XY NU Dun Sleep On Scyther...

Kiyo

the cowboy kid
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How’s it going smogon? It’s your friendly neighborhood horse Kiyo here, and today I’m going to be bringing you my first real RMT. I say my first real RMT because I’m pretty sure I made one like 3 years ago but it was some trash VGC team, so I’m not counting that shit. Anyways this team came about in a giant teambuilding spree I had about a week ago now. I had lost all of my teams because I’m retarded and deleted my cookies, so I figured there’s no better time to start building.





Honestly I don’t remember how the fuck these six members came together so I’m gonna make up some shit about how I cleverly threw them together and they synergized perfectly.


So typically when I build my teams I pick some shit mon that I wanna see get used more or I build around an interesting core and support it the best I can. In this case I got a little of both. Sheer Force Steelix has to be one of the most underused and underrated threats in this meta, it’s also surprisingly good in RU but that’s another story for another RMT. Honestly to all you people out there running Steelix for it’s amazing typing and insane bulk unless you’re running full stall don’t fucking run max defense. I mean holy shit this thing hits 436 defense uninvested and it’s attack stat is nothing to scoff at, you might as well use it… I’ve been running max attack adamant Steelix since early gen 5 so I know how powerful of a set it can be.


While Steelix does have an amazing typing in Ground-Steel, it’s weak to pretty much every special attack that’s not named thunderbolt or volt switch. Togetic actually covers most of Steelix’s weaknesses pretty well and shoutout to user Davon for pointing that out in the good cores thread a while ago. Pretty much every fighting type in the tier can be handled by mixed defensive Togetic and the only real special attackers that threaten this core are Magmortar and Electivire, you can typically predict around the latter and checking the former is fairly easy thanks to its sub par speed stat.


So at this point I can take the team in a bulkier direction or a more offensive direction, typically this is how my teams end up. I decided to go a little more offensive this time so I decided to just check the threats to my core instead of having reliable ways to switch in and beat them. Something that takes on electric type pokemon a little more reliably than Steelix is definitely a good start. Keep in mind this role on my team is something that can switch in on weaker attacks maybe once or twice before I have to start predicting or sacking things to save my ass. Rotom in its normal form serves a nice role for my team, it adds an element of speed gives me a way to keep my stealth rock on the field if I need it, and can switch in on pokemon like Electivire while also checking stronger threats like Feraligatr that can set up and break down my core.


Seeing as I already have probably the most reliable way to remove hazards on my team I think at this point it’s safe to add on something a little weaker to entry hazards to give my team a little more offensive presence. I decided to try Scyther for the second time this generation. Let me just say Banded Scyther hits like a fucking truck, don’t sleep on this shit.


I decide to put some more pressure on Togetic by adding another gigantic threat that just so happens to be weak to rocks. Sneasel is amazing for this team because it just breaks down shit for Scyther, if you can get an ice punch or two off on things like Granbull, Seismitoad, and other physically defensive walls Scyther can just run through weakened teams. Liepard used to be in this spot just for encore support for my last member but I found it very underwhelming and to be honest the momentum I gained from U-turn I can just gain by double switching so there’s really no loss there. I go with eviolite for random situations I’ll explain later.


As you can see nothing on this team resists fire, and honestly that type is becoming more and more common on not only offensive but balanced teams as well. Granted that my team has already taken a more offensive approach to dealing with common threats I decided to stick with that theme. Typhlosion and Pyroar are the main threats I’m concerned with because I have reliable ways to check Magmortar, Heatmor, etc. Typhlosion and Pyroar are unique because they’re in a speed tier my team falls into, but they can also commonly carry choice items so I have to play a little more carefully checking them. If I fall into a situation where say I lose Sneasel or Scyther to a Fire Blast because I predicted specs over scarf I need something that can take advantage of this offensively. I say offensively because Togetic can chew hits for days but its not gonna get the job done with stealth rock and piss poor Dazzling Gleam damage. Omastar can take advantage of fire types locked into STAB moves and it also has the added advantage of my opponents being wary of spamming those attacks blindly.

So like I said I just lied to you about how I built this team, but hopefully you can see the different roles the members perform and the synergies they share. Without further ado, onto the sets.








Steelix @ Life Orb

Ability: Sheer Force

EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe

Adamant Nature

- Stealth Rock

- Earthquake

- Iron Head / Thunder Fang

- Crunch


I said it once already in the team building process, but I know most people don’t read those so let me just say… unless you’re running full stall don’t fucking run max defense on Steelix. It doesn’t need the extra bulk to be able to deal with the threats you’re trying to take on. Swellow, Kangaskhan, BD Slurpuff, Archeops, Liepard, Klingklang, etc. are all still countered by offensive Steelix. This mon hits 436 defense uninvested and has incredible typing. With its hidden ability Sheer Force and a Life Orb equipped it has all the tools necessary to hit like a truck. Stealth Rock is very easy to set up reliably with Steelix and greatly helps all teams in the current metagame. Earthquake is obligatory STAB and hits extremely hard. Iron Head is chosen over Gyro Ball or Heavy Slam for a few reasons, one I’m running a little speed investment, and two Iron Head doesn’t take life orb recoil and is boosted by Sheer Force. Both pretty obvious but I’ve actually had people ask me why I don’t run one of the alternatives. The last move slot is kind of a toss up depending on what you’re trying to do with Steelix. Most of the time I find Crunch has great neutral coverage in the tier and hits things like lead Uxie a little harder than Iron Head. However you can run Thunder Fang if you’re worried about Feraligatr trying to set up on you, or if you’re just feeling queer and want to run an elemental fang. The given EV spread lets you outspeed min speed Spiritomb before it can burn you, and still allows you to take hits well and dish out huge chunks of damage.



Togetic @ Eviolite

Ability: Serene Grace

EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 SpD

Calm Nature

- Dazzling Gleam

- Roost

- Defog

- Encore

In my opinion Togetic is the most reliable way to remove hazards, it gives you the most opportunities to defog and leaves you less vulnerable to big threats than the other defoggers in the tier, barring maybe Swanna. This is just my opinion of course, but I’m pretty set with this one, try and convince me otherwise. Togetic like Steelix also has an amazing defensive type combination that allows it to beat nearly every fighting type in the tier. Couple that with amazing bulk with an Eviolite and you’ve got a prominent mixed wall that can switch in on a ton of things from Pyroar to Sawk. Anyways onto the set, Dazzling Gleam is there for an attacking move so that you’re not complete Taunt bait, and its also nice to hit some things for a small chunk of damage. Roost is a reliable recovery option and allows Togetic to stick around for most of the battle, whether stealth rock is on the field or not. Defog is the best move this thing has access to hands down, and is an amazing support option for any team. Encore is something a little different that you don’t see too often. On offensive teams such as this I don’t find much need for Heal Bell because for one, it basically wastes a turn you could be using Togetic as a pivot into a threat, and two once something is statused I’ll typically prioritize sacking it, not to mention you don’t let important shit get para’d or burned. Encore is useful as a way to stop things like Feraligatr and Gorebyss from setting up on you while also giving you potential set up opportunities for Omastar. The given EV spread is just standard from what people were running in RU prior to Yanmega and Zoroark leaving the tier, and it serves a similar purpose here it allows Togetic to check the widest variety of threats possible. You can honestly go fully defensive or fully specially defensive if you prefer though.



Scyther @ Choice Band

Ability: Technician

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Jolly Nature

- U-turn

- Bug Bite

- Aerial Ace

- Quick Attack


Dun sleep on Scyther… this thing is an amazing pokemon that people commonly overlook. Whether it be the 4x Stealth Rock weakness or the fact that its classified as LC Uber on Pokemon Showdown’s teambuilder, the fact of the matter is this thing is underused. I’ve been running variants of Scyther since the beginning of Gen 5, while scarf and swords dance are extremely viable I’ve been most impressed by the choice band set in this metagame. CB Scyther takes souls, if I’m not feeling lazy I’ll post some relevant calcs below so you all can see the true power. I prefer Choice Band over something like Swords Dance due to the fact that you receive immediate power, a lesson my good friend Omfuga employs in most of his teams. (Seriously they’re all a 2 wall core with 4 choiced mons, usually 3 choice specs)

252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 169-201 (40.8 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 102-120 (34.9 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slurpuff: 156-184 (42.3 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Vileplume: 320-380 (90.3 - 107.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garbodor: 160-190 (43.9 - 52.1%) -- 17.2% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scyther Bug Bite vs. 40 HP / 252 Def Lanturn: 216-255 (53.8 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



Your’re doing some respectable damage there, quite frankly when paired with another powerful physical attacker that has similar checks and counters (cough Sneasel cough) you can wear these walls down rather easily not to mention the switchins like Granbull and Torkoal only work when rocks aren’t up or in Granbull’s case when it gets off an intimidate.

Scyther’s EV’s are pretty straight forward for a fast choice banded attacker so I’m only mentioning them to keep consistent. Bug Bite and Aerial Ace take advantage of Technician and STAB, these two moves are your bread and butter. When one of the former can’t get the job done just click the gen 4 button and U-turn out. If you’re in a bit of a pickle against a set up mon or you’ve misplayed and lost a check Quick Attack can save you in a pinch and will often times sweep weakened teams late game.




Sneasel @ Eviolite

Ability: Inner Focus

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Jolly Nature

- Swords Dance

- Ice Punch

- Knock Off

- Ice Shard


While I may have just mentioned Choice Band being great for immediate power, on this team I prefer SD Sneasel. The main role this mon fulfills is breaking down Scyther’s counters, I don’t give a shit if I only get a +1 Ice Punch off on a Granbull before going down. That’s exactly what it’s here for it has a job and it does it well. Plain n’ Simple. EV’s are standard. SD to beat things with intimidate easier and also for breaking down stall teams. Knock off is a god send to this generation click it and watch shit suffer. Ice punch is a solid move but I suppose you could drop it for brick break or something if you really want. Ice Shard is a nice “oh shit” button when you fuck up and it also hits hard with a swords dance up. Now some of my friends have been giving me shit about running eviolite on Sneasel because I called it trash earlier this gen. I now realize the error in my ways, it’s not a bad item choice and allows Sneasel to get some hits and set up on bulkier mons that it wouldn’t be able to with Life Orb. It also has the benefits of not being worn down by recoil, and being able to chew fake outs from retarded users who mindlessly click fake out with Kangaskhan despite the fact that the mon in front of them has Inner Focus. Seriously people stop that shit, most of the time you should be clicking Double-Edge with Kanga.



Rotom @ Choice Scarf

Ability: Levitate

EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Timid Nature

- Thunderbolt

- Shadow Ball

- Volt Switch

- Trick


I swear to god there are only a handful of users smart enough to use this thing. Rotom is a don, switch in’s to this thing are few and far between on nu teams these days. Rotom has the versatility of being a spin blocker, a great revenge killer, an amazing mon to cripple bulky walls, and a powerful electric type. Again a standard EV spread and standard moveslots, really not much to say about this lord other than the fact that people other than Soulgazer and FLCL need to use it.



Omastar @ Life Orb / White Herb

Ability: Swift Swim

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Timid Nature

- Shell Smash

- Hydro Pump

- Ice Beam

- Hidden Power [Grass]


Omastar is a pokemon that I’m sure gets mixed reviews, people will often say its hit or miss. I honestly feel like people play offensive Omastar poorly. This thing doesn’t need a shell smash to dent special walls, and typically you come in on something you scare out anyways so the speed isn’t too much of an issue. For this reason I typically run Life Orb over White Herb, but its an option. The power boost is noticeable and I don’t smash enough to justify the herb imo. EV’s aren’t anything special just trying to hit hard and go fast. Great coverage between water ice and grass and I’m a man so I run Hydro. Surf is for pussies. Omastar just sorta bring everything together, he can sweep late game if the opponent slips and he can also force the opponent to lose a physical wall like steelix or rhydon just so they don’t get swept by a potential SS, this works great in tandem with Scyther and Sneasel.




Well that’s my RMT, I hope you all enjoyed and can look past some of my foul language. If you have any comments or critiques leave em’ below I’m sure there’s stuff that can be improved but I’ve had a lot of success with this team and wanted to share it with the community. Most of the threats to my team are pretty easy to play around as long as you don’t fuck up, and I’m also tired as hell and don’t feel like writing anymore to make a threatlist. I’d do shoutouts but again, tired. You all know who you are. Thanks for the read guys, if you wanna become a Horselet head on over to my YouTube Channel and my Twitch page @Kiyo392 (I had to advertise right?). That’s all for me folks, I’m bad at saying goodbye, I know…



Steelix @ Life Orb

Ability: Sheer Force

EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe

Adamant Nature

- Stealth Rock

- Earthquake

- Iron Head

- Crunch


Togetic @ Eviolite

Ability: Serene Grace

EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 SpD

Calm Nature

- Dazzling Gleam

- Roost

- Defog

- Encore


Scyther @ Choice Band

Ability: Technician

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Jolly Nature

- U-turn

- Bug Bite

- Aerial Ace

- Quick Attack


Omastar @ Life Orb

Ability: Swift Swim

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Timid Nature

- Shell Smash

- Hydro Pump

- Ice Beam

- Hidden Power [Grass]


Rotom @ Choice Scarf

Ability: Levitate

EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Timid Nature

- Thunderbolt

- Shadow Ball

- Volt Switch

- Trick


Sneasel @ Eviolite

Ability: Inner Focus

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Jolly Nature

- Swords Dance

- Ice Punch

- Knock Off

- Ice Shard

 
You have a massive fire weakness, however, as long as you keep full offensive pressure, I'm sure you can avoid it however, it would be nice to have switch ins to fire mons where you don't lose a mon on your team to beat it one on one, since if you play a scarfed typhlosion, you're almost indefinitely furcked. So I'd suggest changing a mon that can pivot on fire types easily instead of omastar possibly, because there's also no way an omastar is living a fire blast and hp grass from pyroar. I'm not too sure what you would want for this change but I'd highly consider looking at a new 6th member imo. Also, Iron head on steelix is more powerful than Earthquake I believe after sheer force boost, so it's your main go to STAB. But other than that, great RMT Kiyo :]
 
Sup Kiyo cool team, it looks really cool. It takes advantage of tons of unexpected threats, and looks like a pretty awesome team. This said, the single scariest thing I worry about for your team is the threat of Fire Spam, as you pretty much only have Omastar to switch into strong attacks such as Specs Typhlosion Eruption or Life Orb Magmortar Fire Blast. You have a easy time wearing them down and pressuring them offensively, but frankly fire spam teams that contain more than one of these become a very major a serious threat to your team, as you have no way to deal with them whatsoever. I also feel that Knock Off is pretty annoying to your team, as it cuts the defenses of two of your critical mons, makes Steelix much weaker, and smashes Rotom.

The easiest thing to do is just to use Assault Vest Hariyama over Sneasel. They have similar resistances, break down Scyther's checks equally, but more importantly Hariyama can smash Fire types as well as absorb Knock Off for the rest of your team, rounding it off. It's fighting STAB beats Steel and Rock types meaning to switch into Scyther, while it also acts as a great pseudo revenge killer with moves such as Bullet Punch and Fake Out. It is just one extra assurance on top of Omastar to make sure that fire types dont run through you!
______________

Hariyama @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch / Fake Out
- Bullet Punch
 
Sup Kiyo cool team, it looks really cool. It takes advantage of tons of unexpected threats, and looks like a pretty awesome team. This said, the single scariest thing I worry about for your team is the threat of Fire Spam, as you pretty much only have Omastar to switch into strong attacks such as Specs Typhlosion Eruption or Life Orb Magmortar Fire Blast. You have a easy time wearing them down and pressuring them offensively, but frankly fire spam teams that contain more than one of these become a very major a serious threat to your team, as you have no way to deal with them whatsoever. I also feel that Knock Off is pretty annoying to your team, as it cuts the defenses of two of your critical mons, makes Steelix much weaker, and smashes Rotom.

The easiest thing to do is just to use Assault Vest Hariyama over Sneasel. They have similar resistances, break down Scyther's checks equally, but more importantly Hariyama can smash Fire types as well as absorb Knock Off for the rest of your team, rounding it off. It's fighting STAB beats Steel and Rock types meaning to switch into Scyther, while it also acts as a great pseudo revenge killer with moves such as Bullet Punch and Fake Out. It is just one extra assurance on top of Omastar to make sure that fire types dont run through you!
______________

Hariyama @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch / Fake Out
- Bullet Punch
Brawl, I contemplated suggesting this over sneasel, however he needs to replace omastar since that's his poke that handles firespam, Sneasel has a different role in his team.
 
Brawl, I contemplated suggesting this over sneasel, however he needs to replace omastar since that's his poke that handles firespam, Sneasel has a different role in his team.
No he doesn't he really needs both Omastar and Hariyama to fight firespam. Even if he had Hariyama > Omastar, Fire Spam would overcome him due to sheer pressure and the loaded amount of resistances he has. Without Omastar, he also loses his only source of strong special attacks as Rotom is rather weak, and as a result many physical walls that would otherwise beat Scyther remain intact. If anything should be replaced, Sneasel should as it opens more weaknesses, and Hariyama still helps to wear down similar things Sneasel would aim to bait out and damage.
 
I agree with everyone who said something about the need to replace sneasel with hariyama. Hariyama breaks down everything scyther can't and provides counter to fire spam.


Other than that, the only other thing I can think of is possibly running twae over encore on Totgetic to slow down those pokes that outspeed scyther. Other than that, this team is pretty fucking good, gj mayne!
 
No he doesn't he really needs both Omastar and Hariyama to fight firespam. Even if he had Hariyama > Omastar, Fire Spam would overcome him due to sheer pressure and the loaded amount of resistances he has. Without Omastar, he also loses his only source of strong special attacks as Rotom is rather weak, and as a result many physical walls that would otherwise beat Scyther remain intact. If anything should be replaced, Sneasel should as it opens more weaknesses, and Hariyama still helps to wear down similar things Sneasel would aim to bait out and damage.

I've seen him use the team on the ladder, fire doesn't give him too much trouble at all. Sneazel does play different a role that hariyama couldn't and should be replaced by omastar if anything was to be replaced.
 

soulgazer

I FEEL INFINITE
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Hey Kiyo

I know that you like Togetic A LOT, but I feel like all it does is lose the precious momentum your team try to maintain, so you should probably try a Swanna over it if you didn't already (you mentionned it somewhere in the rmt, but idk if you actually tried it lol). It's also a bird so you can't go wrong with it :toast: Nah but seriously it helps a bit against Fire-types (Togetic can wall them, but again, it's just a sitting duck) while still being able to check Fighting-types.

I also agree with trying out Hariyama or another strong Fire-type switch in somewhere on your team as you are quite weak to it, but I would only make that change if you feel like Shell Smash Omastar isn't enough (it pressures the opponent into not locking themself on Fire Blast, but if they aren't Choice locked they will become an issue).

Hope I helped, and nice team :)
 
Last edited:
Hey Kiyo

I know that you like Togetic A LOT, but I feel like all it does is lose the precious momentum your team try to maintain, so you should probably try a Swanna over it if you didn't already (you mentionned it somewhere in the rmt, but idk if you actually tried it lol). It's also a bird so you can't go wrong with it :toast: Nah but seriously it helps a bit against Fire-types (Togetic can wall them, but again, it's just a sitting duck) while still being able to check Fighting-types.

I also agree with trying out Hariyama or another strong Fire-type switch in somewhere on your team as you are quite weak to it, but I would only make that change if you feel like Shell Smash Omastar isn't enough (it pressures the opponent into not locking themself on Fire Blast, but if they aren't Choice locked they will become an issue).

Hope I helped, and nice team :)

Togetic's only real job is to defog and cripple other pokemon for the eventual scyther sweep. That's why I suggested Twave over encore on Togetic. The addition of Hariyama well take ALOT of pressure off Togetic to deal with special attackers, specifically the fire spam.

I'll be honest SG, Swanna is bad.

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Swanna: 234-276 (80.4 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Swanna: 155-183 (53.2 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Regardless of the evs, It's a 2hko.

So yea, please dont even try Swanna, replace Sneasel with Hariyama so that alot of pressure to deal with special attackers is taken off Togetic.



BTW Brawlfest .. SHouldn't you run 252 ATK and 252 SP.Def of yama instead of 252 hp...?
 
Togetic's only real job is to defog and cripple other pokemon for the eventual scyther sweep. That's why I suggested Twave over encore on Togetic. The addition of Hariyama well take ALOT of pressure off Togetic to deal with special attackers, specifically the fire spam.

I'll be honest SG, Swanna is bad.

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Swanna: 234-276 (80.4 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Swanna: 155-183 (53.2 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Regardless of the evs, It's a 2hko.

So yea, please dont even try Swanna, replace Sneasel with Hariyama so that alot of pressure to deal with special attackers is taken off Togetic.



BTW Brawlfest .. SHouldn't you run 252 ATK and 252 SP.Def of yama instead of 252 hp...?
252 SDef maximises Special Defense, but HP gives you a nice Mixed Defense, you dont really lose that much on SDef due to sheer fatness, but some extra Physical Bulk is really useful. His choice though :]
 

Kiyo

the cowboy kid
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Ok so let me start off by saying thanks everyone for all the rates. I will agree with all of you that on paper my team seems incredibly weak to fire type pokemon. However in practice I'm sure you'll find that they aren't as difficult to play around as it might seem. I've listed the calcs of the most common fire type attackers in the tier below on my togetic spread below.

252 SpA Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 115-136 (36.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 171-202 (54.6 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Pyroar Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 127-150 (40.5 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Pyroar Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 109-130 (34.8 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Pyroar Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 84-100 (26.8 - 31.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Magmortar Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 102-121 (32.5 - 38.6%) -- 99% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Expert Belt Magmortar Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 134-158 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Magmortar Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 93-111 (29.7 - 35.4%) -- 22.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Magmortar Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 122-146 (38.9 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


so basically for all fire type attackers I have a similar game plan. Scout the set with togetic, if theyre a weaker fire type attacker I can stall them out of pp with roost or encore them into a move to set up with Omastar. In the event the fire type attacker is able to beat togetic and omastar 1v1 (magmortar is an excellent example) my gameplan changes and I have to rely heavily on the speed of sneasel and scyther to check the opposing fire type attackers. based on team preview every game one of my pokemon has a tough time breaking through the opposing team (this is bound to happen with any team) you'll find I can usually sack either togetic or the pokemon in question in order to either regain momentum with scyther rotom sneasel, or set up with omastar if i know the fire type is choiced. for example if the opponent has a hariyama, I will prioritize sacking sneasel if stealth rock are on my side of the field because in this case its more important to keep scyther alive and by association togetic so that I can defog.

I realize people tend to use the excuse of "i can play around it" when making rmt's and while typically its a lot more difficult than it sounds, with this team I have had no problems doing so. there is always a member that is less valuable than all the others, and only 2 sets of all the relevant fire types directly threaten a 2HKO on togetic without rocks. keep in mind that none of the sets will ever OHKO togetic even with stealth rock so creating a gameplan is always possible and debate-ably very easy depending on the opponents team structure.

Not sure if i got the point across cuz I retyped this like 12 times, but in conclusion to better check fire types you either need to play more intelligently or run a more specially defensive spread on togetic. I never feel like i lose momentum with togetic as I'll typically sack it if it's job is done and I'm in danger of losing momentum to a strong threat that I have no switch in to, and encore allows me to never lose momentum against set up mons. I may consider replacing sneasel for a safer fire check, but in all honesty the speed tier is so important i think i may lose the ability to check a lot of important things.

If I can find some good replays showcasing this, I'll edit them in.
 
Ok so let me start off by saying thanks everyone for all the rates. I will agree with all of you that on paper my team seems incredibly weak to fire type pokemon. However in practice I'm sure you'll find that they aren't as difficult to play around as it might seem. I've listed the calcs of the most common fire type attackers in the tier below on my togetic spread below.

252 SpA Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 115-136 (36.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 171-202 (54.6 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Pyroar Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 127-150 (40.5 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Pyroar Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 109-130 (34.8 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Pyroar Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 84-100 (26.8 - 31.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Magmortar Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 102-121 (32.5 - 38.6%) -- 99% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Expert Belt Magmortar Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 134-158 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Magmortar Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 93-111 (29.7 - 35.4%) -- 22.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Magmortar Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 122-146 (38.9 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


so basically for all fire type attackers I have a similar game plan. Scout the set with togetic, if theyre a weaker fire type attacker I can stall them out of pp with roost or encore them into a move to set up with Omastar. In the event the fire type attacker is able to beat togetic and omastar 1v1 (magmortar is an excellent example) my gameplan changes and I have to rely heavily on the speed of sneasel and scyther to check the opposing fire type attackers. based on team preview every game one of my pokemon has a tough time breaking through the opposing team (this is bound to happen with any team) you'll find I can usually sack either togetic or the pokemon in question in order to either regain momentum with scyther rotom sneasel, or set up with omastar if i know the fire type is choiced. for example if the opponent has a hariyama, I will prioritize sacking sneasel if stealth rock are on my side of the field because in this case its more important to keep scyther alive and by association togetic so that I can defog.

I realize people tend to use the excuse of "i can play around it" when making rmt's and while typically its a lot more difficult than it sounds, with this team I have had no problems doing so. there is always a member that is less valuable than all the others, and only 2 sets of all the relevant fire types directly threaten a 2HKO on togetic without rocks. keep in mind that none of the sets will ever OHKO togetic even with stealth rock so creating a gameplan is always possible and debate-ably very easy depending on the opponents team structure.

Not sure if i got the point across cuz I retyped this like 12 times, but in conclusion to better check fire types you either need to play more intelligently or run a more specially defensive spread on togetic. I never feel like i lose momentum with togetic as I'll typically sack it if it's job is done and I'm in danger of losing momentum to a strong threat that I have no switch in to, and encore allows me to never lose momentum against set up mons. I may consider replacing sneasel for a safer fire check, but in all honesty the speed tier is so important i think i may lose the ability to check a lot of important things.

If I can find some good replays showcasing this, I'll edit them in.

Well you explained that excellently, I see what you mean now, I still feel twave>encore tho :p, but that's just me.

What will you do now that Omastar has moved up? Replace it with Gorebyss??
 
Well you explained that excellently, I see what you mean now, I still feel twave>encore tho :p, but that's just me.

What will you do now that Omastar has moved up? Replace it with Gorebyss??
Kaubutops is now NU; I switched it for him and it is p good switch
 

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