Creative and innovative sets :) no shitty gimmicks

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Jukain

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Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
Modest Nature
- Recover
- Giga Drain
- Earth Power / Hidden Power Fire
- Nasty Plot

so i was running psong celebi w/ a spatk spread cuz of a team weak to crocunes bd azu n lando... and i realized how much dead weight psong was every time i wasnt facing a crocune. so i decided to run np recover bi, and holy fuck has it performed. my major prob w. (more) standard np 3 atks bi is that you can't use it to check things like land and keld consistently enough...sure it will break down teams in some scenarios but you lose the enormous defensive utility of celebi. this set has some nice offensive presence, sorta like this awesome recover 3 atks set i saw on one of ctc's teams but with the actual ability to sweep and easily break through stuff like crocune, that's surprising from a celebi that's still going bulky and people will send in heatrans in the skip of a heartbeat to a presumably defensive celebi. last slot coverage is interchangeable, you can even run psychic over giga if you want espec if you're hera or venu weak.
 
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Trickscarf Taunt Rest Gothitelle is worthless. Complete garbage. A pathetic attempt at making a "stallbreaker" that, in all honesty, shouldn't even exist, regardless of whether this is in a ladder or tournament environment. It's literally the biggest waste of a teamslot in 95% of all games while you get the occassional "good matchup" 5% of the time. That is not smart teambuilding or Pokemon'ing or playing or whatever. It is a shitty ladder gimmick innovated by people such as this guy who define the ladder and make me wonder whether the ladder is worth anything at all or just inherently doomed to be worthless. If those kind of players are "top of the ladder" (and apparently this guy was) and are considered "the most skilled players of the game" then I'm glad to outline why this set is as awful as it is.

First of all, when looking at this set in a ladder environment, it might make sense. The higher-up ladder is dominated by Stall and for good reason: A bad player using Stall will pretty much always beat a bad player using Offense; the Stall player can just keep making systematic A-B switches while the Offense player will be unable to make the "plays", or double switches and right long term decisions needed to break that cycle of switches. By that logic you also don't need your whole team of 6 to handle all offensive threats since you're never really "threatened" by most players, which in turn means that you can devote that spot to a stallbreaker of your own. This means that, on the ladder side of things which is filled with mediocre and awful players, Stall will always dominate, so a Stall team that is able to beat other Stall teams will obviously do well. (Note that this only applies to "bad" players or "ladder" players; note that I might use the two synonymous at times when they obviously aren't always to be used in such a fashion but that's just how I see it when stuff like this awful Gothitelle set runs rampant. Furthermore, on a higher level of play, most of the stuff I outlined above obviously doesn't apply anymore as many more opportunities to outplay your opponent get used by "high level players". That is the reason why Stall as a whole is a lot more common on ladder than in tournaments: it's a lot easier and affordable to "play well" or "make plays" with Offense against Stall or even Offense against Offense than Stall against Offense as the stall players risks losing a crucial part of their team by going for double switches or by trying to deny double switches against an offensive player and thus can't risk it most of the time.)

However, that is inherently flawed thinking. By adding this set we are basically telling players "here, instead of actually thinking or improving your game just add this Pokemon which leaves you down 5-6 against offense but kind of wrecks some stall teams, especially on ladder". That is not the kind of thinking we should advocate or even promote. That is not to say that every player should run offense or "try to make plays" or whatever; Stall is obviously still a very valid option but when you use a Pokemon that literally only beats some sort of stall and is complete deadweight against other forms of stall while pretty much always being deadweight against offense, balance and other such things (I'll get to this later) then something is wrong; we should not offer shitty "ladder techs" as part of our analyses which will basically just make every single team ever worse but instead aim to actually make people better players and, in turn, teambuilders, especially when way better alternatives exist that won't make you a sitting duck against everything other than the one form of Stall you try to beat with that Gothitelle set such as Mega Mawile, Mega Medicham, Landorus-I, some Thundurus-I sets, Gengar, Taunt Heatran and, amusingly enough, regular Gothitelle sets. Obviously not all of these can singlehandedly beat every stall team, but they sure as hell can do it more effectively than TrickScarf Taunt Gothitelle. Except for the regular Gothitelle maybe, but at least that has other uses. Even stall can add win conditions against other stall teams that also have other uses such as Calm Mind Clefable or Stallbreaker Mew. There's always a different way than this pitiful Gothitelle set and, as I said before, we shouldn't promote the use of niche sets without an actual niche to our readers.

As for why this set sucks as much as it does, look at common battle situations. I'll always take a look at a more offensive inclined team and a more defensive inclined team using the Gothitelle in question facing off against Stall/Balance/Offense. While this obviously won't apply to all of the teams in any given category, it should give a pretty adequate estimate.

Goth Offense vs Stall: You don't even need Gothitelle in this matchup and it's pretty much a dead slot. Other Pokemon would be more useful to have in this scenario but I guess it's a "guaranteed" way to cripple a Pokemon thats troublesome to one of your sweepers. No idea why you would have this over a Gothitelle that can harm Pokemon instead of just PP Stalling most of them in vain though.

Goth Defense vs Stall: Depends a lot on the teams, but generally you'll cripple one of their walls which gives you an advantage, although that's kinda offset by the fact that the "modern" kind of Stall teams usually only have one of their Pokemon crippled by Gothitelle as Pokemon such as Charizard X are way more common and abuse the heck out of the free turns given my pathetically weak Psyshocks. That is, if you can even manage to successfully trap one of their Pokemon. Generally, though, Gothitelle should do well if you play smart.

Goth Offense vs Balance: Depending on the trappable Pokemon you might be in a pretty good position. However, as this is probably one of the best matchups for regular/Specs/whatever Gothitelle your Taunt Gothitelle probably feels rather useless and "dead weight". I would call this a good matchup for Gothitelle but that makes me question why the fuck you wouldn't use a normal set so I won't.

Goth Defense vs Balance: You can probably eliminate a key threat, but again, if you had a different win condition over this garbage you could probably do just as well. Depending on the offense the balanced team mounts crippling one of their mons with a Scarf can be helpful. Would be more helpful to actually kill something, though, and if there's a Mega Mawile you're kinda boned.

Goth Offense vs Offense: This is where Gothitelle just shows off its supreme shittiness. You will be down 5-6 pretty much all game because you will NOT be able to sufficiently trap something with just Psyshock and Trick. And even if you could, it's not like Gothitelle can really come in against anything (Keldeo just 2HKOs you while you don't OHKO back, etc) so if you really want to trap something you'd have to go 2 for 1 unless your opponent is a goober. Not to mention that the last thing an offensive teams wants to do is having a +2 full health Life Orb Bisharp on their ass. Or a full health +1 +1 Zard X. Or one of many other threats. Probably worse than useless actually.

Goth Defense vs Offense: Again, you "potentially" "cripple" one of their mons but then what? You don't have a 6th Pokemon with actual defensive utility you might need and will just get beaten down. Case in point being the replay posted at the start; if he had a Dragonite or something with actual utility it would have been much harder for me to just steamroll him, but as it stands he just got demolished.

That's the main problem with this Gothitelle set: In the matchups where it actually does well a regular Gothitelle would probably serve you just as well, or a different Pokemon altogether. In the matchups where it just gets destroyed, anything would be better, whether thats a different Gothitelle set, a Pokemon that is better suited to do anything at all but give out free turns like candy or even not having a 6th Pokemon at all. Outclassed doesn't even begin to describe this Gothitelle set: in some cases it even leaves you at a severe disadvantage. And with the decline of Mega Venusaur on stall, even that "niche" of destroying one of the old archetypes of stall is gone. Modern stall focuses more on Pokemon such as Scizor and Charizard whom you don't stand a chance against. It is a horrible ladder gimmick that was invented to reduce the thinking needed (on par with stuff such as Haze Quagsire; I hope I don't have to write up a post as to why that set is also flawed in many ways) but, in an actual "high level playing circuit", just falls flat on his face and leaves you at a severe disadvantage. There is almost nothing to gain from using this set and a lot to lose. There are so many Pokemon that do a role similar to it and, in many cases, even better. It's completely and absolutely terrible and I hope I outlined why that is the case. This is not getting an analysis, period. I don't even want a mention of it just because I honestly believe this is nothing any team in high level play (which is what we should prepare our readers for, as "ladder" or "lower level play" is a lot easier to adapt to once you actually know what you're doing) should ever utilize and I hope I made clear why.

Disclaimer: Obviously, not all ladder players are terrible and it would be dumb to think that. However, unless something drastic happens, I will always view the general population of the ladder as terrible because of sets like this existing. This post is in no way meant as an insult to any players in particular, but if it got interpreted that way then I'm sorry; maybe you shouldn't use TrickScarf Taunt Rest Gothitelle. And I'm sorry that this kinda ended up also touching upon the ladder and its players rather than just Gothitelle but I really felt like I had to explain why this even became common when it shouldn't have.
 

Jukain

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Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Thunder Punch

I originally made this as part of a joke ct, but it's actually legit as fuck. I'd always tossed around the idea of TPunch Medi to fuck with Slowbro, but I could never justify it for my team. Then I tried the Drain Punch + TPunch combo, and it worked out to be really effective. TPunch is a nice move on Mega Medicham. It lures Slowbro nicely and OHKOes bulky Starmie which is increasing in popularity. It also gives a nice n clean OHKO on Gyarados, which may decide not to evolve in case you predict that. It also does craploads of damage to Azumarill, a pesky check, Moreover, it actually lets Mega Medicham run Drain Punch without the loss of effectiveness against Skarmory, as TPunch 2HKOes Skarmory, which is really helpful for it. Drain Punch combos great with Sub for obvious reasons, and stops Mega Medicham from falling prey to Protect mindgames and such, as it has an easy option to bypass this. It's also more reliable than HJK, not missing and healing Medi. HJK is still a cool option if like me you like OHKOing Rotom-W (lol) and literally obliterating everything in existence but Drain Punch is very nice to have so you don't have a mini heart attack every time you go for an attack.
 

Jukain

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double posting because old post and new set ~

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Roost

My biggest complaint with DD Zard X is that often, I find it has trouble sweeping. All of the sand teams, the Thundurus, way too many Scarf Land-T/Terrak/Keld, defensive Land-T, TTar, Heatran, you get the point. Furthermore, people will make plays accounting for Zard X that's going to Dragon Dance, ie switch directly to their Scarfer, go directly into Azumarill, and stay in with stuff to prevent a setup. With all these revenge killers, I often found myself not setting up DD at all, in the first place. So when I made a team and Heatran was kind of a problem, I decided to slot in EQ over DD, and it's performed excellently. Even without a boost, Zard X hits hard af. It's got a chance to 2HKO defensive Landorus-T after SR and 2HKOes Azumarill with resisted STAB Flare Blitz, strong mon. When people see Roost on Zard X, Heatran is often a fast response, which EQ nails nicely. DClaw and Blitz let you smash basically everything else into oblivion. By forgoing DD, it takes advantages of plays people will make against a setup, by avoiding any of the mindgames and just blasting everything to pieces, with Roost to heal up any damage incurred, especially from Flare Blitz recoil. It can often clear the way for other win conditions instead of being the win condition itself, totally catching opponents by surprise.

edit: someone actually asked me on ps what to use with this so a few things...

- SubDD normal Gyara is p nice. Zard X checks Thund and actually smashes through a lot of the walls that Gyara doesn't like, generally good at wearing the opposing team down
- Hazard removal is big, I'd pick that first, basically spin vs Defog.
- I've found this set works nicely on bulkier builds where you don't necessarily need or want the sweeper but want the hard-hitting Zard X, bluffs WoW set nicely and then you just annihilate them espec because you reveal your coverage (EQ or Blitz) and then they'll just go to whatever can handle that coverage.
 
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Okay so I was planning to post an RMT to showcase this set, but I really cbf laddering right now so

M-Heracross
48 HP / 208 Atk / 252 Spe, Adamant
- Substitute
- Bulk Up
- Close Combat / Pin Missile
- Rock Blast

I came up with this a while back but after the Aegis ban and Maw's suspect it's finally come into its own. Now, though, everyone uses Lando-T / Gliscor to check Heracross on defense, and this set actually turns them and a few other mons into complete set-up bait.

The idea is pretty simple, Sub and Bulk Up against the aforementioned Grounds to make the most of your nice resistances. 252 Spe puts you ahead of Tyranitar and everything which speedcreeps him, including most Gliscor/Lando. 48 HP is something to do with stopping Lando-T breaking your Sub before a Bulk Up. Pin Missile and Rock Blast give pretty nice coverage, 2HKOing essentially everything relevant except Skarmory (and M-Mawile if you're not playing suspect). If you aren't using this on suspect btw, always use CC > Pin Missile.

Anyway, I consider this set basically superior to the standard Swords Dancer atm. Vs stall, you lose out on a bit of crushing power against Skarmory, but you do just as well (or even slightly better) against physically defensive Unaware Clefable; and of course, Gliscor / Lando-T, which kinda check the standard, are just free boosts. Standard bulky offense is an even better matchup, because Lando-T is even more common as a catch-all physical wall.

As for partners, Healing Wish Latias is the most optimal. The health recovery obviously maximises the effectiveness of this set vs stall, but luring in Tyranitar / Chansey and so on is also great. Basically any physical attacker which can handle bulky Grounds works well too, e.g. Azumarill, which appreciates Skarm/M-Venu etc being weakened. Magnezone I guess should get a mention for taking out Skarm, and threatening max/max Clefable.
 
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Your set isn't very bad, but is it better than the standard SD + 3 attacks ? If you lack Pin Missile or CC you get walled by Slowbro and Skarmory (depending which move you lack, if you lack CC you get walled by Skarmory and if you lack Pin Missile you get walled by Slowbro), also you lose coverage on lot of things in general. Despite you said you also have a worse time against Gliscor because you need 1 more turn to become as threatening as the Sword Dance and you will get worned down by Toxic faster, and against Lando-T the SD set can setup anyway thanks to its natural bulk so Bulk Up isn't really need. Also your sentence about Unaware Clefable is completely wrong because it beats you in 1v1 anyway as the calc shows:

0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Mega Heracross: 188-224 (60.4 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 175-210 (44.4 - 53.2%) -- approx. 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

In general, I think that your Heracross is just worse than the "standard" one because it has less coverage and it takes more time to setup. The only set I can see working except the Sword Dance + 3 attacks is the Substitute + 3 attacks because of its ability to avoid status in general and will-o-wisps in particular, even if I always think that the best set is the SD + 3 attacks because of its good coverage and the ability to break stall teams. TBH I feel like that here we should post sets that have some niches respect the "standard" ones and even if they aren't generally as good as them because not as consistent, they still can be used with success in some teams and your Heracross doesn't follow that I guess. Sorry if Im somewhat rude but it's what I think, hope I didn't hurt your feelings. As a last thing, any Heracross should have 252 EVs in Attack in order to hit as strong as possible, if you want to have more bulk you can give up at some EVs in Speed but I would personally just use a 252 / 252 / 4 EVs spread because Heracross is already really bulk without any investiment. 1 example of that can be showed from this calc:

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Heracross: 256-303 (85 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
 
hello my name is hyper voice and i'm your worst nightmare.

agreeing with alex, the standard SD (/ Sub) + 3 attacks is better overall.
 
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Despite you said you also have a worse time against Gliscor because you need 1 more turn to become as threatening as the Sword Dance and you will get worned down by Toxic faster, and against Lando-T the SD set can setup anyway thanks to its natural bulk so Bulk Up isn't really need. Also your sentence about Unaware Clefable is completely wrong because it beats you in 1v1 anyway as the calc shows:
You missed the point of the set. Standard Lando-T vs SD 3 attacks comes in to get Intimidate, while you either boost or attack. Then it slow U-turns out, taking another hit in the process, to a faster attacker which can KO. Vs Gliscor, the standard gets poisoned and Protect-stalled - though the opponent will have to sac Gliscor if it switches in as Hera boosts.

My set can put up a Sub against Lando-T, which prevents the slow U-turn strategy from working; and if Lando-T attacks instead, it can't break the Sub and you just boost freely. Gliscor can't touch my set at all.

Turning otherwise solid (and extremely popular) checks into pure setup fodder is definitely worth it in my book. Sure, not being able to have both Pin Missile and CC leaves you with problems against either Skarmory or bulky Psychics, but in my experience the trade off is worth it.

Finally, I know "surprise factor" isn't the greatest argument, but I can't count the number of times someone's switched a Gliscor / Lando into Hera as I Sub, realised they have to go back to Skarm / Slowbro while I BU, and then been cleanly 2HKO'd by Rock Blast.

Literally the only pokemon which consistently wins against the set in practise is max/max Unaware Clefable on absolute full HP, and again, it does that against every single M-Hera set.

hello my name is hyper voice and i'm your worst nightmare.

agreeing with alex, the standard SD (/ Sub) + 3 attacks is better overall.
This is just dumb. M-Gardevoir beats every M-Heracross set unless it switches into an attack.
 
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I said that to make you understand that Mega Heracross works as a hit n run sweeper against offensive teams. Sub + Bulk Up is useless because you lose an important STAB that would give you a better answer against a stall and Bulk Up would be good only if Swords Dance didn't exist. Why would you up Hera's defense while you will probably be forced to switch out / while Swords Dance allows it to OHKO everything...
 
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Lol I literally just explained exactly why.

I said that to make you understand that Mega Heracross works as a hit n run sweeper against offensive teams.
"Hit and run sweeper"...? Oxymoron much. Anyway sure, it basically finds a way to come in, kills something, and gtfo's against offense. So does SubBU. CC + Rock Blast is all the coverage it needs against offensive teams (like seriously Pin Missile helps against Lati@s and that's it, and even then Rock Blast can sometimes OHKO Latios after one SR switchin). You're not losing anything here by using SubBU - and in fact I think Sub, easing prediction, is often more valuable than the extra coverage move.

Sub + Bulk Up is useless because you lose an important STAB that would give you a better answer against a stall
Answered this perfectly adequately in my last post, but whatever...yes, assuming CC + Rock Blast coverage, Slowbro beats you. At +1 and behind a Sub you can safely 2HKO it, which is a common scenario, but that's not my point. In using my set vs stall over the SDer, you're simply trading the ability to beat Slowbro (and again, only if it switches directly into you) for the ability to set up safely against two of your most popular initial switchins, Gliscor and Lando-T.

Why would you up Hera's defense while you will probably be forced to switch out / while Swords Dance allows it to OHKO everything...
You up Hera's defense because it allows it to Sub effectively against Lando-T / Gliscor. At +2 you get pretty much the same 2HKO's against physical walls as at +1 - although I concede that if you're running CC, +2 is better against Skarmory if it's between 70-99% health. Or if you're stacking a lot of entry hazards, which is when +2 Hera can actually OHKO things like M-Venu.

"Probably be forced to switch out" is the stupidest thing I've read on Smogon recently, I'm actually just going to ignore that (for gods sake don't ask me to explain why). Swords Dance does allow it to OHKO most things, but as you boost you're vulnerable to revenge killers switching in, you get crippled by Gliscor, and you lose every time to the Lando-T + faster offensive mon combo I explained earlier.

To summarise, everything you just said is wrong. SubBU has a very clear set of advantages over the Swords Dancer, which often make it the more useful set.
 
Finally, I know "surprise factor" isn't the greatest argument, but I can't count the number of times someone's switched a Gliscor / Lando into Hera as I Sub, realised they have to go back to Skarm / Slowbro while I BU, and then been cleanly 2HKO'd by Rock Blast.
Your example is ridiculous man. Swords Dance over Bulk Up in this situation would've been able to kill (except in Lando-T's case since you'd be at +1) Skarmory + you would've kept your sub.

A Sub + 3 Attacks can easily set-up against Gliscor too, it doesn't need Bulk Up and it still can 2HKO the entire metagame thanks to its double STAB + Rock Blast (which does 46.7 - 55.2 to SpDef Gliscor). I mean SD is once again better here because if Gliscor taunts (considering it used Toxic while you subbed), you find yourself with a +2 Mega Heracross under a sub instead of +1. Isn't that a better situation for you ? I think it is.

The only good point of your set is, like you said, the ability to set-up against Landorus-T (in some cases) since it can't break the Sub with Stone Edge after a single Bulk Up. That's not bad but do you really accept to sacrifice some Hera's wallbreaking power to have a way to set-up against a single Pokemon ? Ok, that's your prob, but don't try to convince us by saying "this set is basically superior to the standard Swords Dancer atm", it's not.
 
Your example is ridiculous man. Swords Dance over Bulk Up in this situation would've been able to kill (except in Lando-T's case since you'd be at +1) Skarmory + you would've kept your sub.
Are we talking SubSD or just SD 3 attacks? If the latter, sure you're able to OHKO Skarm/Bro, but you lose to / get crippled by the initial bulky Ground switchin. Since this is completely wrong, I'll assume you're talking about SubSD. If so, you have exactly the same issues with coverage against SkarmBro as my set! The only advantage, as I stated earlier, is in being able to guarantee the KO on a Skarm above 70% HP with Sturdy broken. That's not a bad advantage to using SubSD, but it loses the ability of SubBU to maintain a Sub without losing significant health against Lando-T and Gliscor. Either way, you're incorrect.

A Sub + 3 Attacks can easily set-up against Gliscor too, it doesn't need Bulk Up and it still can 2HKO the entire metagame thanks to its double STAB + Rock Blast (which does 46.7 - 55.2 to SpDef Gliscor). I mean SD is once again better here because if Gliscor taunts (considering it used Toxic while you subbed), you find yourself with a +2 Mega Heracross under a sub instead of +1. Isn't that a better situation for you ? I think it is.
Oh come on this is utter bs. Sub + 3 attacks can't ever 2HKO specially defensive Gliscor, while it can always break your Subs with 2 Earthquakes. It completely walls you. God forbid you meet a physically defensive version. Sub + 3 attacks flat out loses to Gliscor, even if it gets a free turn to set up, while my set can set up on it 1v1 (t1: Sub - EQ, t2: BU - EQ, t3: BU - EQ breaks Sub, t4: Sub and you can't be touched and can 2HKO (or OHKO) whenever you want).

If you want to assume your Taunt Gliscor scenario actually happens, again vs SubSD, then BU still has advantages, and certainly isn't worse than SD. At either +1 or +2, you can only 2HKO even specially defensive Gliscor; in return, the SD version's Sub is 2HKO'd by Earthquake, while the BU version's Sub is 3HKO'd. There's a very likely scenario in which the BU version comes out of the matchup with a Sub up and +1/+1, whereas the SubSD would in the equivalent scenario be at +2 without a Sub; again, worse against practically everything but a high health WW Skarmory.

The only good point of your set is, like you said, the ability to set-up against Landorus-T (in some cases) since it can't break the Sub with Stone Edge after a single Bulk Up. That's not bad but do you really accept to sacrifice some Hera's wallbreaking power to have a way to set-up against a single Pokemon ?
Setting up against Lando-T is pretty massive. In my experience it's the most common initial switchin to M-Hera, and even with optimal play (U-turning immediately), my set is left with an intact Sub and +1/+1. Setting up against Gliscor, which I've just demonstrated, is also extremely important.

To make this simple; my set turns two of its most common switchins into setup fodder. In return, high health (85%+) Skarm can, if the opponent predicts correctly, WW it out; and Slowbro checks it (Psyshock isn't a guaranteed 3HKO, Fire Blast (lol) doesn't even get a guaranteed 2HKO and can miss, while Rock Blast 2HKO's at +1, so Bro has to Thunder Wave / Toxic and probably still sac itself or something else). Both these checks become ineffective if the opponent doesn't know what set you're running. In my opinion, this is a perfectly reasonable, if not outright beneficial, tradeoff.
 
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Srn

Water (Spirytus - 96%)
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OUPL Champion
See the thing is against lando-t, it really doesn't do much to you anyways. You just Rock Blast defensive versions twice, wearing it down to about 40% and it u-turns out and mega hera is probably forced out.
Ok instead, you get behind a sub as it switches in, and you bulk up to be at +1 defense (remember intimidate? you're getting up sub after lando-t is switching in). Then lando-t switches out perfectly healthy assuming you used bulk up or the switch in gets to handle a -1 mega hera behind a sub.
So mega hera behind a sub at +1 defense and a perfectly healthy lando-t or a -1 mega hera behind a sub and a lando-t at around 65%.
Or you just run SD and have -1 mega hera and a lando-t at 40%
Seeing as how one of mega heracross's greatest uses is to just wear down physical tanks for some win conditions on your team (that's what a wallbreaker does) I'd say SD still gives me a better match up against lando-t
I honestly just don't really even consider Sp. def gliscor an answer as it simply gets OHKO'd by +2 rock blast after SR :S
+2 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 325-385 (92.3 - 109.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

This is all for losing your ability to fight off slowbro and GREATLY decreasing your overall health, which in my eyes, isn't an optimal tradeoff. Remember Mega Hera has to switch into rocks, set up a sub, face the ever prevalent sand; without any form of healing this guy gets worn down super fast and loses the ability to check some dangerous stuff like mega gyarados or excadrill.

So basically i guess this gives you a free sub vs. lando-t and not much else. I'd still rather use SD+3 attacks.
 

jpw234

Catastrophic Event Specialist
Here's another fun little change for stall:

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Amnesia
- Toxic
- Recover

Quagsire is very good in this meta for stall, it notably beats the scary parts of Sand Offense, non-CB Azu, Bisharp, a whole bunch of Dragons, non-Outrage Char-X, etc. However Quag is incredibly predictable, it always is max/max HP/Def, Scald/Toxic/Recover/EQ, and EQ is pretty much filler. It lets you hit Heatran, Char-X, and Excadrill harder, but most (read: all) of the time, you'd rather be fishing for burns or using Toxic on something.
As I realized this and have been using Quag on every one of my stalls lately, I wanted to find something a bit more spicy for the fourth slot. And people in OU chat suggested Protect (possibly the least "spicy" move in the game, like really) and Stockpile...Stockpile was kinda interesting, but to be honest Quag's SpD stat is bad and boosting by 1 isn't really helping, and boosting your defense is not useful against pretty much anything but maybe Mega-Pinsir and Mega-Medi since you're already beating everything else anyway. Instead, you could run Amnesia, which doubles your SpD and simply locks out many HO teams from beating you at all. You can easily pick up a +2 on a Mega-Scizor, TTar, or Garchomp, and then:

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. +2 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 196-231 (49.7 - 58.6%) -- 71.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Amnesia again when it DMs you and then Recover.
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. +2 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 142-168 (36 - 42.6%) -- 91.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
HP Grass is still beating you, but HP Fire and Dark Pulse versions are losing, so scout the set first.

Moar:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. +2 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 161-191 (40.8 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Focus Blast vs. +2 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 117-139 (29.6 - 35.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. +2 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 178-210 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
WoW and Taunt are still annoying, but this shouldn't be your #1 M-Gard counter. Of course, beating it is still good.
252+ SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. +2 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 133-157 (33.7 - 39.8%) -- 29.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
This set doesn't exist; it also doesn't win.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. +2 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 190-225 (48.2 - 57.1%) -- 44.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. +2 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 142-168 (36 - 42.6%) -- 91.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

So, yeah, thing is a monster. Of course, it's not unstoppable. Any special attacker with a grass move is still wrecking you (Char-Y, Mega-Venu, and HP Grass Greninja, most notably), Breloom is still wrecking you, Taunt Mew/Gliscor still wins, Mega-Hera with Bullet Seed still wins. Thing is, you aren't using EQ on any of these anyway - you're trying to Scald burn them on the switch or Toxic them. Amnesia is pretty dead against stall - EQ is, too, outside of killing Heatran a little bit faster (and you're vulnerable to Lava Plume burns which make it slower than Scald anyway). Basically, giving up EQ for Amnesia isn't really making any of your matchups worse, but it is letting Quag 6-0 offensive teams that rely (quite reasonably) on stuff like Lando, Latios and Keldeo to break through Quagsire. Given how extraneous Earthquake is in the first place, that seems like a pretty good trade.
 

alexwolf

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Here's another fun little change for stall:

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Amnesia
- Toxic
- Recover

Quagsire is very good in this meta for stall, it notably beats the scary parts of Sand Offense, non-CB Azu, Bisharp, a whole bunch of Dragons, non-Outrage Char-X, etc. However Quag is incredibly predictable, it always is max/max HP/Def, Scald/Toxic/Recover/EQ, and EQ is pretty much filler. It lets you hit Heatran, Char-X, and Excadrill harder, but most (read: all) of the time, you'd rather be fishing for burns or using Toxic on something.
As I realized this and have been using Quag on every one of my stalls lately, I wanted to find something a bit more spicy for the fourth slot. And people in OU chat suggested Protect (possibly the least "spicy" move in the game, like really) and Stockpile...Stockpile was kinda interesting, but to be honest Quag's SpD stat is bad and boosting by 1 isn't really helping, and boosting your defense is not useful against pretty much anything but maybe Mega-Pinsir and Mega-Medi since you're already beating everything else anyway. Instead, you could run Amnesia, which doubles your SpD and simply locks out many HO teams from beating you at all. You can easily pick up a +2 on a Mega-Scizor, TTar, or Garchomp, and then:

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. +2 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 196-231 (49.7 - 58.6%) -- 71.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Amnesia again when it DMs you and then Recover.
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. +2 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 142-168 (36 - 42.6%) -- 91.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
HP Grass is still beating you, but HP Fire and Dark Pulse versions are losing, so scout the set first.

Moar:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. +2 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 161-191 (40.8 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Focus Blast vs. +2 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 117-139 (29.6 - 35.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. +2 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 178-210 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
WoW and Taunt are still annoying, but this shouldn't be your #1 M-Gard counter. Of course, beating it is still good.
252+ SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. +2 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 133-157 (33.7 - 39.8%) -- 29.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
This set doesn't exist; it also doesn't win.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. +2 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 190-225 (48.2 - 57.1%) -- 44.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. +2 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 142-168 (36 - 42.6%) -- 91.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

So, yeah, thing is a monster. Of course, it's not unstoppable. Any special attacker with a grass move is still wrecking you (Char-Y, Mega-Venu, and HP Grass Greninja, most notably), Breloom is still wrecking you, Taunt Mew/Gliscor still wins, Mega-Hera with Bullet Seed still wins. Thing is, you aren't using EQ on any of these anyway - you're trying to Scald burn them on the switch or Toxic them. Amnesia is pretty dead against stall - EQ is, too, outside of killing Heatran a little bit faster (and you're vulnerable to Lava Plume burns which make it slower than Scald anyway). Basically, giving up EQ for Amnesia isn't really making any of your matchups worse, but it is letting Quag 6-0 offensive teams that rely (quite reasonably) on stuff like Lando, Latios and Keldeo to break through Quagsire. Given how extraneous Earthquake is in the first place, that seems like a pretty good trade.
Nice idea for Quag's last slot, statusing all those threatening special attackers that want to break past Quagsire is incredibly useful for stall teams. However, i want to say that EQ is still a very good option on Quagsire if only to deal with stallbreaking Heatran, which would otherwise get a free switch-in against Quagsire and proceed to annoy the hell out of a stall team.
 

Jukain

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it's not an idea i came up with on my own but definitely p underrated. anyways, set...



Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power Fire

the one thing i always miss when using greninja is whatever coverage i don't opt for in the last slot. if i don't use a grass move, i'm walled by certain things, especially giving azumarill free switch-ins as well as mons like mega gyara and slowbro. but if i don't use a fire move, then ferro just comes in every time and ruins my day. but greninja needs extrasensory, right? wrong. think about what extrasensory hits. some calcs on the extrasensory targets (keldeo and venu):

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 237-281 (73.3 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 232 HP / 4 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 140-166 (38.9 - 46.2%) -- 24.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, already a chance and just a small bit of prior damage will secure it

since it's not like greninja can't touch these pokemon without extrasensory, you can actually forgo it altogether and run gk + hp fire. with gk + hp fire, you cover azu, mega gyara, slowbro, suicune, ferro, mega scizor, alomomola...all at the same time. by running both of these moves, greninja has incredible coverage, and you reduce the team support needed by picking one or the other. the only thing you miss out on is rotom-w i guess? but even then:

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 94-110 (30.9 - 36.1%)

so rotom-w is taking 40% if you account rocks, unless it's a spdef rotom-w you aren't really that big of problems.



Landorus-T @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Def / 104 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Toxic

i wanted landorus-t to actually beat mega hera so badly. standard defensive landt is struggling to beat mega hera, as it just can't touch it, which is a shame as it walls pretty nicely. so i wanted to find an option you could run on landorus-t that would be useful against other pokemon. case in point: hp flying did great vs hera, but was crap in every other scenario. so i decided to use toxic, which could cripple mega heracross. it transforms landt into a nice mega hera answer and to boot gives it an option to cripple foes such as rotom-w, opp landt, landi, roost latias, mew, slowbro, and hippowdon effectively. pretty cool move that lets it beat mega hera and can catch some normal switch-ins off-guard. stone edge is necessary to break hera subs, and provides great coverage in general.
 
Talonflame
Trait: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
-Acrobatics
-Will-O-Wisp
-Taunt
-Roost

Sort of team specific, but this set is designed to both fulfill the usual defensive and stallbreaking duties of the standard stallbreaker Talonflame while also absorbing random Knock Offs better. This set has a couple of advantages along with one obvious disadvantage: lack of Leftovers. Now, there are two main reasons why I have found that the lack of Leftovers hasn't been as much of a problem as I thought it might be at first. The first reason is that I often find myself Leftovers-less regardless. I often switch Talonflame into opponents such as Landorus and Mega Scizor, in which case Talonflame often gets hit on the switch with Knock Off and loses its Leftovers anyway. The other reason is that when I run Leftovers, I obviously have to run Brave Bird, and Brave Bird recoil has the potential to completely negate Leftovers recovery and more depending on how much I use it and what it hits. For instance, KOing Mega Medicham will cost Talonflame 87 points of damage, which takes 4 turns worth of Leftovers recovery to fully recover from. Hitting a standard Chansey for minimum damage will cost Talonflame a little more health than 2 turns of Leftovers recovery would provide (48 HP lost vs 44 HP gained). Even a resisted hit against Thundurus is costing Talonflame a little more in recoil than Leftovers provides in recovery. So in essence, while loss of Leftovers is sometimes a problem, the frequency of which Talonflame gets its Leftovers Knocked Off and the effect of Brave Bird recoil on Talonflame's health in general have made the loss of the item a lesser issue than it may seem to be on the surface.

Now, there are a couple of neat advantages of this set. The first is, as I mentioned earlier, the greater resistance to Knock Off. Some of the Pokemon Talonflame switches into, such as Landorus and Mega Scizor, often carry Knock Off and are likely to hit Talonflame on the switch with it. The lack of an item ensures that Talonflame will take less damage from the move, which is always helpful. The lack of an item to rely on also makes me more comfortable switching Talonflame into other Knock Off users such as Gliscor and Mandibuzz. It even makes Talonflame a better answer to Bisharp as long as I can keep Stealth Rock off the field; I can switch in and survive Knock Off, burn it, and survive the second one before Roosting back to full health. Even if it Swords Dances, I can burn it and still take ~60% or less from the incoming Knock Off. The second advantage is the fact that Acrobatics is a much more spammable STAB move than Brave Bird is thanks to the lack of recoil. It's great for cleaning up weakened teams when you're low on health and can't afford to take time to Roost, and you don't have to worry about wearing yourself down if the recoil outdoes the Leftovers recovery.

Outside of that, this set plays just like the standard stallbreaker set. It's a pretty cool switch-in to Pokemon such as Charizard Y and Landorus, and the thing that makes Talonflame cool as opposed to Moltres is that it can Roost before the opponent goes for the KO in case it starts running low on health (just watch out for Landorus hitting you with Earth Power on the Roost). Like I said, lack of Leftovers is a pain from time to time, but it hasn't been that much of a problem from my experience. Overall, it's a pretty cool variation of a standard set that has worked pretty decently on balanced and defensive teams. I obviously recommend pairing it with a spinner, Reflect Type Starmie being a pretty cool partner. You could pair it with a Defogger, but I personally like spinning instead to maintain my own hazards, as well as to not risk giving Bisharp a Defiant boost (Talonflame can't come in on a +2 Bisharp, although it's never really my main switch-in to Bisharp anyway).
 

alexwolf

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Gengar @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hex
- Toxic
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt

Hex allows Gengar to 2HKO SpD Gliscor, a staple on stall teams and one of the few Pokemon on stall able to counter regular stallbreaking Gengar. Toxic cripples SpD Talonflame and SpD Mega Charizard X, letting Hex 2HKO them too even without SR up, leaving only SpD Heatran as a counter on defensive teams. Toxic is also a safer status move to spam when Mew is on the opposing team, as WoW has the danger of burning Gengar too because of Synchronize. This set is obviously less effective against offensive teams, but Hex works really good on Gengar because it's a very effective status spreader. Lack of Sub makes prediction a bit harder, but most of Gengar's switch-ins are very easy to cripple with the right status move as they come in.
 
I really like the HexGar set. Has anyone used this set for Excadrill?

Excadrill | Air Balloon / Life Orb | Sand Rush
Adamant | 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Soe
Earthquake | Iron Head | Rock Slide / Protect | Toxic

This set seems like a gimmick, but it works. One of the common problems with Excadrill is that it's walled by Landorus-T, Rotom-W, and random bulky Waters. With Toxic, you can hit like Rotom-W and where them through out the match. When you switch in on like Clefable for example, you force the switch to Landorus-T and you can Toxic it. With Air Balloon it's forced to take Iron Head + Toxic damage. If it's bulky, toxic reveals if it has leftovers or not so you can force it to U-turn if it is bulky or if it is Scarf, you know it has Superpower so you can switch and preserve Air Balloon. Excadrill can gradually where down Landorus-T through out the match because opposing sand teams are weak to there own archetype. Stealth Rock + Toxic + Iron Head makes Landorus-T a liability and you can sack Air Balloon to 2HKO your opponents bulky ground type. Hippowdon also think it is so bad coming in on Excadrill with no fear, Air Balloon Excadrill walls it and all it can do is phaze while taking Toxic + SR + EQ damage. The same method goes for Rotom-W except you need it a little more weakened then normal. Rock Slide is there if you don't have a BirdSPAM check and killing Thundurus-I is important. Otherwise Protect is an option because it deals with those threats even better. It pairs better with Life orb but you are more reliant on prediction. Why not use Swords Dance? Good question. Swords Dance itself means you are taking risky hits to set it up which is hard and you can be forced to switch p. easily because of the sand limit. Toxic is effective outside of that. Plus +1 Iron Head ain't com in close to KOing to Lando-T, Slowbro, Chesnaught, and Hippowdon while they all crush you back. Wearing them gradually over he match is much more effective and Swords Dance still can't touch Rotom-W or Skarmory (toxic still ain't touching it either so you don't lose much). Quagsire is also another notable target because it loses to EQ after SR and 2 rounds of Toxic damage. There is a con in losing Rapid Spin so if you don't need it, consider Toxic. It is no gimmick.

E: don't quote me on protect. It's as niche move as granbull on stall

E2: actually don't use protect, it's ass
 
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alexwolf

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Not my set (Bloo and gr8astard came up with it iirc), but it's worth sharing:



Victini @ Leftovers
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Power-Up Punch

Remember how Victini usually struggles to beat Heatran, Tyranitar, Slowbro, and Alomomola? Power-Up Punch allows Victini to beat all of them, with physically defensive Tyranitar taking a minimum of 69% damage from two PuP hits (big chance to get KOed after two SR rounds), and Heatran, Slowbro, and Alomomola getting 2HKOed by +1 Bolt Strike. And the best part is that you don't even have to predict, thanks to Substitute, which has multiple purposes on this set. First, it protects Victini from Pursuit, eg. the opponent wants to send in a death fodder and then trap -1 Victini with Tyranitar or Bisharp, but Sub foils this plan. Second, it helps against Sucker Punch Bisharp. Third, it protects Victini from status that some Pokemon it wants to beat carry, such as Thunder Wave / Toxic Slowbro, Toxic Heatran, and Toxic Alomomola, and if timed right could even give you a free turn as the opponent wastes a turn trying to status you. Forth, Sub protects Victini from Intimidate, a common way of checking Victini. For example, against a team with Scarf Landorus-T and Heatran, the opponent would want to first switch into Heatran to scout for the set, as V-Create does too much to Landorus-T. Worst case scenario Victini goes for Bolt Strike, which means that in the next turn the opponent can pivot to Landorus-T to lower Victini's attack, especially if he thinks that Victini is choiced. Sub prevents the opponent from weakening Victini with repeated switches between Intimidate users, making it even harder to play around. Finally, we all know how vulnerable to revenge killing Victini is after using V-Create, and Sub helps mitigate this.

This set can act as an offensive check to threatening Pokemon such as Mega Gardevoir (never 2HKOes, even with Modest and after SR), Mega Charizard Y (14% chance to 2HKO Victini with Modest Fire Blast), and Mega Medicham (always 2HKOes with Adamant HJK, but you can lure attacks such as Zen Headbutt and Ice Punch with other Pokemon, such as Lando-T), as a way to take advantage of ubiquitous utility Pokemon on many teams, such as SR Clefable and Ferrothorn, as a lure, because it's able to lure and weaken Pokemon such as Tyranitar, Heatran, and bulky Water-types, and as a solid wallbreaker. Victini's wallbreaking ability is further complimented by Quagsire's decline in usage, with many defensive teams preferring Slowbro over it, for the latter's ability to wall Pokemon such as Mega Medicham and Terrakion that Quagsire can't, both of which are big threats to stall. And outside of Quagsire and Mega Charizard X, this set is very difficult to straight up counter, hence the effective wallbreaker part.

PuP is also a great way to get certain KOes before getting KOed in the process. For example, against physically defensive Gliscor you can just use PuP twice, one as it comes in and one as it attacks, survive the EQ easily, and then OHKO with V-Create. This wouldn't have been possible with just spamming V-Create, because Gliscor would be faster after the first use and able to OHKO you.

The EVs outspeed Jolly Mega Heracross and give some nice bulk to check Zard Y, Medi, and Garde, while maxing out attack. You can move some more EVs to HP, from either Attack or Speed, depending on your team's needs, in order to do things such as always avoid the 2HKO from Zard Y's Modest Fire Blast and Jolly Medicham's HJK. You can even use Zen Headbutt over Sub if Zard X is a big issue for your team.

Good teammates for this set should be able to threaten Ground-types and Zard X, lure in the Pokemon that Victini can set up on (Ferrothorn, Clefable, Mega Scizor) and be able to capitalize on Victini's luring abilities. For example, Specs Keldeo is a great way to punish Ground-types and Zard X, while also attracting Ferrothorn after you have been locked to Hydro Pump. Latios and Latias provide anti hazard support, which is a must when using Victini, can destroy some Ground-types and Mega Zard X one on one, can switch into Keldeo looking to revenge kill Victini, enjoy Victini's ability to weaken Tyranitar and Heatran, and lure both Clefable and Ferrothorn, making for exceptional teammates.

tl;dr this is one of Victini's best sets and it should be used way more.
 
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Clone

Free Gliscor
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Ok so Mega Hera has very few checks as it is outside of like Gliscor and Doublade, so I decided to dedicate my first VR post to show off my (non) amazing innovation skills with a Lando T set that I've been using on balance teams for the past few weeks:

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 240 HP / 140 Def / 128 Spe
Lax Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 30 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Ok so the EVs, moveset, and nature all look strange. They are. Max HP / Def Lando is cool and all, but I've found that allocating a few EVs elsewhere is more optimal. I'll first start off with the moves. All are standard bar HP Flying, which is really the key to this set. I've always found that having rocks Lando puts a lot of pressure onto him as he's meant to pivot into physical attackers quite often, which means that he's easily worn down. Because of this, i opted to forgo stealth rock and replace it with HP Flying. As it is, Lando T switches into. Mega Hera quite easily, but he has no way of doing anything back. Jukains set with Toxic is nice and all, but it takes time for it to bring it into range for Rock Slide / Srone Edge to kill, making it a decent option but not the best. HP flying uninvested is enough to OHKO Hera after rocks, which is a likely situation if its mid game. It's not common at all and its able to take out one of the biggest threats in the game atm.

Now onto the EVs. The Speed EVs allow me to outspeed Adamant Heracross by 1 point, which can be crept if needed. The Defense EVs hit a jump point while simultaneously allowing me to sponge up quite a few hits. Pinsirs Frustration is only a 3HKO, Heracrosses Rock Blast is a 4HKO, LO Excadrill's Iron Head is a 4HKO. They don't eat up as many hits as the standard EVs do, but it allows Lando to switch into all of the aforementioned threats and win in a one v one scenario (Pinsir does need just a little bit of prior damage to be OHKOed by Rock Slide if opted for over Stone Edge though). I will mention that this set performs the best on balance and semi stall teams the best, as he is prone to getting worn down and common members of these teams such as Clefable, Chansey, or Alomomomomomola give him much appreciated Wish support.
 

Jukain

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i don't think hp flying is a good option at all. either you have to give up stone edge or rocks, both of which are very undesirable. also, i now fully think fast acroscor > toxic/hp flying landt anyways. recovery, less drastic 4mss, what's not to like.
 

alexwolf

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Giving up rocks is not a big deal if you use Lando-T on balanced teams, which will be using more pivots and defensive Pokemon in general. Ferrothorn and Clefable are both good partners to Lando-T, and they are both better SR setters than Lando-T. HP Flying is also great to counter Breloom after sleep clause has been activated.

As for Gliscor, yeah it's usually a better option than Landorus-T for defensive roles, but Landorus-T's greater power is a very significant advantage, as is it's better physical bulk, with Intimidate factored in.
 

Clone

Free Gliscor
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Havent seen this posted on this thread (at least in Alex's list unless Im blind), but I have seen it on the ladder a bit and used it myself.


Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Flail
- Quick Attack
- Swords Dance / Frustration

This set is fun. Like really fun. Pinsir forces so many switches its not even funny, which lets him get a sub up for free. Why Sub? Because most of Pinsirs checks are things faster than him that are able to take a Quick Attack, or Talonflame. This eases prediction and allows Pinsir to hit them with the much stronger Return if chosen as your fourth slot. The other use of sub is to slowly reach a low amount of HP to be able to unleash the crux of this set: Flail. Flail is interesting on Pinsir in that it takes its usually very crippling Stealth Rock Weakness and turns it into a blessing in disguise. Losing half your HP after switching in allows you to Sub up on the incoming attack or switch, and proceed to Sub again to reach that magical HP number. If used right, youll be behind a sub with a 200 BP move at your disposal backed by STAB and Aerielate, which is basically a 400 BP move. Literally nothing outside of Skarm can take this:

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 171-202 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 210-247 (54.6 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Flail (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 222-262 (55 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 327-385 (82.9 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Flail (200 BP) vs. 244 HP / 28+ Def Gliscor: 355-418 (100.8 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And if Return is foregone for SD, its GG for everything.

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Flail (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 445-524 (110.4 - 130%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 274-323 (82 - 96.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Of course, this set has to rely on prediction moreso than other sets, but it does pretty much 6-0 stall when paired with Mag to remove Skarm. Its best used when brought in on something it can force out, or things like Slowbro or Mew who will try and stay in to status you. It also cockblocks the Talonflame switch in, allowing you to get a hit off before switching out. Monoflying coverage is better in practice than on paper, but things to handle steels and electrics are always appreciated. Mag is probably his favorite teammate by far.

Edit: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-165901675

Unexpected and shreks things =]

Edit 2: Removed Close Combat because after testing I came to find out that its shit. SD is the best option because +2 Flail kills everything.
 
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