Data ASB Viability Rankings

[smashlloyd20]

To address two of the things Texas mentioned:

Mega Aerodactyl: I think nobody has really shown this thing's true power. Let's look at all the great stuff Maero gets: STAB Fly Attack combined with Edgequake for coverage with huge Attack, it outspeeds everything so it has awesome Fly/Taunt/etc. shenaniganry, it's G1 so it gets nifty stuff like Fly, support like Stealth Rock...this thing has massive utility and beatdown power on the offensive end. I'd say B, maybe B-.

Aggron: I think everyone is more or less aware of Aggron's strengths and weaknesses by now. Hits absurdly hard, gets murdered by STAB Fighting/Ground attacks and a lot of special stuff, has a couple nice support shenanigans with Metal Burst and such. That said I don't think it deserves B, probably B- at best.

 

[Dogfish44]

Gym Team Comments

Emolga: E is fine. Without an arena letting it use Acrobatics + Everstone it's not really that usable.
Electivire: C- --> B-. Electivire's incredibly large movepool is backed by a solid speed, that can even go -speed and still beat base 80s if it desires. Also has a Gen 1 Movepool, and whilst a good amount of it is just Normal/Fighting moves, EVire's coverage is notable for being very wide.
Rotom: A- is fine. I think. I don't like having Rotom as a single ranking, it would, imo, be better to have each forme ranked.
Cyclohm: A+ is fine.
Eelektross: B is ssuitable.
Krilowatt: A+ is probably more appropriate, owing to the Magic Guard boost.
Lanturn: E --> C+ (Or Higher maybe?). Lanturn has one of ASB's most potent combinations, in Soak and Water Gun, giving it STAB 4x SE on pretty much any wanted target. It's also surprisingly bulky, especially when backed by Everstone.

Might comment on my other mons later.

 

[Gerard]

Mollux to B+: Mollux is one of the most polarizing pokemon there is, he's average in singles but it's just amazing in doubles, his movepool is almost tailor made for it and it's typing it's great aside from the ground weakness. The biggest testament to how powerful mollux is can be found in TLRs, specifically how so many TLRs have adapted themselves to have multiple mons with ground or psychic moves where they would otherwise have no business having, and at least one pokemon with STAB on it (mostly traps). As Mollux would steamroll all Ice, Grass, Water, Fairy & Steel based TLRs without them. Also, multiple battles allows him many ways to negate it's biggest weakness with the help of partners that can use Telekinesis, Wide Guard, Imprison, Skill Swap, etc...

Slowbro to B+: Slowbro has an amazing movepool and good enough stats to abuse it. It's good bulk also allows him to be a great supporter and a Knock Off weakness is a blessing in disguise when you can use weakness policy. The fact that the only way to prevent Slobro from using Trick Room is by sing Imprison is also very impressive, again, support comes very high when considering slowbro as untauntable Heal Pulses, Thunder Wave, Yawn, Trick Room, etc... are very good without having to use Aromatisse. And fuck Slowking.

Krillowatt: I'm having trouble with this because the fact he needs Life Orb to do good damage to pokemon with a good Special Defense thanks to those 3/3 offenses (likely lowered to 2/3 because of nature) and he has no way to discourage Knock Off other than Protect, Double Team & Dive. Other than that I agree Krill is amazing, Imprison Earth Power, Earthquake, Bulldoze eliminates most common ground moves, Trace is an amazing ability to have as Gardevoir can testify & it's speed is awesome for such a bulky mon.

Conkeldurr to remain B+: Conk does one thing only, Hit Hard, he does it pretty well but other than that Conk has no tricks. It's bulk is ok though but it can't really beat most Psychic and Fairy types. That being said Cyclohm has the same problems, no tricks yet expansive coverage and good defenses so I can see it getting to A- at least

 

[waterwarrior]

IMO Swampert should be moved from D anywhere from C to B (or at least C-). Having Bide, Counter, and Mirror Coat makes it really hard for the opponent to sub for anything else, and yeah the 4x Grass weak sucks but looking at the higher tiers, there are mons up there that have far worse weaknesses (especially Mega-Garchomp and Mega-Scizor). Plus, its got Water/ Ground/ Ice/ Fighting/ Rock/ Steel/ Dragon coverage on the physical side alone, so its not like there are many times where you'll be up against an opponent and have nothing to hit it with. Hell, IMO its better than Gyara, and thats B+

 

[Its_A_Random]

Yeah but other than that, why would I want to use Swampert over one of the several other Water/Ground-type Pokémon out there such as Gastrodon for example, who has Countercoat, three superior abilities and the almighty Pain Split for starters? Literally a better Physical Movepool and Bide are the only things it has over Gastrodon, which pretty much leaves it kinda outclassed. When Mega Swampert comes there will be even less reason to use regular Swampert as Swampert will only be good for the fact that it has a Mega Evolution. C- is okay for it but the problem with Swampert is competition, especially for a spot in a Ground-type Gym team where it is horribly outclassed.

Nidoqueen: B Rank (Or either B- or C+)

Nidoqueen for all intents and purposes is a Female Nidoking except the fact that it is slower and has less Attack, pretty much making it nearly outclassed by Nidoking. The thing it does have over Nidoking is the fact that it is a Female, which is relevant due to the way Rivalry works. It beats virtually the same threats Nidoking does and can be an effective teammate for Nidoking if you wanted to be crazy and try a double Nido onslaught core or something. Her ranking pretty much depends on how much she is considered to be outclassed by Nidoking but the fact that she plays similar to king means that Nidoqueen is not to be underestimated.

Simipour: C- / D Rank

Simipour is a niche Water-type who simply takes on the role of a fast, offensive Water-type. With a Water Stone in tow, Simipour can become deceptively powerful and Simipour has an okay support movepool to boot. While this separates the water monkey from its fellow Water-types, the competition is still omnipresent and the fact that skill frog made waves at the start of this generation did Simipour no favours. It is by no means a bad Pokémon but Simipour's problem is that it is somewhat outclassed, especially in the fast offensive Water-type build because of skill frog. C Rank is okay for it though.

Hitmontop: D Rank

Contrary to what Geodude said, this is not a Doubles+ ranking list (Well OP implies Singles by mentioning 1v1 matchups) and in Singles, Hitmontop is pretty bad and faces a lot of competition from the other Hitmons. Even as a spinner he gets competition. The only thing he has to separate himself from other fighters in the Singles environment is his eclectic set of abilities and a massive Sp. Defence boost from Rare Candy that nobody really cares about. It is basically outclassed in a singles environment and D Rank is fine.

Gourgeist-S: C- / D Rank

This is basically a case of "why would I want to use this over Necturna?" Firstly, it is crazy fast. 114 Speed assuming a +Speed nature is nothing to scoff at and with a Size Class of 1, it can reliably dodge quite a lot (this also differentiates Gourgeist-S from its larger forms). It also comes with three useful abilities (Pickup / Frisk / Insomnia) which are generally better than Forewarn and Telepathy in a Singles environment. Finally with Trick-or-Treat, Gourgeist-S can reliably hit the majority of opponents Super Effectively by using its signature move before spamming powerful Ghost STAB like Phantom Force and uhhh Shadow Sneak or Shadow Ball. This pretty much helps make up for its lack of offensive presence. It also has a similar support movepool with a 100% Accurate Will-o-Wisp, Pain Split and in Gourgeist-S's case, annoying moves like Destiny Bond, Trick-or-Treat and even Worry Seed and Light Screen. It is much better in Doubles than Singles but in a Singles environment, Gourgeist-S—while generally outclassed by Necturna—definitely has a niche that can make it worth using.

Swoobat: B- / C+ Rank

The classic Stat boost abuser and probably the best of the bunch when it comes to standalone users. For those unfamiliar, the goal of Swoobat is to abuse Simple to jack its Sp. Attack and Sp. Defence to maximum values as soon as possible before making up for lost actions really quickly via a spammable (generally) 26 BAP nuke that can 3HKO many neutral targets and even 2HKO some SE targets. The introduction of Weakness Policy this generation made Swoobat a lot more dynamic and as a floodgate, puts the opponent into a bit of a bad way. Either they hit it with a Super Effective move and let Swoobat get access to a 26 BAP move after just one action, or they left it hanging to its Weakness Policy and let Swoobat set up without losing too much health. Swoobat also has a lot of tricks to assist it in getting that setup more smoothly as well but yeah. As a stat booster, the usual anti-stat boost tech will typically work against Swoobat alongside other problems like frailty and the fact that it is nothing without the stat boosts. B- or C+ overall is a fair assessment.

===

That is all for now I guess. #anotheriartldr

 

[Gale Wing Srock]

I can see

​

Talonflame as C- / D Rank

It has access to some decent support moves like Taunt, Tailwind, Will-O-Wisp, Quick Guard, Snatch and Sunny Day. Has a few good special moves like Fire Blast, Flame Thrower, Hyper Beam, Solar Beam, HP (water/ground). And its signature ability helps it with Priority Brave Bird, Roost and Tailwind; even when its item is knocked off, it has a great attack in Acrobatics. One of the best doubles offensive-support pokemon, and would easily fit into most doubles teams and has potential as a doubles/triples lead in ASB.
With access to Priority Fly and Flame Charge it can be sure to get a few damaging evasive attack on opponents. Facade helps it against status and LO Flare Blitz hits hard enough. It is also probably one among the few who can use a choice item in ASB with decent effect. It is not as good in singles and needs a lot of support but is a good revenge killer.

 

[Geodude6]

So I'm thinking Zweilous should be C rank. It hits like a truck with 100/5/5/3/5/58 stats with Hustle and Eviolite, but has a poor movepool, is slow, and is very vulnerable to Knock Off.

EDIT @ below: Yeah D seems a bit more fair as it's not terrible.

 

[AOPSUser]

So I'm thinking Zweilous should be C rank. It hits like a truck with 100/5/5/3/5/58 stats with Hustle and Eviolite, but has a poor movepool, is slow, and is very vulnerable to Knock Off.

"has a poor movepool, is slow" is seriously understating Zweilous's flaws here.

Yeah it hits like a truck, but most of C-Rank already hits harder anyways. Kinda hard to justify putting Zweilous in a rank with Tyrantrum, Magnezone, and Magmortar on the basis of power.

Eviolite gives it nice defenses but that doesn't fix the sheer amount of weaknesses that Zweilous has compared to, say, Electivire. It also makes it even more vulnerable to Knock Off, Frisk, Embargo, and Wonder Room than every C-Rank mon (except Sunflora and Chansey).

Its movepool sucks. There's no other way to put it. Thanks to Hustle, you are essentially relying on an 8 BAP move with 80% Accuracy as your main STAB, because Dragon Rush and Outrage have massive drawbacks of their own. Its powerful coverage consists of a bunch of special moves, Superpower, Zen Headbutt, Aqua Tail, and Head Smash, and it has no support movepool (okay it has Torment but still). Its Speed is also horrendous, especially since Zweilous can't learn Trick Room (and can't even use it that well anyways because 58 is faster than a lot of mons). Its main flaw, though, is the accuracy. Personally I'd leave Zweilous in E, but I guess you could make a case for D maybe? It definitely is not Garchomp or Mega Houndoom.

Also imo Mega Medicham could move up a bit. Its support movepool is heavily outclassed by Gallade but its physical movepool is practically the equivalent of Gallade's (but with HJK>CC!) while coming off a natural Rank 8 Attack stat. Its Speed is also quite good.

 

[Dogfish44]

Zweilous can stay in E-Rank, the crippling weaknesses to Knock Off and Fairy Moves, the lack of power, the lack of viable support movepool (See: It's too fucking slow), make it unplayable at any reasonable level.

 

[Its_A_Random]

Talonflame is probably worth a C- Rank though more testing needs to be done with it. A Power Bracer variant looks fun at a glance as the speed drop is offset by Gale Wings and +8 Damage to Physical Attacks really gives it some useful offensive presence.

Zweilous would have been worth a C- last generation but it is largely outclassed and changes around it have pretty much crippled it. It should not be ranked.

Emolga is probably worth a look at in D owing to a typing nothing else has in ASB and it can be quite dangerous with Everstone. It is a pretty great annoyer but it is nothing spectacular; it is D at best.

As far as things I have that personally have, the following should not be ranked for these reasons:

• Gligar: Outclassed by Gliscor, reliant on Eviolite (giving it bad offensive presence), 98 Speed at +Speed means it fails to outspeed some relevant threats that Gliscor can and less than stellar coverage. Might be worth a D but I do not think it should be ranked.
• Pachirisu: Horribly outclassed by the majority of Electric-types and it cannot even get a decent benefit from Everstone (+2 SpD and +2 Electric BAP is kinda ass).
• Luvdisc: What Water-type does not outclass Luvdisc?

The following are worth a D at least (Well I might miss a few here):

• Stunfisk: Solid defensive mon with a plethora of annoying attacks like Pain Split, Bide, Endure, Reflect Type, Camouflage and some other useful techs but I have not used it in yonks so I could be underestimating it a bit. It is definitely good enough for at least D.
• Dugtrio: Trapper, very difficult to take on in a Sandstorm and benefits a lot from Rare Candy. Its ridiculous Speed and okay support movepool help compliment its raw power in optimal conditions. It suffers from being frail and being easily crippled.
• Sandslash: Somewhat overshadowed by Excadrill, Sandslash is a decent spinner with enough decent options to differentiate itself like Knock Off and Gen I techs. Can be a bitch to face in the Sandstorm.
• Wormadam Sand: Only Wormadam without major competition issues, comes with two useful defensive abilities and a half decent support movepool. Seems like a textbook D I guess.
• Seismitoad: Generally overshadowed by Gastrodon, Seismitoad is a cool mixed attacker... Yeah a textbook D?
• Cofagrigus: Mummy, Toxic Spikes, a decent support movepool in general alongside naturally high bulk differentiates it enough from its competition to be worth a look at in D? Have not used it in forever though.
• Hitmontop: Already elaborated on this.
• Slaking: Could be higher thanks to ridiculous attack and a decent support movepool but Truant kinda hurts it in a way.
• Garbodor: Rare Candy goodness, Stench, super powerful boom and an underrated support movepool work for it well enough to warrant a ranking.
• Klinklang: This or unranked, Plus/Minus alongside some useful unique options like Gear Grind give it good enough reason to be ranked.
• Sudowoodo: Rock Incense gives it a reason to use it and its movepool is decent enough already to help its cause.
• Lunatone: Everstone beneficiary but Lunatone is underrated, especially with support. Screens, Magic Coat, Pain Split, Endure, Stealth Rock, Skill Swap, Heal Block and a few others. Decent Special Attacker as well.
• Linoone: Generally living in the shadow of Ambipom, Fling + Pickup + King's Rock is good enough... Yeah it looks largely outclassed by Ambipom... meh. Still should get a rank?
• Malaconda: Horrible Typing, Harvest is generally meh but its Support movepool is pretty good alongside its special bulk and physical attack.
  
• Cawmodore: It is a good Belly Drum user? Also deviously fast and has an okay support movepool. Needed Taunt though.
• Wailord: Taunt immunity to help it in support, high HP, decent attacking movepool. Ehhh seems okay in D?
  
• Alomomola: High natural HP allows it to do well in 1v1 matchups and it has a good support movepool. Regenerator is cool. So is Pain Split. Yeah.

This should be updated soon imo.

 

[Its_A_Random]

I am going to take over and start a new thread since Texas does not want to maintain this any more.

Watch this space.