormously if you can get Stealth Rock up, turning the entire battle into being about them trying to keep your Rocks gone (Assuming they can remove them) while you try to KO their Rock-clearer and keep Rocks up. Banded Dragonite, against a good team, tends to not do much directly.

I'd rather see people coming up with checks and counters to the standard Dragon Dance build, which is much more able to do stuff like Dragon Dance while you switch and then KO things that would be able to check or counter it if it was unboosted, and then KO another thing, and another thing... all without needing to switch.
 
lum berry/wp ddance set is the hardest to counter/check

Still, I'd like to post my favourite metagamiate pokemon that I've used from the begining of the meta.


-Mega Aggron
-Check (counter to ddance sets)
-The choice was simple, best phisical bulk in pokemon history. The main reason why he sn't used in OU is the lack of recovery, but I figured that because metagamiate battles usualy ends quickly, it wasn't that important.
-Aggron-Mega @ Aggronite
Ability: Filter
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Return
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
SR is also an option to weaken stuff like entei/noivern and dragonite, but I think this set is better since it can deal with lucario/terrakion/Ttar/scizor (I had a scizor set up on me once and I don't want it to happen again. It's also good to anticipate a switch on ferro)

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 106-126 (30.8 - 36.6%) -- 61.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 72-85 (20.9 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
Dragonite will never 2hko Maggron even at +1. While ice punch will always 2hko.
If it already mega evolved, Maggron can switch on any attacks of ddance dragonite. unfortunatly, if it switches on an cb eq and dragonites multiscale wasn't broken, it will lose 62% of the time. That's the only reason I put check and not counter. (but think about it, focus blast has 70% chance of hitting, yet it never hits. So 62% chance of winning against cb dragonite isn't that bad)
If you notice that the dragonite isn't cb, it's better to go for return+ice punch so that you don't activate wp by mistake.

Also, according to the definition you gave of a check, that makes every fairy or flying type a check to the cb set.
 
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Well, countering threats in metagamiate is hard since it's the bane of every stall team, but the right gimmicky set can counter the top threats.

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Protect

This Heatran set can switch into any of Dragonite's moves prior to losing it's air balloon, so while the balloon is intact it's a counter. Keeping the balloon intact isn't that hard since Tran is immune to half of Dragonite's moves, so as long as you also have a fairy type on your team to make your opponent hesitate about locking into a Dragon-type Extreme Speed, you can keep your opponent guessing. Even if the opponent does predict correctly, banded Extreme Speed can't 3HKO.

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatran: 99-117 (25.6 - 30.3%) -- 0.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Stealth Rocks has great utility since it breaks Dragonite's multiscale when it switches back in, and it also takes a decent chunk out of some other threats as well, such as Entei and Noivern. Lava Plume has an amazing burn chance, and it's extremely crippling to physical-attacker heavy teams which is quite common since this metagame has so many physical attackers due to all of them getting a STAB Return now. Roar is useful for phazing and racking up SR damage, and Protect allows you to scout for whatever move enemy choice users lock themselves into.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
oh wow...i derped...completely forgot dragonite got dragon type espeed and not flying i retake azumarill and will post a set in a second.

edit again: god damn it if eq wasnt a thing... ill have to withdrawl again. lel
 
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In my experience Banded's only important advantage is that Unaware doesn't ignore Band boosts, and is otherwise much easier to fight.
 
Week 5 (PU):

The last Victim of The Week pretty much died out as only two people provided submissions. Please feel free to post more checks/counters to other victims as we are lacking quite a few. PM me if you're wondering why your/an entry wasn't chosen. This week's victim is Musharna in PU! Don't let this week's victim die!

Musharna @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: NaN Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Psychic
- Moonlight
- Baton Pass

Musharna is stellar in the current PU metagame. Its great bulk, access to Thunder Wave along with good Special Attack allows Musharna to cripple a large amount of threats with ease. Furthermore, Musharna's access Baton Pass allows it to grant momentum to recipients; as such, it's easy to see why Musharna is so good in the current PU metagame. Bear in mind that some counters to this set must be reasonably prepared for various Baton Pass recipients, as well as Thunder Wave.

Also, if you intend to reserve a check/counter, please try to complete it within at least a week's time.

You may now post.
 
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Wouldn't the CM set be FAR more ideal for victim of the week? I mean, the pivot set is nice and all as you can get your Sneasel in for free and whatnot, but it's really not a potent offensive force that you need to wall like typical VotWs. If anything the best course of action against pivot Musharna is to lay down rocks while it's in or something.

The CM set on the other hand only has a small amount of counters and something not to be taken lightly.

I guess I'll reserve Zweilous then.


Zweilous @ Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Outrage
- Dragon Tail
- Superpower

252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Zweilous Crunch vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 390-458 (90 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

'nuff said

Being a dark type, Zweilous is immune to psychic, and being so slow, thunder wave doesn't bother it that much. Thanks to this, and the fact that it has a chance of OHKOing Musharna with crunch or severely denting it with outrage, means that it's one of the best Musharna switch-ins in the tier.

Crunch and Outrage are obligatory STAB moves. DTail is decent when hazards are up and is Zweilous' second strongest Dragon move that isn't Dragon Rush. While it may seem that after adding Superpower fairies completely wall this, the only defensive Fairy, Wigglytuff, is neutral to it and the others are all 2HKO'd by crunch. 64 speed EVs is to outspeed base 65's with 4 speed EVs like Pelipper and Walrein.
 
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Wouldn't the CM set be FAR more ideal for victim of the week? I mean, the pivot set is nice and all as you can get your Sneasel in for free and whatnot, but it's really not a potent offensive force that you need to wall like typical VotWs. If anything the best course of action against pivot Musharna is to lay down rocks while it's in or something.

The CM set on the other hand only has a small amount of counters and something not to be taken lightly.

I guess I'll reserve Zweilous then.
I actually talked about it in IRC; the pivot set is said to be better and harder to counter overall, so I changed it.
 
Because of twave, this set isn't really easy to handle compared to the calm mind set since most of the few mons that can break Musharna (sneasel, etc) absolutely abhor twave.

Anyway, I think I want to reserve scraggy, because it completely sets up all over this set thanks to shed skin and might actually be decent in this tier thanks to its unique typing and access to the rare dragon dance.
 
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Pivot Mushy is definitely one of its best and most popular sets. The thing is damn near impossible to kill (I have yet to see an unboosted instance of it being OHKOed) and can make it near impossible to do so unless you're carrying slow pursuit/u-turn/volt switch.


In an attempt to redirect discussion back to the VotW, reserving Krokorok
 
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That's the thing that irks me about having this set as VotW - while it's a great set and perhaps even the best Musharna set, anything that doesn't really mind a twave and isn't wiped off the board by psychic (which isn't exactly a legendary feat since it's uninvested) can come in on it without much fear at all. And yes, Mushy can baton pass to something to gain the initiative, but if that's something to be taken into consideration nothing can be truly defined as a counter to it.

Really the best way to deal with this in my opinion is just take advantage of its lack of offensive presence to heal up a team member or lay down rocks instead of being focused on outright killing it straight away. Once more offensive teammates have fallen it's easier to deal with since without something strong to baton pass to it can't do that much.

I definitely get the definition of beating a set. What I'm saying is countering a wall isn't really something VotW should strive to do as opposed to instead focusing on informing people of ways on how to wall a potent offensive threat that may or may not have swept them before. The list of things that can come in on that Musharna set with little to no drawback stretches from half the PU tier to even almost every NFE and LC Pokemon. Now compare the list of counters that this set has to that of CM Musharna with or without Baton Pass. Since the latter has offensive presence, the list of counters drastically reduces.

The goal of this thread is to try and teach newer players how to beat some of the not-so-easy to beat Pokemon in the tier. Honestly, I doubt that anyone has found themselves having no solution to a support set in comparison to it's CM variant or things like Swoobat, Nasty Plot Simis, or Sneasel. Hence why I think the CM set would be far more effective for VotW. It can sweep teams and is far more dangerous in general, despite the fact that it might be worse than the set in the OP.
 
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My wall isn't very inconvenienced by being paralyzed, is it? Due to that I'm pretty content that I got the opportunity to lay rocks down.

I definitely get the definition of beating a set. What I'm saying is countering a wall isn't really something VotW should strive to do as opposed to instead focusing on informing people of ways on how to wall a potent offensive threat that may or may not have swept them before. The list of things that can come in on that Musharna set with little to no drawback stretches from half the PU tier to even almost every NFE and LC Pokemon. Now compare the list of counters that this set has to that of CM Musharna with or without Baton Pass. Since the latter has offensive presence, the list of counters drastically reduces.

The goal of this thread is to try and teach newer players how to beat some of the not-so-easy to beat Pokemon in the tier. Honestly, I doubt that anyone has found themselves having no solution to a support set in comparison to it's CM variant or things like Swoobat, Nasty Plot Simis, or Sneasel. Hence why I think the CM set would be far more effective for VotW. It can sweep teams and is far more dangerous in general, despite the fact that it might be worse than the set in the OP.
The ability to come in doesn't make it beat the set is what I'm saying. I mean a Metang CAN come in on a Raichu, does that mean it beats it? No. A mon that beats this set would be something with the ability to A. pursuit trap or B. pivot in at the right moment, which is tricky to do, hence why we're helping people beat it.

And stall is VERY potent in PU, so educating people on how to beat it is a must
 
The ability to come in doesn't make it beat the set is what I'm saying. I mean a Metang CAN come in on a Raichu, does that mean it beats it? No. A mon that beats this set would be something with the ability to A. pursuit trap or B. pivot in at the right moment, which is tricky to do, hence why we're helping people beat it.

And stall is VERY potent in PU, so educating people on how to beat it is a must
I'm still pretty sure Zweilous can beat this set tho. If it can come in multiple times and attack on switch it's doing significant damage to the opposing team. And if it desides to stay in. It's 2hkoe's by crunch and can deal no damge.
If zweilous isn't paralized it can set up a sub or even taunt to stop baton pass.
 
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